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Azzurro
19-02-17, 23:39
The great Italian patriot and unifier of Italy, might have belonged to E-V13. This is based of a presumed cousin who tested on Ftdna.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Italy?iframe=yresults

As the most distant ancestor of this man is a GioBattista Garibaldi born in Nascio, Liguria. Nascio is a frazione of the town of Ne. As per Wikipedia on the article regarding Ne, Garibaldi's ancestor with his surname was founded in the nearby Graveglia valley.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ne,_Liguria

There is even a Wikipedia article regarding the Garibaldi family, which includes Giuseppe. The article is in Italian, and also connects the Garibaldi's to Ne, Liguria

https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garibaldi_(famiglia)

Angela
20-02-17, 00:14
Well, if true, that should put an end to speculations that y haplogroups necessarily correlate somehow with place of origin.

He looks like an American Civil War General:
http://www.civilwarphotos.net/files/images/149.jpg
http://www.parisrevolutionnaire.com/IMG/jpg/Garibaldi_Giuseppe_03_mini.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/George_Wythe_Randolph_1.jpg

Azzurro
20-02-17, 00:21
The first image really does look like him. What do you think? Same surname, same ancestral town, the odds are good of him being E-V13.

Angela
20-02-17, 00:49
The first image really does look like him. What do you think? Same surname, same ancestral town, the odds are good of him being E-V13.

It's certainly possible. There's E-V13 in Liguria and southern France certainly.

However, I rarely totally trust genealogical trees for y haplogroup assignment. There could be NPEs of one sort or another for all we know.

Angela
20-02-17, 00:54
It's certainly possible. There's E-V13 in Liguria and southern France certainly.

However, I rarely totally trust genealogical trees for y haplogroup assignment. There could be NPEs of one sort or another for all we know.

I hope there wasn't any confusion. Garibaldi is the one in the middle, and he and the American general above him do have similar features, in my opinion.

Robert E Lee's eyes are more far apart...http://www.theimaginativeconservative.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/068fd1775bd177982d5a65f1000ef9bb.jpg

Azzurro
20-02-17, 01:09
I hope there wasn't any confusion. Garibaldi is the one in the middle, and he and the American general above him do have similar features, in my opinion.

Robert E Lee's eyes are more far apart...http://www.theimaginativeconservative.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/068fd1775bd177982d5a65f1000ef9bb.jpg

I was thinking the same thing, the eyes are different and even the mouth, Robert E Lee has a bigger lower lip.

For the same reasons too I was thinking, there is always the possibilty of NPE event, I would say if another Garibaldi or similar surname variant from the area gets E-V13, than it's 100% confirmed.

I personally would classify Garibaldi as E-V13, for now, I think the evidence is pretty good.

Pax Augusta
20-02-17, 02:33
The first image really does look like him. What do you think? Same surname, same ancestral town, the odds are good of him being E-V13.

First it should be proven the GioBatta Garibaldi, born the same year of Giuseppe Garibaldi, is a cousin of Giuseppe, and that in the case of GioBatta (=Giovanni Battista) the surname is really inherited from the paternal line, not to mention that could be a NPE. Generally speaking, based on my family archival research, there are chance that not all the Garibaldis descend from the same ancestor, even if the surname seems concentrated in few areas of Liguria. I have seen seen many similar cases.

I think there are still living many descendants of Giuseppe Garibaldi. Someone shoud be tested.

Azzurro
20-02-17, 02:53
First it should be proven the GioBatta Garibaldi, born the same year of Giuseppe Garibaldi, is a cousin of Giuseppe, and that in the case of GioBatta (=Giovanni Battista) the surname is really inherited from the paternal line, not to mention that could be a NPE. Generally speaking, based on my family archival research, there are chance that not all the Garibaldis descend from the same ancestor, even if the surname seems concentrated in few areas of Liguria. I have seen seen many similar cases.

I think there are still living many descendants of Giuseppe Garibaldi. Someone shoud be tested.

I wouldn't even know how to contact the descendant of Giovanni Battista, I am not haplogroup E so he wouldn't be a match, maybe I can contact the Italy project admin to email and ask. The real solid point is that both have paternal ancestry relating to Ne, I really think the odds are good.

For sure getting one of Giuseppe's descendants to test would be the best way to know.

