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Gurka atla
06-10-16, 01:10
Please tell me what you think.



Are Turkmens closer to Turkey/Azerbaijan or other Central Asian Turks?


Why I think they are closer to Azeris, Turks

- Linguistically, Turkmen belongs to the Oghuz -Turkic group unlike other who belong to the Kipchak-Turkic group.
- Of all Central Asian Turks, Turkmen is the most Caucasoid DNA and physically

My reason for Turkmen being closer to Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Uzbeks

- They are in Central Asia
- Many of them look strongly Mongoloid aswell



But at this moment I can't decide still.


Turkmen DNA 18 - 58% Mongoloid

http://i46.tinypic.com/2nsqvbt.png


Azeris 6 - 29% Mongoloid

http://i49.tinypic.com/4r9s42.png

Turks 5 - 25% Mongoloid

http://i57.tinypic.com/25im6uu.jpg

LeBrok
06-10-16, 03:49
I doubt that you can decide this from such simplistic two admixtures.
Try finding list of modern DNA of Turks and Central Asians, run through gedmatch in HarappaWorld and compare to ancient samples from Anatolia and the region.
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/32877-HarappaWorld-Gedmatch-post-and-compare-your-admixtures-to-ancient-and-contemporary
Go through this thread, lots of data already there. Something interesting should show up.

Gurka atla
06-10-16, 18:16
I doubt that you can decide this from such simplistic two admixtures.
Try finding list of modern DNA of Turks and Central Asians, run through gedmatch in HarappaWorld and compare to ancient samples from Anatolia and the region.
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/32877-HarappaWorld-Gedmatch-post-and-compare-your-admixtures-to-ancient-and-contemporary
Go through this thread, lots of data already there. Something interesting should show up.


I simply just want to know if they are closer to Azeris/Turks. As you can see from this chart Turkmen is one step behind the line to Uzbek but is also in the same section as Turkish.



http://karakalpak.com/images/genetic00.jpg

LeBrok
06-10-16, 18:49
PCA distances are telling much better. Though we need more resolution and more populations in this chart. Will be more interesting.

Gurka atla
06-10-16, 19:53
PCA distances are telling much better. Though we need more resolution and more populations in this chart. Will be more interesting.


So what's your opinion. Are they closer to Uzbeks of Central Asia or Azeris ?

Turkmen, Azeris, Turkish are all Oghuz speakers.


http://cdn.trend.az/media/pictures/2014/05/13/azerbaijan_turkmenistan_turkey_flags_120514.jpg


Although geographically Turkmen is in Central Asia it's also the closest to Azerbaijan, Turkey and mind you the regions of North Iran is called Azerbaijan Iran is because it's inhabited by mostly by Turkic people even today

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-KMCFdY3GV_4/UojKDHccMdI/AAAAAAAAAn8/OnmaX0o7ie0/s1600/Turkic-map.jpg

Boreas
06-10-16, 21:22
So what's your opinion. Are they closer to Uzbeks of Central Asia or Azeris ?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-KMCFdY3GV_4/UojKDHccMdI/AAAAAAAAAn8/OnmaX0o7ie0/s1600/Turkic-map.jpg

without doubt, no Kazakh, Kyrgyz

but some searches says Uzbek can be

Gurka atla
09-10-16, 01:54
without doubt, no Kazakh, Kyrgyz

but some searches says Uzbek can be


Uzbeks is most closest to Uyghur genetically also they are linguistically, culturally similar to eachother.

Do Turkmen and Uzbek look similar


http://i48.tinypic.com/2b9ugn.jpg

Boreas
09-10-16, 13:43
Uzbeks is most closest to Uyghur genetically also they are linguistically, culturally similar to eachother.

Do Turkmen and Uzbek look similar


You are right about Uyghur and Uzbeks.

I am making comparision between Uzbeks - Turkmen - Turk/Azeri and In some research, Turkmens are more close to Uzbek then Turks.

Comparison with looking won't give the truth. Because, in European perspective, if you are slant eyes, you are mongolid. However even a little Asian admixture can causes slant eyes.


8081

Maybe Turkmens are really close with Turk/Azeris but this simlarity is not as strong as Uzbek-Uyhgur or Kazakh-Kyrgyz similarites

8082

Majority is not close (Blue-Green Circles), however there are close mix groups - red circle.

Gurka atla
11-10-16, 07:46
You are right about Uyghur and Uzbeks.

I am making comparision between Uzbeks - Turkmen - Turk/Azeri and In some research, Turkmens are more close to Uzbek then Turks.

Comparison with looking won't give the truth. Because, in European perspective, if you are slant eyes, you are mongolid. However even a little Asian admixture can causes slant eyes.


8081

Maybe Turkmens are really close with Turk/Azeris but this simlarity is not as strong as Uzbek-Uyhgur or Kazakh-Kyrgyz similarites

8082

Majority is not close (Blue-Green Circles), however there are close mix groups - red circle.



In my opinion Turkmeninstan with areas closer to Uzbekistanare closer to Central Asian Turks while Turkmenistan areas closer to Iran are closer to Azeris.

I've read that the area of what is now southern Turkmenistan used to be iran. the Turkmen in the 16th- 17th century expanded south and incorporated a portion of it's land to Turkmenistan however the same is true for Kazakhstan where large parts from the south used to be Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan. Central Asian khantes were fighting one another.

https://content.parcelsolutions.net/42c5534b-0f47-4342-80f0-8f21203f0669/destination/country/turkmenistan.png

Boreas
11-10-16, 13:09
In my opinion Turkmeninstan with areas closer to Uzbekistanare closer to Central Asian Turks while Turkmenistan areas closer to Iran are closer to Azeris.


