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View Full Version : Ancient Iranians had Sintashta-Srubna ancestry, but perhaps not Yamna ancestry



Tomenable
21-11-16, 14:38
Iron Age and Medieval Iranians shared segments >3cM with Sintashta, Srubna & Potapovka, but not with Yamna:

GEDmatch comparison of ancient Iranians and ancient Steppe (https://i.imgur.com/Vdxgqn6.png)

https://i.imgur.com/Vdxgqn6.png

Tomenable
21-11-16, 15:23
Kotias shares more segments with Steppe than IranN does; so I guess Kotias is a more likely source of CHG in Yamna:

GEDmatch comparison of Kotias CHG, Iran Neo and Steppe (https://i.imgur.com/wZf8yxO.png)

https://i.imgur.com/wZf8yxO.png

Goga
21-11-16, 16:02
Nothing new. There is some Steppe ancestry in West Asia (Iran, Kurdistan, etc) due to some backmigration of the EASTERN Iranic speaking Scythians from the Steppes. Ancient Iranians Iranized the Steppes. There is HUGE amount of the Iranian Plateau DNA in those Steppes cultures. Many thousands of years later some Iranized Scythinas migrated back into the Iranian Plateau. It has been documented.

But it doesn't mean that ancient Original Iranians are from the Steppes. Only 'Iranized' East Iranic speaking Scythians were from the Steppes. But those Scythians were MULTI racial/ethnic people.


In general there is a genitc continuation between Copper Age Western Iranians and moderday Iranians. My DNA is practically the same as that of the Copper Age Iranians. There is some East Iranic speaking Scythian ancestry in me, but not much. Western Iranian DNA is dominating in me big time..

Tomenable
21-11-16, 16:27
Many thousands of years later some Iranized Scythinas migrated back into the Iranian Plateau.

Actually Iron Age and Medieval Kurds/Iranians do not share any segments >3 cM with IA Scythian. They share with Sintashta, Srubnaya, Potapovka. BTW, only high quality samples are useful for these comparisons (I used only samples with >400,000 SNPs).

Goga
21-11-16, 16:40
Actually Iron Age and Medieval Kurds/Iranians do not share any segments >3 cM with IA Scythian. They share with Sintashta, Srubnaya, Potapovka. BTW, only high quality samples are useful for these comparisons (I used only samples with >400,000 SNPs).I made a mistake sorry

Tomenable
21-11-16, 16:45
T637158 & M381564 are Iron Age Iranian (sample F38) and Medieval Iranian (sample I1955).

They are from Western Iran (Iranian part of Kurdistan).

Goga
21-11-16, 17:05
T637158 & M381564 are Iron Age Iranian (sample F38) and Medieval Iranian (sample I1955).

They are from Western Iran (Iranian part of Kurdistan).Oh thanks, now I do see it. It is very interesting. But 971-832 BC was the era of the Scythians. It was exactly at that time when the East Iranic speaking Scythians migrated into the western parts of the Iranian Plateau (, long after the Sintashta, Srubnaya cultures). But by that time there was already a division between West and East Iranian.

But like I said those Scythians were MULTI inter-racial ethnic people. Maybe that M348213 ScythianIA didn't belong to a race of Scythians who migrated into the wesern parts of the Iranian Plateau. Scythans were not a homogeneous race. Scythians in the East and Central Asia (Saka Scythians) were different from the Scythians who lived in let say Ukraine

Alan
22-11-16, 15:27
Iron Age and Medieval Iranians shared segments >3cM with Sintashta, Srubna & Potapovka, but not with Yamna:

GEDmatch comparison of ancient Iranians and ancient Steppe (https://i.imgur.com/Vdxgqn6.png)

https://i.imgur.com/Vdxgqn6.png

Dear Tomenable

1. Middle Age Iranians actually share much more segments with Srubna and Potapovka than Sintashta. If we had Kura-Araxes or Yaz samples here the shared segments would be extremely high because those are the cultures the West Iranics derive from. And there is some ancient connection between Yaz and Srubna. Sintashta does not seem ancestral to Iranics at all (at least not West Iranics). But shows more connection to Indo_Aryans.


2. There is once again no Kotias, Iran_Neo or Satsurbila there because I bet this is mostly owed to shared ancestry. We had the Middle Age Iranian samples analysed they were nearly identical to modern day Iranic samples.

bicicleur
22-11-16, 21:33
Kotias shares more segments with Steppe than IranN does; so I guess Kotias is a more likely source of CHG in Yamna:

GEDmatch comparison of Kotias CHG, Iran Neo and Steppe (https://i.imgur.com/wZf8yxO.png)

https://i.imgur.com/wZf8yxO.png

the likely source of CHG in Yamna is SW of the Caspian Sea, and not the Zagros Mts.

Tomenable
23-11-16, 13:08
1. Middle Age Iranians actually share much more segments with Srubna and Potapovka than Sintashta.This is probably because Sintashta sample is of much better quality (two times higher coverage):I0419 (Potapovka) - 474,599 SNPsI0432 (Poltavka) - 648,053 SNPsI0423 (Srubnaya) - 418,611 SNPsRISE395 (Sintashta) - 888,393 SNPsLower coverage genomes usually show higher sharing due to having shorter unbroken segments.So in reality Iranians probably had more of Sintashta ancestry than of Srubna/Potapovka ancestry.