Maciamo
20-02-17, 10:23
However, I rarely totally trust genealogical trees for y haplogroup assignment. There could be NPEs of one sort or another for all we know.

It helps when there are several people of the same lineage who tested positive for the same haplogroup. NPEs are a relatively minor concern within 6 or 7 generations. If the probability is 1% per generation, we still have a confidence of over 90% over 250 years or so. We saw with the descendants of the Kings of France since Louis XIII tested by Larmuseau et al. (2013) (http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/ejhg2013211a.html) that a lineage can survive free of NPEs for over 400 years across multiple lines. Of course we can never been 100% sure of someone's Y-haplogroup unless we test his DNA directly. Even testing the father, son or a brother, there could have been a non-paternity event. That doesn't deter websites like ISOGG or 23andMe to list famous people's haplogroups based on a relative's testing (as was the case with Napoleon I vs Napoleon III).

Maciamo
20-02-17, 10:55
First it should be proven the GioBatta Garibaldi, born the same year of Giuseppe Garibaldi, is a cousin of Giuseppe, and that in the case of GioBatta (=Giovanni Battista) the surname is really inherited from the paternal line, not to mention that could be a NPE. Generally speaking, based on my family archival research, there are chance that not all the Garibaldis descend from the same ancestor, even if the surname seems concentrated in few areas of Liguria. I have seen seen many similar cases.

I think there are still living many descendants of Giuseppe Garibaldi. Someone shoud be tested.

I agree that in general just sharing a surname is not enough to guess a person's haplogroup. There are thousands of Y-DNA surname projects and in virtually all of them there is a diversity of lineages and haplogroups. However, it is very rare that two people with the same surname coming from the same little village exactly at the same period, and only 200 years ago (not say 600 years ago, where the chance of NPEs is much higher) do not descend from the same lineage, especially if that surname is not common. The more common the surname and the lower the chance of sharing a haplogroup. But Garibaldi is a rare surname concentrated mostly in Liguria (http://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index.php?sur=Garibaldi&s=Genera).

Additionally, Giuseppe's father was born in the Parrocchia di S. Giovanni Battista in Chiavari, a few kilometres from Nascio. Note that the name of the parish matches the given name of the ancestor on FTDNA (Giovanni Battista). I don't think it's a coincidence. Unfortunately Geni.com (https://www.geni.com/people/Giuseppe-Garibaldi/6000000011327774732) does not list the children of Giuseppe's brothers, nor those of his father or grandfather's brothers. But they had several brothers and I would bet that one of of his first or second cousin was called Giovanni Battista. Perhaps someone can search on an Italian genealogy website? (as I don't really know which ones are popular)

Angela
20-02-17, 16:37
Garibaldi is indeed a very Ligurian name. I know people myself who carry it.

As I said, it wouldn't at all surprise me that he carried E-V13. It's certainly present in Liguria in very decent numbers.

There also seems to be quite a bit of circumstantial evidence that this is the case. People should just be aware that circumstantial evidence is just that...circumstantial.

For anyone who is going to descend into the morass of Italian genealogical trees, they should be aware that the same names get used over and over again, i.e. in just one generation of one of my mother's lines, for example, there were six Giovanni Battistas (a very common name in Liguria and surrounding areas), infants who died among them, but also just second cousins, third cousins etc. So, death records, marriage records, etc., and the corresponding dates have to be carefully checked.

As for NPEs, they needn't have occurred within the span of a few generations. I'll take my father's family as an example. They've been living, so far as I can tell, in the same villages in the northern Apennines since the 1400-1500s at least. I wouldn't bet that after all that time every single one of the men who carry my father's surname carry exactly the same yDna. Now, they probably do, especially since they likely arrived from the same area, and women were watched very stringently, but there's no guarantee.

That's what I mean by probability versus proof.

In the case where a son or grandchild is tested, the likelihood that there's been no NPE is much higher, although still not absolute proof, of course.

Anyway, a very great man, Garibaldi, whatever yDna he carried. He and Mazzini were my father's heroes. No pictures of Popes were allowed on our walls, just those two.

Pax Augusta
20-02-17, 17:02
I wouldn't even know how to contact the descendant of Giovanni Battista, I am not haplogroup E so he wouldn't be a match, maybe I can contact the Italy project admin to email and ask. The real solid point is that both have paternal ancestry relating to Ne, I really think the odds are good.

