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Maciamo
16-03-17, 12:18
BritainsDNA is the only testing (AFAIK) that ventures to attribute nicknames to haplogroups and common subclades based on ancient ethnic groups, tribes or geographic regions. This can be a hazardous business as it is quite challenging to find a short moniker that accurately describes the origins of an entire branch (or wig) or humanity. The difficulty lies in the fact that top-level haplogroups are extremely old (typically dating from the Ice Age), and subclades are so numerous that one has to choose carefully the right depth to match the expansion of historical ethnic groups. Obviously they didn't put much thought into it as their descriptions are often more farcical than factual. It is not all wrong, but at least half of it should be discarded.

Below you'll the list of nicknames used by BritainsDNA and my comments in the right column to describe their accuracy and offer a better alternative.




BritainsDNA SNP name
BritainsDNA nickname
Critique


A1b-M13
Nilotic
Too restrictive. It's found in many arts of Sub-Saharan Africa, but is most common among the San people of Southern Africa.


B
Pacific Rim
Utterly wrong. It's Sub-Saharan African.


C-M216
Ancient Asian
Palaeolithic Eurasian would be more correct, as it is also European (C1a2).


D2-M55
Jomon
Correct


E1b1b-M123 (formerly E-M34)
Saracen
Too restrictive. Neolithic Levantine and Proto-Semitic are better.


E1b1b-M310 (formerly E-M81)
Berber
Acceptable - although the origins of M81 remain unclear and most European M81 is probably not of Berber origin.


E1a-M33
Mali
Too restrictive. Sahel fits more the geographic distribution.


E1b1b-M35
Elmenteitan
If it excludes its M78, M123 and M81 subclades, then it's reasonable, but otherwise not.


E1b1b-M78
Luxor
This is nonsensical. Why name it after a city? 'Red Sea' would be better.


E-P1
Niger-Congo
What is P1?


E-V13
Balkans
Ok in terms of highest frequency today, but confusing as it was probably spread by the Indo-Europeans during the Bronze Age.


E-V22
Ancient Egyptian
Ok, but also ancient Levant and Ethiopia, so Red Sea is more appropriate.


G-S314
Ancient Caucasian
Haplogroup G* is nearly 50,000 years old. Why even try to link it to some ethnicity? G2a is Neolithic Anatolian farmers.


H1a1-M82
Romani
Correct


I1-M253
Teutonic
Ok, but confusing as Teutonic means either Germanic or one specific Germanic tribe (the Teutons). 'Germanic' would be preferable.


I2a2a-M284
Ancient British
Ok, and more specifically Neolithic or Megalithic Britons.


I2a1-P37
Gaul
Nobody belongs to P37 without further subclade. Why list it? It is certainly not Gaulish, but Mesolithic European.


I1-S142 (aka L22)
Scandinavian
Correct


I-S155 (aka L38)
Rhineland
Too restrictive. 'North Alpine Celtic' os something similar would be better.


I2a2a-S165 (aka L126)
Caledonian
Just a subclade of M284 that formed in the Bronze Age. 'Brythonic' would be better as it is not specifically Scottish.


I2a1b-S185 (aka L161.1)
Deer hunters
It's Mesolithic European (many were deer hunters, but that's not a proper appellation as it is too vague)


I1-S1954 (formerly S197) (aka YSC261)
Anglo Saxon
It is definitely Germanic, but is widely distributed over Scandinavia and continental Europe, so surely not just Anglo-Saxon.


I2a1a-S21825 (formerly I-S183)
Chauci
Mesolithic European. It formed some 15,000 years ago.


I2a2a-S24 (aka M223)
Saxon
Once again Mesolithic European. Saxon might be correct for some subclades of the Germanic I2a2a-L801, but not for M223, as it also includes branches associated with the Yamna and Corded Ware cultures.


I2c-S333 (aka L597)
Thracian
It is Palaeolithic and Mesolithic European. Nothing else can be said at that level as it formed over 20,000 years ago.


I2a1b-S392 (aka L621)
Illyrian
It is Mesolithic European like L161.1, but modern carriers belong mostly to the CTS10228 clade, which is Slavic. It is not Illyrian anyway.


I2a1a-S433 (formerly I-M26)
Nuragic
It is Palaeolithic and Mesolithic European. The Nuragic/Sardinian branch is one of its subclade only, L160, which formed during the Neolithic.


J-M172
Herdsman Farmer
Palaeolithic and Mesolithic Caucasians mostly, although it is correct that their descendants became some of the first Neolithic herders and farmers.


