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View Full Version : Highest "Baltic" scores in Eurogenes K13 / K15



Tomenable
10-03-17, 11:51
These two kits have probably the highest levels of "Baltic" admixture I've ever seen:

1) M344515
2) F215487

=============

1)

Milda Muciek (not sure about her ancestry, but might be Polish from East Prussia):

Eurogenes K13:

Kit M344515

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 57.73
2 North_Atlantic 25.58
3 West_Med 7.82
4 West_Asian 2.71
5 East_Med 2.56
6 South_Asian 1.08
7 Northeast_African 0.82
8 Oceanian 0.64
9 Siberian 0.57
10 Amerindian 0.49

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Lithuanian 4.81
2 Estonian_Polish 8.39
3 Belorussian 8.58
4 Russian_Smolensk 9.2
5 Estonian 9.77
6 Southwest_Russian 10.63
7 Kargopol_Russian 10.92
8 Ukrainian_Belgorod 11.01
9 Erzya 11.12
10 Polish 12.22
11 East_Finnish 12.5
12 Finnish 13.61
13 Ukrainian 13.91
14 Ukrainian_Lviv 15.44
15 South_Polish 15.61
16 Southwest_Finnish 17.58
17 La_Brana-1 21.43
18 Croatian 21.51
19 Moldavian 24.22
20 North_Swedish 25.3

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 96% Lithuanian + 4% Erzya @ 4.79
2 100% Lithuanian + 0% Abhkasian @ 4.81
3 100% Lithuanian + 0% Adygei @ 4.81
4 100% Lithuanian + 0% Afghan_Pashtun @ 4.81
5 100% Lithuanian + 0% Afghan_Tadjik @ 4.81
6 100% Lithuanian + 0% Afghan_Turkmen @ 4.81
7 100% Lithuanian + 0% Aghan_Hazara @ 4.81
8 100% Lithuanian + 0% Algerian @ 4.81
9 100% Lithuanian + 0% Algerian_Jewish @ 4.81
10 100% Lithuanian + 0% Altaian @ 4.81
11 100% Lithuanian + 0% Armenian @ 4.81
12 100% Lithuanian + 0% Ashkenazi @ 4.81
13 100% Lithuanian + 0% Assyrian @ 4.81
14 100% Lithuanian + 0% Austrian @ 4.81
15 100% Lithuanian + 0% Austroasiatic_Ho @ 4.81
16 100% Lithuanian + 0% Azeri @ 4.81
17 100% Lithuanian + 0% Balkar @ 4.81
18 100% Lithuanian + 0% Balochi @ 4.81
19 100% Lithuanian + 0% Bangladeshi @ 4.81
20 100% Lithuanian + 0% Bantu_N.E. @ 4.81

Eurogenes K15:

Kit M344515

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 41.5
2 Eastern_Euro 20.42
3 North_Sea 17.97
4 Atlantic 16.06
5 West_Med 2.01
6 West_Asian 0.9
7 Northeast_African 0.55
8 South_Asian 0.31
9 Oceanian 0.27

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Lithuanian 5.08
2 Belorussian 8.92
3 Estonian_Polish 9.73
4 Russian_Smolensk 11.13
5 Southwest_Russian 11.42
6 Ukrainian_Belgorod 11.88
7 Estonian 12.52
8 Polish 13.06
9 South_Polish 14.57
10 Ukrainian 14.66
11 Ukrainian_Lviv 15.08
12 Kargopol_Russian 16.23
13 Erzya 16.36
14 Croatian 20.02
15 East_Finnish 20.06
16 La_Brana-1 20.62
17 Finnish 20.66
18 Southwest_Finnish 21.88
19 Moldavian 22.23
20 Hungarian 22.95

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 100% Lithuanian + 0% Abhkasian @ 5.08
2 100% Lithuanian + 0% Adygei @ 5.08
3 100% Lithuanian + 0% Afghan_Hazara @ 5.08
4 100% Lithuanian + 0% Afghan_Pashtun @ 5.08
5 100% Lithuanian + 0% Afghan_Tadjik @ 5.08
6 100% Lithuanian + 0% Afghan_Turkmen @ 5.08
7 100% Lithuanian + 0% Afghan_Uzbeki @ 5.08
8 100% Lithuanian + 0% Algerian @ 5.08
9 100% Lithuanian + 0% Algerian_Jewish @ 5.08
10 100% Lithuanian + 0% Altaian @ 5.08
11 100% Lithuanian + 0% Anzick-1 @ 5.08
12 100% Lithuanian + 0% Armenian @ 5.08
13 100% Lithuanian + 0% Ashkenazi @ 5.08
14 100% Lithuanian + 0% Assyrian @ 5.08
15 100% Lithuanian + 0% Austrian @ 5.08
16 100% Lithuanian + 0% Austroasiatic_Ho @ 5.08
17 100% Lithuanian + 0% Azeri @ 5.08
18 100% Lithuanian + 0% Balkar @ 5.08
19 100% Lithuanian + 0% Balochi @ 5.08
20 100% Lithuanian + 0% Bangladeshi @ 5.08

