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Rethel
25-10-16, 21:31
http://www.krakowniezalezny.pl/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/sanderus.jpg
Sanderus - famous polish German from
the film "Knights of the Teutonic Order". (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_the_Teutonic_Order_(film))

As I many times was saying on this forum, german minority in Polen is quite bizzare.
Why? Becasue official Germans are (in majority) Poles pretending to be Germans, but
real Germans are usually polonized - not necessary in the sense, that they consider
themselves Polans from times of the Myeshko the First, some yes, some don't, some
speak natively german, some not since generations. True polish German is in huge
majority polish patriot, but "the true" German is usually a Pole or germanized Pole.

Probably it seems unbeliveble, but this is the reality. Noone never made a seriously
research, and it is impossible to say, how many Germans, mostly polinized, live in
Poland. It had to be at least 1/10 but probably much more (especially if we'll take
under consideration those who were polonized in X-XIV centuries gaining later polish
names, so it is impossible to say now, who they are). Traceble Germans can be counted
but this process could take more than one year of counting in home enviroment. Maybe
some day (or rather year) I'll finally count it. But on the lists of coincidental people more
or less (but rather more) than 10% of people have German surnames. Among MEPs usually
it is 10+% of deputies of german provenance. The same situation was in my zero class, in
primary school, and in the high school. In my class always were 3-5 people with traceable
or probable german roots, what gives in average 10-15% of classmates. I must add, that I
live in area of recent 50-100 years migration from everywhere. And for example among my
closest neighbours (2-3 houses away) which I know is coincidently four families of german
provenance, and at primary scholl I had at least five teachers with german names.

So, lets departed polish Germans on three main categories:

1. Totally polonized Germans (who mostly came in X-XIV centuries).
2. Traceable Germans (mostly came after XIVth century until XXth).
3. Official German minority + germanized Poles.

The first group is mostly from the oldest immigration between X and XV centuries.
These people are mostly so well polinized, that it is impossible to know, that they
are Germans. Only some noble families can be traced or can be given to them some
estimated probablity. Here it must be added, that german settlement in Poland was
mostly containing peasants are burghers as long as it have place during some 900+
years. The first ones were probably some merchants and missoianaries shortly after
966 when Poland was baptized. But first orginized settlement was imported by the first
polish king, Boleslaus the Brave, who settled Germans in southern Poland and in Spish
to defend his kingdom from Hungary and Russia, but becasue they were "heavy and
fat folk" they were not good to fight, so king decided left then alone as farmers and
weavers. This chronicle's information is consider not trustworthy becasue came from
XVIth century, but the fact is, that on these lands german settlement was very early,
at least at XII/XIII centuries, so it is probable that was allready earier in XIth century.
But the same king send to Germany 300 Poles, which were an escort of Roman Emperor.

It is important to mention, that also before baptism, Poland and Germany had
some unknown contacts, and even one guy, "son of polish ruler" was a bishop
in Belgium before Poland was baptized, so who knows, maybe some Germans
did settle in Poland even then? But the fact also is, that in Xth century many
scandinavian settlers settle in Poland, so as a part of germanic folk, in some
stage could be counted too. From them probablly descend some szlachta's
clans as Avdaniec (nord. Audun, called also germ. Habdank) and Dunin (Dane).

First sure layman german people came to Poland with Casimir the Renewer in
1039 - he took with himself 500 german knights, which probably stayed in new
Vaterland. What is funny, at that time 100% of polish Army were Germans. :laugh:
The example of descendents from one of them could be clan of Jasiona/Jasieńczyk,
(as is hypothesiezed from legendary material). In next decades such kind of the war
settlers were also present. In times of Ladislaus Herman (last quoter of XIth century)
Fridrich Biberstein founded his own clan. But at that times Germans came rarly.

The boom for Drang nach Osten begin in early XIIIth century. It looked like on maps,
so if someone thinks, that Poles in Germany or GB are numerous, then let he looks on
that, having in mind, that whole cities where german, among them the main capitals
of Polish principalities, including the capital of Poland, Cracow, which remain german
until XVIth century, slowly polonizing as most cities did in XVth century...

http://inne-jezyki.amu.edu.pl/Editor/files/kolonizacja_niemiecka_sredniowiecze.jpg

http://www.piastowie.kei.pl/piast/mapy/13.jpg

62581
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=62581&d=1477412769

Form that period most Germans were polinized, and they dont know, that
they are Germans (exept of Germans from western and northern outskirts,
who germanized locals and in majority were resettled to Germany in 1945).
The good example of such people is very famous Tarnowski's Family (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Tarnowski) or the
medieval burgher family of Wierzyneks (https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wierzynkowie) (Wirsings).

In XIIIth and XIV century began full scale colonizasion of southern Poland.
This people can be consider as people between the first and second group
becasue some of them lost their german appierences but many don't. They
are called Deaf Germans. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walddeutsche) My maternal grandfather was from that area, was
even born in german founded village (in XIV century) but it is not known to
me if he was a German himself. But his mother (from the same area) was,
and she bore the same surname as known XIX century german philosopher,
who is famous of being (paradoxally) Polish-wannabe :)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c2/GermanHamletsSince15th.jpg/800px-GermanHamletsSince15th.jpg

As it is visible on the map, from the same wave of settlers partially came also
polish highlanders, Górals (literally: mountaineers) - from that reason called by
Nazi propaganda Gorallenvolk. So, the very next time when you will see Alicia
Bachleda-Curuś (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alicja_Bachleda-Curu%C5%9B) on the screen, you can try to find in her something germanish
(but it is not known for sure, if she is German herself. Some researchers claim
that Bachledas are Germans, etymologizing their surname as coming from the
root Bach, which means stream in german, but this theory is risky). At present
day Górals and Deaf Germans are very well polonized and they mostly weren't
even interested in German National List during occupation.

It will be continued...

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/91/55/51/915551f8038b46fbbf4c0ed7d7010a36.jpg

Tomenable
26-10-16, 17:57
Kelthuz's maternal grandma was a West German from Rhineland as he explains here, but her mtDNA wasn't typically German:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4lEGVunvvA

Rethel
26-10-16, 22:07
Kelthuz's maternal grandma was a West German

Doesn't count. :useless: