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Maciamo
26-03-17, 10:28
The new 23andMe experience, starting in 2016 and replacing the old version of other customers the early months of 2017, has been a disappointment for many veteran users. One major let down is that it is no longer possible to search for people with whom to share by location or other profile fields unless these people appear in our DNA Relatives (which means that they must share at least one DNA segment). I thought it would be a good opportunity to share our results here. My aim is to compile a frequency table by country and region, so that people understand better how they compare with other individuals from the same region or from the rest of Europe.

Please only share your results if all your ancestors come from the same country! Kindly also mention your ancestral region(s) within that country so that results can be classify more accurately.

Maciamo
26-03-17, 10:29
Here is a table based on the results I have already received.

EDIT: I have now made distribution maps of the main 23andMe admixtures (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/autosomal_maps_dodecad.shtml#23andMe).




Country/Region
Broadly
South European
Iberian
Sardinian
Italian
Balkans
Broadly
Northwest European
British & Irish
French & German
Scandinavian
Finnish
East European


Albania (n=12)
7.6
0
0
2.7
86.9
0.4
0
0
0
0
0.4


Belgium (n=57)
2.2
0.9
0.1
0.7
0.2
28.3
20.2
39.1
2.7
0.1
0.2


Belgium - Flanders (n=33)
1.6
0.8
0.1
0.6
0
29.1
22
36.1
3.8
0.1
0.3


Belgium - Wallonia (n=24)
3.2
1.2
0.1
1.3
0.4
27.2
17.5
42.4
1.3
0
0.1


Bosnia (n=3)
5.8
0
0
0
68.1
0.8
0.2
0
0
0
16.5


Bulgaria (n=10)
12
0
0
5.5
67.3
1.4
0
0
0
0
6.8


Croatia (n=5)
5.7
0
0
0.4
65.1
2.6
0
1.2
0
0
15.9


Cyprus (n=5)
3.9
0
0
43
0.2
0
0
0
0
0
0


Czech Republic (n=7)
2.7
0
0
0
9.1
15.7
0.8
4
1.2
0
52.9


Denmark (n=27)
0.1
0
0
0.1
0
34
17.1
7.9
38.5
0.1
0.4


England (n=22)
1.1
0.1
0
0
0
22.9
56.8
12
3.9
0.1
0


France - northern half (n=11)
5.3
2.5
0.1
1.9
0.2
22.6
24.6
30.2
1
0
0


Germany (n=6)
2
0.2
0
1.1
0.3
30.9
11.2
37
6.6
0.1
5.2


Greece (n=48)
11.7
0
0
13.3
70.4
0.7
0
0
0
0
0.9


Greece - Aegean Islands (n=6)
16.6
0
0
44.4
23.4
0.2
0
0
0
0
0.1


Ireland (n=43)
0.1
0
0
0
0
3.4
94.9
0.8
0.3
0
0


Italy - Lombardy (n=24)
17.2
3
0.2
47.9
1.4
13.4
2.5
7.9
0
0
0


Italy - Sicily (n=50)
10.7
0.5
0.2
72.8
2.2
0.5
0.1
0.1
0
0
0


Italy - South (n=5)
9.7
0.1
0
72.5
4.3
4
0
0
0
0
0


Italy - Tuscany (n=12)
13.9
1.1
0
66.4
4.2
6.7
1.6
1.2
0
0.2
0.1


Italy - Veneto (n=46)
19.2
2
0.1
33
3.9
17.6
2.1
11.9
0.1
0.1
0.4


Kosovo (n=5)
3.9
0
0
0.9
92.6
0.1
0
0
0
0
0.4


FYR Macedonia (n=4)
13.1
0
0
2.9
71.4
1.1
0
0
0
0
6.1


Montenegro (n=2)
5.2
0
0
0.2
85.8
1.7
1.1
0
0
0
4.1


Netherlands (n=18)
0.9
0.1
0
0.3
0
31.6
22.2
24.4
12.5
0.1
0


Norway (n=6)
0.2
0
0
0
0
17.2
8.3
1.6
64.8
6.8
0


Portugal (n=30)
16.2
59
0
5.7
0.1
8.3
0.9
2.5
0
0
0


Romania (n=12)
11.6
0
0
3.2
66.6
2.3
0
0.9
0
0
6.7


Serbia (n=16)
5.3
0.1
0
0.3
75.5
1.6
0
0.3
0
0
9


Slovakia (n=16)
3.6
0
0
0.1
10.6
13.4
1.4
3.5
1
0
52


Sweden (n=8)
0.2
0
0
0
0
19.2
4.1
2
60.5
9.3
2

PaschalisB
26-03-17, 11:08
My results:
Balkan 61.7%
Italian 15%
Broadly South European: 15.4%
Eastern European: 2.5%
French & German: 0.2%
Broadly Northwest European: 1.4%
Ashkenazi: 0.1%

PaschalisB
26-03-17, 11:13
I have also collected many results from mainland Greece, here are the averages:

Greece mainland (n=48)
Balkan: 70.04%
Italian: 13.35%
Broadly South European: 11.69%
East European: 0.89%
Northwest European: 0.67%
Middle Eastern & North African: 0.69%
East Asian & Native American: 0.10%

The islanders score higher Italian than Balkan and they usually score more than 4% Middle Eastern & North African (with frequencies up to 10% sometimes)

Maciamo
26-03-17, 11:56
I have also collected many results from mainland Greece, here are the averages:

Greece mainland (n=48)
Balkan: 70.04%
Italian: 13.35%
Broadly South European: 11.69%
East European: 0.89%
Northwest European: 0.67%
Middle Eastern & North African: 0.69%
East Asian & Native American: 0.10%

The islanders score higher Italian than Balkan and they usually score more than 4% Middle Eastern & North African (with frequencies up to 10% sometimes)


That's fantastic! It will much faster to add new country averages at this rhythm. ;-)

PaschalisB
26-03-17, 12:33
Albanian average (n=8)
Balkan 89.45%
Italian 1.26%
Broadly South European 6.8%
East European 0.11%
Northwest European 0.48%
Middle Eastern & North African 0.01%
East Asian 0.14%

PaschalisB
26-03-17, 13:12
Bulgarian average (n=7)
Balkan 65.3%
Italian 6.03%
Broadly South European 13.38%
East European 6.37%
Northwest European 1.56%
Middle Eastern & North African 0.54%
East Asian 0.3%

PaschalisB
26-03-17, 16:48
Romanian average (n=8)
Balkan 67.46%
Italian 2.67%
Broadly South European 11.39%
East European 6.32%
French & German 0.19%
Broadly Northwest European 2.49%
Middle Eastern & North African 0.57%
East Asian 0.4%
South Asian 0.3%

PaschalisB
26-03-17, 17:35
Greek Aegean Islands (n=6)
Balkan 23.43%
Italian 44.42%
Broadly South European 16.59%
East European 0.15%
Broadly Northwest European 0.17%
Middle Eastern & North African 11.73%
East Asian 0.17%

PaschalisB
27-03-17, 13:56
Kosovo (n=5)
Balkan 92.6%
Italian 0.88%
Broadly South European 3.92%
East European 0.4%
Broadly Northwest European 0.12%

PaschalisB
27-03-17, 16:59
Updated data thanks to more people sharing with me

Bulgaria (n=10)
Balkan 67.34%
Italian 5.52%
Broadly South European 11.97%
East European 6.81%
Broadly Northwest European 1.38%
Middle Eastern & North African 0.4%
East Asian 0.28%

Romania (n=12)
Balkan 66.64%
Italian 3.19%
Broadly South European 11.61%
East European 6.73%
French & German 0.87%
Broadly Northwest European 2.34%
Middle Eastern & North African 0.5%
East Asian 0.51%

Albania (n=10)
Balkan 88.68%
Italian 1.8%
Broadly South European 6.89%
East European 0.25%
Broadly Northwest European 0.44%
Middle Eastern & North African 0.03%
East Asian 0.02%

Croatia (n=5)
Balkan 65.08%
Italian 0.44%
Broadly South European 5.72%
East European 15.88%
French & German 1.18%
Broadly Northwest European 2.62%
East Asian 0.2%

Sile
27-03-17, 19:12
My mother number below ................. western Treviso Province, veneto region, italy


Southern European 58.6%


Italian 36.4%

Balkan 5.6%

Iberian 0.0%
Sardinian 1.2%

Broadly Southern European 15.2%

Northwestern European 36.6 %


French & German 23.2%

British & Irish 3.6%

Broadly Northwestern European 9.6%

Ashkenazi Jewish 0.4%






my wife's numbers .............eastern Treviso Province, Veneto region, Italy

Southern European 49.6%


Italian 26.2%

Iberian 6.4%

Broadly Southern European 17.0%

Northwestern European 45.2%


French & German 17.8%

Broadly Northwestern European 27.6%

Ashkenazi Jewish 0.0%

Regio X
27-03-17, 19:40
My mother number below ................. western Treviso Province, veneto region, italy


Southern European 58.6%


Italian 36.4%

Balkan 5.6%

Iberian 0.0%
Sardinian 1.2%

Broadly Southern European 15.2%

Northwestern European 36.6 %


French & German 23.2%

British & Irish 3.6%

Broadly Northwestern European 9.6%

Ashkenazi Jewish 0.4%






my wife's numbers .............eastern Treviso Province, Veneto region, Italy

Southern European 49.6%


Italian 26.2%

Iberian 6.4%

Broadly Southern European 17.0%

Northwestern European 45.2%


French & German 17.8%

Broadly Northwestern European 27.6%

Ashkenazi Jewish 0.0%My own statistics for Venetians (roots in TV and BL provinces mainly) based on 12 samples to which I have access, including 2 (my father and I) with a little "touch" of MN and 1 with a little touch of UD. :) The scores don't total 100% because of the rounding down, and I discarded those below 0,1%.