For sure getting one of Giuseppe's descendants to test would be the best way to know.

Yes, it would be a great idea to contact the Italy project admin.



I agree that in general just sharing a surname is not enough to guess a person's haplogroup. There are thousands of Y-DNA surname projects and in virtually all of them there is a diversity of lineages and haplogroups. However, it is very rare that two people with the same surname coming from the same little village exactly at the same period, and only 200 years ago (not say 600 years ago, where the chance of NPEs is much higher) do not descend from the same lineage, especially if that surname is not common. The more common the surname and the lower the chance of sharing a haplogroup.

Of course, Azzurro made a great find, and there's a good chance that two people with surname Garibaldi born in the same valley are related and a E-V13 in Liguria is plausible. At the same time, we need to do further searches, because we cannot rule out that they are not. Not to mention that Ftda project is self-reported as I know.



But Garibaldi is a rare surname concentrated mostly in Liguria (http://www.mappadeicognomi.it/index.php?sur=Garibaldi&s=Genera).


For Italian standards it's not rare. In Italy there are at least 350,000 different surnames, in Italy a surname is rare when is carried by less than 10/20 families. According to Cognomix there are 638 families with surname Garibaldi in Italy, based on the phone directory. It means that people with this surname in Italy are many more.

http://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/GARIBALDI

Very often identical surnames are spread in the same areas in Italy, not only because they do descend from the same ancestor, but also because same names (from which surnames are originated) were common and widespread in the same area for some kind of local imitation.



Additionally, Giuseppe's father was born in the Parrocchia di S. Giovanni Battista in Chiavari, a few kilometres from Nascio. Note that the name of the parish matches the given name of the ancestor on FTDNA (Giovanni Battista). I don't think it's a coincidence. Unfortunately Geni.com (https://www.geni.com/people/Giuseppe-Garibaldi/6000000011327774732) does not list the children of Giuseppe's brothers, nor those of his father or grandfather's brothers. But they had several brothers and I would bet that one of of his first or second cousin was called Giovanni Battista. Perhaps someone can search on an Italian genealogy website? (as I don't really know which ones are popular)

Giuseppe and Giovanni Battista are very common names among Italians in that period, because both Giuseppe and Giovanni Battista are very popular Saint names (in the Catholic hierarchy they are in the top 5 :)). I can try to search on Italian genealogy websites.

LABERIA
20-02-17, 19:18
He was a great man. I prefer this photo:
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS461FUGRKXFesffJBqP7e04x8vH-WqbpqdW3hU6lMY4Q5atrb7
Also i want to post this simple memorial plaque, few persons deserve such a great honor:
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSkUB1BCqX4HC8ZamjIweN0cxEvf8j5O lDgGIIScM19BsqqHHXr

Azzurro
20-02-17, 19:30
Yes, it would be a great idea to contact the Italy project admin.




Of course, Azzurro made a great find, and there's a good chance that two people with surname Garibaldi born in the same valley are related and a E-V13 in Liguria is plausible. At the same time, we need to do further searches, because we cannot rule out that they are not. Not to mention that Ftda project is self-reported as I know.





For Italian standards it's not rare. In Italy there are at least 350,000 different surnames, in Italy a surname is rare when is carried by less than 10/20 families. According to Cognomix there are 638 families with surname Garibaldi in Italy, based on the phone directory. It means that people with this surname in Italy are many more.

http://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/GARIBALDI

Very often identical surnames are spread in the same areas in Italy, not only because they do descend from the same ancestor, but also because same names (from which surnames are originated) were common and widespread in the same area for some kind of local imitation.




Giuseppe and Giovanni Battista are very common names among Italians in that period, because both Giuseppe and Giovanni Battista are very popular Saint names (in the Catholic hierarchy they are in the top 5 :)). I can try to search on Italian genealogy websites.

I contacted one of the administrators, I am waiting for the response, and definitely with Giuseppe and Giovanni Battista being common, I am sure you can include Antonio and Francesco in the top 5 as well.

Angela
20-02-17, 20:42
I contacted one of the administrators, I am waiting for the response, and definitely with Giuseppe and Giovanni Battista being common, I am sure you can include Antonio and Francesco in the top 5 as well.