=============

2)

He is R1a, and part of a relatively old Baltic subclade YP420 under YP237:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP420/

Eurogenes K13:

Kit F215487

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 57.94
2 North_Atlantic 27.93
3 West_Med 7.94
4 West_Asian 3.11
5 Sub-Saharan 1.06
6 Amerindian 0.92
7 Oceanian 0.66
8 South_Asian 0.36
9 Red_Sea 0.08

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Lithuanian 4.37
2 Estonian 8.82
3 Estonian_Polish 9.09
4 Belorussian 9.12
5 Russian_Smolensk 9.63
6 Kargopol_Russian 11.73
7 Southwest_Russian 11.77
8 Ukrainian_Belgorod 11.91
9 Polish 12.18
10 East_Finnish 12.37
11 Erzya 12.55
12 Finnish 13
13 Ukrainian 14.52
14 South_Polish 15.9
15 Ukrainian_Lviv 15.97
16 Southwest_Finnish 16.71
17 La_Brana-1 20.67
18 Croatian 22.26
19 North_Swedish 24.26
20 Moldavian 25.16

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 100% Lithuanian + 0% Abhkasian @ 4.37
2 100% Lithuanian + 0% Adygei @ 4.37
3 100% Lithuanian + 0% Afghan_Pashtun @ 4.37
4 100% Lithuanian + 0% Afghan_Tadjik @ 4.37
5 100% Lithuanian + 0% Afghan_Turkmen @ 4.37
6 100% Lithuanian + 0% Aghan_Hazara @ 4.37
7 100% Lithuanian + 0% Algerian @ 4.37
8 100% Lithuanian + 0% Algerian_Jewish @ 4.37
9 100% Lithuanian + 0% Altaian @ 4.37
10 100% Lithuanian + 0% Armenian @ 4.37
11 100% Lithuanian + 0% Ashkenazi @ 4.37
12 100% Lithuanian + 0% Assyrian @ 4.37
13 100% Lithuanian + 0% Austrian @ 4.37
14 100% Lithuanian + 0% Austroasiatic_Ho @ 4.37
15 100% Lithuanian + 0% Azeri @ 4.37
16 100% Lithuanian + 0% Balkar @ 4.37
17 100% Lithuanian + 0% Balochi @ 4.37
18 100% Lithuanian + 0% Bangladeshi @ 4.37
19 100% Lithuanian + 0% Bantu_N.E. @ 4.37
20 100% Lithuanian + 0% Bantu_S.E. @ 4.37

Eurogenes K15:

Kit F215487

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 41.37
2 North_Sea 20.07
3 Eastern_Euro 19.79
4 Atlantic 16.27
5 West_Med 1.9
6 Sub-Saharan 0.46
7 Oceanian 0.14
8 Amerindian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Lithuanian 4.93
2 Belorussian 8.96
3 Estonian_Polish 9.96
4 Russian_Smolensk 11.41
5 Estonian 11.55
6 Southwest_Russian 11.76
7 Ukrainian_Belgorod 12.35
8 Polish 12.74
9 South_Polish 14.34
10 Ukrainian 14.38
11 Ukrainian_Lviv 14.82
12 Kargopol_Russian 16.47
13 Erzya 16.91
14 East_Finnish 19.6
15 Finnish 19.77
16 La_Brana-1 20.02
17 Croatian 20.1
18 Southwest_Finnish 20.99
19 Moldavian 22.37
20 Hungarian 22.55

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 100% Lithuanian + 0% Abhkasian @ 4.93
2 100% Lithuanian + 0% Adygei @ 4.93
3 100% Lithuanian + 0% Afghan_Hazara @ 4.93
4 100% Lithuanian + 0% Afghan_Pashtun @ 4.93
5 100% Lithuanian + 0% Afghan_Tadjik @ 4.93
6 100% Lithuanian + 0% Afghan_Turkmen @ 4.93
7 100% Lithuanian + 0% Afghan_Uzbeki @ 4.93
8 100% Lithuanian + 0% Algerian @ 4.93
9 100% Lithuanian + 0% Algerian_Jewish @ 4.93
10 100% Lithuanian + 0% Altaian @ 4.93
11 100% Lithuanian + 0% Anzick-1 @ 4.93
12 100% Lithuanian + 0% Armenian @ 4.93
13 100% Lithuanian + 0% Ashkenazi @ 4.93
14 100% Lithuanian + 0% Assyrian @ 4.93
15 100% Lithuanian + 0% Austrian @ 4.93
16 100% Lithuanian + 0% Austroasiatic_Ho @ 4.93
17 100% Lithuanian + 0% Azeri @ 4.93
18 100% Lithuanian + 0% Balkar @ 4.93
19 100% Lithuanian + 0% Balochi @ 4.93
20 100% Lithuanian + 0% Bangladeshi @ 4.93