- Southern European: 55,3
italian: 31.0
balkan: 4.1
iberian: 1.3
sardinian: 0.1
broadly S.E.: 18.3
- Northwestern European: 36.2
french & german: 15.5
british & irish: 2.7
scandinavian: 0.1
broadly NW.E.: 18.2
- Eastern European: 0.2
- Ashkenazi Jewish: 0.2
- Broadly European: 8.0

My mother presents the highest Balkan % (7.6) from the list, followed by my father (7.1). I have the highest Iberian % (4.9) and Scandinavian % (0.8).

Excluding those 3:

- Southern European: 52,8
italian: 30.0
balkan: 3.5
iberian: 1.1
sardinian: 0.2
broadly S.E.: 17.3
- Northwestern European: 38.4
french & german: 17.7
british & irish: 1.5
scandinavian: 0.1
broadly NW.E.: 19.0
- Ashkenazi Jewish: 0.2
- Broadly European: 8.3

The statistics below are more accurate, because they include many more samples (from all parts of Veneto, I guess). They have been done some months ago by a 23andMe user from Veneto.
Veneto (n=38), Lombardy (n=24), Tuscany (n=12) and Sicily (n=50):
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e102/paleoven/23andme_zpsadrzegdp.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/paleoven/media/23andme_zpsadrzegdp.jpg.html)

Maciamo
28-03-17, 09:54
My own statistics for Venetians (roots in TV and BL provinces mainly) based on 12 samples to which I have access, including 2 (my father and I) with a little "touch" of MN and 1 with a little touch of UD. :) The scores don't total 100% because of the rounding down, and I discarded those below 0,1%.

- Southern European: 55,3
italian: 31.0
balkan: 4.1
iberian: 1.3
sardinian: 0.1
broadly S.E.: 18.3
- Northwestern European: 36.2
french & german: 15.5
british & irish: 2.7
scandinavian: 0.1
broadly NW.E.: 18.2
- Eastern European: 0.2
- Ashkenazi Jewish: 0.2
- Broadly European: 8.0

My mother presents the highest Balkan % (7.6) from the list, followed by my father (7.1). I have the highest Iberian % (4.9) and Scandinavian % (0.8).

Excluding those 3:

- Southern European: 52,8
italian: 30.0
balkan: 3.5
iberian: 1.1
sardinian: 0.2
broadly S.E.: 17.3
- Northwestern European: 38.4
french & german: 17.7
british & irish: 1.5
scandinavian: 0.1
broadly NW.E.: 19.0
- Ashkenazi Jewish: 0.2
- Broadly European: 8.3

The statistics below are more accurate, because they include many more samples (from all parts of Veneto, I guess). They have been done some months ago by a 23andMe user from Veneto.
Veneto (n=38), Lombardy (n=24), Tuscany (n=12) and Sicily (n=50):
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e102/paleoven/23andme_zpsadrzegdp.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/paleoven/media/23andme_zpsadrzegdp.jpg.html)


This is great! I have added the percentages. Maybe I should combine your results of Veneto with those from the pie chart? Do you know if your results are already included?

Maciamo
28-03-17, 11:08
It's amazing that Greek Aegean Islands have more 'Italian' than Veneto and Friuli and almost as much as Lombardy! Could it be because of Roman and/or Venetian colonisation? I wonder if they also look more Italian than the Greek average?

Maciamo
28-03-17, 12:40
Now we badly need data from Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Scotland, Wales and all Baltic and Slavic countries.

I have about 10 results from France, but the regional disparities are so huge that it's useless to group Gascons with Bretons, Central French or Provençals. Gascons are genetically Spanish, while Bretons are like the British. Neither look French in the Ancestry Composition.

Sakattack
28-03-17, 13:51
It's amazing that Greek Aegean Islands have more 'Italian' than Veneto and Friuli and almost as much as Lombardy! Could it be because of Roman and/or Venetian colonisation? I wonder if they also look more Italian than the Greek average?

Aegean Islanders + Cretans and Anatolian Greeks (mostly the non-Pontic ones) score really high "italian" on 23andme. The pattern is: the bigger the MENA they show, the higher the "italian".

If they look more "italian" (the Aegean Islanders), I would not say so. Here are 3 famous Aegeans:

858585868587

Angela
28-03-17, 14:50
This is an artifact of 23andme's terrible Balkan cluster. It includes Greece (a sample from Thessaly, plus their Greek members, which is a small number of people) and Malta, but also all the more northern Balkan states as well. The "Italian" percentage for people from the mainland and from the islands is just the "excess" Italian like ancestry over and above the average already present in the Balkan cluster.

Islanders, having less of the northern Balkans type ancestry will obviously get more "extra" Italian like ancestry. It's as simple as that, I think.

Sakattack
28-03-17, 14:58
Islanders, having less of the northern Balkans type ancestry will obviously get more "extra" Italian like ancestry. It's as simple as that, I think.

Yes.
And they obviously have more "italian-like" ancestry, because 23andme clients from Italy, are usually American-Italians with roots from the South/Sicily.

This Balkan cluster is really problematic there.

Helgenes
28-03-17, 16:24
All my recent ancestry is norman My 4 grandparents are from Lower Normandy, Cotentin pensinsula.

Northwestern European 90.3%
British & Irish 41.6%
French & German 14.3%
Scandinavian 1.0%
Finnish < 0.1%


Broadly Northwestern European 33.3%


Southern European 4.4%
Iberian 1.7%
Broadly Southern European 2.8%
Eastern European 1.0%
Ashkenazi Jewish 0.3%
Broadly European 3.8%


Sub-Saharan African 0.1%

Regio X
28-03-17, 17:07
Looking at some numbers, it seems the highest % of a certain pop tend to be associated to phasing, when results generally* increase in resolution. In my list of 12, for example, the highest Italian % (47.4), Balkan (7.6), Iberian (4.9), British (8.3), Scandinavian (0.8) and Eastern E. (1.7) are from people who had close relatives tested too.
*I say "generally" because after phasing one of the mentioned matches had her S.E. dropped off 0.2, NW.E. dropped off 3.6 and Broadly European increased 3.6 in the speculative mode, oddly. I presume the precision estimated by 23andMe (see Testing & Validation in https://www.23andme.com/ancestry-composition-guide/) refers to the conservative threashold, otherwise, those results couldn't have changed that way, in theory (precision of 0.95 for NW.E.). However, I haven't recorded her sub-regional results before phasing, then I don't know if these results, particularly, increased in resolution or not. Possibly they did.


This is great! I have added the percentages. Maybe I should combine your results of Veneto with those from the pie chart? Do you know if your results are already included?I'm sure one is there: himself, heheh. I think at least two of my matches are there, but let's wait. I just asked him.
He told me he has more samples right now, however, the averages haven't changed significantly since the first (those I posted) have been done months ago.

WOLFF éric
28-03-17, 17:33
Eric WOLFF
European 100.0%

Northwestern European 82.9%
French & German 30.8%
British & Irish 24.2%
Scandinavian 0.3%
Finnish 0.0%
Broadly Northwestern European 27.5%

Southern European 11.5%
Italian 1.4%
Iberian 1.2%
Balkan 0.1%
Sardinian 0.0%
Broadly Southern European 8.7%

Eastern European 0.0%

Ashkenazi Jewish 0.0%

Broadly European 5.6%

WOLFF éric
28-03-17, 17:44
70% speculative :
Eric WOLFF 100%

European 99.8%

Northwestern European 66.9%

French & German 10.5%

British & Irish 4.1%

Broadly Northwestern European 52.3%

Southern European 3.3%

Broadly Southern European 3.3%

Broadly European 29.6%

Unassigned 0.2%

90% conservative :
Eric WOLFF 100%

European 96.8%

Northwestern European 28.0%

French & German 0.2%

Broadly Northwestern European 27.8%

Broadly European 68.8%

Unassigned 3.2%

50% speculative :
Eric WOLFF 100%

European 100.0%

Northwestern European 82.9%

French & German 30.8%

British & Irish 24.2%

Scandinavian 0.3%

Broadly Northwestern European 27.5%

Southern European 11.5%

Italian 1.4%

Iberian 1.2%

Balkan 0.1%

Broadly Southern European 8.7%

Broadly European 5.6%

Unassigned < 0.1%

Maciamo
28-03-17, 19:06
Eric WOLFF


European 100.0%

Northwestern European 82.9%
French & German 30.8%
British & Irish 24.2%
Scandinavian 0.3%
Finnish 0.0%
Broadly Northwestern European 27.5%

Southern European 11.5%
Italian 1.4%
Iberian 1.2%
Balkan 0.1%
Sardinian 0.0%
Broadly Southern European 8.7%

Eastern European 0.0%

Ashkenazi Jewish 0.0%

Broadly European 5.6%

How would you describe your ancestry? All Baden-Württenberg or also Alsace and other regions?

