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View Full Version : from western Yamna to Europe : a I2a2 + R1b-M269 joined venture ?



bicicleur
08-02-17, 15:34
Many believe haplo I were HG who at some point assimilated with EEF to adopt farming.
Not so for I2a2 it seems to me.
I checked all anciant DNA with I2a2 up to 3 ka.
I found all 3 branches were represented : I2a2a1 + I2a2a2 + I2a2b.
None were farmers.
They all are in cultures which could be Yamnaya-derived and often along with R1b-M269 or possible R1b-M269.

Here is the list :



I2a2 + R1b-M269


08/02/17




































Dnjepr rapids HG












HG
Ukraine
Dnjepr Rapids


10,8 ka
> I2a2a-M223




Ukraine_HG1 Mesolithic I2a2a-M223 calls (https://genetiker.wordpress.com/y-snp-calls-for-ukraine_hg1/)




Yamnaya Samara/Kalmykia












Yamnaya Samara
Russia
Lopatino I, Sok River, Samara [I0429/SVP 38]
M
3339-2917 BC
R1b1a2a2* (Z2103)
Z2105+, L23+, L150+, M269+, L584-
T2c1a2
Haak 2015 (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/bibliography.shtml#Haak2015); Mathieson 2015; Sergey Malyshev (https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1b-basal-subclades/about/background)




Yamnaya Kalmykia
Russia
Peshany V [RISE550]
M
3334-2635 BC
R1b1a2
PF6399, M520, L773, PF6430, PF6434, PF6438, CTS8728, PF6497, PF6500;
Malyshev reads R1b1a2a2 (Z8129/Y12537 equivalent Z2103)
U5a1i
Allentoft 2015 (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/bibliography.shtml#Allentoft2015); Mathieson 2015; additional info from Sergey Malyshev (https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1b-basal-subclades/about/background)




Yamnaya Samara
Russia
Lopatino I, Sok River, Samara [I0439/ SVP 52]
M
3305-2925 BC
R1b1a2
PF6434, PF6475, L1353, M173+, M343 equivalent CTS910/ FGC66 /PF6244+; P297+, M269 equivalent CTS12478/ PF6529+, L51-, L584-, Y4370- M12147-, 14168106(A/G)+
U5a1a1
Haak 2015; Mathieson 2015; Sergey Malyshev (https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1b-basal-subclades/about/background)




Yamnaya Upper Ural river
Russia
Ishkinovka I, Eastern Orenburg, Pre-Ural steppe, Samara [I0370/SVP 10]
M
3300-2700 BC
R1b1a2a2 (Z2103)
CTS1078+, M269+, L150+, L320+
H13a1a1a
Haak 2015; Mathieson 2015; Sergey Malychev (https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1b-basal-subclades/about/background)




Yamnaya Samara
Russia
Lopatino II, Sok River, Samara [I0443/ SVP 57]
M
3300-2700 BC
R1b1a2a* (L23)
L49+, L23+, PF6399+, L150+, L1353+, PF6509+, M269+, CTS12478+, L51-, Z2105-
W3a1a
Haak 2015; Mathieson 2015; Sergey Malychev (https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1b-basal-subclades/about/background)




Yamnaya Samara
Russia
Kutuluk I, Kutuluk River, Samara [I0444/SVP 58]
M
3300-2700 BC
R1b1a2a2 (Z2103)
CTS1078/Z2103+, L150+, M415+
H6a1b
Haak 2015; Mathieson 2015; Sergey Malychev (https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1b-basal-subclades/about/background)




Yamnaya Samara
Russia
Luzhki I, Samara River, Samara [I0438/SVP 50]
M
3021-2635 BC
R1b1a2a2* (Z2103)
Z2105+, L23+, L320+, L584-, CTS7822-
U5a1a1
Haak 2015; ; Mathieson 2015; Sergey Malychev (https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1b-basal-subclades/about/background)




Yamnaya Samara
Russia
Ekaterinovka, Southern Steppe, Samara [I0231/SVP 3]
M
2910-2875 BC
R1b1a2a2 + KMS75
CTS1078+, Z2105+, S20902+, M343+, L754/ PF6269/ YSC22+, P297 equivalent FGC57+, M269+ (+ same level PF6399+, PF6434+, PF6482+, , L150.1+, L265+), L23+, CTS1078/ Z2103+ (+ same level Z2105+), L584-, KMS75+
U4a1a or U4a1d
Haak 2015; Mathieson 2015; Sergey Malyshev (https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1b-basal-subclades/about/background)




Yamnaya Kalmykia
Russia
Temrta IV [RISE546]
M


R1b1a2
PF6482
U5a1d2b
Allentoft 2015 (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/bibliography.shtml#Allentoft2015); Mathieson 2015




