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jgviv
21-08-16, 12:46
Good Morning!
I am a Spaniard and i would like to share with you my Autosomal test through Eurogenes k13, Eu Test, Dodecad V3 and HarappaWorld. As i'm an amateur and i don't understand to much about autosomal genetics, i would love if someone could tell me if, as a Spaniard, i have some of midlle eastearn and Near East in my genetics. And also what does East Mediterranean stands for at Eurogenes.
Thanks for your help. :)

Eurogenes K13

Admix Results (sorted):



#
Population
Percent


1
North_Atlantic
34.69


2
West_Med
28.37


3
East_Med
16.59


4
Baltic
11.28


5
West_Asian
2.97


6
Red_Sea
2.38


7
Northeast_African
1.41


8
Oceanian
0.86


9
Sub-Saharan
0.79


10
East_Asian
0.64




Mixed Mode Population Sharing:



#

Primary Population (source)
Secondary Population (source)
Distance


1

74%
Southwest_French
+
26%
Algerian_Jewish
@
2


2

73.8%
Southwest_French
+
26.2%
Italian_Jewish
@
2.21


3

77.8%
Spanish_Cantabria
+
22.2%
Algerian_Jewish
@
2.29


4

75.9%
Spanish_Cantabria
+
24.1%
Ashkenazi
@
2.39


5

76.7%
Southwest_French
+
23.3%
Tunisian_Jewish
@
2.42


6

76.8%
Southwest_French
+
23.2%
Libyan_Jewish
@
2.42


7

64.7%
Southwest_French
+
35.3%
West_Sicilian
@
2.49


8

69.2%
Spanish_Cantabria
+
30.8%
West_Sicilian
@
2.49


9

77.7%
Spanish_Cantabria
+
22.3%
Italian_Jewish
@
2.57


10

59%
Spanish_Cantabria
+
41%
Tuscan
@
2.69


11

85.4%
Portuguese
+
14.6%
Sardinian
@
2.72


12

74.1%
Spanish_Cantabria
+
25.9%
East_Sicilian
@
2.76


13

60.5%
North_Italian
+
39.5%
Spanish_Cantabria
@
2.8


14

72.2%
Southwest_French
+
27.8%
Ashkenazi
@
2.8


15

74.4%
Southwest_French
+
25.6%
Sephardic_Jewish
@
2.82


16

75.1%
Spanish_Cantabria
+
24.9%
South_Italian
@
2.88


17

53.3%
Spanish_Andalucia
+
46.7%
North_Italian
@
2.91


18

54%
Southwest_French
+
46%
Tuscan
@
2.91


19

82.7%
Spanish_Cantabria
+
17.3%
Cyprian
@
2.92


20

55.2%
North_Italian
+
44.8%
Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
@
2.94



Eu test



Population
Percent



1
ATLANTIC
26.78


2
WEST_MED
22.64


3
EAST_MED
17.12


4
NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO
13.52


5
SOUTH_BALTIC
7.49


6
EAST_EURO
5.39


7
MIDDLE_EASTERN
5.22


8
WEST_AFRICAN
1.06


9
EAST_AFRICAN
0.78




Mixed Mode Population Sharing:




#

Primary Population (source)
Secondary Population (source)
Distance


1

90.9%
ES
+
9.1%
Druze
@
4.79


2

85.6%
ES
+
14.4%
GR
@
5.14


3

91.5%
ES
+
8.5%
Samaritan
@
5.17


4

85%
ES
+
15%
South_Italian_&_Sicilian
@
5.34


5

86.3%
ES
+
13.7%
AJ
@
5.49


6

92.9%
ES
+
7.1%
Mandean
@
5.56


7

92.8%
ES
+
7.2%
Assyrian
@
5.59


8

92.6%
ES
+
7.4%
IQ
@
5.6


9

67.1%
ES
+
32.9%
North_Italian
@
5.62


10

79.4%
ES
+
20.6%
Tuscan
@
5.79


11

93.5%
ES
+
6.5%
Kurdish
@
5.79


12

93.5%
ES
+
6.5%
Armenian
@
5.81


13

86.1%
ES
+
13.9%
RO
@
5.84


14

93.8%
ES
+
6.2%
IR
@
5.86


15

92.9%
ES
+
7.1%
TR
@
5.87


16

72.7%
North_Italian
+
27.3%
French_Basque
@
6.04


17

56.4%
French_Basque
+
43.6%
AJ
@
6.08


18

96.1%
ES
+
3.9%
Bedouin
@
6.09


19

90.2%
ES
+
9.8%
Serbian
@
6.21


20

94.6%
ES
+
5.4%
Algerian
@
6.23




Dodecad V3

Admix Results (sorted):




#
Population
Percent


1
Mediterranean
38.4


2
West_European
34.46


3
West_Asian
9.55


4
East_European
7.24


5
Northwest_African
4.61


6
Southwest_Asian
4.02


7
East_African
0.93


8
Palaeo_African
0.49


9
Neo_African
0.3



Mixed Mode Population Sharing:




#

Primary Population (source)
Secondary Population (source)
Distance


1

66.7%
Portuguese (Dodecad)
+
33.3%
Romanians_14 (Behar)
@
3.59


2

50.5%
Tuscan (Xing)
+
49.5%
Portuguese (Dodecad)
@
4.34


3

69.8%
Portuguese (Dodecad)
+
30.2%
Balkans (Dodecad)
@
4.53


4

51.9%
Tuscan (Henn)
+
48.1%
Portuguese (Dodecad)
@
4.58


5

50.1%
TSI (HapMap)
+
49.9%
Portuguese (Dodecad)
@
4.86


6

79.4%
Portuguese (Dodecad)
+
20.6%
Stalskoe (Xing)
@
4.95


7

53.2%
Sardinian (HGDP)
+
46.8%
Slovenian (Xing)
@
4.96


8

59.7%
French (Dodecad)
+
40.3%
Sicilian (Dodecad)
@
4.96


9

68%
Portuguese (Dodecad)
+
32%
Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar)
@
5.03


10

82.2%
Portuguese (Dodecad)
+
17.8%
Urkarah (Xing)
@
5.1


11

80.8%
Portuguese (Dodecad)
+
19.2%
Turkish (Dodecad)
@
5.33


12

63.8%
French (Dodecad)
+
36.2%
Sephardic_Jews (Behar)
@
5.33


13

82.6%
Portuguese (Dodecad)
+
17.4%
Kurd (Dodecad)
@
5.36


14

84.5%
Portuguese (Dodecad)
+
15.5%
Iranian (Dodecad)
@
5.37


15

82.6%
Portuguese (Dodecad)
+
17.4%
Kurd (Xing)
@
5.37


16

82.6%
Portuguese (Dodecad)
+
17.4%
Turks (Behar)
@
5.38


17

88.9%
N_Italian (Dodecad)
+
11.1%
Finnish (Dodecad)
@
5.42


18

93%
N_Italian (Dodecad)
+
7%
Mozabite (HGDP)
@
5.43


19

92.9%
N_Italian (Dodecad)
+
7.1%
Mozabite (Henn)
@
5.44


20

87.5%
N_Italian (Dodecad)
+
12.5%
FIN (1000Genomes)
@
5.45




HarappaWorld

Admix Results (sorted):




#
Population
Percent


1
Mediterranean
39.3


2
NE-Euro
30.69


3
Caucasian
14.62


4
SW-Asian
7.86


5
Baloch
4.76


6
E-African
1.17


7
W-African
0.69


8
Papuan
0.55


9
San
0.21


10
American
0.16




Mixed Mode Population Sharing:





#

Primary Population (source)
Secondary Population (source)
Distance


1

78.8%
spaniard (1000genomes)
+
21.2%
ashkenazi (harappa)
@
2.75


2

91%
spaniard (behar)
+
9%
yemen-jew (behar)
@
2.95


3

89%
spaniard (behar)
+
11%
palestinian (hgdp)
@
3.04


4

89.8%
spaniard (behar)
+
10.2%
samaritian (behar)
@
3.08


5

75.4%
spaniard (1000genomes)
+
24.6%
bulgarian (yunusbayev)
@
3.12


6

88.9%
spaniard (behar)
+
11.1%
jordanian (behar)
@
3.19


7

90.5%
spaniard (behar)
+
9.5%
druze (hgdp)
@
3.19


8

89%
spaniard (behar)
+
11%
egyptian (behar)
@
3.21


9

80.6%
spaniard (1000genomes)
+
19.4%
ashkenazy-jew (behar)
@
3.25


10

89%
spaniard (behar)
+
11%
syrian (behar)
@
3.27


11

88.6%
spaniard (behar)
+
11.4%
lebanese (behar)
@
3.33


12

89.9%
spaniard (behar)
+
10.1%
yemenese (behar)
@
3.34


13

70.7%
spaniard (1000genomes)
+
29.3%
tuscan (1000genomes)
@
3.35


14

74.3%
spaniard (1000genomes)
+
25.7%
romanian-a (behar)
@
3.38


15

89.7%
spaniard (1000genomes)
+
10.3%
druze (hgdp)
@
3.39


16

88.6%
spaniard (behar)
+
11.4%
egypt (henn2012)
@
3.41


17

89.9%
spaniard (behar)
+
10.1%
lebanese-christian (haber)
@
3.42


18

89.4%
spaniard (behar)
+
10.6%
lebanese-muslim (haber)
@
3.42


19

51.4%
spaniard (1000genomes)
+
48.6%
italian (hgdp)
@
3.42


20

90%
spaniard (behar)
+
10%
lebanese-druze (haber)
@
3.48

jgviv
23-08-16, 11:56
Any answer┬┐┬┐ :(

Hauteville
24-08-16, 20:30
With this haplogroup is possible in recent (middle ages) times.

Angela
24-08-16, 21:37
You give the mixed mode but not the first result which tells you your closest population. What was it for each calculator?

jgviv
25-08-16, 02:49
You give the mixed mode but not the first result which tells you your closest population. What was it for each calculator?
In all 4 Spanish from south central and western spain, soutwest french, northern italian, and in the bottom for dodecad askenazi also slovenian and hungarian

Angela
25-08-16, 17:03
In all 4 Spanish from south central and western spain, soutwest french, northern italian, and in the bottom for dodecad askenazi also slovenian and hungarian

Well, if all the calculators "placed" you as Spanish, and the fst distances weren't too great, then obviously you can't be that different from other Spanish people.

As for the mixed mode data, I wouldn't take it too seriously.

The fact that it says you're:
78.8% Spaniard (1000 genomes) + 21% ashkenazi, doesn't mean that you have a recent Ashkenazi grandmother, for example. It just means that after "taking out" what you share with the Spanish samples from 1000 genomes, what remains resembles that...The alleles may have been in Spain for ever, and may be a combination of Levantine, regular southern European, some central/Eastern European. People from your area may just be slightly more east Mediterranean than the samples used so far in academic samples.

Your results do illustrate how unrepresentative some Spanish samples may be in terms of total Spanish variation.

Take a look at these two back to back results:

78.8% Spaniard (1000 genomes) + 21% ashkenazi @2;75
89% Spaniard (Behar) + 11% Palestinian @ 3.04

It takes more Levantine admixture to "capture" you if the 1000 genomes sample is used than if the Behar sample is used, so that says to me that the Behar samples, where ever they were drawn, already include some of the East Med/Levantine alleles, more than the 1000 genomes samples do...

Does anyone know where the 1000 genomes Spanish samples were taken? Are they just using the half Catalan sample?

davef
25-08-16, 17:51
Yeah, she (angela) showed me a pca map where the spanish samples placed a teeny bit north of cypriots, south italians and Ashkenazim and likely are even more related to the east med region than you are so I wouldn't count on finding a "secret" sicilian or Levantine in your history.

jgviv
25-08-16, 18:07
Well, if all the calculators "placed" you as Spanish, and the fst distances weren't too great, then obviously you can't be that different from other Spanish people.

As for the mixed mode data, I wouldn't take it too seriously.

The fact that it says you're:
78.8% Spaniard (1000 genomes) + 21% ashkenazi, doesn't mean that you have a recent Ashkenazi grandmother, for example. It just means that after "taking out" what you share with the Spanish samples from 1000 genomes, what remains resembles that...The alleles may have been in Spain for ever, and may be a combination of Levantine, regular southern European, some central/Eastern European. People from your area may just be slightly more east Mediterranean than the samples used so far in academic samples.

Your results do illustrate how unrepresentative some Spanish samples may be in terms of total Spanish variation.

Take a look at these two back to back results:

78.8% Spaniard (1000 genomes) + 21% ashkenazi @2;75
89% Spaniard (Behar) + 11% Palestinian @ 3.04

It takes more Levantine admixture to "capture" you if the 1000 genomes sample is used than if the Behar sample is used, so that says to me that the Behar samples, where ever they were drawn, already include some of the East Med/Levantine alleles, more than the 1000 genomes samples do...

Does anyone know where the 1000 genomes Spanish samples were taken? Are they just using the half Catalan sample?

Thank you very much for your help Angela that clarifies a lot, it,s true spanish samples are very unrepresentative. So finally how should i interpretate the East Med percentage and the levantine reference? Ancient East Mediterranean migrations? Or it has nothing to do with it? Thanks :)

davef
25-08-16, 18:15
@Angela:"It just means that after "taking out" what you share with the Spanish samples from 1000 genomes, what remains resembles that..."

Wait that's how it works? What do you mean by taking out? Does the oracle compare the users alleles with the samples in order to derive a result of x percent a y percent b? Or does it simply go by what the user scored in the components and compares the users scores with those of the samples? Like say if someone scores x percent component a and y percent component b and a sample scores the exact same for both of those components, is it going to assume that the user is of the same nationality as the sample?

jgviv
25-08-16, 18:36
Yeah, she (angela) showed me a pca map where the spanish samples placed a teeny bit north of cypriots, south italians and Ashkenazim and likely are even more related to the east med region than you are so I wouldn't count on finding a "secret" sicilian or Levantine in your history.

Nice, yes indeed all my family as far as i know are all spaniards, however as im an amateur and beginner in this field i just wanted to know what reprents the east Med references in my results, even been lower than other southern europeans

Angela
25-08-16, 18:49
Thank you very much for your help Angela that clarifies a lot, it,s true spanish samples are very unrepresentative. So finally how should i interpretate the East Med percentage and the levantine reference? Ancient East Mediterranean migrations? Or it has nothing to do with it? Thanks :)

It's very difficult to say. I usually try to explain it to people using cooking references, since I like to cook a lot. Let's say that you're making a big sheet cake, and you add in three quarters of a cup of brown sugar, then half a cup of white sugar, then a quarter cup of honey.

The "sugar" was added at different times and in slightly different forms, but it's all sugar, right?

So, you have farmers from Turkey, who aren't all that different from the farmers in the Levant, coming into Europe in huge numbers in the Neolithic, in such huge numbers that they might account for 50% and more of the ancestry of a lot of southern Europeans, and 35-40% of that of northern and central Europeans. Then, if we're going to talk about Spain, we have the Carthaginians, who we might speculate would have had Levantine-Canaanite ancestry as well as North African ancestry, but this was a much smaller migration. Then imagine that you have "Moors", which is just to say a force composed of recently converted North African Berbers plus some actual Arabians and Levantines, who occupy Spain for from 200-700 years depending on the area. These people are going to carry some of that same ancestry, although mixed now with other things. Now, many of their descendants were expelled, as you don't need me to tell you, but all of them, and all of the people who were of mixed ancestry? It's starting to look, for example, although more work needs to be done, that about 70% of the mtDna "L" in Spain came during the Muslim era or later with trans-Atlantic slavery. Then there's all the E-M81, much of which might have come then, without even mentioning any J1 of a specifically Arabian type. Now, is this latter influx a huge percentage of the ancestry? I don't think so, but it would have added a dollop more of this east Med "like" ancestry.