Sile
28-03-17, 19:47
My own statistics for Venetians (roots in TV and BL provinces mainly) based on 12 samples to which I have access, including 2 (my father and I) with a little "touch" of MN and 1 with a little touch of UD. :) The scores don't total 100% because of the rounding down, and I discarded those below 0,1%.

- Southern European: 55,3
italian: 31.0
balkan: 4.1
iberian: 1.3
sardinian: 0.1
broadly S.E.: 18.3
- Northwestern European: 36.2
french & german: 15.5
british & irish: 2.7
scandinavian: 0.1
broadly NW.E.: 18.2
- Eastern European: 0.2
- Ashkenazi Jewish: 0.2
- Broadly European: 8.0

My mother presents the highest Balkan % (7.6) from the list, followed by my father (7.1). I have the highest Iberian % (4.9) and Scandinavian % (0.8).

Excluding those 3:

- Southern European: 52,8
italian: 30.0
balkan: 3.5
iberian: 1.1
sardinian: 0.2
broadly S.E.: 17.3
- Northwestern European: 38.4
french & german: 17.7
british & irish: 1.5
scandinavian: 0.1
broadly NW.E.: 19.0
- Ashkenazi Jewish: 0.2
- Broadly European: 8.3

The statistics below are more accurate, because they include many more samples (from all parts of Veneto, I guess). They have been done some months ago by a 23andMe user from Veneto.
Veneto (n=38), Lombardy (n=24), Tuscany (n=12) and Sicily (n=50):
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e102/paleoven/23andme_zpsadrzegdp.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/paleoven/media/23andme_zpsadrzegdp.jpg.html)

Thanks
Was this data from the person in 23andme who has the surname Dall`Ava ?
If so, He is from Vazzola

In regards to discarding, ................I discarded all mine from my father, wife, sons and myself who have 0.1 to 0.4% of Mongolian
also discarded 0.2% of North-East Africa from my mother. ..............if you need these small fractions, let me know

Regio X
28-03-17, 22:26
@Maciamo
Just one was included: himself. He haven't included my other matches and my family.
Excluding his own sample and those three with traces of MN or UD, we would have for Veneto (n=46 ; mine 8 added to his 38), rounding off:

- Southern European: 58.4
italian: 33.0
balkan: 3.9
iberian: 2.0
sardinian: 0.1
broadly S.E.: 19.2
- Northwestern European: 31.8
french & german: 11.9
british & irish: 2.1
broadly NW.E.: 17.6
- Eastern European: 0.4
- Ashkenazi Jewish: 0.1
- Broadly European: 9.0

@Sile
You posted just the results of your mother and wife, and without the Broadly European (what are they?). I could consider your father too. The number of samples would grow to 49.

Sile
29-03-17, 06:59
@Maciamo
Just one was included: himself. He haven't included my other matches and my family.
Excluding his own sample and those three with traces of MN or UD, we would have for Veneto (n=46 ; mine 8 added to his 38), rounding off:

- Southern European: 58.4
italian: 33.0
balkan: 3.9
iberian: 2.0
sardinian: 0.1
broadly S.E.: 19.2
- Northwestern European: 31.8
french & german: 11.9
british & irish: 2.1
broadly NW.E.: 17.6
- Eastern European: 0.4
- Ashkenazi Jewish: 0.1
- Broadly European: 9.0

@Sile
You posted just the results of your mother and wife, and without the Broadly European (what are they?). I could consider your father too. The number of samples would grow to 49.

Mothers's broadly


Broadly European 2.9%



Fathers broadly

Broadly European 4.5%



wife's broadly

Ashkenazi Jewish 0.0%
Broadly European 3.7%

The_Lyonnist
29-03-17, 11:31
Mine, from Lyon, France. But my maternal grandfather was born in Alsace a few months before this region was integrated into France.

http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/35514123andMetableauv2.png

mwauthy
29-03-17, 15:31
Mine, from Lyon, France. But my maternal grandfather was born in Alsace a few months before this region was integrated into France.

http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/35514123andMetableauv2.png

Those are interestingly high British and Irish percentages for Lyon and Alsace being more south and east from Anglo-Saxon or Gaelic areas. I wonder if British and Irish Scores might correlate more with Hallstatt culture.

Regio X
29-03-17, 16:00
Mothers's broadly


Broadly European 2.9%



Fathers broadly

Broadly European 4.5%



wife's broadly

Ashkenazi Jewish 0.0%
Broadly European 3.7%You posted just your wife's and mother's results. What about the other % of your father? Doesn't your wife have any Balkan %?
(The author of the map haven't included your family either.)

As for the little %s, I think they wouldn't do any difference, since I'm ignoring averages below 0.1.

The_Lyonnist
29-03-17, 19:07
Those are interestingly high British and Irish percentages for Lyon and Alsace being more south and east from Anglo-Saxon or Gaelic areas. I wonder if British and Irish Scores might correlate more with Hallstatt culture.
Maybe it comes from my Alsatian grandparent, right? Unless this is because Lyon is a burgundian population home.

Sile
29-03-17, 19:09
You posted just your wife's and mother's results. What about the other % of your father? Doesn't your wife have any Balkan %?
(The author of the map haven't included your family either.)

As for the little %s, I think they wouldn't do any difference, since I'm ignoring averages below 0.1.


my wife's data comes from my sons phased , doubled...........no Balkan


my father below

European 99.6%
Southern European 62.6%

Italian 34.2%
Balkan 6.2%
Iberian 4.8%
Sardinian 0.0%
Broadly Southern European 15.4%

Northwestern European 30.8%
French & German 23.6%
British & Irish 0.8%
Broadly Northwestern European 19.6%

Eastern European 0.6%
Ashkenazi Jewish 0.1%
Broadly European 4.5%
East Asian 0.3%

mwauthy
29-03-17, 19:58
Mine, from Lyon, France. But my maternal grandfather was born in Alsace a few months before this region was integrated into France.

http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/35514123andMetableauv2.png


Maybe it comes from my Alsatian grandparent, right? Unless this is because Lyon is a burgundian population home.

Yeah I'm not sure how these companies can differentiate between a Frank and a Saxon or between a Gaulish Celt and a Gaelic Celt? I'm thinking maybe French and German or Western European on other sites is primarily Germanic with a substrate of Celtic and that British and Irish is primarily Celtic with a substrate of Germanic.

Regio X
29-03-17, 20:05
my wife's data comes from my sons phased , doubled...........no Balkan


my father below

European 99.6%
Southern European 62.6%

Italian 34.2%
Balkan 6.2%
Iberian 4.8%
Sardinian 0.0%
Broadly Southern European 15.4%

Northwestern European 30.8%
French & German 23.6%
British & Irish 0.8%
Broadly Northwestern European 19.6%

Eastern European 0.6%
Ashkenazi Jewish 0.1%
Broadly European 4.5%
East Asian 0.3%It doesn't work this way. The phased results doubled don't necessarily corresponds to the actual results.
I could consider one of your sons instead.

Sile
29-03-17, 20:21
It doesn't work this way. The phased results doubled don't necessarily corresponds to the actual results.
I could consider one of your sons instead.

ok

my son...........as of today, the Euro, asia, african is split in the site............he also gained 190 DNA relatives in one day ?

European 99.5%

Southern European 51.3%
Italian 27.7%
Iberian 5.9%
Broadly Southern European 17.8%

Northwestern European 39.1%
French & German 25.7%
Broadly Northwestern European 13.4%

Ashkenazi Jewish 0.1%
Broadly European 8.9%

Much of Europe was buried under miles of ice ten thousand years ago. As the glaciers receded over millennia, Neolithic farmers from the Near East joined Paleolithic hunter-gatherers to settle Europe.


this is new
Middle Eastern & North African 0.3%
North African 0.3%

The peoples of Northern Africa and the Middle East have not only genetic but also deep linguistic connections with one another.


East Asian & Native American 0.1%
East Asian 0.1%
Mongolian 0.1%
Native American < 0.1%


The peoples of East Asia and the Americas have a shared genetic history. Their common ancestors left the Near East as early as 80,000 years ago, migrating across Asia. The ancestors of Native Americans began to cross into the Americas 12,000 to 15,000 years ago.

Never seen native American before


These comments are also new since yesterday

Regio X
29-03-17, 22:23
Veneto (n=49)

- Southern European: 58.3
italian: 33.0
balkan: 3.9
iberian: 2.1
sardinian: 0.1
broadly S.E.: 19.0
- Northwestern European: 32.1
french & german: 12.6
british & irish: 2.1
broadly NW.E.: 17.4
- Eastern European: 0.4
- Ashkenazi Jewish: 0.1
- Broadly European: 8.8

@Sile
Thanks.

New Englander
30-03-17, 01:07
Why do I get so much "Broadly" ancestry?