Tomenable
10-03-17, 14:40
Here are four Lithuanians who have even higher levels of "Baltic" at K13:

59.04 - kit T940605
58.42 - kit T751932
58.30 - kit T589878
58.14 - kit M333034

Syky
19-03-17, 11:35
I was not able to answer your private message, don't know why. But this one from your Latvian/Lithuanian list is even more "Baltic":

Euro K13:

Kit A146377

Admix Results (sorted):



#
Population
Percent


1
Baltic
60.18


2
North_Atlantic
25.86


3
West_Med
5.87


4
West_Asian
3.75


5
Amerindian
1.6


6
Oceanian
0.85


7
Sub-Saharan
0.76


8
Red_Sea
0.42


9
South_Asian
0.35


10
Siberian
0.3


11
East_Med
0.05


12
Northeast_African
0.01



Single Population Sharing:



#
Population (source)
Distance


1
Lithuanian
6.6


2
Estonian
11.14


3
Estonian_Polish
11.22


4
Belorussian
11.24




He has also over 80% in Baltic hunter-gatherer component. Interesting peoples :)

Syky
19-03-17, 11:44
And this guy is extremely "eastern" in DV3:

Kit M085016

Admix Results (sorted):



#
Population
Percent


1
East_European
66.25


2
West_European
30.79


3
Mediterranean
2.96



Single Population Sharing:



#
Population (source)
Distance


1
Lithuanian (Dodecad)
5.05


2
Lithuanians (Behar)
7.71


3
Belorussian (Behar)
14.74



I would like to see how these people look :)

stevenarmstrong
19-03-17, 17:49
What's the "normal" percentage of "Baltic" to be found among non-Baltic Europeans? I'm 100% European-American. My people came primarily from the British Isles and the Rhineland. Yet my "Baltic" indicator seems--to me at least--quite high: 24.39 K13.

stevenarmstrong
19-03-17, 17:53
Although that Baltic influence may come from my mother's mother's father. He appears to have been of Prussian/Swedish stock...

stevenarmstrong
19-03-17, 18:20
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 50.29
2 Baltic 24.39
3 West_Med 13.41
4 East_Med 5.30
5 West_Asian 3.47

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Southeast_English @ 2.164025
2 Orcadian @ 3.848805
3 Southwest_English @ 4.637319
4 North_Dutch @ 4.644568
5 Danish @ 5.089941
6 Irish @ 5.538270
7 West_Scottish @ 5.540809
8 North_German @ 6.762066
9 Norwegian @ 7.078649
10 South_Dutch @ 7.595938
11 West_German @ 8.955740
12 Swedish @ 9.270187
13 French @ 13.401077
14 Austrian @ 15.120565
15 North_Swedish @ 15.475686
16 East_German @ 15.558745
17 Hungarian @ 20.423645
18 Spanish_Cataluna @ 21.140036
19 Southwest_French @ 22.233803
20 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 22.316618

Syky
19-03-17, 19:18
I think you look normally "British". It doesn't mean that you will have 0% Baltic if you come from Western Europe. Baltic is only name of a component that peaks in Baltic area, but covers whole Europe, predominantly Northern Europe. I think it marks mostly WHG and ANE ancestry that now peaks in Baltic peoples.

Tomenable
22-03-17, 00:11
Kit M434508 - 60.31% Baltic in Eurogenes K13.


I was not able to answer your private message, don't know why.Sorry, my Inbox was full. Now you can answer it.

Tomenable
22-03-17, 01:14
He appears to have been of Prussian/Swedish stock...

Not sure about Swedes, but Prussian Germans can score over 40% Baltic in Eurogenes K13:

http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/47776-Prussian-German-GEDmatch-results

Tomenable
23-03-17, 18:12
I would like to see how these people look :)

Probably like some other Lithuanians and Latvians.

One of these guys with over 60% Baltic is Latvian.

