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Tomenable
26-01-17, 18:07
I wanted to post it in another thread, but it was closed (likely because it was based on false news / fake study):

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/33382-Most-women-experience-orgasm-during-rape-study-claims

Dr. Herschel Liebowitz - the supposed author of that study about orgasm during rape - does not exist. He is a fictional person. However, this data seems to be from a reliable source ("psychologytoday" website) and I don't think it is fake:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-about-sex/201508/why-do-women-have-rape-fantasies


The Results

Confirming earlier studies on the prevalence of rape fantasies, 62 percent of participants admitted fantasizing at least one of the eight scenarios:

Forced by a man: 52%.

Raped by a man: 32%.

Forced oral by a man: 28%.

Forced while incapacitated: 24%.

Forced by a woman: 17%.

Forced anal: 16%.

Raped by a woman: 9%.

Forced oral by a woman: 9%.

ihype02
13-08-17, 12:37
It is not rape when you like it.

SaolSeo
09-11-17, 17:11
It is not rape when you like it.

That rather ignorant statement is where you are wrong.

Women can & do have organsms during rape. It is a natural response and in a way unavoidable. But because someone has an organism, something that indicates "you like it", that does not mean the woman actually likes it. An organsm does not eradicate the sense of powerlessness, of degradation, etc. that a woman who experiences rape goes through. If anything it makes it worse.

Don't believe me. I worked with women who were rape victims. So why don't you go find a woman's shelter, or a woman who has suffered through rape, and ask her how she feels. How about you ask a relative or a friend. Ask her if she "liked it". That's if you've got the balls to.

LeBrok
09-11-17, 17:45
That rather ignorant statement is where you are wrong.

Women can & do have organsms during rape. It is a natural response and in a way unavoidable. But because someone has an organism, something that indicates "you like it", that does not mean the woman actually likes it. An organsm does not eradicate the sense of powerlessness, of degradation, etc. that a woman who experiences rape goes through. If anything it makes it worse.

Don't believe me. I worked with women who were rape victims. So why don't you go find a woman's shelter, or a woman who has suffered through rape, and ask her how she feels. How about you ask a relative or a friend. Ask her if she "liked it". That's if you've got the balls to.
Thanks for your smart insides SaolSeo, and welcome to Eupedia.

ihype02
11-11-17, 16:41
I regret my post. I should've worded myself different, but I couldn't because you cannot edit your posts after a certain period of time.

Angela
11-11-17, 17:30
If anything, the fact that a woman, or a man for that matter, has a physical response to the rape may indeed make the whole event more humiliating and difficult to process.

I think people have to stop thinking of it as primarily an act of sex. Like the kind of sexual assaults and various indignities revealed in the scandalous news from Hollywood, it's about power, about someone taking pleasure in exerting it over others, and the more degrading and humiliating it is for the victim, the more some of them seem to enjoy it.

That said, this doesn't by any means occur in every or even most cases. Women who have been raped at knife or gun point, with objects or in other violent and humiliating ways have never, in my experience, reported that they had a pleasurable body response.

Seanp
12-11-17, 00:37
Can we assume that rapists themselves were victims of rape during their early childhood that traumatized them psychologically in a way that they find rape as a learned response and eventually led to some form of enjoyment or copy mechanism cover up painful memories? Many rapists came from vicious families, so it can be led to the thought that nobody born in a certain abnormality that makes them enjoy rape, but it's a learned act.

davef
12-11-17, 01:58
Rape is forcing someone into sexual intercourse without permission, so why would any woman fantasize a situation she never wanted to be part of to begin with?

And if she does for some odd reason (ie a few loose screws) fantasize rape, then that means she wouldn't mind being raped, but then it wouldn't be rape, right? See the paradox? Allowing rape to happen is allowing intercourse to happen which at that point doesn't count as rape.

i hope I worded this right

Wheal
12-11-17, 16:53
It could be that men fantasize that women like the fantasy. I think it is a sick thought that will result in more men taking advantage of women.

Have you ever been so scared that you truly believed that you were going to die? To the point that you have accepted that you will died? To the point that you become calm because you know you are going to died? That is what a woman feels when she is raped.

davef
12-11-17, 17:06
^^ oh wow, it's that terrifying as if you're about to die? I'm not doubting you, it's just that I've always felt that it was something very unpleasant like being fired from a job as opposed to a near death experience.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm no expert

firetown
12-11-17, 17:07
How about you ask a relative or a friend. Ask her if she "liked it". That's if you've got the balls to.
"Hey mom, can I ask you something...?"... no, thanks.

Seanp
12-11-17, 19:05
It could be that men fantasize that women like the fantasy. I think it is a sick thought that will result in more men taking advantage of women.

Have you ever been so scared that you truly believed that you were going to die? To the point that you have accepted that you will died? To the point that you become calm because you know you are going to died? That is what a woman feels when she is raped.