European 97.8%
Middle Eastern & North African 2.1%
East Asian & Native American 0.1%
Unassigned< 0.1%

European97.8%

Southern European 58.3%
Italian 36.4%
Balkan 1.9%
Broadly Southern European 20.0%

Ashkenazi Jewish 15.3%

Northwestern European 12.5%
British & Irish 3.7%
Scandinavian 0.9%
Broadly Northwestern European 7.8%

Eastern European 0.2%

Broadly European 11.5%



#
Population
Percent


1
Caucasian
33.96


2
Neolithic
25.80


3
Steppe
16.19


4
NorthEastEuropean
11.82


5
NearEast
6.59


6
NorthAfrican
2.81


7
Indian
1.52





Finished reading population data. 516 populations found.
16 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Italian @ 3.810068
2 Greek @ 4.229321
3 Greek @ 4.778130
4 Albanian @ 6.053196
5 Greek @ 6.240767
6 Gagauz @ 6.561141
7 Kosovar @ 6.647440
8 Greek @ 6.737821
9 Italian @ 6.845923
10 Sicilian @ 6.990507
11 Italian @ 7.607857
12 Jew @ 7.940345
13 Italian @ 8.114046
14 Jew @ 8.275795
15 Jew @ 8.687042
16 Jew @ 8.920505
17 Romanian @ 8.980809
18 Maltese @ 9.041584
19 Bulgarian @ 9.113941
20 Greek @ 9.142041

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Cypriot +50% French @ 3.132054


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% French +25% Jew +25% Jew @ 2.403215


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++
1 Jew + Armenian + English + Spanish @ 1.607330
2 Armenian + English + Jew + Spanish @ 1.663090
3 Armenian + English + Jew + Spanish @ 1.694453
4 Armenian + English + Jew + Spanish @ 1.705359
5 Armenian + Cypriot + English + Spanish @ 1.723775
6 Armenian + Dutch + Jew + Spanish @ 1.750709
7 Armenian + English + Spanish + Jew @ 1.754526
8 Armenian + Scottish + Jew + Spanish @ 1.757841
9 Armenian + Hungarian + Jew + Spanish @ 1.776551
10 Jew + Armenian + English + Spanish @ 1.781777
11 Armenian + Italian + Provencal + Spanish @ 1.782881
12 Jew + Armenian + Irish + Spanish @ 1.790826
13 Armenian + Bosnian + French + Jew @ 1.793978
14 Armenian + Cypriot + Orcadian + Spanish @ 1.805219
15 Armenian + Dutch + Jew + Spanish @ 1.805576
16 Jew + Armenian + Scottish + Spanish @ 1.807223
17 Armenian + Cypriot + English + Spanish @ 1.817127
18 Armenian + French + Jew + Spanish @ 1.821414
19 Armenian + Scottish + Jew + Spanish @ 1.822890
20 Armenian + Croat + French + Jew @ 1.827996

Regio X
30-03-17, 04:13
Now we badly need data from Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Scotland, Wales and all Baltic and Slavic countries.From the same person:
(rounding off)
Portugal (n=30)
- Southern European: 81.2
italian: 5.7
balkan: 0.1
iberian: 59.0
broadly S.E.: 16.2
- Northwestern European: 11.8
french & german: 0.9
british & irish: 2.5
broadly NW.E.: 8.3
- Ashkenazi Jewish: 0.1
- Broadly European: 5.1
- MENA: 0.4
- Sub-Saharan: 0.2

Serbia (n=16)
- Southern European: 81.2
italian: 0.3
balkan: 75.5
iberian: 0.1
broadly S.E.: 5.3
- Northwestern European: 2.0
french & german: 0.3
broadly NW.E.: 1.6
- Eastern European: 9.0
- Broadly European: 7.4
- East Asian: 0.1
- South Asian: 0.1

Ed.: Ops. It's Serbia, not Croatia.

Regio X
30-03-17, 04:25
The following map, very interesting, was done from the same author. It shows the places where he found the highest scores for some 23andMe clusters so far, i.e., people from most of these places would be very well represented genetically by the reference samples - wherever they come from - which make up the related pop, then they don't get so much from others.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e102/paleoven/peak_zpslt8kizdi.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/paleoven/media/peak_zpslt8kizdi.jpg.html)

Maciamo
30-03-17, 08:23
The following map, very interesting, was done from the same author. It shows the places where he found the highest scores for some 23andMe clusters so far, i.e., people from most of these places would be very well represented genetically by the reference samples - wherever they come from - which make up the related pop, then they don't get so much from others.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e102/paleoven/peak_zpslt8kizdi.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/paleoven/media/peak_zpslt8kizdi.jpg.html)


That's great. My aim is to make distribution maps for each component once I get enough data for each country.

In my samples, the highest French & German is from Wallonia in Belgium (70%), and the highest Scandinavian are a Swede (89.6%) and a Norwegian (87%), who both exceed the figures in this map. The Norwegian is from Oslo, but I am not sure that's also where his ancestors come from. The southern Swedish-Norwegian border near Oslo may have the highest Scandinavian. Incidentally that's also where haplogroup I1 peaks (about 50% of the population).

mwauthy
30-03-17, 14:26
Very interesting map. British and Irish appears to be more Celtic than Anglo-Saxon. Don't understand why someone from Sardinia would be under 50%.

LeBrok
30-03-17, 16:41
Speculative
I'm from East Poland

Eastern European 85.7
Scandinavian 2.4
British Irish 0.8
Broadly NW European 2.7
Balkan 3.9
Broadly European 3.9

Angela
30-03-17, 16:53
Everything depends on 23andme's reference samples, which, other than the few academic samples they use, are not scientifically chosen, and therefore might not be representative of the areas involved. Many more testees at 23andme are Irish than English, because most clients are from the U.S. and there's a big population here that identifies as Irish. Any people of English descent usually consider themselves just "American".

In Italy, for example, the dot looks to be between Rome and Campania, which makes perfect sense as most of their testees are from southern Italy, but they have the big block of Tuscans from the 1000 genomes project which pulls the centrum northward. That dot does not mean that's where the most genetically "Italian" people can be found.

As for the "French-German" cluster, that is one of the least reliable of any of the clusters according to 23andme's own analysis. What they basically did is use the French Lyon sample, which is the only one that was available for a long time, and the Swiss samples. The southern French sample now available was not included. A high number for this basically tells you how "Swiss like" you are, because there are a lot more samples for that. Sardinian isn't much good either.

Scroll down to Testing and Validation at the following link:
https://www.23andme.com/ancestry-composition-guide/

The "map" results are totally predictable if you know how 23andme works.

By misinterpreting these results novices can be led astray.

Oh, in searching for the link for this white paper I discovered that in more recent white papers 23andme is telling people their results go back 500 years and more. Just google 23andme white papers and you'll find it. Of course, they're not going to acknowledge how often they were told that, including by me.

Maciamo
30-03-17, 20:14
I have made a few maps based on the data available so far. Needless to say that the frequencies will need to be adjusted once I get more data, especially for Spain, southern France and Central Europe. I extrapolated in some regions with no data when the admixture could not possibly have been above 1%.

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/23andMe_British_Irish.png

Looks like the distribution of R1b-L21 combined with specifically Anglo-Saxon and Frisian clades of R1b-U106.

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/23andMe_French_German.png

If this component is as high in Austria as in South Germany, then it could represent Hallstatt and La Tène ancestry. The two peaks are Switzerland and Wallonia, which were two centres of the La Tène culture. The map matches fairly well the distribution of Celtic branches of R1b-U152 (once Italic ones are removed).

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/23andMe_Scandinavian.png

Reminiscent of the distribution of Y-haplogroup I1, but with a sharper gradient (higher in Sweden-Norway, lower outside Scandinavia).

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/23andMe_Italian.png

A distribution that seems to include mostly the non-Celtic/Germanic ancestry in Italy. Apart from the Aegean Islands, this admixture is quite distinct from the Greek one, despite the heavy Greek colonisation of southern Italy. Therefore 23andMe seems to have cut (inadvertently?) the depth of ancestry to about 2000 years ago, right during the Roman period. As a result there is a good chance that this Italian admixture outside Italy corresponds to Roman ancestry, and indeed it is only found with in borders of the Roman Empire. I have a few samples from Turkey but this component varies hugely between individuals, from 1.5% to 10% (near Trabzon).

Regio X
30-03-17, 20:46
That's great. My aim is to make distribution maps for each component once I get enough data for each country.

In my samples, the highest French & German is from Wallonia in Belgium (70%), and the highest Scandinavian are a Swede (89.6%) and a Norwegian (87%), who both exceed the figures in this map. The Norwegian is from Oslo, but I am not sure that's also where his ancestors come from. The southern Swedish-Norwegian border near Oslo may have the highest Scandinavian. Incidentally that's also where haplogroup I1 peaks (about 50% of the population).Thanks, Maciamo! I'll update him.


From the same person:
(rounding off)
Portugal (n=30)
- Southern European: 81.2
italian: 5.7
balkan: 0.1
iberian: 59.0
broadly S.E.: 16.2
- Northwestern European: 11.8
french & german: 0.9
british & irish: 2.5
broadly NW.E.: 8.3
- Ashkenazi Jewish: 0.1
- Broadly European: 5.1
- MENA: 0.4
- Sub-Saharan: 0.2

Serbia (n=16)
- Southern European: 81.2
italian: 0.3
balkan: 75.5
iberian: 0.1
broadly S.E.: 5.3
- Northwestern European: 2.0
french & german: 0.3
broadly NW.E.: 1.6
- Eastern European: 9.0
- Broadly European: 7.4
- East Asian: 0.1
- South Asian: 0.1Portugal, Serbia, and now Denmark, from the same person.

Denmark (n=27)
- Southern European: 0.3
italian: 0.1
broadly S.E.: 0.1
- Northwestern European: 97.5
french & german: 7.9
british & irish: 17.1
scandinavian: 38.5
broadly NW.E.: 34.0
- Eastern European: 0.4
- Broadly European: 1.6

mwauthy
30-03-17, 21:27
Everything depends on 23andme's reference samples, which, other than the few academic samples they use, are not scientifically chosen, and therefore might not be representative of the areas involved. Many more testees at 23andme are Irish than English, because most clients are from the U.S. and there's a big population here that identifies as Irish. Any people of English descent usually consider themselves just "American".

In Italy, for example, the dot looks to be between Rome and Campania, which makes perfect sense as most of their testees are from southern Italy, but they have the big block of Tuscans from the 1000 genomes project which pulls the centrum northward. That dot does not mean that's where the most genetically "Italian" people can be found.

As for the "French-German" cluster, that is one of the least reliable of any of the clusters according to 23andme's own analysis. What they basically did is use the French Lyon sample, which is the only one that was available for a long time, and the Swiss samples. The southern French sample now available was not included. A high number for this basically tells you how "Swiss like" you are, because there are a lot more samples for that. Sardinian isn't much good either.

Scroll down to Testing and Validation at the following link:
https://www.23andme.com/ancestry-composition-guide/

The "map" results are totally predictable if you know how 23andme works.

By misinterpreting these results novices can be led astray.

Oh, in searching for the link for this white paper I discovered that in more recent white papers 23andme is telling people their results go back 500 years and more. Just google 23andme white papers and you'll find it. Of course, they're not going to acknowledge how often they were told that, including by me.

Thanks for the info. It was interesting to read the differences between precision and recall and how a lot of northwestern European gets tossed in the broadly category. I still don't understand how people in east central France would have 20% British and Irish with 90% precision. That's like almost one out of four grandparents. Is it because of ancient DNA markers that exist in both populations?

PaschalisB
30-03-17, 22:45
Some new people have shared with me, so here are some new averages:

Albania (n=12)
Balkan 86.86%
Italian 2.72%
Broadly South European 7.65%
East European 0.43%
Broadly Northwest European 0.44%
Middle Eastern & North African 0.02%
East Asian 0.1%

FYR Macedonia (n=4)
Balkan 71.38%
Italian 2.92%
Broadly South European 13.1%
East European 6.1%
Broadly Northwest European 1.05%
Middle Eastern & North African 0.02%
East Asian 0.15%

Angela
30-03-17, 22:48
Thanks for the info. It was interesting to read the differences between precision and recall and how a lot of northwestern European gets tossed in the broadly category. I still don't understand how people in east central France would have 20% British and Irish with 90% precision. That's like almost one out of four grandparents. Is it because of ancient DNA markers that exist in both populations?

I think that's the explanation for a lot of it. For years 23andme stuck with the "only 500 years" in the past mantra, when it was patently absurd. The issue is that some of the admixture might be from very recent migrations, some in the past. There's no way of knowing, and in some cases it might "stop too short", i.e. not be giving you the whole story because it isn't going back far enough. That's the problem with using algorithms based on modern populations.

Sakattack
31-03-17, 02:07
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/23andMe_Italian.png

A distribution that seems to include mostly the non-Celtic/Germanic ancestry in Italy. Apart from the Aegean Islands, this admixture is quite distinct from the Greek one, despite the heavy Greek colonisation of southern Italy. Therefore 23andMe seems to have cut (inadvertently?) the depth of ancestry to about 2000 years ago, right during the Roman period. As a result there is a good chance that this Italian admixture outside Italy corresponds to Roman ancestry, and indeed it is only found with in borders of the Roman Empire. I have a few samples from Turkey but this component varies hugely between individuals, from 1.5% to 10% (near Trabzon).

I am Cappadocian Greek and I score 36% Italian. Of course no Roman ancestry in my case (and many other Anatolian Greeks who tend to score really high Italian).

Cypriots score also high Italian.

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New Englander
31-03-17, 03:17
What populations get the highest Broad results for Southern Europe specifically?

davef
31-03-17, 04:18
I am Cappadocian Greek and I score 36% Italian. Of course no Roman ancestry in my case (and many other Anatolian Greeks who tend to score really high Italian).

Cypriots score also high Italian.

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Wow! That's interesting! Do you mind sharing your results with us? If you don't want to, that's ok with me and I won't quarrel.

Elizabeth60
31-03-17, 06:57
Here are the results of my all Irish family on 23andMe.

Mine

European 100%

Northwestern European 100.0%
British & Irish 94.3%
French & German 2.6%
Broadly Northwestern European 3.1%
Broadly European < 0.1%

Mother

Northwestern European 99.6%
British & Irish 91.4%

French & German 4.6%
Broadly Northwestern European 3.6%

Southern European 0.2%
Broadly European 0.3%

Brother

European 99.9%
Northwestern European 99.9%
British & Irish 97.5%
Broadly Northwestern European 2.4%
East Asian & Native American < 0.1%

Daughter

European 100%
Northwestern European 99.7%
British & Irish 92.9%
French & German 3.9%
Broadly Northwestern European 2.9%
Broadly European 0.3%

Maciamo
31-03-17, 09:55
I am Cappadocian Greek and I score 36% Italian. Of course no Roman ancestry in my case (and many other Anatolian Greeks who tend to score really high Italian).

How could you possibly know that you have no Roman ancestry? Nobody has a genealogy going back to Roman times.



Cypriots score also high Italian.


Would you happen to have a few samples to share?

Sakattack
31-03-17, 11:25
How could you possibly know that you have no Roman ancestry? Nobody has a genealogy going back to Roman times.



Would you happen to have a few samples to share?
Nobody can know for sure, when we talk about such deep ancestry, but it would be really illogical for all this Greek population of Asia Minor and Cyprus to be descendants of the Romans, because they score really high Italian and at the same time not at all or very tiny percentages of Balkan.

There have been never such massive Roman settlements at those areas.

Every 23andme sample from Anatolian Greeks (or Cypriots), follow this pattern (more than 90% of the classified as "European" ancestry to be "Italian".

Have a look at mine (first) and then check some Cypriots: https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170331/4ef4b4f9f6348d197579b551764a794c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170331/eca18532705a59eca77dee7d4a3c39d9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170331/7334a349b5fb84b99c6c040f437b6891.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170331/98f2bfb1f2adda75831ae143c5404e03.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170331/285385cecf31044617403b141d22be69.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170331/1e4f38d432e09708f5228396b0882635.jpg

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PaschalisB
31-03-17, 11:37
I now share with 2 people with 4 montenegrin grandparents (really rare to find)

Montenegro (n=2)
Balkan 85.75%
Italian 0.2%
Broadly South European 5.2%
East European 4.05%
British & Irish 1.05%
Broadly Northwest European 1.7%

Maciamo
31-03-17, 12:06
Nobody can know for sure, when we talk about such deep ancestry, but it would be really illogical for all this Greek population of Asia Minor and Cyprus to be descendants of the Romans, because they score really high Italian and at the same time not at all or very tiny percentages of Balkan.

There have been never such massive Roman settlements at those areas.

Every 23andme sample from Anatolian Greeks (or Cypriots), follow this pattern (more than 90% of the classified as "European" ancestry to be "Italian".

That is odd indeed. Let's just say for now that 23andMe misreports some Greek ancestry (Aegean, Anatolia, Cyprus) as Italian. But in western Europe the Italian is probably of Roman origin.

Maciamo
31-03-17, 12:08
I now share with 2 people with 4 montenegrin grandparents (really rare to find)

Montenegro (n=2)
Balkan 85.75%
Italian 0.2%
Broadly South European 5.2%
East European 4.05%
British & Irish 1.05%
Broadly Northwest European 1.7%

Perfect timing. I was just in the middle of making the Balkans map and only Montenegro was missing. ;)

Maciamo
31-03-17, 12:14
Here are more maps.

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/23andMe_Balkans.png


This admixture is very well defined in term of region. There is a very sharp drop as one leaves the Balkans. It would be nice to have some percentages for Slovenia, Austria, Czechia, Slovakia, Moldova and Ukraine too. Not single sample so far.

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/23andMe_Northwest_European.png

This component might be linked to some sort of R1b ancestry, but without Scotland, Wales, Austria, Czechia, Slovakia and Spain it will be difficult to determine whether it really represents some definable ancestry or not. At present it looks like a blend of Gaulish and German, like a combination of R1b-U106 and R1b-U152, which could complement quite well the French & German admxiture.

Sakattack
31-03-17, 12:35
That is odd indeed. Let's just say for now that 23andMe misreports some Greek ancestry (Aegean, Anatolia, Cyprus) as Italian. But in western Europe the Italian is probably of Roman origin.
Could be some shared Neolithic ancestry as well.

In any case looks really mislabeled and problematic.

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PaschalisB
31-03-17, 12:53
This admixture is very well defined in term of region. There is a very sharp drop as one leaves the Balkans. It would be nice to have some percentages for Slovenia, Austria, Czechia, Slovakia, Moldova and Ukraine too. Not single sample so far.


I share with a person with 3 slovak and 1 hungarian grandparent:
Balkan 13.3%
Italian 0%
Broadly South 3.7%
East European 51.5%
French & German 2.7%
Britsh & Irish 0.8%
Broadly Northwest 10.5%

Pratt
31-03-17, 14:21
It's amazing that Greek Aegean Islands have more 'Italian' than Veneto and Friuli and almost as much as Lombardy! Could it be because of Roman and/or Venetian colonisation? I wonder if they also look more Italian than the Greek average?



That is odd indeed. Let's just say for now that 23andMe misreports some Greek ancestry (Aegean, Anatolia, Cyprus) as Italian. But in western Europe the Italian is probably of Roman origin.

I don't know if it's real Italian ancestry in the Greek Aegean Islands. The 23andMe's Italian label peaks in Southern Italians, anywhere between Molise and Abruzzo, followed by Apulians. The 23andMe Italian category is based on Italian-Americans who are mostly of Southern Italian descent, and only secondarily and to some extent on Central Italians.

On 23andMe the Greek label is included in the Balkan category, and Balkan peaks in Montenegrins and Albanians, and in Greece there have been many migrations from Albania in recent centuries.

Autosomal map based on the data of 23andMe users of full Italian ancestry.


http://i.imgur.com/sRhb03A.png

Maciamo
31-03-17, 14:34
I don't know if it's real Italian ancestry in the Greek Aegean Islands. The 23andMe's Italian label peaks in Southern Italians, anywhere between Molise and Abruzzo, followed by Apulians. The 23andMe Italian category is based on Italian-Americans who are mostly of Southern Italian descent, and only secondarily and to some extent on Central Italians.

On 23andMe the Greek label is included in the Balkan category, and Balkan peaks in Montenegrins and Albanians, and in Greece there have been many migrations from Albania in recent centuries.

Autosomal map based on the data of 23andMe users of full Italian ancestry.


http://i.imgur.com/sRhb03A.png

Those are excellent maps! Kudos. Are you the author of the maps? If not, do you know who is?

Pratt
31-03-17, 14:38
Those are excellent maps! Kudos. Are you the author of the maps? If not, do you know who is?

The author is a 23andMe's Italian user, the map was posted in an Italian group on Facebook. If you're interested I can try to find his contact.

Maciamo
31-03-17, 14:59
The author is a 23andMe's Italian user, the map was posted in an Italian group on Facebook. If you're interested I can try to find his contact.

That would be great. What's the name of the Facebook group?

Pratt
31-03-17, 15:08
That map shows a pattern and a cline.

1) Italian and Balkan are scored by all the Italians. Balkan shows a Eastern-Western gradient, Italian a Southern-Northern gradient.

2) French & German and British & Irish are scored by Northern and Central Italians only (British & Irish by Sardinians too).

3) Iberian is scored by Northern and Central Italians, and only to a minor extent by Southern Italians like Abruzzesi and Molisani.

3) Mena is only scored by Southern Italians. It peaks in Southern Calabria and Eastern Sicily.

4) Eastern European is only scored by Friulani.

5) Sardinian is scored only by Sardinians (not higher than 27.6% though). Italians don't get on average more than 0.5%.

5) Italian users get a lot of Broadly Northwest European (1), Broadly European (2) and Broadly Southern European (3). Broadly Northwest European is scored by Northern and Central Italians, and to a minor exent by Abruzzesi, Molisani, and northern Campani and Pugliesi.

Pratt
31-03-17, 15:19
That would be great. What's the name of the Facebook group?

I got a reply, the author is a Venetian guy, Federico, the same user who made this graph already posted by Regio X. The map wasn't posted by himself in the group. So Regio X can put you in touch with Federico.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e102/paleoven/23andme_zpsadrzegdp.jpg

Regio X
31-03-17, 16:23
Those are excellent maps! Kudos. Are you the author of the maps? If not, do you know who is?The same guy. He also provides the following numbers, for Slovakia (n=16):

- Southern European: 14.3
italian: 0.1
balkan: 10.6
broadly S.E.: 3.6
- Northwestern European: 19.3
french & german: 3.5
british & irish: 1.4
scandinavian: 1.0
broadly NW.E.: 13.4
- Eastern European: 52.0
- Ashkenazi Jewish: 0.1
- Broadly European: 13.6 (it says 3.58, but it's probably a mistake)
- East Asian: 0.2

Maciamo
31-03-17, 17:29
The same guy. He also provides the following numbers, for Slovakia (n=16):

- Southern European: 14.3
italian: 0.1
balkan: 10.6
broadly S.E.: 3.6
- Northwestern European: 19.3
french & german: 3.5
british & irish: 1.4
scandinavian: 1.0
broadly NW.E.: 13.4
- Eastern European: 52.0
- Ashkenazi Jewish: 0.1
- Broadly European: 13.6 (it says 3.58, but it's probably a mistake)
- East Asian: 0.2

Thanks. I have updated all the maps. Please clear your browser cache to see the changes. It would be great to have some data for Spain (ideally with separate data for the Basques, Catalans and Galicians), Czechs and Austrians so that the maps finally look complete.

Pratt
31-03-17, 17:52
Thanks. I have updated all the maps. Please clear your browser cache to see the changes. It would be great to have some data for Spain (ideally with separate data for the Basques, Catalans and Galicians), Czechs and Austrians so that the maps finally look complete.

One Spanish result.

Maternal: Galicia, Cantabria, Asturias, Burgos, Granada, Almería y Málaga.
Paternal: Tóledo y Ávila.

http://i.imgur.com/KGUpi55.png


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovdYmgmdCV8

Sile
31-03-17, 19:26
My own statistics for Venetians (roots in TV and BL provinces mainly) based on 12 samples to which I have access, including 2 (my father and I) with a little "touch" of MN and 1 with a little touch of UD. :) The scores don't total 100% because of the rounding down, and I discarded those below 0,1%.

- Southern European: 55,3
italian: 31.0
balkan: 4.1
iberian: 1.3
sardinian: 0.1
broadly S.E.: 18.3
- Northwestern European: 36.2
french & german: 15.5
british & irish: 2.7
scandinavian: 0.1
broadly NW.E.: 18.2
- Eastern European: 0.2
- Ashkenazi Jewish: 0.2
- Broadly European: 8.0

My mother presents the highest Balkan % (7.6) from the list, followed by my father (7.1). I have the highest Iberian % (4.9) and Scandinavian % (0.8).

Excluding those 3:

- Southern European: 52,8
italian: 30.0
balkan: 3.5
iberian: 1.1
sardinian: 0.2
broadly S.E.: 17.3
- Northwestern European: 38.4
french & german: 17.7
british & irish: 1.5
scandinavian: 0.1
broadly NW.E.: 19.0
- Ashkenazi Jewish: 0.2
- Broadly European: 8.3

The statistics below are more accurate, because they include many more samples (from all parts of Veneto, I guess). They have been done some months ago by a 23andMe user from Veneto.
Veneto (n=38), Lombardy (n=24), Tuscany (n=12) and Sicily (n=50):
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e102/paleoven/23andme_zpsadrzegdp.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/paleoven/media/23andme_zpsadrzegdp.jpg.html)



Interesting how your french-german is above the average of 12%
, most likely due to your Belluno province of Veneto.

Following my paternal line via registry data , mine as well is usually above 12% but my line came from Trentino alto-adige prior to ~1600, towns of Magre`, Tres, Dermulo, Smarano and val de Sol.

Maybe the French-German really means the ancient alpine tribes be it french, italian, austrian, german, swiss etc

PaschalisB
01-04-17, 01:50
Greece - Ionian islands (n=3)
Balkan 37.73%
Italian 41.17%
Broadly South 13.97%
East 0.5%
Broadly Northwest 0.8%
MENA 3.53%

Regio X
01-04-17, 04:08
Interesting how your french-german is above the average of 12%
, most likely due to your Belluno province of Veneto.

Following my paternal line via registry data , mine as well is usually above 12% but my line came from Trentino alto-adige prior to ~1600, towns of Magre`, Tres, Dermulo, Smarano and val de Sol.

Maybe the French-German really means the ancient alpine tribes be it french, italian, austrian, german, swiss etcMost of my contacts with Venetian background are related to TV and get more than 12% (three have less). The F & G % in my list vary from 5.7 (this person has the highest British & I.) to 30%. Your son has the third highest F & G % I've ever seen in a Venetian. Possibly it represents some "Swiss like" ancestry. I don't know.

Elizabeth60
01-04-17, 04:59
It is going to be difficult to make those maps accurate as you would need a relatively large sample set. I share with a large amount of Irish people and while they have high levels of British & Irish they have slightly different amounts of other categories. Many have small amounts of Scandinavian, Finnish and surprisingly many have trace amounts of East Asian and Native American.

Stuvanè
01-04-17, 11:45
Hi everybody.
All my parents, grandparents and great-grandparents are italians from eastern Emilia (Ferrara/Bologna) and Romagna (Rimini/Forlì).
These are my results from 23andMe:

Italian 54.6%
Balkan 6.5%
Iberian 6.0%
Sardinian 0.3%
Broadly Southern European 16.0%
French & German 1.1%
Broadly Northwestern European 7.4%
Broadly European 7.2%
Middle Eastern & North African 0.8%
East Asian & Native American <0.1%
Sub-Saharan African <0.1%
Unassigned 0.2%

Maciamo
01-04-17, 18:47
It is going to be difficult to make those maps accurate as you would need a relatively large sample set. I share with a large amount of Irish people and while they have high levels of British & Irish they have slightly different amounts of other categories. Many have small amounts of Scandinavian, Finnish and surprisingly many have trace amounts of East Asian and Native American.

Would you mind posting the percentages of other Irish people with whom you are sharing? No need to mention their names of course.

Sile
01-04-17, 19:19
Most of my contacts with Venetian background are related to TV and get more than 12% (three have less). The F & G % in my list vary from 5.7 (this person has the highest British & I.) to 30%. Your son has the third highest F & G % I've ever seen in a Venetian. Possibly it represents some "Swiss like" ancestry. I don't know.

