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Kisuan
06-12-16, 20:16
I absolutely love bagpipe music. Fitting for many occasions, unique and always inspiring to my ears. Not sure if many people love it as well, but I thought a thread specifically meant for it wouldn't be bad since it's such a characteristic instrument! Unfortunately, I just know the well known pieces (with the typical British isles bagpipes) that are meant for special occasions and so forth. It would be nice for anyone out there to share anything they have (could be from anywhere some version of the bagpipes are played).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qTga6GCpAM

LeBrok
07-12-16, 00:55
This instrument was also popular in Central Europe from Poland to Macedonia ander najm Gajdy (Gaydi), sometimes Dudy. Supposedly spreaded from Bulgaria with its name around 12th century.

If it comes to Scotts, they really kicked it up a notch or two, and showed the world how to use it properly.

This one is from Poland:

https://youtu.be/dnjwS86scVo?t=29

Angela
07-12-16, 01:31
I absolutely love bagpipe music. Fitting for many occasions, unique and always inspiring to my ears. Not sure if many people love it as well, but I thought a thread specifically meant for it wouldn't be bad since it's such a characteristic instrument! Unfortunately, I just know the well known pieces (with the typical British isles bagpipes) that are meant for special occasions and so forth. It would be nice for anyone out there to share anything they have (could be from anywhere some version of the bagpipes are played).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qTga6GCpAM

It seems to surprise people, but bagpipes are quite common in Italian folk music the length of the peninsula. There are two types of which I'm aware. One is called a piva, which is played in northern Italy, and the other is called a zampogna. There's usually someone playing a piffero with both instruments.

This is an example from northern Italy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVfCDYSilXE

This is a group specifically from near my father's valleys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NA8sdbpeM1M

This is an example from southern Italy. There is a tradition, still not dead, fortunately, of men playing the zampogna and the piffero as they walk the village streets, especially during the Christmas season. This particular performance is in a church, however.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkpUbA7tfHE


I think they were predominantly the instruments of the shepherds. That's why the creche figures in Italy always have shepherds playing the bagpipes and the piffero although I'm not aware of any evidence it was played in Israel two thousand years ago.

LABERIA
07-12-16, 12:20
We have a tradition with music with Bagpipe in Albania:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfO3aEcKzYE
Valle e rëndë burrash luftëtarë - me gajdeHeavy dance of warrrior men - with Bagpipe

LABERIA
07-12-16, 12:21
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGv_LEKgGew

Milan
07-12-16, 14:14
I absolutely love bagpipe music. Fitting for many occasions, unique and always inspiring to my ears. Not sure if many people love it as well, but I thought a thread specifically meant for it wouldn't be bad since it's such a characteristic instrument! Unfortunately, I just know the well known pieces (with the typical British isles bagpipes) that are meant for special occasions and so forth. It would be nice for anyone out there to share anything they have (could be from anywhere some version of the bagpipes are played).

Nice thread Kisuan,this is the folk instrument i like the most too,I'll be posting something from my country and region where im from,it was one of the most popular instruments.

This instrument was also popular in Central Europe from Poland to Macedonia ander najm Gajdy (Gaydi), sometimes Dudy. Supposedly spreaded from Bulgaria with its name around 12th century.

If it comes to Scotts, they really kicked it up a notch or two, and showed the world how to use it properly.

This one is from Poland:

The word gaita is used across northern Spain as a generic term for "bagpipe", although in the south of Spain and Portugal it denotes a variety of horn, flute or oboe like instruments according to region.
Probably Visigoths carried this instrument or word there.They originated in Eastern Europe.

It seems to surprise people, but bagpipes are quite common in Italian folk music the length of the peninsula. There are two types of which I'm aware. One is called a piva, which is played in northern Italy, and the other is called a zampogna. There's usually someone playing a pifero with both instruments.
Even emperor Nero is said to have known how to play bagpipes.

LeBrok
07-12-16, 17:25
I wonder what is the oldest bagpipe found by archeologists?

Kisuan
08-12-16, 00:17
Thanks for the shares you guys. :)


LeBrok
This instrument was also popular in Central Europe from Poland to Macedonia ander najm Gajdy (Gaydi), sometimes Dudy. Supposedly spreaded from Bulgaria with its name around 12th century.