If I need to choose, I will put Turkmens in Azeri/Turk category. But as I said the connection is not too much strong.

In some research, Turkmens are in Europe group
http://lmv.hu/files/A-Y-chromosome-comparison.pdf

Gurka atla
12-10-16, 02:11
If I need to choose, I will put Turkmens in Azeri/Turk category. But as I said the connection is not too much strong.

In some research, Turkmens are in Europe group
http://lmv.hu/files/A-Y-chromosome-comparison.pdf


Why do Turkmens keep getting different result here and there. It seems to be there is no true accurate DNA study for Turkmen.

Some are 15-20% Mongoloid some are 25-33% Mongoloid and some are 35-58%

In this study the Turkmen seems even slightly closer to Uzbek than Uyghurs but in most studies Uyghurs and Uzbeks are almost 90% similar.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Oa3bBts6e3M/Ur6VH_81tpI/AAAAAAAAAUI/JGoPs1UmWyA/s1600/Lazaridis2014_EDF3_K6.png%3Cfont%20color=#000000><span style=font-family: verdana>

Boreas
12-10-16, 12:39
Why do Turkmens keep getting different result here and there. It seems to be there is no true accurate DNA study for Turkmen.

Some are 15-20% Mongoloid some are 25-33% Mongoloid and some are 35-58%

In this study the Turkmen seems even slightly closer to Uzbek than Uyghurs but in most studies Uyghurs and Uzbeks are almost 90% similar.


http://oi49.tinypic.com/33nwas0.jpg

They are mixed not like the Europe nations. This research says they are more Persian and averange Iranian.:confused2: I guess that's why my some researches says they are close to indo-europeans

Gurka atla
12-10-16, 22:30
http://oi49.tinypic.com/33nwas0.jpg

They are mixed not like the Europe nations. This research says they are more Persian and averange Iranian.:confused2: I guess that's why my some researches says they are close to indo-europeans


This is why I don't like these spreadsheet results because they always show the average number but never the total. The problem with these spreadsheets is if they have 50 samples on individuals. 5 out of 50 of the samples happen to be 35% Mongoloid and and 4 samples with 50% Mongoloid, 3 samples 70% mongoloid, 2 samples 80% Mongoloid, 3 samples 25% Mongoloid , 2 samples 40% Mongoloid.

The result that matters is the " highest no. of sample = the average number " . So even if a ethnic group DNA range from 25% Mongoloid to 80% Mongoloid. In the end they will use 35% Mongoloid to represent the ethnic group. So the number they put on spreadsheet may represent from only 10% or 30% of the population and this is one of the biggest flaws with spreadsheet data.

cylnlts
13-02-17, 15:32
HarappaWorld 4-Ancestors OracleThis program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
Questions about results should be sent to him at: [email protected]
Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

23 April 2013 - Oracle reference population percentages revised.

Admix Results (sorted):



#
Population
Percent


1
Caucasian
39.44


2
Baloch
14.37


3
Mediterranean
13.89


4
SW-Asian
11.74


5
NE-Euro
10.46


6
NE-Asian
2.68


7
S-Indian
2.20


8
Beringian
1.78


9
Siberian
1.37




Finished reading population data. 377 populations found.
16 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 turk-kayseri @ 7.651587
2 turk-istanbul @ 7.653186
3 turk-aydin @ 7.767722
4 turkish @ 8.824174
5 turk @ 9.285530
6 armenian @ 11.905169
7 azeri @ 12.057047
8 uzbekistan-jew @ 14.820162
9 kurd @ 15.110064
10 lebanese @ 15.264257
11 lebanese-muslim @ 15.303683
12 cypriot @ 15.349828
13 ashkenazy-jew @ 15.399670
14 iraqi-arab @ 15.537961
15 north-ossetian @ 16.303885
16 sephardic-jew @ 16.317814
17 iranian @ 16.476582
18 palestinian @ 16.639181
19 syrian @ 16.753130
20 kurd @ 16.832850

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% ashkenazy-jew +50% azeri @ 3.283274


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% cypriot +25% tajik +25% turk-aydin @ 2.098772


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 ashkenazi + georgian + morocco-jew + turkmen @ 1.670837
2 ashkenazy-jew + georgian + morocco-jew + turkmen @ 1.803299
3 druze + turkish + turkmen + tuscan @ 1.870414
4 druze + turkish + turkmen + tuscan @ 1.875345
5 armenian + lebanese-muslim + turkmen + tuscan @ 1.920042
6 armenian + lebanese-muslim + turkmen + tuscan @ 1.920232
7 ashkenazi + cypriot + turkish + turkmen @ 1.932068
8 armenian + lebanese + turkmen + tuscan @ 1.939520
9 druze + turkish + turkmen + tuscan @ 1.948603
10 armenian + italian + lebanese-druze + turkmen @ 1.962133
11 armenian + lebanese-muslim + turkmen + tuscan @ 1.963442
12 armenian + lebanese + turkmen + tuscan @ 1.965451
13 armenian + syrian + turkmen + tuscan @ 1.970183
14 armenian + lebanese-muslim + turkmen + tuscan @ 1.987924
15 ashkenazi + azeri + cypriot + turkmen @ 1.991716
16 armenian + lebanese-muslim + turkmen + tuscan @ 2.006990
17 armenian + syrian + turkmen + tuscan @ 2.015513
18 armenian + lebanese + turkmen + tuscan @ 2.023961
19 armenian + syrian + turkmen + tuscan @ 2.034332
20 lebanese-druze + turk + turkmen + tuscan @ 2.035268

Done.

Elapsed time 2.1518 seconds.

tahir0010
19-02-17, 03:48
As a turk i would think Azeri would be closer