Between Saint Francis and Anthony of Padua (who wasn't Italian, btw, but Spanish), I think that's a pretty good bet. :)

They were common even in the Renaissance:
http://www.behindthename.com/top/lists/italy-renaissance/1427

There are differences between eras and areas of the country, however. Certain given names are pan Italian. Certain ones are more common in the north versus the south. If someone's name is Salvatore, chances are that he's southern, for example. They also seem to me to go more for antique Latin names although northerners have them too: Fabio, Flavio, Florio.

Some of the Latin ones in our area: Cesare, Aurelia, Aurelio.

My mother's family went in for some pretty ugly sounding Germanic names, too: Osvaldo, Adalberto, etc.

There's been a change recently:
http://www.studentsoftheworld.info/penpals/stats.php3?Pays=ITA

No girls named Sara when I was growing up, or any of the other names either. Giovanni is now 22 and Maria 31!

Given the low birthrate and all these new names, genealogists should have an easier time in the future.

@Laberia,
I just noticed your signature line. I like Mark Twain a lot...a homespun philosopher and great student of human nature. :)

A color version so you can see the famous "red shirt".

http://i1.chroniclelive.co.uk/incoming/article8319680.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/JS27088327.jpg

Azzurro
20-02-17, 21:13
Between Saint Francis and Anthony of Padua (who wasn't Italian, btw, but Spanish), I think that's a pretty good bet. :)

They were common even in the Renaissance:
http://www.behindthename.com/top/lists/italy-renaissance/1427

There are differences between eras and areas of the country, however. Certain given names are pan Italian. Certain ones are more common in the north versus the south. If someone's name is Salvatore, chances are that he's southern, for example. They also seem to me to go more for antique Latin names although northerners have them too: Fabio, Flavio, Florio.

Some of the Latin ones in our area: Cesare, Aurelia, Aurelio.

My mother's family went in for some pretty ugly sounding Germanic names, too: Osvaldo, Adalberto, etc.

There's been a change recently:
http://www.studentsoftheworld.info/penpals/stats.php3?Pays=ITA

No girls named Sara when I was growing up, or any of the other names either. Giovanni is now 22 and Maria 31!

Given the low birthrate and all these new names, genealogists should have an easier time in the future.

@Laberia,
I just noticed your signature line. I like Mark Twain a lot...a homespun philosopher and great student of human nature. :)

A color version so you can see the famous "red shirt".

http://i1.chroniclelive.co.uk/incoming/article8319680.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/JS27088327.jpg

Isn't Saint Anthony Portugese? If I'm not mistaken he was born in Lisbon. It's funny you mention Salvatore as I have a Salvatore in my family :) Even in the south their is name variants such as Antonino replacing Antonio (more in Sicily and Calabria) maybe also Vito more common in the South and Vittorio in the North? Very true with the name changes, I remember reading the masculine name Mattia is common now too, also english names started being somewhat of the practice, names like Cristian.

Angela
20-02-17, 21:47
Isn't Saint Anthony Portugese? If I'm not mistaken he was born in Lisbon. It's funny you mention Salvatore as I have a Salvatore in my family :) Even in the south their is name variants such as Antonino replacing Antonio (more in Sicily and Calabria) maybe also Vito more common in the South and Vittorio in the North? Very true with the name changes, I remember reading the masculine name Mattia is common now too, also english names started being somewhat of the practice, names like Cristian.

You're right, Portuguese, not Spanish. I should have checked before posting. Despite the fact that St. Francis is the patron saint of Italy(along with Catherine of Siena), it was the name of Saint Anthony which was usually on people's lips.

Vito is definitely southern. I've never met a 100% northern Italian or Central Italian with that name, nor a Salvatore, Gennaro, Pasquale, Corrado, Vincenzo, Santino. Even Angelo is not a name I ever heard in the family or extended family. It's just different. In my own generation there was Adriano/a, Andrea, Luca, Gianni/a, Piero/a, Paolo/a, Lina, Elena, Loredana, Irene, etc.

Nowadays they take names from foreign movie stars or just foreign countries too. My half Italian/half Swiss German young cousin is named Patrick. I have no idea why. I think it sounds stupid with his last name, but whatever, I guess I'm old fashioned. Oh, and my other first cousin's son on my mother's side had to be named Archimedi in honor of his Venetian ancestors' tribute to the Greek source of their fortune, alas now practically all spent. Poor thing: how would you like to go around with Archimedes as your name? :) We just call him Medi.

Oh, another ugly name in my mother's extended family from the 19th century: Arduina. I hate Matilde too.

From my father's side, other than the normal saints' names, we had the following nicer, imo, names: Dario, Dante, Beatrice, Livia. I know, I know: we've always been readers.:)

Anyway, Azzurro, I think I've strayed off topic, so I'll end here.

Azzurro
21-02-17, 00:25
You're right, Portuguese, not Spanish. I should have checked before posting. Despite the fact that St. Francis is the patron saint of Italy(along with Catherine of Siena), it was the name of Saint Anthony which was usually on people's lips.

Vito is definitely southern. I've never met a 100% northern Italian or Central Italian with that name, nor a Salvatore, Gennaro, Pasquale, Corrado, Vincenzo, Santino. Even Angelo is not a name I ever heard in the family or extended family. It's just different. In my own generation there was Adriano/a, Andrea, Luca, Gianni/a, Piero/a, Paolo/a, Lina, Elena, Loredana, Irene, etc.

Nowadays they take names from foreign movie stars or just foreign countries too. My half Italian/half Swiss German young cousin is named Patrick. I have no idea why. I think it sounds stupid with his last name, but whatever, I guess I'm old fashioned. Oh, and my other first cousin's son on my mother's side had to be named Archimedi in honor of his Venetian ancestors' tribute to the Greek source of their fortune, alas now practically all spent. Poor thing: how would you like to go around with Archimedes as your name? :) We just call him Medi.

Oh, another ugly name in my mother's extended family from the 19th century: Arduina. I hate Matilde too.

Anyway, Azzurro, I think I've strayed off topic, so I'll end here.

Thanks for your insight on the names :) Very informative.

Maciamo
21-02-17, 09:25
For Italian standards it's not rare. In Italy there are at least 350,000 different surnames, in Italy a surname is rare when is carried by less than 10/20 families. According to Cognomix there are 638 families with surname Garibaldi in Italy, based on the phone directory. It means that people with this surname in Italy are many more.

http://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/GARIBALDI

I am aware of the diversity of surnames in Italy. I wrote an article on Italian surnames by region (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/24419-Italian-surnames-by-region) and another one on the Comparative diversity of European family names (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_family_names.shtml) 10 years ago. Belgium has 190,000 surnames for 10 million inhabitants (if we exclude foreigners). That's almost four times more diversity per capita than Italy. I still consider than a patronym carried by 100 to 500 families is relatively rare. 10-20 would be exceedingly rare (almost extinct). In contrast over 45,000 Italian families have the surname Rossi. In terms of Y-DNA spread, considering that traditional families in past centuries often had lots o children (maybe 3 to 6 sons), one lineage could easily expand from one individual to 300 in just 5 or 6 generations, maybe even less if they had very large families with high survival rates and a slight bias toward more boys. That's less than two centuries anyway.



Giuseppe and Giovanni Battista are very common names among Italians in that period, because both Giuseppe and Giovanni Battista are very popular Saint names (in the Catholic hierarchy they are in the top 5 :)). I can try to search on Italian genealogy websites.

I am surprised that Giovanni Battista is one of the most poplar saint names. I have travelled to all regions in northern Italy (except Val d'Aosta) + Lazio and Campania and I don't recall ever seeing a cathedral or church dedicated to San Giovanni Battista. The same is true in Belgium and France (never once heard of an église Saint Jean-Baptiste). The parish I mentioned above in Chiavari was the first I heard of. Anyway, there might be some, but not many compared to the San Pietro, San Francesco, San Michele, Sant' Andrea, San Lorenzo, San Paolo, San Giovanni, San Giorgio, San Nicola, Sant'Antonio, etc.

Pax Augusta
21-02-17, 09:48
I am surprised that Giovanni Battista is one of the most poplar saint names. I have travelled to all regions in northern Italy (except Val d'Aosta) + Lazio and Campania and I don't recall ever seeing a cathedral or church dedicated to San Giovanni Battista. The same is true in Belgium and France (never once heard of an église Saint Jean-Baptiste). The parish I mentioned above in Chiavari was the first I heard of. Anyway, there might be some, but not many compared to the San Pietro, San Francesco, San Michele, Sant' Andrea, San Lorenzo, San Paolo, San Giovanni, San Giorgio, San Nicola, Sant'Antonio, etc.