Why should men be blamed for a few sick individuals? I don't see the need to point out gender here rather mental health issues which make them commit rape, not their gender. Few cases been noted when women molested kids and even adult men, but it fits less into the image of what the majority think of individuals with rapist tendencies.

firetown
12-11-17, 19:14
One other thing I would like to point out is that women tend to treat fantasies differently than men. So a woman can for example fantasizes about a good-looking guy, but if she doesn't dig his personality, she will not likely act on it. If a man fantasizes about a girl and has the option to be with her, he will much more likely take that opportunity. Even if there are serious flaws he sees in her character.

So if in fact a woman has such fantasies, I can see that more likely resulting in role-play with a boyfriend rather than her visiting Harvey Weinstein or Mike Tyson in their hotel rooms in the middle of the night.

firetown
12-11-17, 23:39
It could be that men fantasize that women like the fantasy. I am not sure what disturbs me more. You claim that men want to rape women or the thought of some men that women want to be raped. Both is equally evil to me.

Angela
13-11-17, 01:28
I don't understand why so much surprise is being expressed. A very large percentage of people have been sexually molested at least once in their lives, if not raped. Children get raped by their brothers, uncles, fathers and stepfathers, grandfathers, priests, rabbis, teachers, coaches, you name it. The number of actual occurrences are much higher than the number of prosecutions. Girls and women get raped by their friends, by their husbands, on occasion, at university when they're drunk, by strangers in dark alleys. Boys get raped or abused too, and men in prison.

Some of you sound as if acknowledging it is tantamount to approving of it. It isn't. There was absolutely nothing wrong with Wheal's comment. Some men do fantasize about it, and some women fantasize about being "forced" or "overpowered", which is somewhat different.

As for it being a problem with one gender, that's obvious. Even if you believe that a woman can "rape" a man, rather than sexually assault or molest him, the percentage of women who commit such acts no matter how defined is infinitesimal compared to the percentage of men. That's just reality, whether men like to acknowledge it or not. Why do you think there are sexual abuse units in every police jurisdiction, and why do you think the vast percentage of defendants are men? We don't do it because we have an agenda against men.

Have you ever heard of women using rape as a weapon of war as in "The Rape of Nanking" or in the Bosnian conflict barely thirty years ago? How do you explain what happens with every mass migration where suddenly the percentage of the "native" y lines significantly decreases but the mtDna lines remain? Do you think the native males voluntarily neutered themselves, and the women were all courted with roses and poems? What do you think has happened throughout history when a besieged city falls? What do you think the Russians did to the women of Berlin, little girls and grandmothers some of them, during World War II?

I think it's time for a reality check.

Rape of Nanking:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre#Rape

Rape as a Weapon of War in the Balkans:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_Bosnian_War

Russian atrocities against German women in Berlin in WWII:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany#Soviet_troop s

Percentage of people who have been sexually abused in some way:
The numbers are pretty staggering: one out of six women have either been raped, or there's been an attempted rape.
https://www.rainn.org/statistics/victims-sexual-violence
https://www.nsopw.gov/en-US/Education/FactsStatistics?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

Percentage of sexual abusers who are male vs. female: The commonly reported statistic is that 96% of the perpetrators of sexual assaults overall are male.
http://victimsofcrime.org/media/reporting-on-child-sexual-abuse/statistics-on-perpetrators-of-csa

More specifically as to "female rape fantasies", only a very sick woman would fantasize about being violently raped, or raped while unconscious, or even subjected to extreme pressure that she might lose her job.

What a lot of people don't seem to understand is that sexual abuse victims can suffer from quite severe PTSD, and if they're not very resilient and emotionally strong, it can affect them their whole lives. Young girls who are abused use drugs and alcohol more, do worse in school, can become anorexic, or promiscuous, run away, and on and on. It is no joke.

I think that women who say that they fantasize about rape mean something quite different than what gets reported. It's probably because for some women there's still some stigma in their own minds about being too eager for sex, and so being swept upstairs a la Rhett Butler takes all blame from them and frees them from their inhibitions. I doubt they envision some brutal, violent, actual rape. That doesn't seem at all mentally healthy to me. I think that must be what's going on with that book and movie which was all over, and whose name escapes me. I didn't see it and have no interest in seeing it, so this is just conjecture. My gut reaction is that people who get off on that kind of stuff just aren't very highly sexed and so it takes more extreme stimulation than for other people, or again, it's because they're actually very inhibited rather than the opposite.

Of course, this latter is all amateur, armchair psychology. :) Still, I doubt the psychologists understand it all that well either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_36zsAP-Wh0

Great movie which I've seen many times, but each time I'm irritated throughout the whole thing. What a consummate fool she was to think herself in love with that twit Ashley Wilkes when she had Rhett Butler/Clark Gable.

davef
13-11-17, 01:41
It still makes no sense to fantasize about something you would never want. I can't imagine a woman standing over a balcony with "romantic" daydreams of a crazy homeless guy groping her in a dark alley against her will.