Guivre
26-03-17, 07:39
Nevermind, I think that I am half American makes any of my posting of results irrelevant.

srdceleva
03-04-17, 15:22
Shouldn't the Eastern European admixture maps be updated. All of these kits score barely above 40% on dodecads eastern European admixture. I've never seen anyone above 50% yet the spreadsheet listed Belarusians and Baltic populations from 50-65%. It seems way off. A full Belarusians I know only scores 37% and he'svery typical for Belarus. Most poles I see also score much lower on than what's listed on the spreadsheet. I think the spreadsheet and the admixture maps should be updated, it's misleading.

Tomenable
03-04-17, 15:26
Shouldn't the Eastern European admixture maps be updated. All of these kits score barely above 40% on dodecads eastern European admixture. I've never seen anyone above 50% yet the spreadsheet listed Belarusians and Baltic populations from 50-65%. It seems way off. A full Belarusians I know only scores 37% and he'svery typical for Belarus. Most poles I see also score much lower on than what's listed on the spreadsheet. I think the spreadsheet and the admixture maps should be updated, it's misleading.I would like to see a map of East European admixture based on Eurogenes K10:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/33866-East-European-admixture-in-Eurogenes-K10?p=505240#post505240

srdceleva
03-04-17, 15:54
Yea makes a lot more sense , I don't know what dienkes was doing when he created the spreadsheet for dodecad.

My father's results K10
Population
South Asian 1.10
Caucasus 6.95
Southwest Asian 2.59
North Amerindian + Arctic 0.33
Siberian 0.77
Mediterranean 12.76
East Asian 0.34
West African -
East European 39.78
North Atlantic 35.39

Can you share your total percentages?

srdceleva
03-04-17, 15:55
Sorry I'll post this in the other thread

srdceleva
03-04-17, 18:08
Here are results for 8 mazovians



Eurogenes K13
North_Atlantic 27.03 28.33 32.93 30.11 27.99 32.02 30.13 30.66
Baltic 51.01 52.80 47.10 48.85 45.19 41.98 43.0 42.03
West_Med 9.04 8.70 8.14 9.17 12.31 9.48 11.61 11.08
West_Asian 5.41 3.55 3.60 1.80 5.59 7.55 6.50 6.56
East_Med 5.84 4.54 4.79 5.86 5.03 6.94 5.05 6.22
Red_Sea - - 0.91 - 0.98 - - -
South_Asian 0.86 0.76 0.86 2.73 0.22 1.18 1.85 1.02
East_Asian - - - - - - - -
Siberian - 0.69 - 0.10 0.27 1.34 - 0.97
Amerindian 0.41 0.08 0.05 0.90 1.89 0.48 - 0.07
Oceanian 0.40 - 1.05 - 0.25 - - -
Northeast_African - - 0.45 0.46 - - - -
Sub-Saharan - 0.48 0.11 - 0.28 - - -

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15
North_Sea 19.58 22.51 22.57 23.01 21.90 22.25 21.24
Atlantic 16.82 14.19 21.74 15.83 15.65 19.65 19.00
Baltic 34.31 36.69 32.10 32.31 27.27 25.41 26.94
Eastern_Euro 19.78 19.24 16.04 19.81 20.82 18.22 18.49
West_Med 4.87 4.89 3.21 4.85 7.82 5.35 6.70
West_Asian 3.52 1.75 2.23 0.06 2.61 6.36 4.69
East_Med 1.13 0.44 0.60 2.08 2.19 2.70 1.09
Red_Sea - - 0.53 - 0.65 - -
South_Asian - - - 1.58 - - 1.57
Southeast_Asian - - - - - - -
Siberian - - - - - - 0.06
Amerindian - - - 0.30 1.08 - -
Oceanian - - 0.75 - - - 0.21
Northeast_African - - 0.22 0.17 - - -
Sub-Saharan - 0.27 - - - - -

PuntDNAl 15
S_Indian - 0.40 0.22 2.20 - -
Mediterranean 18.82 19.75 19.34 18.91 22.90 23.07
Siberian - 0.18 0.84 0.39 - -
Wht_Nile_River - - - - - 0.11
Amerindian - 0.38 - 0.52 1.68 -
S_African 0.38 0.67 - - - 0.26
E_Asian - - - - - -
Caucasian 6.08 5.09 5.93 4.93 5.80 8.62
NE_European 70.74 70.43 67.93 70.52 65.10 63.87
Omo_River - 0.54 0.83 - - 0.51
W_African - - - - - -
Horn_Of_Africa - - - 0.50 0.95 0.42
Oceanian 0.73 0.07 1.00 0.06 - -
Beringian - - 0.24 - 0.26 0.36
SW_Asian 3.25 2.05 3.67 1.97 3.28 2.75

