PDA

View Full Version : Cromagnoid vs Brünnoid?



Aha
16-12-16, 13:03
I am currently reading this forum on palaeolithic and Mesolithic period people in Europe, and I noticed some people differentiate WHG people on Cromagnoid and, quoting "'capelloid' or 'brünnoid'". I was under impression all early European WHG were Cromagnoid.
So the question is: who are those capelloids? Who are brünnoid? What are the major difference between those three in terms of anthropology? Skull, chin, forehead, head height, shape? Did they have different origin in terms of y-dna/mt-dna?


Thank you!

LeBrok
16-12-16, 19:00
Are there any maps showing extent of different types and changes in time?

MOESAN
17-12-16, 18:29
All the way my opinion is that they already grouped two principal sets of bony features very distinct one from another, inherited for the most from Paleolithic ; the bearers of more 'cromagnon' oriented could be arrived the first, from East and before surely from Near-East(as all our ancestors in Europe, or almost, except some SSA) - the 'brünnoid-capelloids' ancestors for I believe arrived later, from elswhere, but maybe through a more northern route (not directly from Near-East but after a stage in East Eurasia), only guess here; I see them arriving with Gravettian culture. It seems the place where the meeting between both was the more evident based on bones aspects (on what was known sometime ago) would be Czechoslovakia (Brno) and generally Central Europe; the resulting Mesolithic pop, with its unequally admixed pops, and maybe with more recent recent arrivals of Hgs of roughly same remote originS, shew diverse metric means, with some trends concerning stature but not too clear geographic cranial repartitions, only perhaps more weight to 'brünnoid' in East and Northeast, and more weight to 'cromagnoid' in West and Southwest; at the Mesolithic period of Balkans it seems the remote descendants of these two big floods still shew some clear enough divisions (tendancy towards one side or the other; the trend towards gracilisation, which is not by force a rupture in descent and the proof of demic foreign input, did not erase the two phyla shapes in a lot of individuals, and are still visible today, but NEVER AS A MAJORITY OR AS A GROUP.
"outside the range of ...": to be proved! their means are outside the range of our means; but absolute sizes are not the lone criteria to take in account concerning heredity. I add some regions of Europe, yes, show today more often "rescaped" features of the WHG; I add too that the 'cromagnoid' trend has left very undiscernable traces concerning craniology/heads (frontal: smoothly receding, a bit curved, nothing "brutal"), only it gave square short broad faces and low eyesockets, rather small.
the more common inheritage from 'brünnoid' is a very receding frontal, strong browridge, great orbits, and excess of bizygomatic breadth
compared to jaw breadth and frontal breadth;
the people which say WHG traits are not visible today (under its 2 opposed forms) have not looked often and deeply enough to their European brethren (I think in places in Wales, Sardigna, Portugal, Flanders, Norway, even Grrec or Ukraina and so on... but I could say everywhere a the individual level).
evidently the typical features I evocated here doesn't resume the variability of WHGs descendants because in some places some new traits appeared (as the not satisfyingly explained brachycephaly); and I don't speak of fleshy parts of body, which are less traceable to ancient times by evidence.