J-M267
Arabian
How completely wrong. The Arabian J1 is much much deeper in the phylogeny, downstream of the Semitic L858 branch.


L-M11
Dravidian
Haplogroup H corresponds to the Dravidians. Haplogroup L is centred around Pakistan and is associated with the Harappa culture. But L* is in itself Palaeolithic South Asia or Iranian Plateau.


N-M231
Siberian
Wrong. Haplogroup N originated in East Asia (probably China) and only spread to Mongolia and Siberia during the Neolithic.


N1c-M46 (aka Tat)
Uralic
Once again the depth of subclade is wrong. N1c dates from Neolithic China. The Uralic branches are only the much deeper Z1936 and CTS9976.


O-P191 (formerly O-P186)
Sunda
Nonsense. Haplogroup O* originated over 30,000 years ago, probably around China, not Indonesia (Sunda).


Q-M242
Altai (formerly Yenisei)
Why only Altai? This is a properly ancient Siberian haplogroup, but also the main lineage of Native Americans.


R1A- M17 (formerly R1a-M512)
Pit Grave Culture
I'd say north-west Pit Grave (Yamna) culture and especially Corded Ware culture.


R1a-S198 (aka Z282)
Kurgan
Kurgan/tumulus is too vague as it spans from the Chalcolithc to the Iron Age, from the Steppe to Western Europe. It includes Proto-Balto-Slavic and Proto-Germanic branches. Anyway nobody belongs only to S198 without further subclade nowadays, so why mention it?


R1a-S202 (aka Z93)
Indo-Iranian
Correct.


R1a-S298 (aka L664)
Yamna (formerly Brythonic)
Incorrect. S298/L664 formed during the Corded Ware culture, after Yamna was over and after leaving the Steppe. It spread in later Proto-Germanic societies. I would jus call it 'Germanic'.


R1a-S443 (aka Z289)
Norse Viking
Scandinavian Germanic is more accurate as it long predates the Viking, but it is true that it was diffused outside Scandinavia mostly by the Norwegian and Swedish Vikings. 'Norse Viking' is redundant though as the Vikings were Norse.


R1b-M153
Basque
Correct


R1b-M222
Ancient Irish
Correct, although this subclade is more medieval than really ancient. Its associated with the descendants of Niall of the Nine Hostages.


R1b-M269
Anatolian
Misleading. Once again nobody belongs just to M269* today, and the whole branch is so vast that there is no suitable name to encompass it all. It is not even clear if M269 developed in Anatolia, the Caucasus, Russia or elsewhere.


R1b-S1136
Eoganachta
Actually the Eoganachta surnames are found within a deep subclade of S1136, under A1134.


R1b-S116 (aka P312)
Beaker Folk (formerly Bell Beaker and Hunter Gatherer)
Misleading. R1b-S116 were the invaders of the Bell Beaker culture. They were certainly not hunter-gatherers.


R1b-S145 (aka L21)
Pretani
What do they mean by Pretani? Northwest European Celts is clearer.


R1b-S168 (aka L226)
Dalcassian
Probably correct. Known as Irish Type III and found mostly in SW Ireland.


R1b-S169 (aka L159.2)
Hibernians
S169 is a medieval subclade within the Irish Sea haplotype. It is too young to be called 'Hibernian' though.


R1b-S182 (aka L238)
Norse
Correct.


R1b-S190
Maeatae
Part of the Little Scottish cluster around the Firth of Forth. It dates from the early Middle Ages and is too northern to be Maeatae.


R1b-S21 (aka U106)
Germanic
More Proto-Celto-Germanic, but essentially Germanic.


R1b-S28 (aka U152)
Alpine
Ok, but includes both Alpine Celts and Italics.


R1b-S300 (aka L371)
Ancient Welsh
Ok, but maybe be more widely Insular Celtic.


R1b-S388 (was S466)
Royal Stewart
Actually the Royal Stuart branch is the S781 subclade of S388.


R1b-S530 (aka L1335)
Gododdin
Maybe. S530 is a most Lowland Scottish clade, also found in northern Ireland.


R1b-S68 (aka L165)
Hebridean Viking
Very doubtful. This is a Bronze Age clade of DF27 found almost exclusively in Britain, with a very small percentage in Scandinavia. It was most probably imported by the Vikings from Scotland to Scandinavia and not the other way round.