We know that Austrians became Austrians from 998AD and where initially Bavarians . We also know Bavarians where the last of the German groups to become German after the fall of the Roman Empire ...............the question seems to me is that who or where or are the Tyrolese ..........clearly they are either alpine Gallic tribes or Raetic tribes.

Belluno ( where some of your ancestors are from ) and south-tyrol clearly fall into ancient Raetic zones

Maciamo
02-04-17, 10:45
Here is the map of East European admixture. I would need more data from East Germany, Czechia, Austria, Slovenia, Estonia, northern Russia, Moldova, the Volga-Ural region, the Caucasus and Turkey to work out the gradients.

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/23andMe_East_European.png

PaschalisB
02-04-17, 17:08
Here is the map of East European admixture. I would need more data from East Germany, Czechia, Austria, Slovenia, Estonia, northern Russia, Moldova, the Volga-Ural region, the Caucasus and Turkey to work out the gradients.

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/23andMe_East_European.png

I think Serbia should have the same color (and percentages) as Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina. And does Turkey really have 1-5%?

Pratt
02-04-17, 20:40
These are results collected by myself. The Italian ones are not included in those already posted, as I know.



Italy - Piedmont (n=1)

-- Southern European: 57%
Italian: 34.1%
Balkan: 2.0%
Iberian: 1.6%
Broadly Southern European: 19.3%
-- Northwestern European: 33.5%
French & German: 9.2%
British & Irish: 4.2 %
Broadly Northwestern European: 20.1 %
-- Broadly European: 8.9%
--Middle Eastern & North African 0.3%
North African: 0.3%
- East Asian & Native American
Broadly East Asian: 0.1%




Italy - Lombardy (n=4)

-- Southern European: 71.8%
Italian: 51.3 %
Iberian: 3.9 %
Balkan: 1.3 %
Sardinian: 0.8%
Broadly Southern European: 14.5%
-- Northwestern European: 22.9%
French & German: 7.1 %
British & Irish: 2.3%
Broadly Northwestern European: 13.4 %
-- Broadly European: 5.2%



Italy - Tuscany (n=4)

-- Southern European: 81.9%
Italian: 63.9 %
Iberian: 2.5 %
Balkan: 1.7 %
Sardinian: 0.2%
Broadly Southern European: 13.6%
-- Northwestern European: 13.5%
French & German: 3.7 %
British & Irish: 2.1 %
Broadly Northwestern European: 7.7%
-- Broadly European: 4.5%
-- Ashkenazi Jewish: 0.02%


Italy - South Tyrol (n=1)

-- Southern European: 20.5%
Italian: 5.6%
Iberian: 1.7%
Sardinian: 1.1%
Broadly Southern European: 12.1%
-- Northwestern European: 72%
French & German: 42.6%
British & Irish: 5.8%
Scandinavian: 1.3%
Broadly Northwestern European: 22.3 %
-- Broadly European: 7.4%



Croatia - Dalmatia (n=1)

-- Southern European: 65.8%
Balkan: 61%
Broadly Southern European: 4.8%
-- Eastern European 23.5%
-- Broadly Northwestern European: 1.2%
-- Broadly European: 9.4%



Sweden (n=1)

-- Northwestern European: 98.5%
Scandinavian: 63.7%
French & German: 4.4%
British & Irish: 5.7%
Finnish: 0.9%
Broadly Northwestern European: 23.8%
-- Eastern European: 0.3%
-- Broadly European: 0.9%
-- East Asian & Native American: 0.2%

Maciamo
02-04-17, 21:30
I think Serbia should have the same color (and percentages) as Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina. And does Turkey really have 1-5%?

According to the 16 Serbian samples shared by Regio X, Serbia has only 9% of Eastern European, against 16-17% for Croatia and Bosnia.

I only have 5 samples from Turkey, but the average is 1.2% Eastern European.

Maciamo
02-04-17, 22:06
Here is the map of the Iberian admixture. I am sure there must be a gradient somewhere in Southwest Spain, but I'll need more regional data.

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/23andMe_Iberian.png

Elizabeth60
03-04-17, 04:44
Would you mind posting the percentages of other Irish people with whom you are sharing? No need to mention their names of course.

I'll go through and have a look. Do you just want the averages?

Maciamo
03-04-17, 08:21
I'll go through and have a look. Do you just want the averages?

Yes, you can post just the averages.

FBS
03-04-17, 11:41
Kosovar 6 people (23&me ancestry composition):

European 99.8%


Southern European 98.2%
Balkan 92.8%
Italian 1.4%
Broadly Southern European 4.0%
Northwestern European 0.6%
Scandinavian 0.5%
Broadly Northwestern European 0.1%
Broadly European 1.0%

European 99.3%


Southern European 97.8%
Balkan 91.5%
Italian 1.4%
Broadly Southern European 4.9%
Eastern European 0.6%
Northwestern European< 0.1%
Broadly Northwestern European< 0.1%
Broadly European0.9%

European 100.0%


Southern European 97.6%
Balkan 92.7%
Italian 0.3%
Broadly Southern European 4.6%
Eastern European 0.6%
Northwestern European 0.3%
Broadly Northwestern European 0.3%
Broadly European 1.4%


European 99.9%


Southern European 91.0%
Balkan 86.8%
Broadly Southern European4.2%
Eastern European6.5%
Northwestern European0.4%
Broadly Northwestern European0.4%
Broadly European2.0%


European100.0%


Southern European95.9%
Balkan92.1%
Italian0.2%
Broadly Southern European3.5%
Eastern European2.2%
Ashkenazi Jewish0.1%
Broadly European1.7%


European 99.4%


Southern European 95.3%
Balkan 84.4%
Italian 2.9%
Broadly Southern European 8.0%
Eastern European 1.6%
Northwestern European< 0.1%
Broadly Northwestern European< 0.1%
Broadly European2.5

Elizabeth60
04-04-17, 09:31
I've done a spreadsheet and averaged the % for 43 people that have fully Irish ancestry. When averaged there is very little other than overwhelmingly British & Irish.

Here is the breakdown.

Irish = n43

British & Irish 94.87%
French & German 0.77%
Scandinavian 0.30%
Finnish 0.01%
Broadly Northwestern European 3.4%

Iberian 0.00%
Ashkenazi 0.02%
Broadly Southern European 0.1%
Broadly European 0.4%
Unassigned 0.0%

I have a spreadsheet with all the percentages.

Maciamo
04-04-17, 10:37
I've done a spreadsheet and averaged the % for 43 people that have fully Irish ancestry. When averaged there is very little other than overwhelmingly British & Irish.

Here is the breakdown.

Irish = n43

British & Irish 94.87%
French & German 0.77%
Scandinavian 0.30%
Finnish 0.01%
Broadly Northwestern European 3.4%

Iberian 0.00%
Ashkenazi 0.02%
Broadly Southern European 0.1%
Broadly European 0.4%
Unassigned 0.0%

I have a spreadsheet with all the percentages.


Thank you, Elisabeth. That's very helpful. Do you know if there is any significant difference by region? I would think that Ulster probably has more French & German due to the Lowland Scots, while Dublin or Wexford might have more Scandinavian?

Elizabeth60
04-04-17, 11:52
Sorry I don't have specific regions. I did notice that the person with the lowest British & Irish was from Dublin. I think most of the people I share with are from the more country regions and there are about 3 from Donegal in there but all the people I added had stated that all their grandparents were Irish. There were quite a few with <0.1% Native Amerindian and East Asian and a couple with 0.1% but the people with 0 negated those trace amounts.

I have the full spreadsheet with all the breakdown. The lady from Dublin the highest amount of French & German with 4.7% and my mother was next with 4.6% and she is from Munster. What is very noticeable is the high amount of British & Irish that people get. The people that I have from Donegal appear to get the highest British and Irish with 98.1% and 98.4%. I'm sure if there was a large study you would find places like Dublin having lower amounts of British & Irish and the northwest having the higher amounts of British & Irish.

ToBeOrNotToBe
04-04-17, 21:29
Here is a table based on the results I have already received.

If you get Ashkenazi results could you perhaps inquire as to whether their ancestors were Eastern Ashkenazi or Western, and compare? Would be interesting as I don't think there are any studies on this.

ToBeOrNotToBe
04-04-17, 21:33
Thank you, Elisabeth. That's very helpful. Do you know if there is any significant difference by region? I would think that Ulster probably has more French & German due to the Lowland Scots, while Dublin or Wexford might have more Scandinavian?

I think the 23andme reference population for British contains Scandinavian, as I'd expect it to be way higher, surely.

Stratioti
04-04-17, 22:53
Im Albanian from kosovo(vrelle/istog).
Clan name Krasniqi.
Paternal line : E-V13
Maternal line: K1a1

Ancestry composition 23andme:

99.6% European

Southern European
89.7%Balkan
2.4%Italian
6.3%Broadly Southern European

Northwestern European
0.3%Broadly Northwestern European
0.1% Ashkenazi Jewish
0.8% Broadly European

0.4% East Asian & Native American
East Asian
< 0.1%Japanese
0.4%Broadly East Asian

< 0.1% Unassigned

Maciamo
04-04-17, 23:03
I think the 23andme reference population for British contains Scandinavian, as I'd expect it to be way higher, surely.

