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View Full Version : Y-DNA turnover in Chalcolithic Iberia?



berun
10-03-17, 00:26
The Neolithic dispersal in Europe was headed by G2a people with "local" partners (above all I2a1 which is found in Treilles, Els Trocs, Funnel, Starcevo...). The G2a reached Languedoc and Catalonia being yet a majority (Avellaner, Treilles).

With the new Y-DNA samples from the Chalcolithic it's possible to see that Megalithism changed proportions. We have 8 I2a2 (adding La Mina and Atapuerca), 2 G2a, 1 I2a1 and a C1a for such period (it's true that some enthusiasts try to assign some of such samples to the Bell Beakers, but the extreme lowest datation for such samples is 2346 BC, and BB appeared in the Basque Country around 2350, they just might wait for the promised BB paper).

So it seems that as the Cardial culture spread an Anatolian haplo, the Megalithism favoured a "local" haplo. Just wondering if Bell Beakers' R1b was not the same case.

Take it as an ironic theory just to compare with the L51 case: I2a2 is first recorded in Mesolithic Ukraine and there was a Yamnayan carrying such clade... so Megalithism was delivered from the steppes also, even if Iberian Chalcolithics are devoid of steppe admixture (no matter because almost all Urnfield samples were I2a2 and spoke Celtic).

berun
10-03-17, 00:42
For the BB reaching the Basque area by 2350 BC there is Metalurgia y metalúrgicos en el Valle del Ebro, and Caminos hacia la complejidad: el Calcolítico en la región cantábrica.

bicicleur
10-03-17, 09:08
I was not aware that Atapuerca was megalithic. What kind of megalithic structures did they have? Just dolmen or also larger structures?

Once the first farmers settled, the share of haplo I started to grow, but indeed maybe even more so in the megalithic.
The first megaliths in the Algarve and in Brittany were erected before the settlement of farmers in the respective areas.
It looks like megalithism is a feature connected with haplogroup I.

As for El Portalon in Atapuerca, we have DNA starting from 5.4 ka. There is R1b-M269 and I2a2a. It is the oldest Iberian DNA with some steppe (EHG like) admixture. The nearby and more recent Mirador DNA does not have that.

berun
10-03-17, 09:35
I just counted all Chalco samples irrespective of their culture. If taking alone thosr in dolmens the I2a2 would be around 80%. In fact it would be a better approximation as the Megalithism in North Spain is attached to typical herder regions, and there are clear cultural frontiers, even in Navarre (the region of the ancient Vascones).

bicicleur
10-03-17, 10:00
I just counted all Chalco samples irrespective of their culture. If taking alone thosr in dolmens the I2a2 would be around 80%. In fact it would be a better approximation as the Megalithism in North Spain is attached to typical herder regions, and there are clear cultural frontiers, even in Navarre (the region of the ancient Vascones).

northwest Iberia was not settled by Cardial Ware, but about 1000 years later there were herders, probably from orginal HG populations
there was no megalithism though, there were cave burials instead

often we don't have Y-DNA in megalithic sites, but mtDNA
haplo U5, U4, U2, U8a and U8c can be seen as proxies for former WHG populations
they are well represented in megalithic sites

lots of new DNA has been published lately
I haven't made up new spreadsheets yet to compare

berun
11-03-17, 00:58
Right, the true cardial didn't reach the area but epicardials by 5200 BC.

http://www.ehu.eus/ojs/index.php/Veleia/article/download/2840/2454

As for megalits, the area is full of dolmens.