Apsurdistan
01-05-17, 08:25
I got 33.53 Baltic on k13
and 21.75 on k15

Aha
09-05-17, 15:38
My data
Ukrainian, Kyiv

Baltic
K13 - 45.8
K15 - 29.1

Tomenable
14-06-17, 20:52
I would like to see how these people look :)

VDMantas (GEDmatch kit M434508): Dodecad V3 East_European 67.60

And I found his photos:

http://www3.lrs.lt/pls/inter/w5_vaizdas.nuotrauka?p_cat_id=103333&nt_id=148789&p_kalb_id=1

http://www.lrs.lt/datos/kovo11/signatarai/www_lrs.signataras-p_asm_id=240.htm

http://www3.lrs.lt/home/images/VISI/Povilionis%20V._47668-3mz_1.JPG

http://i.imgur.com/SIr0gVE.png http://www.lrs.lt/datos/kovo11/signatarai/povilionis_vidmantas.jpg

http://www7.lrs.lt/photo/ImageData9/hk619a10-c96q-7lez-ftnk-rla6c3xnwmhf.jpg

He is a politician and administrator of one of FTDNA Projects:

http://archive.is/2ov66

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/LituaniaPropria/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vidmantas_Povilionis

I never saw anyone scoring more of East_European in V3.

Except for Late Bronze Age Lithuanian sample RISE598:

Late Bronze Age RISE598 (kit M483824): East_European 68.58

Syky
28-06-17, 15:31
VDMantas (GEDmatch kit M434508): Dodecad V3 East_European 67.60

And I found his photos: ...


Looks... West Eurasian! :grin:

Ravnur
05-07-17, 02:12
Belarusian, Minsk area
K13: 51.18
K15: 33.24

Syky
05-07-17, 22:26
I think Baltic in K15 is something like "extra EHG-like" admixture. It is not very high in Yamna kits, who have much more of North Sea and Eastern Euro. It peaks in places where Latvian HGs lived in neolithic Baltic area and probably substantially influenced living Balts and Slavs. This is could also be the reason for higher levels of ANE in Balts. Look:

http://jpeg.cz/images/2017/07/05/Udwmn.jpg

selectivememri
06-07-17, 05:43
it's funny, milda muciek shows up as a cousin of mine, with the connection being 5 generations back.

Ravnur
06-07-17, 09:33
I think Baltic in K15 is something like "extra EHG-like" admixture. It is not very high in Yamna kits, who have much more of North Sea and Eastern Euro. It peaks in places where Latvian HGs lived in neolithic Baltic area and probably substantially influenced living Balts and Slavs. This is could also be the reason for higher levels of ANE in Balts. Look:


According to the results of mine and M434508 and A146377 from the above posts there is no direct conformity. All of us have for about 50% or a bit less of WHG and 20-25% of EHG by MDLP K11. So in total it's more than "Baltic" in Eurogenes K13 and at the same time "Baltic" is not only WHG or EHG separately. So I guess "Baltic" is something like WHG + EHG mix and some part of WHG is also presented in "North_Atlantic".

Syky
06-07-17, 21:06
According to the results of mine and M434508 and A146377 from the above posts there is no direct conformity. All of us have for about 50% or a bit less of WHG and 20-25% of EHG by MDLP K11. So in total it's more than "Baltic" in Eurogenes K13 and at the same time "Baltic" is not only WHG or EHG separately. So I guess "Baltic" is something like WHG + EHG mix and some part of WHG is also presented in "North_Atlantic".

I don't think that K15 Baltic=EHG, but I think the Baltic area is most EHG admixed area from Europe and has a specific "Baltic" component for this reason. Or is there another explanation for existence of this specificity? Let's dicuss.

Tomenable
06-07-17, 21:14
Or is there another explanation for existence of this specificity? Let's dicuss.

It could be also ethnic-specific genetic drift that accumulated over time, due to reproductive isolation etc. And than such a drifted population rapidly expanded (for example Slavic expansions from a small "Urheimat").

Syky
06-07-17, 22:00
It could be also ethnic-specific genetic drift that accumulated over time, due to reproductive isolation etc. And than such a drifted population rapidly expanded (for example Slavic expansions from a small "Urheimat").
Ok, I don't say no, but it doesn't explain the excess of ANE admixture and shift towards EHG or Latvian_MN in modern Balts. I think this specific admixture is the reason. They clearly deviate from other Northern Europeans to something ANE and WHG rich on PCA.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8Tkt1TBaJvc/UsfRHSy63rI/AAAAAAAAAew/-Zk2gjc1G0k/s1600/Euro.PNG

Syky
06-07-17, 22:09
Interesting, they also deviate quite much from Europe_LNBA in Lazaridis 2016 if you compare modern and ancient PCA. In this case towards something between EHG and SHG.
http://i.imgur.com/6F9849Ig.png
http://i.imgur.com/2fdrZf8.png

Ravnur
07-07-17, 09:44
I don't think that K15 Baltic=EHG, but I think the Baltic area is most EHG admixed area from Europe and has a specific "Baltic" component for this reason. Or is there another explanation for existence of this specificity? Let's dicuss.

