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Genetiker
15-03-17, 00:15
In the two latest posts on my blog, I have confirmed my 2015 discovery that a Chinchorro DNA sample from Chile dated to 3972–3806 BC contains 30% European admixture:

Principal component analysis confirms European admixture in Chinchorro DNA (https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2017/03/14/principal-component-analysis-confirms-european-admixture-in-chinchorro-dna/)

qpAdm analysis confirms European admixture in Chinchorro DNA (https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2017/03/14/qpadm-analysis-confirms-european-admixture-in-chinchorro-dna/)

holderlin
15-03-17, 05:27
Hmm.........

Coriolan
15-03-17, 08:19
What kind of European DNA did they carry? Is that WHG, EHG, something else?

Genetiker
15-03-17, 17:51
What kind of European DNA did they carry? Is that WHG, EHG, something else?

I've done some higher-resolution admixture analyses, and the only samples that have a pattern of Caucasoid components similar to the pattern in the Chinchorro sample are the pre-LGM European samples. So I currently think that the European admixture in the Chinchorro sample is from western Aurignacians, western Gravettians, or Solutreans.

Huitzilopochtli
15-03-17, 18:02
How did it get to South America? If European HGs had boats and they came to America early, shouldn't we see signs of them all along the coast from New England south? Why wasn't the admixture distributed over the entire population after thousands of years of colonization?

MarkoZ
17-03-17, 18:40
The Mal'ta boy who has a particularly strong affinity to Americans had a distinctively Gravettian material culture. Perhaps some of the structure observed in American populations ultimately came from this Western source.

I personally wouldn't call this influence 'European' though. If it turns out to be real, it would be equally American of course.

Genetiker
18-03-17, 04:21
I've posted the first of a series of high-resolution analyses of the European admixture in the Chinchorro sample on my blog:

High-resolution K = 4 analysis of the European admixture in Chinchorro DNA (https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2017/03/18/high-resolution-k-4-analysis-of-the-european-admixture-in-chinchorro-dna/)

If my belief about the source of the European admixture is correct, then the pattern of non-Amerindian components in the Chinchorro sample should continue to be similar to the pattern of components seen in the pre-LGM European samples.

LeBrok
18-03-17, 04:48
I don't understand what connection would have blondish traits of Chinchorro mummies to pre LGM Europeans? There were no blond Europeans back then.
Connection to pre LGM Europeans could be through archaic admixtures.
Can Chinchorro be uploaded to GedMatch?

bicicleur
18-03-17, 09:56
I don't understand what connection would have blondish traits of Chinchorro mummies to pre LGM Europeans? There were no blond Europeans back then.
Connection to pre LGM Europeans could be through archaic admixtures.
Can Chinchorro be uploaded to GedMatch?


why blondish?
would that be included in the 29 % European-like admixture?

Genetiker
18-03-17, 15:58
I don't understand what connection would have blondish traits of Chinchorro mummies to pre LGM Europeans? There were no blond Europeans back then.

Someone made a similar comment (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?9982-Principal-component-and-qpAdm-analyses-confirm-European-admixture-in-Chinchorro-DNA&p=220163&viewfull=1#post220163) on the Anthrogenica thread.

The Chinchorro mummies had brown and chestnut hair, and it's not clear what their skin color was. Only mummies from later Peruvian and Chilean cultures had blond and red hair and white skin.

holderlin
18-03-17, 18:39
I've done some higher-resolution admixture analyses, and the only samples that have a pattern of Caucasoid components similar to the pattern in the Chinchorro sample are the pre-LGM European samples. So I currently think that the European admixture in the Chinchorro sample is from western Aurignacians, western Gravettians, or Solutreans.

These populations are too old to be called "European" though I would say.

johen
18-03-17, 19:47
The Chinchorro mummies had brown and chestnut hair, and it's not clear what their skin color was. Only mummies from later Peruvian and Chilean cultures had blond and red hair and white skin.

I think skin or hair color is not important factor. As I rememebered, you already mentioned that afontova Gora had 1 light skin gene. Moreover, Mongoloid has EDAR, which SHG and Afanasivevo persons had.

Important thing is plains Indians and Tehuelche people belong to UP type by Coon.
Especially blackfoot Indians among plain Indians have lots of R1 and X. C. Loring Brace also classified them as UP type.

Moreover, Tehuelche people are giants, who are indigenous peoples of Patagonia and the southern pampas regions of Argentina and Chile.


