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Angela
08-03-17, 20:49
See:
Montserrat Hervilla et al;
Ancient DNA from South-East Europe Reveals Different Events during Early and Middle Neolithic Influencing the European Genetic Heritagehttp://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0128810

"The importance of the process of Neolithization for the genetic make-up of European populations has been hotly debated, with shifting hypotheses from a demic diffusion (DD) to a cultural diffusion (CD) model. In this regard, ancient DNA data from the Balkan Peninsula, which is an important source of information to assess the process of Neolithization in Europe, is however missing. In the present study we show genetic information on ancient populations of the South-East of Europe. We assessed mtDNA from ten sites from the current territory of Romania, spanning a time-period from the Early Neolithic to the Late Bronze Age. mtDNA data from Early Neolithic farmers of the Starčevo Criş culture in Romania (Cârcea, Gura Baciului and Negrileşti sites), confirm their genetic relationship with those of the LBK culture (Linienbandkeramik Kultur) in Central Europe, and they show little genetic continuity with modern European populations. On the other hand, populations of the Middle-Late Neolithic (Boian, Zau and Gumelniţa cultures), supposedly a second wave of Neolithic migration from Anatolia, had a much stronger effect on the genetic heritage of the European populations. In contrast, we find a smaller contribution of Late Bronze Age migrations to the genetic composition of Europeans. Based on these findings, we propose that permeation of mtDNA lineages from a second wave of Middle-Late Neolithic migration from North-West Anatolia into the Balkan Peninsula and Central Europe represent an important contribution to the genetic shift between Early and Late Neolithic populations in Europe, and consequently to the genetic make-up of modern European populations."

I hate to say it again, but it's what I've been proposing , that there was a second and more significant wave of the Neolithic which brought slight different mtDna.

Angela
08-03-17, 20:52
See:
Montserrat Hervilla et al;
Ancient DNA from South-East Europe Reveals Different Events during Early and Middle Neolithic Influencing the European Genetic Heritage

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0128810

"The importance of the process of Neolithization for the genetic make-up of European populations has been hotly debated, with shifting hypotheses from a demic diffusion (DD) to a cultural diffusion (CD) model. In this regard, ancient DNA data from the Balkan Peninsula, which is an important source of information to assess the process of Neolithization in Europe, is however missing. In the present study we show genetic information on ancient populations of the South-East of Europe. We assessed mtDNA from ten sites from the current territory of Romania, spanning a time-period from the Early Neolithic to the Late Bronze Age. mtDNA data from Early Neolithic farmers of the Starčevo Criş culture in Romania (Cârcea, Gura Baciului and Negrileşti sites), confirm their genetic relationship with those of the LBK culture (Linienbandkeramik Kultur) in Central Europe, and they show little genetic continuity with modern European populations. On the other hand, populations of the Middle-Late Neolithic (Boian, Zau and Gumelniţa cultures), supposedly a second wave of Neolithic migration from Anatolia, had a much stronger effect on the genetic heritage of the European populations. In contrast, we find a smaller contribution of Late Bronze Age migrations to the genetic composition of Europeans. Based on these findings, we propose that permeation of mtDNA lineages from a second wave of Middle-Late Neolithic migration from North-West Anatolia into the Balkan Peninsula and Central Europe represent an important contribution to the genetic shift between Early and Late Neolithic populations in Europe, and consequently to the genetic make-up of modern European populations."

I hate to say it again, but it's what I've been proposing , that there was a second and more significant wave of the Neolithic which brought different mtDna to Central Europe.

Could that also be when the "E" and the "J2a" arrived?

bicicleur
09-03-17, 16:55
the 8.2 ka climate event made neolithic people in SW Asia become herders and move, especially into the Nile Valley, also into Armenia and the borderland between northern Iran and southern central Asia (Jeitun culture)
also into SE Europe, the Southern Roumenian Dudesti culture, strange enough not mentioned in this study and maybe some new influx into the Carpathian Basin which was already settled by farmers
the newcomers may have triggered the switch from Starcevo to Vinca culture, but the genetic impact may be limited

So, I think the subject of this study is very interesting, but I don't think it is possible to reach significant conclusions on the basis of some statistics relating to a limited sampling of mtDNA.
IMO it does not prove the possible new influx from SW Asia, neither does it point to a source.

The E and J2a in 7.2 ka Sopot culture points to SW Asia, but the origin could also be the first wave of farmers that entered Greece or the Carpathian Basin some 1300 years before. The 8.2 ka lasted only a few centuries and thus is not directly related to Sopot.
We simply need more nuclear DNA.

MOESAN
11-03-17, 01:18
I've red this paper - I too find the sample is not big enough compared to the span of time covered (it's often the problem with haplos which need greater samples than auDNA ones for statistical reasons) - as Angela, I think one or more introgressions came from Anatolia after the daybreak of the farming in Europe (already maybe in two waves!), the last ones linked to first metals uses whatever the direction - concerning Y-J2 almost sure - concerning Y-E1b1 it could depend on lineages, I 've still the impression E-V13 (OR IT'S CONCERNED UPSTREAMS) was old enough in Pelopponese and the Adriatic coasts what doesn't contradict the fact it can have rised up significantly later, at Metals Ages by example -
concerning Carpathians (Romania, Poland) and Western Ukraina I wonder if these regions has not been providers of surplus of eastern clades of mt-H (H5 among them) during (mid and last) Neolithic, even later, but it's just a "feminine intuition" (sorry Angela but I'm a male who evolved and can avow his feminine part! LOL); here again we need more and more mt-DNA to build solid conclusions; some papers I red conclude upon samples which would put statisticians to break their belly of laugh...

New Englander
11-03-17, 05:46
I only care about Autosomes....

Nik
15-03-17, 13:15
Interesting study and I wish they invest a bit on the Western Balkans as well.

With regards to the arrival of E and J2a, seems unlikely to me as E-V13 is believed to be associated more with J2b but then again that doesn't disprove anything, just an opinion.

I would also be interested in testing the early Neolithic population of Malta which was replaced later by another wave to understand what was going on in the area.