I don't think that there is an exact border between WHG and EHG. It is mostly an artificial division based on a few aDNA samples and the reality looks like a gradient. By the way, the "pure" WHGs: F999915 (La Braña-Arintero, Mesolithic Spain, 5960-5750 BC) has 48.33 of "Baltic" in Eurogenes K13 and F999918 (Loschbour, Luxembourg, 6210-5990 BC) has 51.09. So MDLP K11 is the best tool for now to see WHG/EHG proportion and "Baltic" in Eurogenes K13 obviously doesn't fit that need.

Syky
07-07-17, 14:33
I don't think that there is an exact border between WHG and EHG. It is mostly an artificial division based on a few aDNA samples and the reality looks like a gradient. By the way, the "pure" WHGs: F999915 (La Braña-Arintero, Mesolithic Spain, 5960-5750 BC) has 48.33 of "Baltic" in Eurogenes K13 and F999918 (Loschbour, Luxembourg, 6210-5990 BC) has 51.09. So MDLP K11 is the best tool for now to see WHG/EHG proportion and "Baltic" in Eurogenes K13 obviously doesn't fit that need.

I am not talking about K13 Baltic, this is obviously a different component. I am talking about K15 Baltic. And I repeat I don't think it is only a measurement of EHG admixture. Only thing I want to suggest for discussion is that I think this component is rich in ANE-WHG continuum, because Baltic populations are special in their deviation from Europe_LNBA or Steppe_MLBA to EHG or Latvia_MN or something like that. WHGs can have this "Baltic", because they were also ancestral to this component. You are right with the artificial division in mesolithic HGs.
So what I want to say is: if you have higher K15 Baltic, you are in my opinion more "EHG-like" admixed. You have more EHG than came from Yamna through Corded Ware.
:)

Ravnur
07-07-17, 15:34
I am not talking about K13 Baltic, this is obviously a different component. I am talking about K15 Baltic. And I repeat I don't think it is only a measurement of EHG admixture. Only thing I want to suggest for discussion is that I think this component is rich in ANE-WHG continuum, because Baltic populations are special in their deviation from Europe_LNBA or Steppe_MLBA to EHG or Latvia_MN or something like that. WHGs can have this "Baltic", because they were also ancestral to this component. You are right with the artificial division in mesolithic HGs.
So what I want to say is: if you have higher K15 Baltic, you are in my opinion more "EHG-like" admixed. You have more EHG than came from Yamna through Corded Ware.
:)

I don't know :) I live in 100km from the Lithuanian border and have the same percentage of "Baltic" in K15 as the Loschbour mesolithic sample has, which is obviously WHG and all modern calculators use it as a part of WHG pattern.
I guess that the best candidate for the marker you are talking about in K15 is "Eastern_Euro". As far as I know it is based on the Kargopol Russians, who actually became Slavs not so long ago.

Syky
09-07-17, 00:35
I don't know :) I live in 100km from the Lithuanian border and have the same percentage of "Baltic" in K15 as the Loschbour mesolithic sample has, which is obviously WHG and all modern calculators use it as a part of WHG pattern.
I guess that the best candidate for the marker you are talking about in K15 is "Eastern_Euro". As far as I know it is based on the Kargopol Russians, who actually became Slavs not so long ago.

I also don't know :) Eastern Euro probably contains some Siberian admixture as it peaks in Mari and Chuvash, but it don't have to. It is a strong component in K15 admixture of early steppe cultures. I still think that Baltic is related to some extra EHG-like admixture, but it is probably also in Eastern Euro, too.
WHGs were ancestral to most of European components, so I don't know if it says something.

Tomenable
09-07-17, 03:09
There is a separate Siberian admixture on K15, so I don't think that Eastern_Euro contains Siberian.

Mari people score both Siberian and Eastern_Euro - so Eastern_Euro represents the Non-Siberian part of their ancestry, while the Siberian part is represented by Siberian component.

I have GEDmatch kits of around 300 modern ethnic Russians, and all of them score some Siberian on K13 (and on K15 most probably as well, though I didn't check all of them on K15 yet), but Early Slavic samples do not score any Siberian. So Siberian admixture in modern Russians is of Non-Slavic origin.