Seanp
13-11-17, 01:46
Thousands of young boys are victims of priests and child predators.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN6rsGa5pxU

firetown
13-11-17, 23:08
Some of you sound as if acknowledging it is tantamount to approving of it. It isn't. There was absolutely nothing wrong with Wheal's comment. Some men do fantasize about it, and some women fantasize about being "forced" or "overpowered", which is somewhat different. You need to re-read her comment. You are saying SOME men which is absolutely correct. She is saying men in general which is beyond ignorant.
More specifically as to "female rape fantasies", only a very sick woman would fantasize about being violently raped, or raped while unconscious, The study above made no attempt to find out what might trigger such fantasies. Oftentimes it is re-enactment. Sort of a desire to relive a traumatic experience but with someone you trust. Fantasies about violently being raped would indeed be unusual. But rather than dismissing them as sick, we need studies to figure how to give them the tools to overcome related trauma rather than putting themselves in compromising positions. And just calling someone sick would also add to the "slut shaming" making women with such issues feel even more alone and "disgusting" in their state of mind. I have read about this study before, but want to point out that the headlines are often misleading claiming 62% of women fantasizing about rape. This of course, as we see it broken down by the OP, is simply wrong as the actual "raped by a man" results are stated as being 32%. Now I am curious as to why the mtDNA K line within the Basque population may have gone from 24% to 4% in 5,000 years. But I will save that for another thread.

Angela
14-11-17, 02:41
I am beyond irritated by post-modern, relativistic, trigger happy talk. Anyone who fantasizes pleasurably about being violently raped is indeed sick, as in has a mental health problem. The sooner the person acknowledges it and gets help the better. It's as much a mental health issue to enjoy being abused as it is to enjoy abusing and inflicting pain. If you can't name something you can't change it.

It is also a mental health issue if one keeps reliving traumatic events like rapes because one has been violently sexually abused and suffers from PTSD. Again, while I have immense compassion for them it is indeed a disorder, and of course the person needs to be treated by a mental health professional.

It is totally different from a woman who may have different standards than I do and happily has sex with multiple men. That's her business as long as she isn't hurting other people.

As for Wheal's comment, it is in the conditional tense. It is not stating that all men are like that. Also, given the nature of her texts, I would never assume she meant all single men are like that. Sniping at other members and picking apart every word is not helpful in building collegiality here.

"It could be that men fantasize that women like the fantasy."

firetown
14-11-17, 16:09
I don't consider it sniping pointing out false assumptions. And now YOU as well are turning it into men in general fantasizing that women like the fantasy. I think we should focus on raw data, because otherwise we are running from potential answers which will never lead to solutions. Don't have much time now, but looked quickly to Wikipedia:

45.8% of men in a 1980 study reported fantasizing during heterosexual intercourse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_intercourse) about "a scene where [they had] the impression of being raped by a woman" (3.2% often and 42.6% sometimes), 44.7% of scenes where a seduced woman "pretends resisting" and 33% of raping a woman.[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_fantasy#cite_note-8)





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_fantasy

Weirdly, the 33% is similar to the 32% in above study. So maybe when these people find each others, that would be the solutions.

Yes, I do get how you mean "sick". And there is a need for more real studies to provide the right therapy. Not just for women with trauma, but also men who are potential rapists. Prevention is much better than waiting for the ticking timebombs to strike.

And again:
"It could be that men fantasize that women like the fantasy."
The answer is a clear NO. SOME men yes.

Wheal
14-11-17, 16:38
My understanding was and is the article was about a woman being raped by a man. So I don't believe I changed any of the characters, simply said, that the fantasy was the man's about what women wanted. I personally believe that men do think a woman wants to be raped, but if a woman says that I don't believe that a woman would have that desire if she also believed that she was in a life and death situation and that she was going to die. The response was based on my personal experience. I am not accusing all men of being rapists. I certainly hope that I taught my sons to be respectful.
I believe the hypotheses of the testing was erroneous and an insult to women as much as if it was a study saying that Men or Children fantasized about being raped.
My apologies to the group for causing an uproar.

Angela
14-11-17, 16:44
@Firetown,
Nowhere did I say that all men fantasize about raping women. Read carefully.

NotUrHero
07-09-19, 12:46
Some people only fantasize about some things. They wanna do roleplay :). Woman who have rape fantasies probably wanna play "victim" as a safe role, with somebody who dosen't push limits or don't hurt them. 90% of them don't really wanna be raped.

RoeGriffin
16-11-19, 23:15
One possible explanation: It's the same reason some people love horror movies - it's thrilling to play with heightened emotions and to get an adrenaline rush, but in a safe setting where you know you won't actually be hurt.


Another: In a society that doesn't allow women to fully express their sexual desires, it can be appealing to construct a fantasy where you get the kind of sex you want, but you were "forced" into it so you don't have to bear the social cost/personal embarrassment of actually admitting that you like it. But again, in a safe context where you won't actually be hurt because it's a fantasy (either in your head or in a consensual-nonconsent situation where all parties are on the same page about boundaries).