View Full Version : Pluviometers as Y-DNA predictors

02-09-16, 20:29
Sorry for this TheSun-like tittle... but looking at those maps it's possible to guess that it's somewhat true...

annual rainfall in UK:


its land use:


of course crops (barley, wheat) need rainfall (for wheat the minimum is around 400 mm), but also too much is not good (from +900 mm), and by that the British Isles can be divided between as pro-herding and pro-farming lands.

ethnic map, IX century:


almost a full match.

For Y-DNA the "Celtic" R1b-L21 is the major clade in the Celtic Nations, being its "English" counterpart R1b-U106 (S21):


We know that L21 came to the isles with Bell Beakers, but it's suggested that U106 might be the late footprint of the Germanic invaders. But, why only U106 is so attached to farming lands where the other possible Germanic haplos are not keeping a "logical" distribution? It's possible that U106 also entered with Bell Beakers then? (in this case each clade would prefer those lands more suitable for their traditional herding or farming economies, or each clade was developed inside economical communities).

I think that similar maps with rainfall / crops / peoples / Y-DNA could be done with Iraq Kurds or Pakistan's Balochis.

02-09-16, 20:56
The title of the thread sounded a bit weird, but it does work in Britain's case. The so-called Celtic fringe in the rocky and rainy western countries do tend to have very high Celtic ancestry and therefore also R1b-L21. The flat farmlands in the east, which also tend to be much drier and sunnier (yes, I am talking about England), have the highest Germanic ancestry.

03-09-16, 09:34
Basicaly I agree, but now I'm doubting about that all U106 was Germanic.

I have thought that the invaders were only interested in farming lands, maybe they were after all farmers so they were not so interested in grasslands... or maybe the new elite only was good to tax farmers (knowing the acres and the rainfalls it's possible to calculate a year tax for a given farmer, but for herders it's very difficult to know how much cattle they have if they wish to conceal it).

Even so the U106 is so attached to farming land that to check if my souspicion about a BB origin could be debuked checking Y-DNA in Denmark, Friesland and Lower Saxony, but other than for Denmark (17% U106 and 34% I1) I'm not able to find out such info.

24-09-16, 08:18
Again two matches between rainfall and subclades:


looking at Gascony (SW) and Britanny (NW) it's possible to check high levels of Atlantic precipitation; the first region is linked to "Iberian" DF27


Gascony had a pre-Indoeuropean language known as Aquitanian linked to actual Basque, also after the Roman Empire fall the Vascones invaded the area.

the second region is linked to "Celtic" L21, that as commented previously is high in the British Isles... where it rains most and where it is spoken Celtic languages. And yes, there were britons migrating there after the Saxon invasion of England.


it's just a coincidence?

A pitty that the French government is against science, otherwise we could have more DNA from the Limousin and Auvergne regions (center) and Alpine region as to check if there are also Y-DNA differences related to "pluviometry"...