Now, the "Spaniard" that shows up at levels of 78.8 and 89%, depending on which samples were used, already includes all of that, as well as "Celtic", which itself includes some farmer ancestry along with other things, a little Germanic (likewise), but mixed with proportionally more EHG, WHG, and CHG/Iranian Chal, some alleles from the WHG who were in Spain before the arrival of the Anatolian farmers, maybe a little "Greek", which is itself a mixture, etc.. All the algorithm is telling you is that you have a bit more of that particular "East Med" strain than the samples which have been gathered so far.

Uniparental markers, like mtDna and yDna, are much more easy to track to a specific migration, but the downside is that they only represent two out of your many, many ancestors. Autosomal dna really captures all of you, but it recombines every time there's a new generation, with some alleles being gained and others lost, so you can't pluck it out of the "stew", to use another cooking analogy, and date and track it to a particular historical or pre-historical group of people, or at least it's more difficult to pluck it out, although things may improve in the future.

I'm aware that it's frustrating. I'd really like to know how much of me is really early European farmer, "Etruscan", how much is Roman settler, or "Celtic-Gallic" migrant of the first millennium BC, and if the Lombard derived surname actually came with any genes.

The science just isn't there yet, and i don't know if it ever will be...

It does place me securely exactly where my genealogy says it should, as it does for you, so that's at least something. There are a lot of people, of much more admixed ancestry, who don't even know that.

@davef,

It's always dangerous to use analogies when you're around, as you take them too literally. The point is that he needs more "east Med" than is present in the sampled Spaniards used to totally "capture" his variation.

Hauteville
25-08-16, 19:09
Yeah, she (angela) showed me a pca map where the spanish samples placed a teeny bit north of cypriots, south italians and Ashkenazim and likely are even more related to the east med region than you are so I wouldn't count on finding a "secret" sicilian or Levantine in your history.
Yeah because Sicilians and Syrians are genetically identical no Sikeliot?

jgviv
25-08-16, 19:26
Wow thanks Angela it is the best answer i ever had about the subject. It is true is a difficult science but it seems very interesting, thanks for helping me out with my results :)

Hauteville
25-08-16, 19:29
Do you have tested yourself with 23andme no?do you have made WeGene and DNA Land?

davef
25-08-16, 19:29
Yeah because Sicilians and Syrians are genetically identical no Sikeliot?

Let's get along and not be enemies. I'm not Sikeliot and in that map Syrians are way south of south italians and I'm sure if Sicilians are included there as well they would be at least as north as those southern italians. I have yet to see a pca where Sicilians plot anywhere near Syrians, Lebanese, Saudis, Palestinians, etc and i don't expect to see one in the future. I will be shocked if I ever see one, it would be like having a UFO crash land in my yard.

Yes I did point out the roughly 50 percent ashkenazi/Levantine score for one south italian because I was trying to make a point about how dna.land needs a lot of tweaking.

jgviv
25-08-16, 21:00
yes, it was with 23andme. I did DNA land and gave me this result:

Southwestern European 76%
Balkan 8%
Ashkenazi 4.1%
Arab/Egyptian 6%
Ambiguous 1.1%
North African 3.8%

I didnt knew WeGene ill try it, thanks :)

jgviv
25-08-16, 21:00
Do you have tested yourself with 23andme no?do you have made WeGene and DNA Land?
yes, it was with 23andme. I did DNA land and gave me this result:

Southwestern European 76%
Balkan 8%
Ashkenazi 4.1%
Arab/Egyptian 6%
Ambiguous 1.1%
North African 3.8%

I didnt knew WeGene ill try it, thanks :)

Angela
01-09-16, 01:05
Hi jgviv,

I hope you're still on the Board. Did you happen to run your genome through the Gedrosia Ancient Eurasia K6?

It's not useful for recent admixture, but it's interesting.

jgviv
06-09-16, 17:30
Hi jgviv,

I hope you're still on the Board. Did you happen to run your genome through the Gedrosia Ancient Eurasia K6?

It's not useful for recent admixture, but it's interesting.
Yes Angela, sorry i was on vacation here i post my gedrosia ancient eurasia k6 79787979