Great info LeBrok. Is there a big difference between the two terms? Who do you think initially coined the term 'Dudy'? West Slavs/East Slavs? Is it an 'indigenous' instrument for Slavs?
Interestingly, Bulgaria has quite a special, large bagpipe called 'kaba gaida' exclusive to them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jccGfGBkky4
Who do you think brought 'Gajdy' into East Central Europe? Was it the Bulgarians themselves during their Empire period? Or some other group of people that possibly disappeared?
Interestingly, the Turks also adopted the term gayda for their own bagpipes from the Bulgarians it seems. But according to wiki, there is also the "tulum" bagpipe played by the Laz people and Pontic Greeks in Turkey. Also, it seems Greek bagpipes from the northern regions (Macedonia and Thrace) are also referred to by some variation of "gaida" and developed and played in a similar fashion to that of the Bulgarians'.


I wonder what is the oldest bagpipe found by archeologists?

According to wikipedia, actual bagpipes from before the 18th century are 'extremely rare'. I guess the animal skins typically used for the bags don't last a long time. The pipes on the other hand should, but I guess they would be treated as another instrument then?

@Angela
Great shares Angela! Loving the tunes. How did you think the piva and zampogna evolved throughout the ages to present day? (in other words, are there influences from other areas/folks that could have contributed to the construction and playing of these instruments in the past?) Interestingly, Aegean Greeks use the term 'tsambouna' for their bagpipes which seems to have come from Italian according to wiki. I suppose construction of this instrument and this naming are influences from the Byzantines and later on interactions between Greece and Italian city-states?

Interesting, I thought bagpipes had an important component/role in warfare as well (as marching tunes, war cries, etc.). Bagpipes are definitely big in memorials and military bands (especially those in the Anglosphere). Pretty common hearing Amazing Grace (New Britain) during memorial day services around here in the States.

@LABERIA
Nice tunes LABERIA. I'm supposing the Albanian gajde also comes from Bulgarian? It seems all Balkan groups have their main term for bagpipes from the Bulgarian term (except for Romanians). Though, the method of playing from your videos seems different from that of Bulgarian piping I heard from other videos.

@Milan
Thanks Milan. I look forward to your shares. Do all South Slavs mainly use the term 'gajde' for bagpipes? Looking at wikipedia, there seems to be other kinds of bagpipes as well amongst South Slavs (and also West and East Slavs), but I refrain from trusting it unless someone else reinforces the info.
Also, thanks for bringing up the Spanish term as well. That was also something that caught my attention when browsing around. Do 'gaita' and 'gaida' have a direct connection between each other? If it is from the Visigoths, wouldn't it be possible that they dropped the term in other places as well outside of Iberia and the Balkans?
I guess a big question that should be answered from all my inquiry is where does 'gaida' come from? Is it necessarily 'Bulgarian' in the first place? Does it have a proto-Slavic etymology? proto-Indo-European? something else entirely?

LeBrok
08-12-16, 03:14
All good questions Kisuan. Knowing how well spread this instrument is throughout Europe in folk music, I would guess that history of it goes at least into Middle Ages.

Dudy, in polish might mean loud noise or maybe something to do with blowing air. Other name for it is "koza" exactly meaning a goat, as the bag was customarily made of goatskin. Does it denotes this instrument being of shepherds and herders origin, and came from Near East with farmers? As well later could have come with herding nations of Central Asia like Bulgars?

One website claims this:


Who invented the bagpipes?



A:QUICK ANSWER

According to archaeological evidence, the bagpipe originated in the Middle East prior to 1000 B.C. The oldest evidence can be seen on a Hittite slab at Euyuk, showing the possible origin of the instrument.
CONTINUE READIN (https://www.reference.com/history/invented-bagpipes-63868a4b118918f2#)


FULL ANSWER

The bagpipe eventually spread to Greece and later to the Romans, who took the instrument with them to the regions they conquered. The bagpipe then spread to Britain, Ireland and Scotland, which are the countries it is traditionally associated with, around the beginning of the 13th century. The instrument was not initially popular with the people of these regions, but it came into greater use in the 1800s.
LEARN MORE ABOUT INVENTIONS (https://www.reference.com/history/explore/inventions)


https://www.reference.com/history/invented-bagpipes-63868a4b118918f2

Angela
08-12-16, 05:32
I found almost exactly the same thing from Italian sources: actual origin place and time unknown, first attested in the first century BC in the Hellenistic world, imported into Greco/Roman world 1-2nd century AD. From there it spread throughout the Roman world.

