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Angela
14-03-17, 03:30
All we have so far is the abstract, but the paper will be out shortly.

Ancient Egyptian Mummy Genomes Suggest an Increase of Sub-Saharan African Ancestry in Post-Roman Periods

Krause et al.

Egypt, located on the isthmus of Africa, is an ideal region to study historical population dynamics due to its geographic location and documented interactions with ancient civilizations in Africa, Asia, and Europe. Particularly, in the first millennium BCE Egypt endured foreign domination leading to growing numbers of foreigners living within its borders possibly contributing genetically to the local population. Here we mtDNA and nuclear DNA from mummified humans recovered from Middle Egypt that span around 1,300 years of ancient Egyptian history from the Third Intermediate to the Roman Period. Our analyses reveal that ancient Egyptians shared more Near Eastern ancestry than present-day Egyptians, who received additional Sub-Saharan admixture in more recent times. This analysis establishes ancient Egyptian mummies as a genetic source to study ancient human history and offers the perspective of deciphering Egypt’s past at a genome-wide level.

So, I guess the "ancient mummies are from around 1300 BC to the Common Era.

If the paper proves what is in the abstract, I don't see anything too surprising here. Egypt experience an influx of farmers from the Middle East, and then in this period they're discussing you have a new influx with the Hyksos, and other historically attested movements like the Sea Peoples. To that would be added the large numbers of Greeks who made their home especially in the Delta area around their city of Alexandria.

I think a lot of people have speculated that the the Arab slave trade would have brought more SSA into Egypt, perhaps showing up in a hierarchical order, with more of it in the lower classes. Unlike many people I'm not so sure it was all West African. They also imported a lot of women slaves from East Africa from what I remember.

I hope they rather quickly publish anything they have on Old Dynasty Egypt and we can see what it was like at that time. I have a hunch it was more SSA. We have SSA yDna in Pharoahs, and the Nubian dynasty as well.

I wonder if Copts will be the closest to the first millennium BC Egyptians?

davef
14-03-17, 05:18
OH MAN I am feing euphoric at the moment! I've been WAITING for a study done on Ancient Egyptian dna for who knows how long and now it's here! Thank you for posting this !!!

Also looking forward to Ancient Greek dna samples.

davef
14-03-17, 05:20
Grrrrrr come on people !!! Release the paper!!!! I'm dying to see it!

Cindy90
14-03-17, 07:24
Wow. This is really exciting!

Maciamo
14-03-17, 08:52
Sounds interesting, especially since Ramesses III of the 20th dynasty (1189-1077 BCE) belong to the Sub-Saharan African E1b1a. That would mean that common folk were Near Eastern-like, but the ruling elite at the time were of SSA ancestry. Of course that's juts one dynasty, so it doesn't mean much. We'll see.

bicicleur
14-03-17, 09:42
The Third Intermediate Period of Ancient Egypt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egypt) began with the death of Pharaoh (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharaoh) Ramesses XI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramesses_XI) in 1070 BC

that is after the invasion of the Hyksos and the Sea Peoples

Fire Haired14
14-03-17, 11:23
The paper won't be out soon. Usually takes at least a year to be published after it is made public.

ngc598
14-03-17, 14:54
Sounds interesting, especially since Ramesses III of the 20th dynasty (1189-1077 BCE) belong to the Sub-Saharan African E1b1a. That would mean that common folk were Near Eastern-like, but the ruling elite at the time were of SSA ancestry. Of course that's juts one dynasty, so it doesn't mean much. We'll see.
His father Sethnacht likely was a commoner with unclear circumstances of his coming into power. There were some years of lawnessness during Tauseret's reign and he managed somehow to first co-rule and then pretty fast succeeding her after two years. So SSA lineages were not necessarily the elite during that time.

Alan
14-03-17, 20:13
I hope they rather quickly publish anything they have on Old Dynasty Egypt and we can see what it was like at that time. I have a hunch it was more SSA. We have SSA yDna in Pharoahs, and the Nubian dynasty as well.

I wonder if Copts will be the closest to the first millennium BC Egyptians?






There is actually one SSA kinda yDNA in the pharoahs and it is E1b1a. But by now we should know how yDNA can be misleading. Contrary I expect that the Old Dynasty Egyptians will be even less SSA and more like Levant_Neo or Natufians. And with time Nubian admixture should have effected them.

I expect that we will see an increase of SSA admixture during the Nubian period in South Egypt and in late Egypt during the Slave trade and later Islamic expansion.

Alan
14-03-17, 20:14
Sounds interesting, especially since Ramesses III of the 20th dynasty (1189-1077 BCE) belong to the Sub-Saharan African E1b1a. That would mean that common folk were Near Eastern-like, but the ruling elite at the time were of SSA ancestry. Of course that's juts one dynasty, so it doesn't mean much. We'll see.

The sequenced samples in this study are of royal background as far as I remember.
yDNA can always be misleading even in modern Egypt there are like ~10% E1b1a.

What this study basically shows and what most people without an Eurocentric or Afrocentric agenda should have known is.

modern Egypt ~ ancient Egypt.

less SSA doesn't mean there was a lack of it, just that it was less. But I expect some variation from dynasty to dynasty and region to region.

Angela
14-03-17, 20:39
The Third Intermediate Period of Ancient Egypt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egypt) began with the death of Pharaoh (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharaoh) Ramesses XI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramesses_XI) in 1070 BC

that is after the invasion of the Hyksos and the Sea Peoples

So the samples are from 1070 BC forward, and after the Hyksos and Sea Peoples, but also after the time of Rameses III and his SSA yDna, yes? Interesting.

As others have said, in either case it's elite people, so the common people could be different.

I honestly never thought I'd live to see the day that some of these questions would be answered.

bicicleur
14-03-17, 22:25
As others have said, in either case it's elite people, so the common people could be different.

I honestly never thought I'd live to see the day that some of these questions would be answered.

wikipedia learns already something about the rulers .. Lybians and Nubians

I guess, originaly in Egypt, the common people were in majority Natufians coming from the Levant, as it was them who introduced agriculture in Northern Africa

holderlin
30-05-17, 20:49
I posted a thread, then was alerted to the initial discussion on the abstract


First Genomes from Ancient Egypt

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15694

Check it out.

Very little SSA compared to modern Egyptians, and very similar to Bronze Age Levant

The three males were two J's and one E1b1b1a1b2

Alan
31-05-17, 12:21
As I thought, Ancient Egyptians look like a Levant_BA or Levant_ late Neolithic population rather than Levant_Neolithic/Natufian. So ancient EGyptians might indeed be a Bronze Age arrival in the region, explains their more modern Middle Eastern like DNA in comparison to other North Africans who look like Levant_Neolithic without much Iran_Neo/CHL ancestry.

Jovialis
02-06-17, 00:08
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxjXJmMxqBk

Here's an interesting video with an Egyptian man reading his DNA results from Ancestry DNA.

I kind of figured the Egyptians had strong connections to the neolithic farmers, based on the geographic proximity. The fertile Nile valley would have attracted people with those skills, to survive there.

The increase of sub-Saharan African DNA could have happened after the Nubian conquest in 760 BC. Afterwards, there was the establishment of the 25th Dynasty, that lasted until 656 BC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Dynasty_of_Egypt