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Tomenable
01-02-17, 12:46
PL_N17 from Gustorzyn, Early Bronze Age Poland, ca. 1953-1880 BC:

http://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/data/view/SAMN04633627

According to Vladimir Tagankin, his Y-DNA haplogroup was R1a-Z280.

This is the oldest R1a-Z280 found so far, and the only Early BA one.

Red arrow shows Gustorzyn:

http://s29.postimg.org/3u08ko2rb/screenshot_134.png

bicicleur
01-02-17, 18:41
http://eurogenes.blogspot.be/2017/01/r1a-z280-from-early-bronze-age-northern.html

R1a-Z280 today shows very high frequencies (>50%) and relatively high SNP diversity in Northern Poland. This is a strong argument for genetic continuity in Northern Poland since the Early Bronze Age.

The analysis was run by Vladimir Tagankin from YFull (https://www.yfull.com/), who, I'm told, is also pretty sure that PL_N17 falls under SNP R-S24902 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-S24902/).

Interestingly, R-S24902 is an extremely rare marker that currently appears to be most common in Northwestern Europe. But I'd say that there are two very good reasons for this: 1) most Y-chromosomes tested at this sort of level are from Northwestern Europe and 2) today Northwestern Europe shows higher genetic diversity than Eastern Europe. So I expect this pattern to be repeated for many other high resolution ancient Y-chromosome samples from Central and Eastern Europe.


http://polishgenes.blogspot.be/2015/05/r1a1a-from-early-bronze-age-warrior.html

Ancient DNA tests on a skeleton from an Early Bronze Age "warrior" grave near Hrubieszow, southeastern Poland, have revealed that the remains belong to Y-haplogroup R1a1a [source (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?3732-Reconstruction-and-possibly-a-genetic-analysis-in-the-future-of-4-000YBP-Pole&p=82547&viewfull=1#post82547)].

Mitochondrial sequences were also obtained from seven other samples from the same burial site, and assigned to mt-haplogroups H1a, H1b (two), H2a (two), H6 and U5b1.

R1a1a is by far the most frequent Y-haplogroup in Poland today, and its presence in the remains from a high-status burial might be a clue as to how it became so common in East-Central Europe.

Interestingly, the site is classified as part of the Strzyżow Culture, which is considered by Polish archaeologists to be the result of contacts between local communities in southeastern Poland and Kurgan newcomers from the North Pontic steppe.

kingjohn
02-02-17, 16:39
http://eurogenes.blogspot.co.il/2017/02/first-look-at-polish-early-bronze-age.html
regards
Adam

Fire Haired14
02-02-17, 17:47
Genetically he is like Corded Ware. Much more Steppe than modern Poles, less EEF and WHG than modern Poles.

LeBrok
02-02-17, 18:09
Genetically he is like Corded Ware. Much more Steppe than modern Poles, less EEF and WHG than modern Poles.
Exactly what I discovered too. A genetic continuity in Poland through all Bronze Age. I think, it stops somewhere in Iron Age when population turns more like modern genome. Less Baloch and more Caucasian admixture. I also found ancient two genomes which mixed together give Polish Unetice. One I think is h-g, I think, who wasn't identified yet as such. I will post it in a new thread tomorrow.

Angela
02-02-17, 18:52
The poster Michal provides the most logical and persuasive analysis, in my opinion, as usual.

Fire Haired14
02-02-17, 19:25
Exactly what I discovered too. A genetic continuity in Poland through all Bronze Age. I think, it stops somewhere in Iron Age when population turns more like modern genome. Less Baloch and more Caucasian admixture. I also found ancient two genomes which mixed together give Polish Unetice. One I think is h-g, I think, who wasn't identified yet as such. I will post it in a new thread tomorrow.

By 2000 BC everyone in Eastern Europe had a big chunk of R1a and Steppe and EEF and WHG ancestry. Therefore Poles' ancestors could have been living all over Eastern Europe. Yes people in Poland were simiar to modern Poles in 2000 BC but that doesn't mean they were modern Poles's primary or important ancestors.

Tomenable
02-02-17, 19:57
Genetically he is like Corded Ware. Much more Steppe than modern Poles, less EEF and WHG

Yes, certainly he has less EEF and more Steppe than modern Poles.

This is why he clusters to the North-East and to the East of Poles.

GEDmatch results:

PL_N17, Early Bronze Age Poland (Gustorzyn), 1953-1880 BC:

1) MDLP World calculator:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_and_East_European 46.88
2 South_and_West_European 35.98
3 Caucaus_Parsia 14.94
4 Arctic_Amerind 1.41
5 Indian 0.53
6 Sub_Saharian 0.19
7 Paleo_African 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Latvian_V 6.86
2 Ukrainian_V 7.39
3 Ukrainian-Center 7.61
4 Ukrainian-West 7.89
5 Ukrainian-East 8.57
6 Russian_South 9.13
7 German 9.24
8 Sorb 9.34
9 Ukrainian 9.41
10 Slovakian 9.45
11 Russian_cossack 9.72
12 Mordovian_V 10.04
13 Belarusian_V 10.21
14 German-North 10.25
15 Czech 10.6
16 Polish_V 10.71
17 Croatian_V 10.96
18 Russian_V 11.2
19 Swedish_V 11.22
20 Swedish 11.7

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 83.1% Belarusian_V + 16.9% Avar @ 3.1
2 82.4% Polish_V + 17.6% Avar @ 3.16
3 83.2% Belarusian_V + 16.8% Lak @ 3.25
4 84.5% Sorb + 15.5% Avar @ 3.26
5 82.5% Polish_V + 17.5% Lak @ 3.28
6 82.9% Belarusian_V + 17.1% Tabassaran @ 3.34
7 82.1% Polish_V + 17.9% Tabassaran @ 3.42
8 84.7% Sorb + 15.3% Lak @ 3.47
9 84.4% Sorb + 15.6% Tabassaran @ 3.5
10 82.8% Polish_V + 17.2% Lezgin @ 3.58
11 83.6% Belarusian_V + 16.4% Lezgin @ 3.59
12 87.3% Russian_South + 12.7% Abhkasian @ 3.64
13 83.5% Polish + 16.5% Abhkasian @ 3.64
14 82.3% Polish_V + 17.7% Chechen @ 3.74
15 85.1% Sorb + 14.9% Lezgin @ 3.85
16 85.2% Polish_V + 14.8% Abhkasian @ 3.86
17 83.1% Belarusian_V + 16.9% Chechen @ 3.89
18 88% Ukrainian-Center + 12% Avar @ 3.93
19 83.4% Polish_V + 16.6% Ossetian @ 3.94
20 80.9% Polish + 19.1% Avar @ 3.98

2) PuntDNAL K15 calculator:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE_European 67.29
2 Mediterranean 18.06
3 Caucasian 12.33
4 Amerindian 1.21
5 Siberian 1.11

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Belarusian 6.94
2 Polish 7.81
3 Russian 7.85
4 Karelian 8.12
5 Mordovian 9.15
6 Lithuanian 9.18
7 Finnish 9.77
8 Swedish 10.37
9 North_German 12.58
10 Norwegian 12.67
11 Slovenian 12.99
12 Austrian 13.97
13 Hungarian 14.12
14 Scottish 14.23
15 Irish 14.49
16 Orcadian 14.65
17 English 15.55
18 Croatian 15.73
19 Utahn_White 18.56
20 South_German 19.19

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 89.9% Lithuanian + 10.1% Georgian @ 3.7
2 89.3% Lithuanian + 10.7% Abkhasian @ 3.89
3 86.8% Lithuanian + 13.2% Lezgin @ 3.91
4 87.6% Lithuanian + 12.4% North_Ossetian @ 3.93
5 87.2% Lithuanian + 12.8% Balkar @ 4.08
6 86.3% Lithuanian + 13.7% Chechen @ 4.1
7 87.3% Lithuanian + 12.7% Kumyk @ 4.26
8 88.6% Lithuanian + 11.4% Turk_Istanbul @ 4.61
9 91.4% Belarusian + 8.6% Lezgin @ 4.66
10 89.7% Lithuanian + 10.3% Turk_Trabzon @ 4.84
11 93.7% Belarusian + 6.3% Georgian @ 4.85
12 93.4% Belarusian + 6.6% Abkhasian @ 4.91
13 89.4% Lithuanian + 10.6% Armenian @ 4.92
14 92.3% Belarusian + 7.7% North_Ossetian @ 4.92
15 91.4% Belarusian + 8.6% Chechen @ 4.93
16 92.1% Belarusian + 7.9% Balkar @ 4.97
17 89.2% Lithuanian + 10.8% Azerbaijani @ 5.03
18 86.9% Lithuanian + 13.1% Nogai @ 5.03
19 88.5% Lithuanian + 11.5% Turk_Kayseri @ 5.07
20 88.9% Lithuanian + 11.1% Kurdish @ 5.09

Tomenable
02-02-17, 20:02
The poster Michal provides the most logical and persuasive analysis, in my opinion, as usual.Not really. There are ~100,000 British-Irish customers in FTDNA, compared to maybe ~4,000 Polish.

This gives you some idea why there are more English people with this subclade than Polish, among customers of FTDNA. Even if there are just 8 Poles and 100 Brits with this subclade in FTDNA, this is still 0,2% of Poles and only 0,1% of Brits.

And I'm sure the odds are much more even than 100 : 8.

The same situation applies to every other subclade. For example my own subclade of R1b, DF27>L617, is mostly found in Britain according to FTDNA, but this is because Brits are so overrepresented among FTDNA customers in general.

Tomenable
02-02-17, 20:19
R1b1b found in Mesolithic Latvia:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/33520-R1b-found-in-Mesolithic-Hunter-Gatherer-in-Latvia?p=500826&viewfull=1#post500826

Tomenable
02-02-17, 22:48
Davidski modeled PL_N17 as:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?8066-DISCUSSION-THREAD-FOR-quot-Genetic-Genealogy-and-Ancient-DNA-in-the-News-quot&p=211240&viewfull=1#post211240

Yamnaya_Samara 0.677
Lengyel_LN 0.252
Western_HG 0.065
Nganasan 0.006

Or in another model:

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/02/first-look-at-polish-early-bronze-age.html

Yamnaya_Samara 0.687±0.040
Lengyel_LN 0.249±0.037
Western_HG 0.064±0.028

Yamnaya_Samara 61.9
Lengyel_LN:I1495 25.6
Western_HG 12.6

More about Lengyel sample I1495 can be found here:

http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/europeanneolithicdna.shtml



Lengyel
Hungary
Apc-Berekalja I [I1495/NE 7]
M
4490-4360 BC

I2a

N1a1a1a

Tomenable
03-02-17, 01:25
PL_N17 has around 50 matches with modern people in GEDmatch, according to Diagnostic Utility:


has approximately 50 total matches with other kits. Of these matches there are 10 >= 7cM and 40 < 7cM.

Batch processing has not yet completed, so it is impossible to check who are these modern people.

LeBrok
03-02-17, 03:18
PL_N17 from Gustorzyn, Early Bronze Age Poland, ca. 1953-1880 BC:

http://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/data/view/SAMN04633627

According to Vladimir Tagankin, his Y-DNA haplogroup was R1a-Z280.

This is the oldest R1a-Z280 found so far, and the only Early BA one.

Red arrow shows Gustorzyn:

What is his Gedmatch kit number?

Tomenable
03-02-17, 03:28
PuntDNAL K12 Ancient results for PL_N17 (Early Bronze Age Poland):

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 European_HG 46.39
2 Caucasus_HG 29.52
3 Anatolian_NF 22.02
4 Beringian 0.86
5 Amerindian 0.69
6 Oceanian 0.33
7 Sub-Saharan 0.2

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Srubnaya_I0232 2.74
2 Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386 3.19
3 Sintashta_MBA_RISE395 4.03
4 Corded_Ware_Germany_I0104 4.82
5 Corded_Ware_Germany_I0103 4.85
6 Srubnaya_I0430 6.41
7 Andronovo_SG_RISE505 7.27
8 Potapovka_I0419 7.41
9 Corded_Ware_Estonia_RISE00 7.54
10 BattleAxe_Sweden_SG_RISE94 9.16
11 Bell_Beaker_Czech_RISE569 11.71
12 Bell_Beaker_Germany_I1549 11.73
13 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN_I0059 12.02
14 Unetice_EBA_I0117 12.91
15 Halberstadt_LBA_I0099 13.1
16 Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97 13.16
17 Alberstedt_LN_I0118 14.99
18 Yamnaya_Samara_I0443 15.82
19 Scythian_IA_I0247 17.39
20 Afanasievo_SG_RISE511 19.29

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 94.3% Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386 + 5.7% Hungary_HG_I1507 @ 2.02
2 94.4% Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386 + 5.6% Bichon @ 2.06
3 57.7% Srubnaya_I0232 + 42.3% Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386 @ 2.11
4 83.4% Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386 + 16.6% Bell_Beaker_Germany_I1549 @ 2.21
5 83.9% Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386 + 16.1% BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN_I0059 @ 2.24
6 95.9% Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386 + 4.1% Karelia_HG_I0061 @ 2.3
7 76.6% Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386 + 23.4% Corded_Ware_Estonia_RISE00 @ 2.32
8 95.6% Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386 + 4.4% Iberia_Mesolithic_I0585 @ 2.32
9 92.2% Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386 + 7.8% Vatya_SG_RISE479 @ 2.38
10 92.6% Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386 + 7.4% Hungary_BA_I1502 @ 2.39
11 96.8% Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386 + 3.2% Loschbour_SG @ 2.49
12 96.8% Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386 + 3.2% LaBrana @ 2.49
13 96.8% Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386 + 3.2% Motala12 @ 2.49
14 68.9% Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386 + 31.1% Corded_Ware_Germany_I0103 @ 2.6
15 79.2% Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386 + 20.8% Potapovka_I0419 @ 2.62
16 92.8% Srubnaya_I0232 + 7.2% BattleAxe_Sweden_SG_RISE94 @ 2.66
17 63.1% Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386 + 36.9% Sintashta_MBA_RISE395 @ 2.66
18 99.3% Srubnaya_I0232 + 0.7% Satsurblia_SATP @ 2.68
19 88.1% Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386 + 11.9% Unetice_EBA_I0117 @ 2.7
20 99.3% Srubnaya_I0232 + 0.7% Kotias_Kide_KK @ 2.7


What is his Gedmatch kit number?

Check your PM box.

LeBrok
03-02-17, 04:39
By 2000 BC everyone in Eastern Europe had a big chunk of R1a and Steppe and EEF and WHG ancestry. Some of CW are very different, like still pure hunter gatherers.


M913021
Rise00



Corded Estonia,
4 kya



Run Time
8.05



S-Indian
-



Baloch
14.27



Caucasian
-



NE-Euro
59.09



SE-Asian
-



Siberian
0.8



NE-Asian
-



Papuan
-



American
-



Beringian
-



Mediterranean
25.26



SW-Asian
-



San
-



E-African
-



Pygmy
-



W-African
0.5











Yes people in Poland were simiar to modern Poles in 2000 BC but that doesn't mean they were modern Poles's primary or important ancestors.
I agree. This is my genome and the BA dude. On general level we are close, but he wouldn't fit exactly in any country of NE Europe these days.



PL_N17, R1a-Z280





Poland, Gustorzyn
1.9kya

Modern Polish



Run time
10.7

Run time
20.5


S-Indian
-

S-Indian
0.62


Baloch
15.97

Baloch
7.47


Caucasian
5.67

Caucasian
10.05


NE-Euro
58.43

NE-Euro
57.28


SE-Asian
-

SE-Asian
0.54


Siberian
-

Siberian
1.22


NE-Asian
-

NE-Asian
0.35


Papuan
-

Papuan
-


American
0.72

American
-


Beringian
-

Beringian
0.07


Mediterranean
18.91

Mediterranean
21.53


SW-Asian
-

SW-Asian
0.86


San
-

San
-


E-African
-

E-African
-


Pygmy
-

Pygmy
-


W-African
0.3

W-African
-

Tomenable
06-02-17, 20:29
IBS sharing between me and Poland_EBA according to Interpretome:

http://esquilax.stanford.edu

http://i.imgur.com/hwplX8g.png

I used my FTDNA raw data converted to 23andMe format by DNA Land.

Tomenable
06-02-17, 21:43
I'm more closely related to PL_N17 than: Nick, Konrad, Church, Noah, Rob & Stuart:

http://i.imgur.com/oj86oNW.png

They are individuals from "Preset comparisons":


Preset comparisons
Teaching Staff of Gene 210, Spring 2011
George Church
Custom comparisons
PL_N17
Tomenable