R1b-S735 ( was S530) (aka L1065)
Pictish
A mostly Scottish clade whose last common ancestor lived 1800 years ago. Too young to be called Pictish, but it is Scottish.


R1b-SRY2627 (aka M167)
Iberian
Not just Iberian, but West European. In fact SRY2627 may have originated in Britain and spread to France and Iberia with the Atlantic Bronze Age trade.


R2-M479
Harappan
Wrong. R2 is found mostly in south and east India and Southeast Asia, but is rare in Pakistan. 'Bay of Bengal' would be a better description.


T-M184
Babylon
Much too restrictive. Neolithic Near Eastern farmers.




The verdict: out of 59 haplogroups or subclades in the list, 18 are completely wrong or mostly wrong, 17 descriptions are too restrictive to be acceptable, 17 are acceptable but could be better rephrased, and only 7 are really correct.

Among those wrong, I would suggest to remove completely G-S314, I2a1-P37, J-M267, N-M231, O-P191, R1a-Z282, R1b-M269 and R2-M479, because they do not match any single ethnic group and all people who are positive for these SNPs will be positive for large subclades that do match ethnic groups. The same is true for all I2 subclades listed, for which some valid ethnic groups were mentioned by the depth of subclade was not appropriate.

zanipolo
16-03-17, 19:20
Other names for haplogroups like this ftdna project

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/TowerofBabel?iframe=ycolorized


This is a research project created to trace today's population back to the Table of Nations of Genesis Chapter 10 and the diaspora of Genesis 11.
(https://www.familytreedna.com/public/TowerofBabel?iframe=ycolorized)

Maciamo
17-03-17, 10:38
Other names for haplogroups like this ftdna project

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/TowerofBabel?iframe=ycolorized


This is a research project created to trace today's population back to the Table of Nations of Genesis Chapter 10 and the diaspora of Genesis 11.
(https://www.familytreedna.com/public/TowerofBabel?iframe=ycolorized)


This is just the fantasy of some Bible lovers. It's not part of the official results delivered by FTDNA. In BritainsDNA's case it is the information people get with their test results and many lay people trust this as facts coming from "scientists".

Rethel
01-04-17, 15:10
.................................................. .....

Rethel
01-04-17, 15:12
................................................

larhee
09-02-18, 16:00
there are apparently similar marker identifications for regions of Scotland. Is anyone familiar with these ?

Joey37
17-07-18, 14:50
I am kurgan

DavidCoutts
18-07-18, 00:19
I am kurgan

There can be only one!

Salento
18-07-18, 01:59
There can be only one!
Highlander Sean Connery Y, mtDNA, and Ancestry results would be very interesting.
If they are out there, please share the link.
“The Quickening” :smile:

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/5c/69/f7/5c69f7da28fd134aaeb4310879b7bb88--christophe-lambert-sean-connery.jpg

firetown
20-07-18, 06:16
This is a great intro into y-DNA haplogroups. Is there something similar for mtDNA ones?

Gabriele Pashaj
20-07-18, 09:21
BritainsDNA is the only testing (AFAIK) that ventures to attribute nicknames to haplogroups and common subclades based on ancient ethnic groups, tribes or geographic regions. This can be a hazardous business as it is quite challenging to find a short moniker that accurately describes the origins of an entire branch (or wig) or humanity. The difficulty lies in the fact that top-level haplogroups are extremely old (typically dating from the Ice Age), and subclades are so numerous that one has to choose carefully the right depth to match the expansion of historical ethnic groups. Obviously they didn't put much thought into it as their descriptions are often more farcical than factual. It is not all wrong, but at least half of it should be discarded.

Below you'll the list of nicknames used by BritainsDNA and my comments in the right column to describe their accuracy and offer a better alternative.




BritainsDNA SNP name
BritainsDNA nickname
Critique


A1b-M13
Nilotic
Too restrictive. It's found in many arts of Sub-Saharan Africa, but is most common among the San people of Southern Africa.


B
Pacific Rim
Utterly wrong. It's Sub-Saharan African.


C-M216
Ancient Asian
Palaeolithic Eurasian would be more correct, as it is also European (C1a2).


D2-M55
Jomon
Correct


E1b1b-M123 (formerly E-M34)
Saracen
Too restrictive. Neolithic Levantine and Proto-Semitic are better.


E1b1b-M310 (formerly E-M81)
Berber
Acceptable - although the origins of M81 remain unclear and most European M81 is probably not of Berber origin.