Interestingly, these Early Slavic samples (Markowice7, Niemcza18, RISE568) also don't score any East_Med on K15. Some of modern Poles don't score East_Med as well (for example father of mlukas doesn't get any East_Med on K15), but the majority do.

Ravnur
09-07-17, 04:06
I also don't know :) Eastern Euro probably contains some Siberian admixture as it peaks in Mari and Chuvash, but it don't have to. It is a strong component in K15 admixture of early steppe cultures. I still think that Baltic is related to some extra EHG-like admixture, but it is probably also in Eastern Euro, too.
WHGs were ancestral to most of European components, so I don't know if it says something.

Of course they can't be pure "something" as everything in Eurasia and they have some Siberian admixture, just because they live close to it. But at the same time, I think people from Volga-Ural and Northern Dvina areas are the best candidates to be EHG carriers (at least by percentage). Otherwise, as I said before, we put ourselves in an endless recursion, whereas all samples, like Loschbour, La Brana and probably Motala, which intended to be a reference of pure WHG have as much (or just a bit less) EHG as the most EHG admixed region in Europe (Baltic). So it's definitely not Baltic :) Or I understand the basic logic somehow wrong and pervertedly.

LeBrok
09-07-17, 04:49
There is a separate Siberian admixture on K15, so I don't think that Eastern_Euro contains Siberian.

Mari people score both Siberian and Eastern_Euro - so Eastern_Euro represents the Non-Siberian part of their ancestry, while the Siberian part is represented by Siberian component.

I have GEDmatch kits of around 300 modern ethnic Russians, and all of them score some Siberian on K13 (and on K15 most probably as well, though I didn't check all of them on K15 yet), but Early Slavic samples do not score any Siberian. So Siberian admixture in modern Russians is of Non-Slavic origin.

Interestingly, these Early Slavic samples (Markowice7, Niemcza18, RISE568) also don't score any East_Med on K15. Some of modern Poles don't score East_Med as well (for example father of mlukas doesn't get any East_Med on K15), but the majority do.

Markowice7, scores Siberian and American on HarappaWorld. Smaller admixtures might be missing on many of these samples and admixture proportions are out of whack due to their low quality.
It is after migration of central asian tribes into Europe and after Siberian tribes invasion of Finland and Balts. These two being most likely source of Siberian admixture also in Slavs.

Ukko
09-07-17, 05:18
Markowice7, scores Siberian and American on HarappaWorld. Smaller admixtures might be missing on many of these samples and admixture proportions are out of whack due to their low quality.
It is after migration of central asian tribes into Europe and after Siberian tribes invasion of Finland and Balts. These two being most likely source of Siberian admixture also in Slavs.

WTF are you talking about?

Fatherland
09-07-17, 06:40
Markowice7, scores Siberian and American on HarappaWorld. Smaller admixtures might be missing on many of these samples and admixture proportions are out of whack due to their low quality.
It is after migration of central asian tribes into Europe and after Siberian tribes invasion of Finland and Balts. These two being most likely source of Siberian admixture also in Slavs.
This makes great sense.

Fire Haired14
09-07-17, 08:07
I don't think that there is an exact border between WHG and EHG. It is mostly an artificial division based on a few aDNA samples and the reality looks like a gradient. By the way, the "pure" WHGs: F999915 (La Braña-Arintero, Mesolithic Spain, 5960-5750 BC) has 48.33 of "Baltic" in Eurogenes K13 and F999918 (Loschbour, Luxembourg, 6210-5990 BC) has 51.09. So MDLP K11 is the best tool for now to see WHG/EHG proportion and "Baltic" in Eurogenes K13 obviously doesn't fit that need.

Hey, Ravnur I notice you belong to mtDNA haplogroup U5b1e1. There's a little known common East European-specfic form of U5b1e1. You see I run an mtDNA blog (http://mtdnaatlas.blogspot.com/2017/06/three-new-u5b-subclades-in-eastern.html), have a collection of 20,000 mtDNA samples from Europe. I know a lot about European mtDNA. I get as many mtDNA samples as I can get. And I'm guessing the test you did on your mtDNA was really high coverage which makes your sample even more valuable. Can email your mtDNA raw data to [email protected]

Syky
09-07-17, 10:56
There is a separate Siberian admixture on K15, so I don't think that Eastern_Euro contains Siberian.

Mari people score both Siberian and Eastern_Euro - so Eastern_Euro represents the Non-Siberian part of their ancestry, while the Siberian part is represented by Siberian component.

I have GEDmatch kits of around 300 modern ethnic Russians, and all of them score some Siberian on K13 (and on K15 most probably as well, though I didn't check all of them on K15 yet), but Early Slavic samples do not score any Siberian. So Siberian admixture in modern Russians is of Non-Slavic origin.