There are later mentions of it in the Middle Ages. For example, there's a description of it in 12th century Lombardia. From a court instrument it became an instrument of the poor.

http://www.ballatabellica.com/sito/Immagini/bombcorn.jpg
http://www.zampognarolagaro.it/zampogna-2.JPG

In northern Italy the use of the Italian forms of it died out after the second world war almost everywhere except in the Appennino Parmense. It has, however, undergone a revival.
http://www.baghet.it/cartinanorditalia.jpg

http://www.zampognarolagaro.it/storia.php

Angela
08-12-16, 14:52
The bagpipes were often used for dance music.

This is a group performing in Parma: The Giga di Zeri

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twyKhg9G0yY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twyKhg9G0yY

This is people dancing the "giga", which is the Italian version of the medieval "giga". The Irish "jig" is another version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugcWKQacVPg

Kisuan
15-12-16, 02:29
Thanks for the info Angela & LeBrok. It's pretty much identical to what I've read, but you could also find bagpipes up in Scandinavia, the Baltics, and even amongst some Siberian ethnicities + South Asia as well (areas outside of Roman influence). The Hellenistic Kingdoms from Alexander's time might be responsible for diffusing the bagpipes to India... or just trade and contacts between the Middle East. Trade and contact between previously Roman-dominated lands and Scandinavia+Baltics (and also Russia maybe) might be the reason why you find bagpipes there as well. But I have no idea why you can find this instrument amongst some Turkic + Finno-Ugric groups in Siberia though.. (could be Russian influence, or could just be an independent development, but then again).

Also, why aren't bagpipe depictions/mentions found/survived from Post Roman period to Middle Ages (or before the 13th century about)? :thinking:Fell out of fashion during these times?

Btw, Angela, the piffero + bagpipe combo reminds me a lot of Breton music. :thinking:Have you ever heard some before? The Bretons play another double-reed instrument called "bombard" and accompany it with bagpipes as well commonly. There seems to be some similarity, but I think Brittany is much closer to the British Isles in culture.
From a quick search:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXinY_WxTq8

Angela
16-12-16, 05:02
In both cases, Kisuan, I think it's the survival of music forms from the late medieval/Renaissance periods that were widespread throughout Europe. Some regions held onto them and some didn't. We don't dance the giga or jig because we learned it from the Irish, or vice versa. The giga was a very widespread dance all through Europe. Both we and the Irish kept the dance alive. In the case of the piva, it's totally understandable that we held onto it whereas some areas lost the tradition, as there were no roads up to the Appennine ridge in some places until the 1920s. These people had been up there since the 1500s and even 1400s in some cases. Transportation was by mule track.

Some of us like to hold onto our ancient instruments...even today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D-R7boxlws


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D-R7boxlws

LeBrok
16-12-16, 06:28
Very modern version of bagpipe.

https://youtu.be/sgzZLNwqvdQ?t=4

Joey D
16-12-16, 10:11
I personally was surprised to discover some years ago that there is a Sicilian/Calabrian version of the bagpipe called the ciaramedda.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFz78Amviig



From the Dizionario Etimologico Siciliano:

CIARAMEDDA s. f. Cornamusa (bagpipes) - Old French chalemal from latin calamelus, diminutive of calamus, reed.