Yamnaya Kalmykia
Russia
Temrta IV [RISE547]
M
2887- 2634 BC
R1b1a2
L482, L483, PF6438, L150.1, F1794, CTS8728, L1353, PF6495, PF6497;
Malyshev reads R1b1a2a2 (CTS9416) + Z2106 downstream on Y-Full tree (http://yfull.com/tree/R1b/)
T2a1a
Allentoft 2015 (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/bibliography.shtml#Allentoft2015); Mathieson 2015; additional info from Sergey Malyshev (https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1b-basal-subclades/about/background)




Yamnaya Kalmykia
Russia
Temrta IV [RISE548]
M


R1b1a2a2
Z2105
U4
Allentoft 2015 (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/bibliography.shtml#Allentoft2015); Mathieson 2015




Yamnaya Kalmykia
Russia
Sukhaya Termista I [RISE240]
F
2880-2632 BC




U5a1d1
Allentoft 2015 (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/bibliography.shtml#Allentoft2015)




Early Bronze Age Wolgograd
Russia
Stalingrad Quarry [RISE555]
M
2857-2497 BC
R1b1a2
PF6399, PF6409, PF6434, CTS623; Malyshev reads R1b1a2a2 (CTS7340/Z2107) + downstream Z2106 onYFull tree (http://yfull.com/tree/R1b/)
N1a1a+152
Allentoft 2015 (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/bibliography.shtml#Allentoft2015); Mathieson 2015; additional info from Sergey Malyshev (https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1b-basal-subclades/about/background)




Yamnaya / Catacomb Kalmykia
Russia
Ulan IV, kurgan 4, grave 8 [RISE552]
M
2849-2146 BC
I2a2a1b1b
L699; Malyshev reads I2a2a1b1b2 (S12195)
T2a1a
Allentoft 2015 (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/bibliography.shtml#Allentoft2015); Mathieson 2015; additional info from Sergey Malyshev and Felix Immanuel




Iberian Chalc / pré-BB














Spain
El Portalón, Sierra de Atapuerca [ATP 3]
M
5466-5312 cal BP
Genetiker : R1b-M269 xZ2110


K1a2b
Günther 2015 (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/bibliography.shtml#Gunter2015)

ATP3 Pre-Beaker Copper Age 3516–3362 BC R1b1a1a2-M269 calls (https://genetiker.wordpress.com/y-snp-calls-for-atp3/)




Spain
El Portalón, Sierra de Atapuerca [ATP12-1420]
M
4960-4829 cal BP
I2a2a


H3c
Günther 2015 (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/bibliography.shtml#Gunter2015)




Pre-Beaker Copper Age
Spain
Matojo El Portalón cave in the Atapuerca


3010–2879 BC
I2a2a2-S23680




Matojo Pre-Beaker Copper Age 3010–2879 BC I2a2a2-S23680 calls (https://genetiker.wordpress.com/y-snp-calls-for-matojo/)






Spain
El Mirador, Burgos [I0581/MIR 5 and 6]
M
2880-2630 BC
I2a2a1
CTS616
X2b
Gómez-Sánchez 2014 (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/bibliography.shtml#Gomez-Sanchez2014); Mathieson 2015






Spain
El Mirador, Burgos [I1274/MIR 11]
M
2880-2630 BC
I2a2
L181
H3
Gómez-Sánchez 2014 (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/bibliography.shtml#Gomez-Sanchez2014); Mathieson 2015






Spain
El Mirador, Burgos [I1277/MIR 14]
M
2880-2630 BC
I2a2a
P221
H3
Mathieson 2015




Vucedol




















Vucedol
Hungary
Lánycsók, Csata-alja [M6-116.8]


2860-2620 BC
R1b
M343+
T2b23
Szécsényi-Nagy 2015 thesis (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/bibliography.shtml#Szecsenyi-Nagy2015)




Vucedol
Hungary
Lánycsók, Csata-alja [M6-116.10]


2860-2620 BC
I2a2a
M223+
H5
Szécsényi-Nagy 2015 thesis (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/bibliography.shtml#Szecsenyi-Nagy2015)




Unetice




















Unetice
Germany
Esperstedt [I0114/ESP 2]
M
2131-1979 BC
I2a2b
L368+, L181+, P218+, P217+, M438+, L34-, P223-, M223-, [L39+]
I3a
Adler 2012; Brandt 2013; Haak 2015; Mathieson 2015; [Additional info on SNP L39 from Hans De Beule and Atanas Kumbarov]




Vatya/Wieslburg




















Vatya
Hungary
Erd 4 [RISE479]
M


I2a2a1a2a
L1229
T2b
Allentoft 2015 (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/bibliography.shtml#Allentoft2015); Mathieson 2015




Gáta/Wieslburg
Hungary
M85 Enese elkerül? 02. Kóny, Proletár-d?l? II [KON 6]


1770-1760 BC
R1b1a2
M269
U5b1
Szécsényi-Nagy 2015 thesis (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/bibliography.shtml#Szecsenyi-Nagy2015)




