why Okunevo culture was ingored in Indo-European history? they are just paleo people

johen

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I have thought that okunevo people lived together with afanasievo people.
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthr...kunevo-culture-of-Altai-Mt-2-500bc-R1a-or-R1b.

Looks like R1a-z93 and chariot of sintahsta origianted in Okunevo-afanasievo culture, who migrated in India, and west asia.

The Southern Migration of the SayanArchaeological ComplexLyudmila A. SokolovaInstitute for the History of Material Culture RAS,Saint-Petersburg, Published in the Journal of Indo-European studies Volume 40
http://www.clarkriley.com/JIES4034web/07Sokolova(434-456).pdf

However, during preliminary analysis, G. A. Maksimenkov made some mistakes, the consequences of which have not been corrected until now. 1. The date of the culture was established through evidence from the late period cemetery of Chernovaya VIII that comprised mostly late burials. 2. The features of the early burial traditions identified by M. N. Komarova were not taken into account while the early cemeteries simply were entered into the general register of Okunevo sites. 3. Relations with the nearest neighbors – Afanasyevo tribes – were examined only through the younger complexes which overlaid the Afanasyevo graves. Those complexes where both Okunevo and Afanasyevo burials were found with their funerary offerings together in single graves (TasKhazaa, Kamyshta BK, Afanasyeva gora: grave 6) were dismissed as the mistaken interpretations of archaeologists. 4. G. A. Maksimenkov himself wrote that the Okunevo culture originated from the Ust-Belsky Neolithic cultural complex. Nonetheless, he dated the Okunevo to the period later than that of the Afanasyevo culture which came from the Altai in the Early Bronze Age. This created a controversy that was explained by him through the so-called “reconquista” – the Afanasyevo tribes allegedly had ousted the Okunevo tribes from the Minusinsk Basin, but the latter later returned and, in turn, drove out the “invaders.” Meanwhile, G. A. Maksimenkov disregarded the real facts of the coexistence of the two complexes. 5. As a consequence, the Okunevo culture was dated to the middle and even second half of the 2nd millennium BC. Only with the emergence of radiocarbon dates has it been proved that this culture had been developing throughout the entire 3rd millennium BC and continued until the Andronovo culture as late derivatives of the once greater culture.
The present article covers the problem of the origin of
innovations in the material complex of Harappa in terms of
Northern influences. The Sayan complex of archaeological
cultures of the Early Bronze Age, composed mainly of
descendants of the Afanasyevo and Okunevo tribes, formed a
single archaeological entity which migrated southwards to
the upper reaches of the Indus River and further westwards to
eastern Anatolia.
The spread of the influence of the Sayan
complex over vast regions was based not only on the
technologies new for that period but also on its powerful
ideological impact on the local population. We can select a
set of the most important evidence, which accompanied the
“Sayan Archaeological Complex”: 1-images of horned
deities; 2-ceramics with basal motifs; 3- chariots and methods
of horse harnessing; 4- Okunevo petroglyphs found along the
Karakorum high road not far from Harappa; 5- some common
features in material culture such as types of knives, pottery,
burials in stone cists. During the movement ethnic groups of
different origin flowed into the migration stream. The
Okunevo population dominated this complex of people,
providing an ideological influence on others and uniting all
into one super-ethnos, under a single ethnonym – Arya
.

And the newcomer Aryans in the Indus valley (Swat) for example:

"Twelve skulls from the graves of Butkara II and four skulls from the settlement of Aligrama have been found. They belong to the Mediterranean type that is represented in Central Asia. B. A. Litvinsky (1972: 186) has underlined “a remarkable resemblance between a series of skulls from Swat and the Saka skulls from the Pamirs” which was first noted by B. Bernhard (1967: 317-385). It suggests a genetic relation between the two populations. Among the 25 skulls from Timargarha this type is represented, as well as a massive proto-Caucasoid type which was distinctive for the steppe Andronovans, a Veddoid (3 skulls) usual for the indigenous inhabitants of Hindustan, and a Mongoloid type (2 skulls) which might have appeared during Ghaligai period III from Kashmir."
source: Elena E. Kuz’mina: The Origin of the Indo-Iranians - Leiden, 2007

Original carts, the bodywork and the drawbar which is comparable to okunёvskimi, found in graves II thousand. BC. e. in the South Caucasus - Trialeti burial (Mound 5) and burial Lchashen. Among them there are both two-wheeled and four-wheeled. http://www.garshin.ru/evolution/ant...ps/y-dna/c-y-hg/c3-father-subclade/index.html

Ernest Mackay, who published the mask from Harappa
and the “priest” figure from Mohenjo-daro, pointed out
that they in no way correspond to the local small plastic art
traditions and held them as imports. Of the Harappan
terracottas proper, a minutely developed canon is
characteristic: these are female statuettes with luxuriant
locks and round eyes rendered with appliqués or pits.
Against such a background, the maskoids and “priests” are
noteworthy precisely because of their peculiarity.
According to Mackay, these statuettes are of a distinctly
Mongoloid appearance and differ sharply in their facial
type from the ordinary examples. They were retrieved from
one of the lowest strata of the city and suggest that its
population may have had an admixture of Mongoloid blood
introduced, possibly, by newcomers from the North-West,
or perhaps from the Iranian Plateau where, during
excavations in Tepe Hissar, several very ancient Mongoloid
skulls were found (Mackay 1951:133).

A similar method of harnessing is represented on seals from Kul-Tepe (Anatolia), where chariots are drawn probably either by some other type of equid or onager (Figure 6, 3: 2, 3).

Summing up, the Sayan complex of archaeological cultures of the Early Bronze Age, composed mainly of descendents of the Afanasyevo and Okunevo tribes, proved to have been a single archaeological formation for which there is convincing evidence that it migrated southwards to the upper reaches of the Indus River and further westwards to eastern Anatolia. There is rich evidence for the coexistence of the migrants with the local population, and we are only now beginning to understand the pre-conditions of such a successful movement and development of this cultural complex into new territories.

2ij6wkj.jpg
 
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I thought recent analyses showed that genetically Okunevo is related to American Indians, and not just through ancient ANE ancestry.
 
surprising, amazing, I 'll have to re-consider all my archeology knowings (do notice it will be done in a short time!) - reverse of archeological influences in ancient times? I wait for more knowledged forumers opinion about this stuff...
 

Judging by the picture this is not the chariot, but just bulls harnessed to wagon. Moreover, contrary to myth, there is no general testifies to the use of horses as transport and mobility until Sintashta. All Indo-European cultures used castrated bulls harnessed to a wagon up to that time.
 
The problem is that many of these diagnostic features appear at the Indus river before Okunevo and any hypothetical migration from the north. See, for example, the Pashupati seal.

The 'Arya' stuff is also pretty nuts.
 
The problem is that many of these diagnostic features appear at the Indus river before Okunevo and any hypothetical migration from the north. See, for example, the Pashupati seal.

As far as I know, Ancient Egypt, Summer, IVC and China shang civilization have a similarity with Mesoamerican civilizations. Especially K.C Chang thought that chinese and american Indian have a common ancestor. I started to think common denominator of the similarity might be ANE factor.

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/33035-Classify-me-(Chinese-guy)?p=493564#post493564
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/33037-ANE-Karitiana-and-Baltics?p=493822#post493822 (#8)
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/33257-upside-down-pyramids
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...mb-builders-uncovered-in-Egypt-7-000-year-old

Oldest Pyramid Was Found – And It’s In Kazakhstan:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/32383-Fantasy-and-conspiracy-about-white-pyramid (post #20)

I don't know now, but maybe here in Göbekli Tepe also:

Göbekli Tepe Shamans and their Cosmic Symbols
"Some researchers like Andrew Collins also mention the possible shamanism in Göbekli Tepe with regard to astronomy and cosmology. He approaches the subject in terms of pole star belief which we know from shamanism. Pole star is the creation point of all the universe, according to shamans. Today in Asia, Turkish, Mongolian and Tungus shamans still believe that the sky-god Tengri Ülgen ascends the throne on the pole star, Polaris."
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...ars-earlier-than-believed?p=499562#post499562 (post 4)

by MarkoZ: The 'Arya' stuff is also pretty nuts.

surely, R1a-93 originated in Altai
R1a-Z93+maps+small.png


Okunevo people is closely anthropologically related with karasuk, Altai scythian. one of karasuk Yhg is R1a-z93(Aryan).
Altai scythian moved West. And it was proved that west scythian is connected to srunba(R1a-z93).
The Late Scythian population considered in this study proved to be genetically homogeneous, although some connections with the Sarmatians were found. We also revealed similarities between the Scythian groups and the local Bronze Age population of the Srubnaya culture, as well as, to a lesser extent, a group representative of the Central Asian Bronze Age Okunevo culture.

moreover by D. Anthony:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/33302-Corded-Ware-Culture-admixture-against-Yamnayans?p=497258 (#11)

Mongol bronz people has R1a-z93 also, which might be west mongol bronze people chandman. Chandman resembles UP people and american Indian by C. Brace.

Even if MOESAN had argument, Aryan and scythian had the same hair mode:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/31324-Where-did-proto-IE-language-start/page10?p=494286#post494286 (post 232)

sikhh.jpg[COLOR=

With the arrival of the Aryans, in the 15th century BC, the Indus Valley civilization comes to the end and starts the Vedic Period, when the first sacred texts written in Sanskrit appear. It's into this period when the caste-system is installed. Costumes change, and also the ways of grooming the hair, even by difference between castes. The Vedas prescribed that every Indian should use the hair cut in form of sikha, which is equivalent to shave the whole head, leaving a lock of hair at the back or at the side. The sacred texts say that "Sikha allows God to pull people to Heaven "... Over time, this kind of haircut will be worn only by the Brahmins, the priests' caste. The rest of the people will use long hair,

Capture.png[COLOR=
 
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just guess how the okunevo people look like:

Okunevo-figurine (big almond eyes)
inside_figurine_left.jpg


Hongshan jade in Manchu 5,000bc
e962_1.jpg


e962_3.jpg


And First one: maya, second one: axe for human sacrifice in shang (1,600bc) in china, third : shu culture(2,000bc) in sichuan of China. I think they were all ANE people.
Capture.png
 
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Hongshan jade in Manchu 5,000bc
e962_1.jpg
Did this guy really put a real bird on his head during his adult life like this? I think they did before making their head to be elongated. As far as I know, a bird and a snake were God.

I think this indian is probably a shaman, b/c the bird on his head is a crow.

medicine-man.jpg
 
Spring 5-16-2011 A Molecular Anthropological Study of Altaian Histories Utilizing Population Genetics and Phylogeography Matthew Dulik University of Pennsylvania, [email protected]

It is generally believed that the Okunev was the material culture of indigenous Siberian groups moving into the region, possibly from the Baikal area, or from northwestern Siberia. Features of the Okunev were shared with the Samus culture, which is found in western Siberia, centered on the Tom River, and is contemporaneous with the Okunev (Kovtun, 2008). In a re-analysis of Okunev sites, Sokolova (2007) categorized the Okunev into four chronological stages. The earliest of these stages corresponds to a pre-Afanasievo period, which has similarities with Siberian Neolithic cultures. The second dates to a period contemporaneous with the Afanasievo, where the classical Okunev burials mentioned above can be found along with “hybrid” burials containing features of both cultural traditions. The third stage retained the cyst burial structure, but advances were made in the technology used to make ceramics. The final stage is characterized by ceramics similar to the Andronovo type (see discussion below). Thus, the Okunev tradition actually represents an indigenous culture that merged with the immigrant Afanasievo culture and subsequently developed along its own path (Sokolova, 2007).

Surely, okunevo started before 3,500bc and merged(????) with afanasievo, warlord people of yamna.

As part of a larger study on Scythian origins, it was consistently noted that Scythian groups had the closest affinities to the Okunev of Tuva (Kozintsev, 2007).
 
The Importance of the Okunev Culture

In the northern fringes of the steppe belt, I stressed the extreme importance of the Okunev Culture which had on the one hand connections with the Far East and, on the other, definite links with the south of Central Asia.
Meanwhile I discovered a group of petroglyphs in the Indus Valley, near Chilas, that is connected with the engravings of the Okunev Culture by the main motifs and stylistic peculiarities. In addition to one report on my findings (Jettmar 1982: 298-302), others are forthcoming. It is not improbable that during the third and early second millemmia B.C. there were relations over thousands of kilometers, perhaps due to migrations of cattle-keeping Early Nomads. Other connections leading in the same direction were observed by Stacul (1977:251-252) and the Allchins (1982:111-116).
Cultures and Ethnic Groups West of China in the Second and First Millennia B.C.

by Jettmar Karl
http://www.germananthropology.com/short-portrait/karl-jettmar/179

(Original print at Asian Perspectives, XXIV (2), 1981)
 
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Admixture results for Okunevo using D-stats. Looking at these results I think they were probably a East Asian-like, EHG/ANE, and Steppe mix. Afanesevo lived in the same region 1,000 years earlier and Okuenvo appears to have significant Afanesevo/Steppe ancestry.
distance=0.023985"




Okunevo
"Karelia_HG" 38.85
"Dai" 37.3
"AfontovaGora3" 12.25
"Kotias" 11.6
"MA1" 0
"Atayal" 0
"Anatolia_Neolithic" 0

distance=0.020374"




Okunevo
"Afanasievo" 29.2
"Atayal" 27.85
"Karelia_HG" 18.15
"AfontovaGora3" 15.85
"Dai" 8.95
"MA1" 0
"Andronovo" 0
 
Admixture results for Okunevo using D-stats. Looking at these results I think they were probably a East Asian-like, EHG/ANE, and Steppe mix. Afanesevo lived in the same region 1,000 years earlier and Okuenvo appears to have significant Afanesevo/Steppe ancestry.
distance=0.023985"




Okunevo
"Karelia_HG" 38.85
"Dai" 37.3
"AfontovaGora3" 12.25
"Kotias" 11.6
"MA1" 0
"Atayal" 0
"Anatolia_Neolithic" 0

distance=0.020374"




Okunevo
"Afanasievo" 29.2
"Atayal" 27.85
"Karelia_HG" 18.15
"AfontovaGora3" 15.85
"Dai" 8.95
"MA1" 0
"Andronovo" 0
I don't understand O% MA1

Capture2.png


Genetically, Malta is related to Okunevo,karasuk and iron age Altai(scythian). Except malta boy, it can be explained anthropologically also.

Interesting thing is the history of central asia at Bronze age.
1. Around 3,500bc, Afanasievo people (warlord yamna peope) merged with altai native Okunevo
2. Around 2,500bc smoothly Okunevo started
3. Around 2,000bc, Andronovo (related to Afanasievo) started
4. And Karasuk(related to Okunevo) started

Is there any evidence to fight each other?
looks like they were all one family but having different wives.
 
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Cultures and Ethnic Groups West of China in the Second and First Millennia B.C.

The Importance of the Okunev Culture

In the northern fringes of the steppe belt, I stressed the extreme importance of the Okunev Culture which had on the one hand connections with the Far East and, on the other, definite links with the south of Central Asia.
Meanwhile I discovered a group of petroglyphs in the Indus Valley, near Chilas, that is connected with the engravings of the Okunev Culture by the main motifs and stylistic peculiarities. In addition to one report on my findings (Jettmar 1982: 298-302), others are forthcoming. It is not improbable that during the third and early second millemmia B.C. there were relations over thousands of kilometers, perhaps due to migrations of cattle-keeping Early Nomads. Other connections leading in the same direction were observed by Stacul (1977:251-252) and the Allchins (1982:111-116).
Cultures and Ethnic Groups West of China in the Second and First Millennia B.C.

by Jettmar Karl


A highly noteworthy phenomenon is that during the first half of the secondmillennium BCE a number of metal cultures almost simultaneously flourished in the oases,valleys and basins around the Mongolian Steppe, including southern Siberia, Altai,northwestern and eastern Xinjiang, Gansu, Ordos and southwestern Manchuria. Metalweapons, tools and ornaments from these cultures bear striking similarities. In the case ofHuoshaogou, its bronze artifacts have reportedly shown a Uclear northern steppe style,"with its bone-handled bronze awls very similar to their counterparts found in the Okunevculture of the Minusinsk Basin, and its socketed axes also discovered in Ordos andsouthern Siberia (Li 1993: 105). The bronze and gold earrings from Huoshaogou, as wellas the same type of objects found along the Great Wall in north China, can be clearly7 Jidong Yan& "Siba: Bronze Age Culture of the Gansu Corridor"Sino-Platonic Papers~ 86 (October~ 1998)associated with Andronovo culture in Siberia (Bunker 1998: 607-611). It is also in thiscontext that Mei Jianjun and Colin Shell, in their recent study (1998), have suggested aquite detailed route of the eastward spread of Andronovo metallurgy through Xinjiang and Gansu.
China_Gansu.svg


near to Xian, where hundred of paramids are, and of course, First Qin Emperor (Qin Shi Huang,246 to 208 BC) pyramid is. I just called it "up-sidedown pyramid."

Bronze Age Culture of the Gansu Corridor
http://sino-platonic.org/complete/spp086_siba_bronze_age_gansu.pdf

Based on manycommon decorative elements of artifacts and archaeological findings unearthed from excavations ofarchaeological grave monuments in South Siberia and Altai mountain region Russian archaeologistsE.L.Novgorodova (1970, 1987, 1989) and V.V.Volkov (1967, 1981), Tsebyktarov (2006) noticed thatthe origin of Okuvev, Pazyryk, Tagar, Karasuk culture of South Siberia and Altai mountain regionhad some relations to Bronze Age Culture of Mongolia and Inner Mongolia and concluded thatduring the Bronze age period extensive cross regional migration taken place in South Siberia,Mongolia and North China.
Anthropology of Archaeological Populations fromNortheast Asia*

another interesting thing in this paper is that some mongoloid skull were found in the Afanasievo site. it means the afanasievo people lived together with mongoloids and paleo okunevo people. So afanasievo people were probably peace-makers, not warlords like their brother yamna people.
Craniofacial morphological study of human remains from Neolithic period of Altai mountain,Buryatia and Inner Mongolia China show great heterogeneity of morphological traits amongpopulations of the historic periods. Due to obtained craniofacial data the Neolithic Afanasevpopulation from Altai mountain characterize Caucasoid anthropological features while studied Neolithicpopulations from Inner Mongolia, Baikal lake region show typical mongoloid anthropological features.Nevertheless most taxonomic traits of some skulls from Kharagol site of Afanasev culture of Altaimountain demonstrate their mongoloid features. It may show that Neolithic Afanasev population fromAltai mountain anthropologically was heterogeneity which can be explained by migration ofmongoloid population from East Asia.
 
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just guess how the okunevo people look like:

Okunevo-figurine (big almond eyes)
inside_figurine_left.jpg


Hongshan jade in Manchu 5,000bc
e962_1.jpg


e962_3.jpg


And First one: maya, second one: axe for human sacrifice in shang (1,600bc) in china, third : shu culture(2,000bc) in sichuan of China. I think they were all ANE people.
Capture.png
I think the legengary nomad Xiuongnu/Hun inherited the eye shape from the ANE-related people.

image002.gif

http://xiongnu.atspace.com/art.htm

R1a-z93 and Q1a2 were found at the site of mongol bronze, when Chandman people lived, being classified to UP type by C Loring Brace. This chandman people is related to XioungNU (R1a, and Q1a2), finally to ancient Turk.

Results indicate the Xiongnu were potentially composed of at least two biologically distinct groups. Individuals from the elite cemetery of Borkhan Tolgoi (Egiin Gol) share their ancestry with a Bronze Age population from western Mongolia, and possibly, to a later migration of Turks, who came to rule the eastern steppe from the 6th to 8th centuries AD.
 
It's just a general view but I think the South Siberia was at first occuped by a transition type of humans with inter-"racial" features and lack of polarization before subsequent moves of pops where took part more defined 'europoid'("caucadoid")from West and more defined 'mongoloid' types from East; the 'europods' were the first to come to settle Altaic before 'mongoloids' from East came to mix with them first around Iron Age, and to overwhelm them after; just a bet - the new 'mongoloid' (well defined) people came from Northern China if I rely on some anthropological works, and were not the same as the former less defined autochtones of S-SIberia N-Altai. It's true these nuances do not appear so clearly in auDNA
it's a rough approach, there has been mixtures at individual levels since the beginning, and we see by auDNA that Iron Age people were very unlevel even in the same group.
 
Still I am not sure whether Bronze people in the steppe was a continuation of neolithic poeple in East Europe and siberia

Mesolithic populations from the Eastern Europe and Siberia: cranial shape analysis with the help of geometric morphometric methodology

Ekaterina Bulygina(1), Anna Rasskasova(1), Denis Pezhemski(1)

- Research Institute and Museum of Anthropology, Moscow State University, Russia

Several Mesolithic and early Neolithic populations dated to 10,000 – 6,000 years BC from Russia, Romania and Ukraine have been analysed by means of quantifying their 3D cranial shape. The whole sample comprised 85 individuals, including Mesolithic and Neolithic groups from Yuzhny Oleni Ostrov (Russia); Vasilievka, Voloshkoe and Vovnigi (Ukraine); Varasti (Romania); Itkul and Ust-Isha (South Siberia) and Locomotiv (East Siberia). A comparative set of modern populations was sampled to include representatives from Europe, Africa, Eastern Asia and (native) America. Apart from the standard geometric morphometric procedures, we cluster ordinated data to establish potential relationships between groups and use permutation of individual distances to establish the significance of the group differentiation. The method of analysis is first verified with the help of the modern populations that have varied geographical provenance. We establish that no cranial data, whether the face and the neurocranium are analysed together or separately, allow us to recover geographical relationships between the modern populations in our sample. Nevertheless, clusters that have been recovered with the help of the whole cranium data correspond well with the expected generic relationships between the sampled modern groups. As a result, we choose to analyse the shape of the complete cranium, where such is available, in fossil individuals as well. Our results highlight a high level of variation within Mesolithic and within Neolithic populations of the Eastern Europe and Siberia as compared with the pooled sample of the modern humans from different geographical locations worldwide. However, a certain structure among the analysed groups can still be revealed. The results suggest that Mesolithic groups from the Dnieper region have close morphological affinities with each other, while Yushny Oleni Ostrov have a large overlap with modern humans in general and with some of the mongoloid groups in particular. Neolithic groups are, on the whole, closer to modern populations than to the Mesolithic sample. At the same time, Siberian individuals show a complex pattern of morphological relationships which may be revealing of their genetic identity. On the whole, our results invite further discussion on the origins and affinities of the Eastern European Mesolithic and Early Neolithic groups as well as call for the research into the impact that the choice of data has on the results of 3D morphological analyses. Acknowledgements: This work has been supported by the grant of the Russian Foundation for Basic Research No № НК 13-06-00045.”
http://eurogenes.blogspot.ca/2015/09/cranial-affinities-of-mesolithic.html

Vs

Debetz (1936), and Alexeev and Gokhman (1987) identified a so-called CroMagnon variety among the Bronze and Iron Age skeletal materials of European Russia and southern Siberia. This variety that combined the cranial robustness with a broad face, had its roots in the local Upper Palaeolithic

Moreover, Giants warroior were together with those paleo-typed people. Was Giants found before Bronze?
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/33566-Was-Afontova-Gora-an-ancestor-of-Afanasievo-yamna-or-not



In terms of cranial morphology, the Afanasyev people were very similar to those associated with the synchronous Pit-grave (Yamnaya) culture of the Russian Plain. Two hypothesis have been advanced to explain the origin of the Afanasyev population. In early studies, the morphological similarity between the Afanasyev and Pit-grave people was explained by a large-scale migration of Caucasoids from Eastern Europe to Southern Siberia and Easter Central Asia (Debetz, 1948; Alexeyev, 1961). Later, Alexeyev (1989: 350 – 355) discussed another possibility: the Afanasyev people had independently descended from an early Caucasoid population whose homeland was the eastern part of the Eurasian steppe belt.
=V.P. Alekseyev (Валерий Павлович Алексеев) was the most considerable Soviet anthropologist. His books is the fundamental literature and curriculum in many Eurasian country

CRANIOMETRIC EVIDENCE OF THE EARLY CAUCASOID MIGRATIONS TO SIBERIA AND EASTERN CENTRAL ASIA, WITH REFERENCE TO THE INDO-EUROPEAN PROBLEM Article (PDF Available) in Archaeology Ethnology and Anthropology of Eurasia 37(4):125-136 · December 2009

Nor are these affi nities shown by the Afanasyev people disregarding isolated Central and Western European ties of Saldyar and Afanasyeva Gora. Despite this, the ties of the Afanasyev groups with the early and late Catacomb are distributed approximately evenly. The general conclusion is rather modest: Afanasyev roots apparently lie in Eastern European steppes and forest-steppes, but relating them to a specific culture is impossible.

Debets describes the people of Afanasievo 4) as being very tall and strong.The skull shows a pronounced dolichocephaly, very prominent nasal bones, a ratherlow face, low orbits, and a very broad forehead. All these characteristics makethe Afanasievo people very different from the former inhabitants of Cisbaikaliaand probably of all people of the Siberian taiga. They show that we find hereEuropoide types which are somewhat different from the modern representatives ofthat race. Many features, especially the broad face, remind us of the Cromagnontype.
http://archiv.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/propylaeumdok/1541/1/Jettmar_The_Karasuk_culture_1950.pdf
 
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A paleogenetic study of the prehistoric populations of the Altai(2015)

One of the most noteworthy findings of our study is that prehistoric peoples of the Altai-Sayan region mostly display Western Eurasian mtDNA haplotypes of haplogroups H and U5, which are distributed in Western Siberia and Europe, whereas modern natives of that region are characterized by the predominance of Eastern Eurasian haplogroups (Gubina et al., 2006)

--> clearly this H entered Korea 7,000y ago
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/33545-Vinca-culture-and-shaman-culture (#2)


Craniometrically, prehistoric populations of Gorny Altai are mostly intermediate between Mongoloid and Caucasoid populations. Genetically, individuals from Neolithic and Bronze Age burials display only Western Eurasian mtDNA haplotypes.
The morphological trait combination that is predominant among the Pazyryk(scythian) tribes appears to be autochthonous and probably derives from the Neolithic population of Gorny Altai and from people associated with an Okunev-type culture (Karakol).

- And "here it seems like IA Steppe people/Scythians held a lot similarities to Yamnaya":
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/33009-Iron-Age-Steppes-people-supposed-Iranics-on-a-PCA?p=502283

- afanasievo people lived in Gorny Altai and looks like scythian followed the afanasievo tradition of elognated skull also.

- everything was really and really complicate in Gorny Altai: the whole family or sleeping with the enemy
 
- everything was really and really complicate in Gorny Altai: the whole family or sleeping with the enemy

Afanasievo: Without a trail?
"The question that persists is thus; where is the Afanasievo trail from Yamanaya through to the Urals and their final archaeological seat in South Siberia? Why have none of the Baraba forest-steppe cultures shown any indication of influence, be it cultural or anthropological, of Caucasoid pastoral nomads before those of Andronovo?"
http://vaedhya.blogspot.ca/2012/07/secrets-of-central-asia-chapter-ii.html

-Frachetti's Pastoralist Landscapes and Social Interaction in Bronze Age Eurasia clarifies the material culture and mode of living in Central Asia during the Bronze Age;

The calibrated C14 dates of Afanas'evo material are generally slightly earlier than those taken from Yamnaya contexts in the western steppe, which complicates a diffusionist explanation of the emergence of pastoralists in the eastern steppe. Although their origins may be obscure, communities associated with Afanas'evo materials still represent the earliest mobile pastoralists east of the Ural Mountains... [their] incipient strategy of cattle and sheep/goat herding, supplemented by hunting and fishing.
The Afanas'evo subsistence economy might best be characterized as a mixed or transitional form between hunting/fishing and localized pastoralism, arising from local antecedents or combining native strategies with diffused domestic innovations among local populations.
...Perhaps the strongest evidence that divides the Yamnaya and Afanas'evo pastoralists in the mid-fourth millenium BCE is the discontinuity of pastoral economic strategies among societies living between these territories." [6]

and
In summary, current evidence suggests that the knowledge of smelting copper waswidespread, though rare and sporadic, across Eurasia during the third millennium BC in arange of socio-cultural contexts. Some of the societies familiar with metal processing, suchas Longshan, were settled and had evidence of incipient complexity. Nomadic pastoralistslike the Afanasievo exploited at a low intensity the copper ores in southern Siberia. Other societies, such as those in Karelia, in the forest and forest-steppe zones of northern Eurasia,and the Surtandy culture of the eastern Urals, demonstrate that relatively non-complex societies, including settled hunter-fishers, or smaller mobile groups, could mine and smeltcopper and produce simple tools and ornaments when close to ore sources (Chernykh 1992,p. 187)

U2e-U4-U5region.png


Ust-Tartas (4000-3000 B.C.)
several Ust-Tartas burial grounds with more than 150 graves have been excavated, some of of which revealed the presence of bronze adornments
The inhabitants of the earliest grave-containing Baraba prehistoric culture appeared to be Caucasoid-Mongoloid hybrids based on anthropological data whose distribution spanned the swathe of forest from Karelia and the Baltic through to the Ural region. Numerous Russian sources have previously described this concept as the Northern Eurasian Anthropological Formation (e.g. Bunak V.V.). Additionally, a comparison with the nearby Comb-pit Ware culture revealed enough anthropological similarities to suggest the individuals of Ust-Tartas were likely to be autochthonous and not recent migrants.
Molodin VI, Pilipenko AS, Romaschenko AG, Zhuravlev AA, Trapezov RO. Human migrations in the southern region of the West Siberian Plain during the Bronze Age: Archaeological, palaeogenetic and anthropological data. 2012.

==> my last question is why David Anthony tried to connect Afanasievo to Repin by botai horse riding culture.
He thought that Botai culture played a great role to the migration from west to East. However, there would be no horse bit in Botai culture, considering Okunevo artifact in Post #1.
 
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PLoS One. 2015; 10(5): e0127182.
Published online 2015 May 7. doi: 10.1371/journal.pone.0127182

MtDNA Haplogroup A10 Lineages in Bronze Age Samples Suggest That Ancient Autochthonous Human Groups Contributed to the Specificity of the Indigenous West Siberian Population

Aleksandr S. Pilipenko,1,2,3,* Rostislav O. Trapezov,1,2Anton A. Zhuravlev,1,2 Vyacheslav I. Molodin,2,3 andAida G. Romaschenko1

The craniometric specificity of the indigenous West Siberian human populations cannot be completely explained by the genetic interactions of the western and eastern Eurasian groups recorded in the archaeology of the area from the beginning of the 2nd millennium BC. Anthropologists have proposed another probable explanation: contribution to the genetic structure of West Siberian indigenous populations by ancient human groups, which separated from western and eastern Eurasian populations before the final formation of their phenotypic and genetic features and evolved independently in the region over a long period of time. This hypothesis remains untested. From the genetic point of view, it could be confirmed by the presence in the gene pool of indigenous populations of autochthonous components that evolved in the region over long time periods. The detection of such components, particularly in the mtDNA gene pool, is crucial for further clarification of early regional genetic history.

Results and Conclusion
We present the results of analysis of mtDNA samples (n = 10) belonging to the A10 haplogroup, from Bronze Age populations of West Siberian forest-steppe (V—I millennium BC), that were identified in a screening study of a large diachronic sample (n = 96). A10 lineages, which are very rare in modern Eurasian populations, were found in all the Bronze Age groups under study. Data on the A10 lineages’ phylogeny and phylogeography in ancient West Siberian and modern Eurasian populations suggest that A10 haplogroup underwent a long-term evolution in West Siberia or arose there autochthonously; thus, the presence of A10 lineages indicates the possible contribution of early autochthonous human groups to the genetic specificity of modern populations, in addition to contributions of later interactions of western and eastern Eurasian populations.







 
Kristiina said...Excluding extinct lineages, U4 and U5a should be among the oldest western Eurasian mtdna’s in Siberia. U4 and U5 were both found in Karelia (c. 5000 BC) and U5 in the Baikal area (c. Lokomotiv, 5000 BC). Also the Western Siberian Ust Tartas (Sopka) culture (c. 4000-3000 BC) is interesting in this respect. This culture’s mtDNA’s are divided between East and West Eurasian haplogroups: D4, C1, A, Z and U2e, U5a1, U4. According to Kozintsev’s cranial analysis, Siberian Okunev and Sopka people were intermediate between Siberian Caucasoids and Amerindians.

So Ust-Tartas(sopka) and okunevo were probably same people, regarding the above Northern Eurasian Anthropological Formation.
 

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