Red Headed Turks

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tahir0010

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So I posted this question in another forum, and someone sent me a message referring me to here. This guy is turkish, but does he look turkish in your opinion. Do you think that he has more Eastern European features or more North Caucasian features. Or could these features even be Anatolian features? What are you guys thoughts about this. I know Turkey is very diverse because of the long life of the Ottomans. I was even wondering if these features could be Laz but this is a very not well known ethnic group in Turkey. IMG_0318.jpgIMG_0952.jpgIMG_0060.jpg
 
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I got the picture in there here it is for you
3_DkFrWW.jpg
 
Do you think it could be a mix of the upper Norther Caucasian region of Turkey, and maybe Kurdish that is what I was thinking? I think this image is better. https://s6.postimg.org/8smuj6s3l/IMG_0952.jpg especially from the nose. This is better picture, but for me does not look like northern Europe from nose, and eyes. Especially eye brows usually are not that thick or long on Northern Europeans and the slanted nose at the end makes me think more. Kurdish mixed maybe with Northern Caucasian.
 
What part of Turkey is he from? Anyways I agree with New Englander he looks like a stero typical Mid Easterner.
 
He is from Trabzon so the North East near the Caucasus mountains, and near the black sea. So I am wondering if he also has some mix of Kurdish in him?
 
Kurdish are Iranians, not Arabs. Most Kurds wont have anything over 15% SW Asian. He looks like he could be mixed with Jewish or Armenian or seems to have those features in part.
 
He could be Albanian or Bosniak, but he has more of a Caucasian-Steppe look.
 
Yes Turks did mix with Armenian so it is possible, but also he is from the north east of Turkey near Georgia. So I was wondering Georgian, Chechen, or even Abkhazia. I just do not know where the jewish would come from. In that area unless it came from like parts of Russia. I guess it could even be Tatar or Bashkir.
 
I would think a Macedonian Albanian though not pure blooded. You are from Hungary isn't there a large amount of Albanians in your country?
 
I've seen Turkish people with similar looks and light hair or light eyes and they tend to look more like some people from the Caucasian mountains rather than to Europeans.
 
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Valerius said:
I've seen Turkish people with similar looks and light hair or light eyes and they tend to look more like some people from the Caucasian mountains rather than to Europeans.

Sent from my LG-P710 using Eupedia Forum mobile app
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So you think his roots would be Caucasian? Do you think it would be like Assyrian Muslims? Or Ossetian Muslims? Or even from Chechnya.
 
tahir0010 said:
So you think his roots would be Caucasian? Do you think it would be like Assyrian Muslims? Or Ossetian Muslims? Or even from Chechnya.
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Frankly I have no idea, it's just matter of looks. The modern populations are mix of different people so he could have influences from here and there, not just one source. Mind that the red hair alone is rare but not absent from the Near East.
 
Gentlemen, I moved the thread because "phenotype" threads belong in anthropology.
 
raspberry said:
Red hair is not unique to Europe. It is a mutation wich occured during a time where no modern ethnicities existed. It occurs in whole Eurasia. Izzet ad Duri, a former Iraqi military commander, has also red hair (besides this he looks like Heisenberg from Breaking Bad :) ).
View attachment 8501
I dont think that Red hair is a mutation of the "Indo Europeans", rather a mutation of the basal Eurasian people. Below native and "homogenous" Bedouin girl with red hair.
View attachment 8502
Of course I dont know from where your friend originates, because it is possible that his red hair are a sign of "European" origin (this could be a possibility if he would originate from Western Anatolia).
Click to expand...

That Bedouin girl's hair might be dyed. Even if red hair is from Basal Eurasian, Steppe people can be an important source for red hair today because they had Basal Eurasian ancestry.

Anyways modern red hair frequencies don't suggest red hair has anything to do with Basal Eurasian. But in my opinion there's no reliable way to trace its origin by looking at modern frequencies. Ancient DNA is the only way to trace its origin. And like with other traits its origin probably isn't simplistic.

The only reliable data I know of which tell of red hair frequencies are the frequencies of three true known red hair mutations; R160W, R151C, and D294H.

I know have data for frequencies of those mutations from Western Europe plus few from Eastern Europe; Greece, Poland, and Finland.

Based on this data it looks like Red hair peaks in the Northwest tip of Europe; Britain, Ireland, Scandinavia, Netherlands. It looks like Red hair droughts in Southern Europe; Spain, Italy, and Greece. So far the oldest examples of people with one of those mutations are; Sweden 2000 BC, Russia 2000 BC, Hungary 2000 BC, Germany 1000 BC. The individual from Russia was about 65% Steppe decent, while the individual from Hungary was only 30% and probably an actual redhead.

R160W
Top 5
Norway: 23.5%
Netherlands: 20%
Orkeny Scotland: 19.4%
Sweden: 19.1%
England: 17%

Bottom 5
Greece: 2%
Spain: 2.1%
Sardinia: 2.9%
Italy: 4.8%
South France: 4.8%

R151C
Top 5
Ireland: 24%
Norway: 22%
Orkeny Scotland: 21.3%
England: 19%
Swedish: 16%

Bottom 5
Sardinia: 1%
Greece: 3.3%
South France: 4%
Spain: 4.4%
Paris France: 7.6%

D294H
Top 5
Ireland: 7%
Paris France: 5.7%
Sardinia: 5%
Italy: 4.4%
Spain: 3.7%

Bottom 5
Poland: 0%
Greece: 0%
Finland: 1%
Netherlands: 1.2%
Sweden: 1.3%
 
raspberry said:
In this case it is her natural hair colour. It could be connected to the steppe, but I think that phenotypical mutations (blue eyes, red hair etc.) are not limited to relatively recent cultures (like the steppe). It could be that red hair was widely spread among these steppe people, but its origins are probably even older. The same for eye colours.. Anyway, I am not an expert on phenotypical mutations.
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Do you think this style of nose is definitely more Turkish looking though then European? I personally think the red hair might have come from Tatar sense I know there is high population up in Karadeniz area (black sea area of Turkey)
https://s6.postimg.org/saif1vmwx/IMG_2028.jpg
IMG_2014.jpg
 
raspberry said:
Red hair is not unique to Europe. It is a mutation wich occured during a time where no modern ethnicities existed. It occurs in whole Eurasia. Izzet ad Duri, a former Iraqi military commander, has also red hair (besides this he looks like Heisenberg from Breaking Bad :) ).
View attachment 8501
I dont think that Red hair is a mutation of the "Indo Europeans", rather a mutation of the basal Eurasian people. Below native and "homogenous" Bedouin girl with red hair.
View attachment 8502
Of course I dont know from where your friend originates, because it is possible that his red hair are a sign of "European" origin (this could be a possibility if he would originate from Western Anatolia).
Click to expand...

Sorry I can tell you origins. His great great great ancestors came from Diyarbakir, Mardin, Urfa, and around nothern Iraq. From what he told me, and then they went towards the black sea, or your turkish so you know Karadeniz. So I was wondering if it could be laz, or cerkez. Then finally they went to Bursa, and settled in that area. Also he has traces of Eastern Europe.
 
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