E1a-M33
Mali
Too restrictive. Sahel fits more the geographic distribution.


E1b1b-M35
Elmenteitan
If it excludes its M78, M123 and M81 subclades, then it's reasonable, but otherwise not.


E1b1b-M78
Luxor
This is nonsensical. Why name it after a city? 'Red Sea' would be better.


E-P1
Niger-Congo
What is P1?


E-V13
Balkans
Ok in terms of highest frequency today, but confusing as it was probably spread by the Indo-Europeans during the Bronze Age.


E-V22
Ancient Egyptian
Ok, but also ancient Levant and Ethiopia, so Red Sea is more appropriate.


G-S314
Ancient Caucasian
Haplogroup G* is nearly 50,000 years old. Why even try to link it to some ethnicity? G2a is Neolithic Anatolian farmers.


H1a1-M82
Romani
Correct


I1-M253
Teutonic
Ok, but confusing as Teutonic means either Germanic or one specific Germanic tribe (the Teutons). 'Germanic' would be preferable.


I2a2a-M284
Ancient British
Ok, and more specifically Neolithic or Megalithic Britons.


I2a1-P37
Gaul
Nobody belongs to P37 without further subclade. Why list it? It is certainly not Gaulish, but Mesolithic European.


I1-S142 (aka L22)
Scandinavian
Correct


I-S155 (aka L38)
Rhineland
Too restrictive. 'North Alpine Celtic' os something similar would be better.


I2a2a-S165 (aka L126)
Caledonian
Just a subclade of M284 that formed in the Bronze Age. 'Brythonic' would be better as it is not specifically Scottish.


I2a1b-S185 (aka L161.1)
Deer hunters
It's Mesolithic European (many were deer hunters, but that's not a proper appellation as it is too vague)


I1-S1954 (formerly S197) (aka YSC261)
Anglo Saxon
It is definitely Germanic, but is widely distributed over Scandinavia and continental Europe, so surely not just Anglo-Saxon.


I2a1a-S21825 (formerly I-S183)
Chauci
Mesolithic European. It formed some 15,000 years ago.


I2a2a-S24 (aka M223)
Saxon
Once again Mesolithic European. Saxon might be correct for some subclades of the Germanic I2a2a-L801, but not for M223, as it also includes branches associated with the Yamna and Corded Ware cultures.


I2c-S333 (aka L597)
Thracian
It is Palaeolithic and Mesolithic European. Nothing else can be said at that level as it formed over 20,000 years ago.


I2a1b-S392 (aka L621)
Illyrian
It is Mesolithic European like L161.1, but modern carriers belong mostly to the CTS10228 clade, which is Slavic. It is not Illyrian anyway.


I2a1a-S433 (formerly I-M26)
Nuragic
It is Palaeolithic and Mesolithic European. The Nuragic/Sardinian branch is one of its subclade only, L160, which formed during the Neolithic.


J-M172
Herdsman Farmer
Palaeolithic and Mesolithic Caucasians mostly, although it is correct that their descendants became some of the first Neolithic herders and farmers.


J-M267
Arabian
How completely wrong. The Arabian J1 is much much deeper in the phylogeny, downstream of the Semitic L858 branch.


L-M11
Dravidian
Haplogroup H corresponds to the Dravidians. Haplogroup L is centred around Pakistan and is associated with the Harappa culture. But L* is in itself Palaeolithic South Asia or Iranian Plateau.


N-M231
Siberian
Wrong. Haplogroup N originated in East Asia (probably China) and only spread to Mongolia and Siberia during the Neolithic.


N1c-M46 (aka Tat)
Uralic
Once again the depth of subclade is wrong. N1c dates from Neolithic China. The Uralic branches are only the much deeper Z1936 and CTS9976.


O-P191 (formerly O-P186)
Sunda
Nonsense. Haplogroup O* originated over 30,000 years ago, probably around China, not Indonesia (Sunda).


Q-M242
Altai (formerly Yenisei)
Why only Altai? This is a properly ancient Siberian haplogroup, but also the main lineage of Native Americans.


R1A- M17 (formerly R1a-M512)
Pit Grave Culture
I'd say north-west Pit Grave (Yamna) culture and especially Corded Ware culture.


R1a-S198 (aka Z282)
Kurgan
Kurgan/tumulus is too vague as it spans from the Chalcolithc to the Iron Age, from the Steppe to Western Europe. It includes Proto-Balto-Slavic and Proto-Germanic branches. Anyway nobody belongs only to S198 without further subclade nowadays, so why mention it?