Interestingly, these Early Slavic samples (Markowice7, Niemcza18, RISE568) also don't score any East_Med on K15. Some of modern Poles don't score East_Med as well (for example father of mlukas doesn't get any East_Med on K15), but the majority do.

In Eurogenes Basal-rich K7, Mari peoples are 21-25% East Eurasian. In K15 they are 24% Siberian, which is not pure East Eurasian component, so I think some East Eurasian can be in Eastern Euro. But it's a pure guess, maybe you are right that it is the West Eurasian part of their ancestry.

Syky
09-07-17, 11:35
Of course they can't be pure "something" as everything in Eurasia and they have some Siberian admixture, just because they live close to it. But at the same time, I think people from Volga-Ural and Northern Dvina areas are the best candidates to be EHG carriers (at least by percentage). Otherwise, as I said before, we put ourselves in an endless recursion, whereas all samples, like Loschbour, La Brana and probably Motala, which intended to be a reference of pure WHG have as much (or just a bit less) EHG as the most EHG admixed region in Europe (Baltic). So it's definitely not Baltic :) Or I understand the basic logic somehow wrong and pervertedly.

The Eastern Euro-rich peoples (Mordvins, Finns) are also close to EHG on PCA, maybe even closer than Baltics. But in admixture (and some formal stats, for example here (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/278668078_Ancient_human_genomes_suggest_three_ance stral_populations_for_present_day_Europeans) - extended data fig.7) they show some tendency to East Eurasian, so they move that way on PCA, whereas Baltics are West Eurasian only. So I think Baltic is West Eurasian and EHG-like rich. The Corded peoples probably moved to the region and mixed with local Latvia_MN population, which was on EHG-WHG line unlike other neolithic Europeans.

Ukko
10-07-17, 00:33
LeBrok gave me an infraction but still no clarification on his claim of Siberian tribes invading Finland and Baltics.

Syky
10-07-17, 15:52
LeBrok gave me an infraction but still no clarification on his claim of Siberian tribes invading Finland and Baltics.

Probably Uralic speakers...?

Tomenable
10-07-17, 18:44
Red is EHG and orange is Steppe? But Steppe was largely EHG as well, so how did they differentiate them? I guess that in Metal Age samples, red shows the excess of EHG admixture over that Steppe-derived EHG:

https://abload.de/img/z93w9use.png

Syky
11-07-17, 17:46
I think Baltic reflects some steppe + extra EHG or Latvia_MN, in other words non-steppe EHG. This is why separate eastern component exists in North European cluster - Northwesterners don't have this "Baltic" extra EHG-like admixture or is much weaker in them. This is also why Baltics share most alleles with MA1 from West Eurasians - they are largely of steppe origin as other North Europeans, but their neolithic admixture is less ENF or Basal Eurasian, but more EHG or maybe something closer to WHG than pure EHG.

50cal
03-10-18, 00:38
I'm 60.51% Baltic.

What prize do I get?

Joey37
03-10-18, 17:36
1043810440What say you on this? American, 56.4% British and Irish, 15.8 Broadly Northwest European 23andMe uploaded.

Pan
04-03-19, 00:01
Is 19.80% Baltic is K13 high for a Greek like me?


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 21.56
2 Atlantic 15.15
3 West_Asian 15.08
4 West_Med 13.59
5 Baltic 12.87
6 North_Sea 10.94
7 Eastern_Euro 8.04
8 Red_Sea 1.99

Pan
04-03-19, 00:06
Correction (the above was by K15 admixture):



#
Population
Percent


1
East_Med
26.13


2
Baltic
19.8


3
North_Atlantic
19.5


4
West_Med
17.71


5
West_Asian
13.98


6
Oceanian
1.31


7
Red_Sea
1.27


8
Sub-Saharan
0.25


9
Amerindian
0.06



Single Population Sharing:



#
Population (source)
Distance


1
Greek_Thessaly
5.45


2
Bulgarian
7.08


3
Romanian
9.63


4
Central_Greek
10.44


5
Italian_Abruzzo
11.13


6
East_Sicilian
12.02


7
West_Sicilian
12.92


8
Ashkenazi
13.21


9
Tuscan
13.43


10
Serbian
13.81


11
South_Italian
14.78


12
North_Italian
16.9


13
Moldavian
19.23


14
Italian_Jewish
20


15
Sephardic_Jewish
20.24


16
Algerian_Jewish
20.25


17
Hungarian
21.84


18
Croatian
22.24


19
Tunisian_Jewish
23.61


20
Libyan_Jewish
24.14