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Cla168
18-03-17, 16:38
I did a 23andme test last year, and they told me (if I recall correctly) that my paternal haplogroup was R1b1b2a. I did a bit of research on it and found this page (geni.com/projects/R-U106-Y-DNA/12031), where it says:


"R1b1b2a1a (S21+), previously known as R1b1b2a"


So I assumed that my haplogroup was R-U106/S21 (which was pretty cool, because I live in an area in Italy that was settled by the Lombards).
I also shared my data with another guy with my last name, and we had the same haplogroup.


Now that 23andme has been updated, they told me I'm R-M412, which is a parent branch of R-U106 if I'm not mistaken; however, the guy with whom I shared my data is now considered an R-L23 by 23andme (parent branch of M412).


So is it possible that I'm U106 but I just come out as an M412 on 23andme? Note that U106/S21 is not present on the tree they provide on their site (although M405 is and I've read that might be the same thing).
Thanks for your help!

Maciamo
18-03-17, 19:43
If 23andMe says that you were R1b1b2a, and now R1b-M412, then there is no way you are U106. You probably belong to a minor subclade of L51 like Z2118, which is found in Italy, Germany and Britain, among others.

Cla168
18-03-17, 20:25
If 23andMe says that you were R1b1b2a, and now R1b-M412, then there is no way you are U106. You probably belong to a minor subclade of L51 like Z2118, which is found in Italy, Germany and Britain, among others.
Thanks for your response! That's a shame, I love the Lombards (well, I still have Germanic autosomal DNA I guess...) although I have to ask, why are you sure I'm not U106 but you say I might be Z2118? Aren't they both derived from M412?

Maciamo
18-03-17, 22:51
Thanks for your response! That's a shame, I love the Lombards (well, I still have Germanic autosomal DNA I guess...) although I have to ask, why are you sure I'm not U106 but you say I might be Z2118? Aren't they both derived from M412?

Both descend from M412, but 23andMe doesn't test Z2118. On the other hand it does test L11, P312 and U106, and you were negative for all of them. Unless you belong to a yet unidentified subclade of M412, the only possibility left is Z2118.

Cla168
19-03-17, 00:10
Both descend from M412, but 23andMe doesn't test Z2118. On the other hand it does test L11, P312 and U106, and you were negative for all of them. Unless you belong to a yet unidentified subclade of M412, the only possibility left is Z2118.
Got it! Can you tell me more/give me some links where I can read more about Z2118? I can't find anything on Eupedia, is it rare/new?

Maciamo
19-03-17, 10:03
Got it! Can you tell me more/give me some links where I can read more about Z2118? I can't find anything on Eupedia, is it rare/new?

It has been discovered recently, hence we still don't know much about it, except that it came with the Indo-European migrations during the Bronze Age.

NB : Z2118 is also known as PF7589.

Cla168
19-03-17, 19:16
It has been discovered recently, hence we still don't know much about it, except that it came with the Indo-European migrations during the Bronze Age.

NB : Z2118 is also known as PF7589.
I see, that's really cool! Thanks so much!

RobertColumbia
25-03-17, 14:58
Thanks for your response! That's a shame, I love the Lombards (well, I still have Germanic autosomal DNA I guess...) although I have to ask, why are you sure I'm not U106 but you say I might be Z2118? Aren't they both derived from M412?

There's nothing in your result that says that you are not Lombard. If you like Lombard culture or language there is no reason that you cannot celebrate it. The chances are near 1 that you have Lombard ancestry somewhere in your family tree.

Also, note that an R-U106 result would not mean that you are necessarily Lombard - other Germanic groups such as Vikings, Visigoths, and Anglo-Saxons had it too. Regionally speaking, there probably were more R-U106 Lombards in your area than, say, R-U106 Visigoths, but that doesn't mean that Lombard country was 100% Visigoth-free. Some Visigoth mercenary could have strayed behind in Lombardy and decided to settle down with a Lombard lady he met....

Maciamo
25-03-17, 16:03
There's nothing in your result that says that you are not Lombard. If you like Lombard culture or language there is no reason that you cannot celebrate it. The chances are near 1 that you have Lombard ancestry somewhere in your family tree.

Isn't that a bit too obvious to mention?




Also, note that an R-U106 result would not mean that you are necessarily Lombard - other Germanic groups such as Vikings, Visigoths, and Anglo-Saxons had it too. Regionally speaking, there probably were more R-U106 Lombards in your area than, say, R-U106 Visigoths, but that doesn't mean that Lombard country was 100% Visigoth-free. Some Visigoth mercenary could have strayed behind in Lombardy and decided to settle down with a Lombard lady he met....

In Lombardy a U106 could be of Lombard, Gothic or Frankish origin, in that order of likelihood. Viking or Vandal isn't impossible but extremely unlikely. Anglo-Saxon can be ruled out in Italy unless someone has relatively recent British ancestry.

Pax Augusta
25-03-17, 18:02
In Lombardy a U106 could be of Lombard, Gothic or Frankish origin, in that order of likelihood. Viking or Vandal isn't impossible but extremely unlikely. Anglo-Saxon can be ruled out in Italy unless someone has relatively recent British ancestry.

The Langobarden (Longobardi/Lombards) weren't only in Lombardy, Longobard settlements included also central and southern Italy.

https://www.ias.edu/sites/default/files/images/featured-thumbnails/ideas/Genetics_Geary_Map_Langobarden_areas.jpg

https://www.ias.edu/ideas/2013/geary-history-genetics

Maciamo
25-03-17, 19:44
The Langobarden (Longobardi/Lombards) weren't only in Lombardy, Longobard settlements included also central and southern Italy.

https://www.ias.edu/sites/default/files/images/featured-thumbnails/ideas/Genetics_Geary_Map_Langobarden_areas.jpg

https://www.ias.edu/ideas/2013/geary-history-genetics


I know, but the largest part of the Lombard tribe settled in northern Italy, and especially Lombardy. In other regions they were confined to a few cities like Benevento and had a minor genetic impact.

The Ostrogoths seem to have been more evenly dispersed, but with a very low density (judging from the R1a-CTS1211 in Italy, which can only have come with the Goths).

Hauteville
25-03-17, 20:49
Not just Longobards but don't forget Ostrogoths and also Normans and Swabians who also settled to Abruzzo.