Many baptisteries in Italy are named after San Giovanni Battista (Wikipedia lists are incomplete)

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battistero_di_San_Giovanni_Battista

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battistero_di_San_Giovanni

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Giovanni_Battista_(disambigua)#Pagine_correlat e


And also many churches.

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiesa_di_San_Giovanni_Battista#Italia

Yetos
21-02-17, 14:30
hmmm

if Hitler was V-13
Napoleon V-13
Garbaldi V-13

I think V-13 statistically 'pushes' unification movements,

do we have someone else, that is connected with such movements, known as V-13?

Angela
21-02-17, 16:05
Many baptisteries in Italy are named after San Giovanni Battista (Wikipedia lists are incomplete)

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battistero_di_San_Giovanni_Battista

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battistero_di_San_Giovanni

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Giovanni_Battista_(disambigua)#Pagine_correlat e


And also many churches.

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiesa_di_San_Giovanni_Battista#Italia

Indeed, and quite a number in Liguria, especially noteworthy given how small it is. Interestingly, they are centered around Genova and the western area around Savona, so, close to Nizza. No wonder it was such a popular name there.

In my mother's area in the Lunigiana we have two dedicated to him, in Filattiera and in Villafranca (very close to where she was born). Obviously, that's the reason there were so many of that name in her family.

This happens all over Italy, as you know. My husband's grandfather was named Ilario, after an obscure saint of their area. Of course, as happens in America, they called him Larry. They even forgot his actual name, and wanted to put Lorenzo on his death certificate! Those are the perils of the diaspora. Your descendants might even forget your real name!

@Yetos,
The y lineage of Hitler wasn't resolved down to that level. All they stated was that he was E1b1b1 E-M35.

Napoleon was definitely not E-V13. He was
E1b1b1c1* (E-M34* (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E1b1b_(Y-DNA)#E1b1b1c_.28E-M123.29)) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E1b1b_(Y-DNA)#E1b1b1c_.28E-M123.29) last I heard.

Yetos
21-02-17, 18:10
@Yetos,
The y lineage of Hitler wasn't resolved down to that level. All they stated was that he was E1b1b1 E-M35.

Napoleon was definitely not E-V13. He was
E1b1b1c1* (E-M34* (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E1b1b_(Y-DNA)#E1b1b1c_.28E-M123.29)) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E1b1b_(Y-DNA)#E1b1b1c_.28E-M123.29) last I heard.




so the IF does not exist

Angela
21-02-17, 18:41
so the IF does not exist

So far we've got:
The Wright Brothers, inventors of the first successful airplane
Lyndon Johnson, President of the United States,
Larry Paige, the co-founder of Google
Giuseppe Garibaldi, General and one of the unifiers of Italy

See:
http://www.eupedia.com/genetics/famous_y-dna_by_haplogroup.shtml#E-V13

I would think the odds are that Hitler was also E-V13 given that about 10% of the people in his native area carry that lineage, and other E1b1b there would be rare.

So, you have two.

I think George Stephanopoulos, Greek-American political operative and now tv commentator is also E-V13.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Stephanopoulos

Maleth
21-03-17, 19:59
Excuse me for being off topic, but I read a long while ago that a direct descendent from the royal house of Savoy was E-V13. However there is no trace of this anymore anywhere. Was it just a rumor?

Angela
21-03-17, 22:42
Excuse me for being off topic, but I read a long while ago that a direct descendent from the royal house of Savoy was E-V13. However there is no trace of this anymore anywhere. Was it just a rumor?

Sorry, I can't help with that because I never heard that rumor, nor that anyone had suggested a certain yDna lineage for them.

Even if one of the few males left tested, I wouldn't go betting money that it's the yDna of the original founder of the line.

Anyway, from my vantage point they're one of the worst supposedly "Royal" houses in Europe and I doubt they have an ounce of actual "Italian" or even real "Savoyard" in them by this time. Pity they let them return from exile. On the other hand, it's let Italians with any sense whatsoever see how truly trivial and worthless they really are, for anyone who had forgotten.

Pax Augusta
22-03-17, 00:43
Excuse me for being off topic, but I read a long while ago that a direct descendent from the royal house of Savoy was E-V13. However there is no trace of this anymore anywhere. Was it just a rumor?

Ask him.

https://twitter.com/efsavoia

Maleth
22-03-17, 09:38
Sorry, I can't help with that because I never heard that rumor, nor that anyone had suggested a certain yDna lineage for them.

Even if one of the few males left tested, I wouldn't go betting money that it's the yDna of the original founder of the line.

Anyway, from my vantage point they're one of the worst supposedly "Royal" houses in Europe and I doubt they have an ounce of actual "Italian" or even real "Savoyard" in them by this time. Pity they let them return from exile. On the other hand, it's let Italians with any sense whatsoever see how truly trivial and worthless they really are, for anyone who had forgotten.

I really cannot remember were I read it, but it must have been in one of the foras around when I started getting interested on the subject. Many posts are just mere gossip with no scientific basis or based on surname projects that could prove multi ydna lineages anyway. Example same has been speculated about Slobodan Milošević that he is E-V13. I'm not familiar with house of Savoy and their rule.....maybe I should read their history :)

Maleth
22-03-17, 09:39
Ask him.

https://twitter.com/efsavoia

Not sure if its a good idea :/ :).............

Pax Augusta
22-03-17, 16:05
Not sure if its a good idea :/ :).............

That rumor was based on someone who claimed to be descendant of the Savoy. Some Italian genealogists tried to verify, but it was quite impossible. The problem is that anyone can take a test and claim what he wants. Therefore these claims, also in FTDNA lists or any other site, should be taken with great caution. Italian genealogist sites are full of Italians, usually descendants of Italians who migrated abroad, who are convinced to be descendant of noble and illustrious Italian families only because they have a similar surname. Savoia is a common surname in Italy

http://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/SAVOIA

Maleth
23-03-17, 10:47
That rumor was based on someone who claimed to be descendant of the Savoy. Some Italian genealogists tried to verify, but it was quite impossible. The problem is that anyone can take a test and claim what he wants. Therefore these claims, also in FTDNA lists or any other site, should be taken with great caution. Italian genealogist sites are full of Italians, usually descendants of Italians who migrated abroad, who are convinced to be descendant of noble and illustrious Italian families only because they have a similar surname. Savoia is a common surname in Italy

http://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/SAVOIA

total agree

PaschalisB
26-03-17, 11:34
This Garibaldi is predicted to belong to E-FGC11457 using the Nevgen STR predictor.

DuPidh
08-04-17, 23:37
I have heard Serbs also brag about Miloshevic being e v13. They have a facebook page about it

Angela
09-04-17, 16:51
That rumor was based on someone who claimed to be descendant of the Savoy. Some Italian genealogists tried to verify, but it was quite impossible. The problem is that anyone can take a test and claim what he wants. Therefore these claims, also in FTDNA lists or any other site, should be taken with great caution. Italian genealogist sites are full of Italians, usually descendants of Italians who migrated abroad, who are convinced to be descendant of noble and illustrious Italian families only because they have a similar surname. Savoia is a common surname in Italy

http://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/SAVOIA

It's the same in my mother's ancestral area. Malaspina, the name of our local barons, is not uncommon at all. It's all over my family tree. Carrying it means, as far as I'm concerned, that you're as likely to be descended from their grooms and tenants as you are to be descended from the family itself. By the same token, someone bearing a different name could indeed be descended from them You'd need ancient dna and/or the dna of the current descendants to be sure.

At any rate, even if I descend in part from some of them, it's probably so diluted by this point that it's highly unlikely I actually possess any dna from them.

Fwiw, that's more than fine with me. They were parasites, like most aristocrats, bleeding our area dry for hundreds of years.

Ponto
11-04-17, 05:21
I thought there was a move to dna test the remains of Garibaldi in the island off Sardinia. Garibaldi had sons from his Brazilian wife and from his mistress, he had a grandson of the same name born in Australia, he could have had sons. It would be better to track those descendants for dna than some obscure man supposedly a cousin of some sort who had the same surname from Liguria. What about Garibaldi's father? He must be buried somewhere in Italy or France considering Garibaldi was born in Nice.

Angela
30-08-18, 01:18
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All posting on this forum is to be in English.

MobyD
30-08-18, 02:13
Possibly, although I am not entirely sure.

HarryRussell
28-09-19, 22:09
I use this information for my school project in the future