The Patagones or Patagonian giants are a race of people, who first began to appear in early European accounts of the then little-known region and coastline of Patagonia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patagonia). They were supposed to have exceeded at least double normal human height, some accounts giving heights of 12 to 15 feet (3.7 to 4.6 m) or more. Tales of these people would take a hold over European concepts of the region for some 250 years.
http://hoaxes.org/images/PatGiant.jpg

As we know, giants warriors appeared at bronze age. Among ancient people in Amreica, Giants in Adena culure are virtually identical to bell beaker people. Carlton Stephen Coons said:

Where Bell Beaker burials are found in central Europe, the skeletons are almost always of the same tall brachycephalic type…”

“…the browridges are often heavy, the general ruggedness frequently greater. The faces are characteristically narrow, the orbits medium to high, the nasal skeleton high and aquiline; the occiput frequently flat.”
“They form one of the rare groups in the world with a cranial length of 184mm and an index of over 80.

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/33566-Was-Afontova-Gora-an-ancestor-of-Afanasievo-yamna-or-not
http://www.ancient-origins.net/ancient-places-americas/adena-people-and-prehistoric-colonization-north-america-003342

so I think it is not special for them to have UP admixture.

johen
18-03-17, 19:49
delete...........

ThirdTerm
18-03-17, 22:53
The analysis includes ancient and modern Amerindian and Caucasoid samples. Some of the Mayan, Bolivian, and Quechua samples, which my admixture analyses have shown to contain up to 17% European admixture, are shifted to the right of the more pure Amerindian samples, toward the Caucasoid samples. To the right of them is a Mixtec sample which is 23.5% European, and to the right of that Mixtec sample is the 30% European Chinchorro mummy sample.


This analysis is consistent with the results from a previous study by Raghavan et al. (2014) which estimated that 14 to 38% of Native American ancestry may originate through gene flow from the ancient population associated with MA-1. MA-1 is basal to modern-day western Eurasians and it carried mtDNA haplogroup U, which is common among European hunter-gatherers. But European admixture detected in Chinchorro DNA samples does not translate into typical European physical traits. According to Fu et al. (2016), MA-1 completely lacks light-skin mutations such as SLC45A2, SLC24A5 and HERC2.

https://s1.postimg.org/mlcpdv4rz/nature17993_st5.jpg

johen
19-03-17, 00:03
@MOESAN (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/members/29830-MOESAN)

ARE they similar?

First one is Native Peruvian from the fifteenth century, ignore the others
http://www.harunyahya.com/image/Darwinism_refuted/181_skulls_1.png
Andronovo
http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/60_Genetics/Ismagulov/BC_1700Fig4NeolythBronzeSkullIsmagulov.gif

Genetiker
19-03-17, 18:11
This analysis is consistent with the results from a previous study by Raghavan et al. (2014) which estimated that 14 to 38% of Native American ancestry may originate through gene flow from the ancient population associated with MA-1. MA-1 is basal to modern-day western Eurasians and it carried mtDNA haplogroup U, which is common among European hunter-gatherers. But European admixture detected in Chinchorro DNA samples does not translate into typical European physical traits. According to Fu et al. (2016), MA-1 completely lacks light-skin mutations such as SLC45A2, SLC24A5 and HERC2.

First, I was the first person to ever show using DNA that all Amerindians are Mongoloid-Caucasoid hybrids, and I did so eight months before Willerslev and his associates took credit for "revealing" it in the 2014 paper that you mention, which was first published online in November 2013. I was attacked by Dienekes and regarded as a "kook" for saying so, at a time when everybody believed David Reich's preposterous claim that Northern Europeans are Mediterranean-Amerindian hybrids.

Second, the admixture, principal component, and qpAdm analyses are showing that the Chinchorro sample has a significant amount of Caucasoid admixture beyond what all Amerindians received from their Mal'ta-like Y haplogroup Q male ancestors from Siberia. And they're showing that that additional Caucasoid admixture is not genetically related to the Y haplogroup R and Q Mal'ta and Afontova Gora people of Siberia, but instead to the Y haplogroup C1a2 and I Aurignacians and Gravettians of Western and Central Europe. The Europeans who contributed the additional Caucasoid admixture to the Chinchorro people must have crossed the Atlantic to arrive in the Americas. The Solutreans, who lived during the LGM, may have been more genetically similar to the pre-LGM Western European hunter-gatherers than to the post-LGM Western European hunter-gatherers, and of course there's a mountain of archeological evidence proving the presence of the Solutreans in the Americas. The Solutreans may well be the source of the additional Caucasoid admixture in the Chinchorro sample.