Yetos
16-12-16, 21:57
That is not bagpipe, but guida ( 1 guide tone),
simillar to ancient ασκαυλος
there is also αγγειον or tsampouna (zampogna) or touloum which is different.

the bellow is from Thrace were the tradition is strong, with many many players,
you can feeelll the rythm and if you leave your shelf you find promordial ecstasy


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwEOCR3-REQ



Guida (kind of bagpipe) to some areas is considered local national organ, and magical forces
like here, were they celebrate the repel of crusaders (4rth) when they attack their village/castle at 1205.
since then they celebrate with a guida gathering fiesta

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF8EQxP4xWk

Krum
15-07-19, 03:53
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GN-KFgvLMM

Krum
15-07-19, 04:02
"Izlel ye Delyo Haydutin" (Bulgarian: Излел е Дельо хайдутин) ("Delyo has become hajduk") is a Bulgarian folk song from the central Rhodope Mountains about Delyo, a rebel leader who was active in the late seventeenth and early eighteenth centuries. The song is most famously sung by Valya Balkanska, a 1977 recording of which was included on the Golden Record carried on board the Voyager 1 and Voyager 2probes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vh6HKXE_eg

Krum
15-07-19, 04:04
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo86lcvDK-w

Krum
15-07-19, 04:11
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDWcKXma244

Krum
15-07-19, 04:20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmpmFocZL_o&t=11s

Dreptul Valah
15-07-19, 19:04
Vlach bagpipes from Albania


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dvLJowhNpZc


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0ab-eiIYgyc


"this man plays like an angel,so...even the wild animals kneel in front of him"

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://pressto.amu.edu.pl/index.php/bp/article/download/3900/4045&ved=2ahUKEwiyuIe-tbfjAhUNmIsKHcUdAn4QFjAEegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw1e2Qrjl8JG9L-rjDnE6IUd&cshid=1563210666542

Dreptul Valah
15-07-19, 19:26
Nice landscape, it reminds me of Posada.


As one Romanian said on some forum,"if there wouldn't have been Posada..."


,..,...,.......................................... ...........

Dreptul Valah
15-07-19, 19:29
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Posada

exceededminimumso..
19-07-19, 15:08
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnvAu3C0Gb4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXnWlooxUIg

Wheal
19-07-19, 16:15
Bagpipes speak to my soul, when I hear the music, I can feel it....

bigsnake49
05-01-20, 15:52
For me at least, bagpipes should always be associated with dancing and should be accompanied by drums. If you want to play a sad dirge song use the clarinet or the violin.

Angela
05-01-20, 17:08
For me at least, bagpipes should always be associated with dancing and should be accompanied by drums. If you want to play a sad dirge song use the clarinet.

There you go. :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twyKhg9G0yY&list=PLLQzFse3rpH8H7ZIumnw-vQ8d80rOU947&index=5

La Giga di Zeri...alta Lunigiana near the border with Emilia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPyNvUPT2xM

Almost always the dances in the village squares on the weekends were the waltz, the mazurka and the polka. Later on also the tango, but NOT the tango of the current tv dance shows.

The giga was a relict, almost gone now, unlike Irish dancing.

Yetos
06-01-20, 20:45
For me at least, bagpipes should always be associated with dancing and should be accompanied by drums. If you want to play a sad dirge song use the clarinet or the violin.

you mean such? like W Thrace



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDfjwp6GujU

or like this, C Makedonia



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmFJf1IOai8

bigsnake49
07-01-20, 06:39
you mean such? like W Thrace



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDfjwp6GujU

or like this, C Makedonia



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmFJf1IOai8

The second one is bipolar. Does it want to be a slow song, a fast one? Plus I don't think that gaida and clarinet go together well. Both are dominant instruments and they should not play at the same time. They can be in the same song but they should not play at the same time. In the second song, just the clarinet should play. This is not a gaida song.

Yetos
07-01-20, 15:53
The second one is bipolar. Does it want to be a slow song, a fast one? Plus I don't think that gaida and clarinet go together well. Both are dominant instruments and they should not play at the same time. They can be in the same song but they should not play at the same time. In the second song, just the clarinet should play. This is not a gaida song.


Zourna,
not clarinet,
it is clear a zourna sound.

Krum
11-01-20, 00:58
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m7pDfPXEe4&


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtgyQlpv6SI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA07xmG8XEg

bigsnake49
30-03-20, 20:29
Zourna,
not clarinet,
it is clear a zourna sound.
Except I don't see a zourna and I clearly see a clarinet.

Yetos
30-03-20, 20:51
Except I don't see a zourna and I clearly see a clarinet.

yup, you are right,

that is zourna


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIbNwiOA1Jc