Vatya
Hungary
Szazhalombatta-Foldvar [RISE247]
M
1746-1611 BC
I2a2a1
CTS9183
H11a
Allentoft 2015 (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/bibliography.shtml#Allentoft2015); Mathieson 2015




Urnfield Lichtenstein Cave












Urnfield
Germany
Halberstadt [I0099/HAL 36]
M
1113-1021 BC
R1a1a1b1a2
(Z280)
S204+, S198+, PF6217+
H23
Brandt 2013; Haak 2015; Mathieson 2015




Urnfield
Germany
Lichtenstein Cave (http://www.hoehlen-erlebnis-zentrum.de/), near Dorste, Lower Saxony [M1, M2, M7]
M
1000 BC
I2a2b
Ii in table 2 (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/adnastr.shtml); Z5REF (http://www.ysearch.org/search_view.asp?uid=&viewuid=Z5REF&p=0) in Ysearch
H
Schilz 2006 (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/bibliography.shtml#Schilz2006)




Urnfield
Germany
Lichtenstein Cave [M3, M6]
M
1000 BC
I2a2b
Iii in table 2 (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/adnastr.shtml)
H
Schilz 2006




Urnfield
Germany
Lichtenstein Cave [M14]
M
1000 BC
I2a2b?
Iii? in table 2 (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/adnastr.shtml)
H
Schilz 2006




Urnfield
Germany
Lichtenstein Cave [M4, M5, M19]
M
1000 BC
I2a2b
Iiii in table 2 (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/adnastr.shtml)
H
Schilz 2006




Urnfield
Germany
Lichtenstein Cave [M8, M16]
M
1000 BC
I2a2b
Ii in table 2 (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/adnastr.shtml); Z5REF in Ysearch (http://www.ysearch.org/search_view.asp?uid=&viewuid=Z5REF&p=0)
U5b
Schilz 2006




Urnfield
Germany
Lichtenstein Cave [M10]
M
1000 BC
R1a1?
Ri in table 2 (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/adnastr.shtml)
T2?
Schilz 2006




Urnfield
Germany
Lichtenstein Cave [M11]
M
1000 BC
R1a1?
Ri? in table 2 (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/adnastr.shtml)
U
Schilz 2006




Urnfield
Germany
Lichtenstein Cave [M9]
M
1000 BC
R1b
Rbi in table 2 (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/adnastr.shtml)
H
Schilz 2006





I2a2 is not found in German BB and Nordic LNBA though, I expect that these will be deeper exclusive subclades of R1b-M269 (U106, P312) which expanded inside Europe after 5 ka.
Neither is I2a2 found in northern Irish EBA, but that may be a coincidence, because M284 is a large subclade of I2a2 with TMRCA 7.2 ka and which is almost exclusively British.

bicicleur
08-02-17, 21:13
oops, I overlooked one, neolithic megalithic Iberia :



Megalithic
Spain
La Mina [I0406/Mina 4]
M
3900-3600 BC
I2a2a1b2
Z161+, CTS9183+, L368+, L34+, P221+, P223+, P222+, M223+, P220+, L1195-
H1
Haak 2015; Mathieson 2015

Tomenable
08-02-17, 21:15
Some subclades of I2 and maybe even I1 could indeed expand from the Steppe together with R1b and R1a.

bicicleur
09-02-17, 09:50
Some subclades of I2 and maybe even I1 could indeed expand from the Steppe together with R1b and R1a.

with that I2a2 in Dnjepr Radpids and in Yamna, it looks like more than some subclades, it might be the majority
only 1 subcalde I know that probably is neolithic, I2a1a-M26

Jason Neuharth
19-02-17, 20:44
https://sway.com/Af7wxNjs1ZCdAZsi All I-M223 found in ancient dna

holderlin
20-02-17, 20:35
This is most likely the case. It seems now that R1a, R1b, and I2 were part of the same, or very similar early Holocene populations of Eurasia, who's male lines separated in eastern and western groups as we moved towards the Mesolithic. We have yet to find a sufficiently old enough R1a to really verify this, but we do have Karelia, which supports the notion.

holderlin
20-02-17, 20:41
I would give alot of money to know what language the Villabruna cluster spoke. Would it be recognizable? Would it be pre-farming lexicon IE?

KalashMasterRace
20-02-17, 21:55
I would give alot of money to know what language the Villabruna cluster spoke. Would it be recognizable? Would it be pre-farming lexicon IE?

Villabruna was not IE or proto-IE. Where are you getting this idiotic idea?

holderlin
21-02-17, 17:32
Villabruna was not IE or proto-IE. Where are you getting this idiotic idea?

Handle checks out.

holderlin
21-02-17, 17:37
Villabruna was not IE or proto-IE. Where are you getting this idiotic idea?

A single post with "KalashMasterRace" as a handle, and I'm not supposed to think this is some ***** gimmick account?

Alot of the the other forums that cover this topic are circle jerks to be sure, but I'm starting to wonder about this place.