R1a-S202 (aka Z93)
Indo-Iranian
Correct.


R1a-S298 (aka L664)
Yamna (formerly Brythonic)
Incorrect. S298/L664 formed during the Corded Ware culture, after Yamna was over and after leaving the Steppe. It spread in later Proto-Germanic societies. I would jus call it 'Germanic'.


R1a-S443 (aka Z289)
Norse Viking
Scandinavian Germanic is more accurate as it long predates the Viking, but it is true that it was diffused outside Scandinavia mostly by the Norwegian and Swedish Vikings. 'Norse Viking' is redundant though as the Vikings were Norse.


R1b-M153
Basque
Correct


R1b-M222
Ancient Irish
Correct, although this subclade is more medieval than really ancient. Its associated with the descendants of Niall of the Nine Hostages.


R1b-M269
Anatolian
Misleading. Once again nobody belongs just to M269* today, and the whole branch is so vast that there is no suitable name to encompass it all. It is not even clear if M269 developed in Anatolia, the Caucasus, Russia or elsewhere.


R1b-S1136
Eoganachta
Actually the Eoganachta surnames are found within a deep subclade of S1136, under A1134.


R1b-S116 (aka P312)
Beaker Folk (formerly Bell Beaker and Hunter Gatherer)
Misleading. R1b-S116 were the invaders of the Bell Beaker culture. They were certainly not hunter-gatherers.


R1b-S145 (aka L21)
Pretani
What do they mean by Pretani? Northwest European Celts is clearer.


R1b-S168 (aka L226)
Dalcassian
Probably correct. Known as Irish Type III and found mostly in SW Ireland.


R1b-S169 (aka L159.2)
Hibernians
S169 is a medieval subclade within the Irish Sea haplotype. It is too young to be called 'Hibernian' though.


R1b-S182 (aka L238)
Norse
Correct.


R1b-S190
Maeatae
Part of the Little Scottish cluster around the Firth of Forth. It dates from the early Middle Ages and is too northern to be Maeatae.


R1b-S21 (aka U106)
Germanic
More Proto-Celto-Germanic, but essentially Germanic.


R1b-S28 (aka U152)
Alpine
Ok, but includes both Alpine Celts and Italics.


R1b-S300 (aka L371)
Ancient Welsh
Ok, but maybe be more widely Insular Celtic.


R1b-S388 (was S466)
Royal Stewart
Actually the Royal Stuart branch is the S781 subclade of S388.


R1b-S530 (aka L1335)
Gododdin
Maybe. S530 is a most Lowland Scottish clade, also found in northern Ireland.


R1b-S68 (aka L165)
Hebridean Viking
Very doubtful. This is a Bronze Age clade of DF27 found almost exclusively in Britain, with a very small percentage in Scandinavia. It was most probably imported by the Vikings from Scotland to Scandinavia and not the other way round.


R1b-S735 ( was S530) (aka L1065)
Pictish
A mostly Scottish clade whose last common ancestor lived 1800 years ago. Too young to be called Pictish, but it is Scottish.


R1b-SRY2627 (aka M167)
Iberian
Not just Iberian, but West European. In fact SRY2627 may have originated in Britain and spread to France and Iberia with the Atlantic Bronze Age trade.


R2-M479
Harappan
Wrong. R2 is found mostly in south and east India and Southeast Asia, but is rare in Pakistan. 'Bay of Bengal' would be a better description.


T-M184
Babylon
Much too restrictive. Neolithic Near Eastern farmers.




The verdict: out of 59 haplogroups or subclades in the list, 18 are completely wrong or mostly wrong, 17 descriptions are too restrictive to be acceptable, 17 are acceptable but could be better rephrased, and only 7 are really correct.

Among those wrong, I would suggest to remove completely G-S314, I2a1-P37, J-M267, N-M231, O-P191, R1a-Z282, R1b-M269 and R2-M479, because they do not match any single ethnic group and all people who are positive for these SNPs will be positive for large subclades that do match ethnic groups. The same is true for all I2 subclades listed, for which some valid ethnic groups were mentioned by the depth of subclade was not appropriate.

So my ydna’s nickname is ‘Gaul’!? What does it mean !?

galon07
16-08-18, 20:27
Mine would be 'Saxon', but that's not precise, as stated in Maciamo's comment. However, my subclade is said to be coming from the Suebi, and I read somewhere that they were once 'close' to the Saxons. Just curious anyway.