Third, the presence of European DNA in the Chinchorro sample which is distinct from the Mal'ta-related Siberian DNA found in all Amerindians is consistent with the physical features of the Chinchorro mummies, which are distinct from typical Amerindian features. There are numerous photographs of Chinchorro mummies in my White Gods post (https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2013/03/26/the-white-gods/) from four years ago, and those photographs show that the Chinchorro people had wavy brown and chestnut European hair, and not stiff black Mongoloid Amerindian hair. They also show that many of the Chinchorro mummies have the narrow, oval faces typical of Europeans, and not the large, round, wide faces typical of Amerindians.

holderlin
19-03-17, 20:37
I think skin or hair color is not important factor. As I remembered, you already mentioned that afontova Gora had 1 light skin gene. Moreover, Mongoloid has EDAR, which SHG and Afanasivevo persons had.

Important thing is plains Indians and Tehuelche people belong to UP type by Coon.
Especially blackfoot Indians among plain Indians have lots of R1 and X. C. Loring Brace also classified them as UP type.

Moreover, Tehuelche people are giants, who are indigenous peoples of Patagonia and the southern pampas regions of Argentina and Chile.


http://hoaxes.org/images/PatGiant.jpg

As we know, giants warriors appeared at bronze age. Giants in Adena culure are virtually identical to bell beaker people. Carlton Stephen Coons said:


http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/33566-Was-Afontova-Gora-an-ancestor-of-Afanasievo-yamna-or-not
http://www.ancient-origins.net/ancient-places-americas/adena-people-and-prehistoric-colonization-north-america-003342

so I think it is not special for them to have UP admixture. There were no giants, C'mon

holderlin
19-03-17, 21:10
In the two latest posts on my blog, I have confirmed my 2015 discovery that a Chinchorro DNA sample from Chile dated to 3972–3806 BC contains 30% European admixture:

Principal component analysis confirms European admixture in Chinchorro DNA (https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2017/03/14/principal-component-analysis-confirms-european-admixture-in-chinchorro-dna/)

qpAdm analysis confirms European admixture in Chinchorro DNA (https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2017/03/14/qpadm-analysis-confirms-european-admixture-in-chinchorro-dna/) Forgive me if this is obvious in your data sets, but can you show that this isn't MA-1?

JS Bach
21-03-17, 04:03
Awesome find, Genetiker!

If you look at the admixture bar graphs of the Bell Beakers and compare them to those of the modern European populations, the Bell Beakers have much greater variation among them in their component proportions than do the modern Europeans. I read that this is due to the algorithms having trouble assigning the categories to them, as they lack the mutations that have accumulated since their time. It therefore makes sense to me that the much older samples would show even greater variability in this regard, and that much more so with the pre-LGM samples. And additionally to that, if they did cross the Atlantic, say, 30,000 years ago, then with the Chinchorro samples being only about 6,000 years old, the mutations that would have accumulated during that intervening time period would I would think make the algorithms have even more trouble ascertaining the component proportions, including the Amerindian component.

I'd be interested in hearing rebuttals to this.

Genetiker
02-05-17, 04:26
I've written a paper on my discovery of European admixture in a Chinchorro mummy DNA sample, and it's now published on bioRxiv:

European admixture in Chinchorro DNA (http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/05/01/132555)

Genetiker
02-05-17, 04:30
Awesome find, Genetiker!

If you look at the admixture bar graphs of the Bell Beakers and compare them to those of the modern European populations, the Bell Beakers have much greater variation among them in their component proportions than do the modern Europeans. I read that this is due to the algorithms having trouble assigning the categories to them, as they lack the mutations that have accumulated since their time. It therefore makes sense to me that the much older samples would show even greater variability in this regard, and that much more so with the pre-LGM samples. And additionally to that, if they did cross the Atlantic, say, 30,000 years ago, then with the Chinchorro samples being only about 6,000 years old, the mutations that would have accumulated during that intervening time period would I would think make the algorithms have even more trouble ascertaining the component proportions, including the Amerindian component.

I'd be interested in hearing rebuttals to this.

Good points. In my paper I mention that thousands of years of genetic drift could complicate the task of identifying the exact source of the European admixture in the Chinchorro sample.

Fire Haired14
02-05-17, 06:33
There were no blond Europeans back then.


There certainly could have been.

aligzanduh
22-05-18, 08:50
Where is the DNA information and how did you get it? Has the data been published? Cheers