Don't be fooled by the labels. Real Scandinavian autosomal DNA includes a mixture of what 23andMe calls Broadly Northwest European, Scandinavian and even a small part of the British & Irish. The Scandinavian peaks in the population at the border of Norway and Sweden. Danes have as much 'Broadly Northwest European' as 'Scandinavian', and so the Anglo-Saxons would have had about 2 or 3 times as much 'Broadly Northwest European' as 'Scandinavian'. That's why there is so much more 'Broadly Northwest European' in Britain today. I have explained what is really behind the misleading 23andMe labels in the map descriptions here (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/autosomal_maps_dodecad.shtml#23andMe). It's odd that the got the South European admixtures to fix pretty well with the labels, but mixed up completely the Northwest European ones.

Stratioti
04-04-17, 23:38
-- deleted --

Twilight
05-04-17, 06:19
Holy Peanut Butter and Jelly Sandwich, you and 23andme have outdone yourselves in the updates Congratulations. As with Elizabeth, I apologize also for my ancestry is not specific to a certain population. However I'm curious, why is the admixture "Broadly European" in every European; what ancient civilization was 50%-100% Broadly European? Do you know what country/region the "broadly European" admixture peaks at? :)

Maciamo
05-04-17, 08:09
Holy Peanut Butter and Jelly Sandwich, you and 23andme have outdone yourselves in the updates Congratulations. As with Elizabeth, I apologize also for my ancestry is not specific to a certain population. However I'm curious, why is the admixture "Broadly European" in every European; what ancient civilization was 50%-100% Broadly European? Do you know what country/region the "broadly European" admixture peaks at? :)

Broadly European might represent shared Paleolithic or Mesolithic European ancestry. It is even found a bit in North Africa and the northern Middle East.

Hauteville
05-04-17, 10:21
94.1 European
71.6 Italian
5.9 Balkan
1.6 Sardinian
11.7 Nonspecific Southern European

2.1 Nonspecific Northern European
0.4 Ashkenazi
0.8 Nonspecific European

5.1 Middle Eastern

0.1 Nonspecific Sub-Saharan African

0.8 Unassigned

Maciamo
05-04-17, 16:34
Here is a map of the Broadly South European admixture. Not sure what it represents yet. It might be Neolithic farmer ancestry, or nothing definable.

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/23andMe_South_European.png

New Englander
05-04-17, 17:01
^ Thanks. Interesting. Southern Spain, Northern Italy, Moldova seem to be hot spots. The English areas might indicate Roman association. Looks to be just EEF...

Hauteville
06-04-17, 09:53
A Sicilian friend from Palermo

Italian 74.3
Balkan 3.7
Iberian 2.6
Broadly Southern European 11.5
Broadly Northwestern European 1.1
Eastern European 0.1
Broadly European 1.3

Middle Eastern 3.5
Broadly Middle Eastern & North African 0.9

Syky
08-04-17, 08:50
Here is the map of East European admixture. I would need more data from East Germany, Czechia, Austria, Slovenia, Estonia, northern Russia, Moldova, the Volga-Ural region, the Caucasus and Turkey to work out the gradients.

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/23andMe_East_European.png

Here are my Czech samples, but most of them are from Northeastern Moravia where my 23andme matches come from. I would describe ancestry of this region as more Slavic than most of the country. In last 500 years it was under clear genetic influence of two foreign groups of peoples. First are Sudeten Germans (almost everyone I know from there has some more or less distant German in his/her family tree). From 16th century it was also influenced by Vlachs, highland pastoralists with original Balkan-like and East Slavic-like culture. They originated in Balkan highlands (Northern Greece, Bulgaria, Romania) where are now called Aromuns, but they mixed with aborigines through their journey along Carpathian Mountains. Their influence is evident from culture of eastern Moravia, linguistics (eastern Slavic and Romanian-like dialect), average physical appearance (dinaroid or „east slavic“ facial structure uncommon in Bohemians or other Moravians, higher stature, more frequent darker skin) and haplogroups (I2a1b, J2, E, R1a). But I think Vlachs were in fact more East Slavic than Balkanic autosomally.
Please interpret my results as Moravian and not generally Czech, I think Bohemians would score different.




CZ1
CZ2
CZ3
CZ4
CZ5
CZ6
CZ7
AVERAGE


EASTERN EUROPEAN
47.5
64.7
43.9
47.4
52.9
69.1
44.8
52.9


N.W. EUROPAN
16.7
10.2
37.3
25.9
32.4
12.8
16.2
21.6


French+German
2.2
1.7
9.6
5.6
8.8
0
0
4.0


Scandinavian
1.5
1.6
1.9
0
0
3.1
0
1.2


British+Irish
0.5
0.2
2.6
0
2.4
0
0
0.8


Broadly NWE
12.6
6.8
23.1
20.4
21.2
9.7
16
15.7


SOUTHERN EUROPEAN
16
17.8
8.2
14.2
3.9
9
16.5
12.2


Balkan
14.3
14.2
7.5
11.9
0.6
7.1
7.9
9.1


Broadly Southern E.
1.3
3.6
0.7
2.3
0.8
1.8
8.6
2.7


BROADLY EUROPEAN
19.7
7.3
10.4
12.5
10.7
9
20
12.8



Note that the results between individuals are quite different. All of the samples have of course 4 grandparents from Czechia.
CZ1 - Me, Northeastern Moravian/Silesian (Slavic or Wallachian surname)
CZ2 - Northeastern Moravian/Silesian (Wallachian surname)
CZ3 - Northeastern Moravian/Silesian (German surname)
CZ4 - Mixed Southern and Northern Moravian (unknown surname)
CZ5 - Mixed Bohemian and Moravian (common Czech surname)
CZ6 - Moravian (Slavic surname)
CZ7 - Silesian from around Polish border (unknown surname)

Maciamo
08-04-17, 11:33
Here are my Czech samples, but most of them are from Northeastern Moravia where my 23andme matches come from. I would describe ancestry of this region as more Slavic than most of the country. In last 500 years it was under clear genetic influence of two foreign groups of peoples. First are Sudeten Germans (almost everyone I know from there has some more or less distant German in his/her family tree). From 16th century it was also influenced by Vlachs, highland pastoralists with original Balkan-like and East Slavic-like culture. They originated in Balkan highlands (Northern Greece, Bulgaria, Romania) where are now called Aromuns, but they mixed with aborigines through their journey along Carpathian Mountains. Their influence is evident from culture of eastern Moravia, linguistics (eastern Slavic and Romanian-like dialect), average physical appearance (dinaroid or „east slavic“ facial structure uncommon in Bohemians or other Moravians, higher stature, more frequent darker skin) and haplogroups (I2a1b, J2, E, R1a). But I think Vlachs were in fact more East Slavic than Balkanic autosomally.
Please interpret my results as Moravian and not generally Czech, I think Bohemians would score different.




CZ1
CZ2
CZ3
CZ4
CZ5
CZ6
CZ7
AVERAGE


EASTERN EUROPEAN
47.5
64.7
43.9
47.4
52.9
69.1
44.8
52.9


N.W. EUROPAN
16.7
10.2
37.3
25.9
32.4
12.8
16.2
21.6


French+German
2.2
1.7
9.6
5.6
8.8
0
0
4.0


Scandinavian
1.5
1.6
1.9
0
0
3.1
0
1.2


British+Irish
0.5
0.2
2.6
0
2.4
0
0
0.8


Broadly NWE
12.6
6.8
23.1
20.4
21.2
9.7
16
15.7


SOUTHERN EUROPEAN
16
17.8
8.2
14.2
3.9
9
16.5
12.2


Balkan
14.3
14.2
7.5
11.9
0.6
7.1
7.9
9.1


Broadly Southern E.
1.3
3.6
0.7
2.3
0.8
1.8
8.6
2.7


BROADLY EUROPEAN
19.7
7.3
10.4
12.5
10.7
9
20
12.8



Note that the results between individuals are quite different. All of the samples have of course 4 grandparents from Czechia.
CZ1 - Me, Northeastern Moravian/Silesian (Slavic or Wallachian surname)
CZ2 - Northeastern Moravian/Silesian (Wallachian surname)
CZ3 - Northeastern Moravian/Silesian (German surname)
CZ4 - Mixed Southern and Northern Moravian (unknown surname)
CZ5 - Mixed Bohemian and Moravian (common Czech surname)
CZ6 - Moravian (Slavic surname)
CZ7 - Silesian from around Polish border (unknown surname)

Great! That's very helpful.

Sile
09-04-17, 21:06
Here is a map of the Broadly South European admixture. Not sure what it represents yet. It might be Neolithic farmer ancestry, or nothing definable.

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/23andMe_South_European.png

Is it necessary to have a "broadly" map ?..............as it seems Broadly means - we do not know

Sile
09-04-17, 21:09
Here is the map of the Iberian admixture. I am sure there must be a gradient somewhere in Southwest Spain, but I'll need more regional data.

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/23andMe_Iberian.png

Seems correct to me .............

Sile
09-04-17, 21:13
Most of my contacts with Venetian background are related to TV and get more than 12% (three have less). The F & G % in my list vary from 5.7 (this person has the highest British & I.) to 30%. Your son has the third highest F & G % I've ever seen in a Venetian. Possibly it represents some "Swiss like" ancestry. I don't know.

my sons results must come via his mother as her K1a4 matches are Villach, Linz, and other Austrian places .............she also has veneti, friuli, finnish and bulgarian matches ...and surprising no other italian matches

Sile
09-04-17, 21:34
My relative below..............ancestors originally from Aviano and Porcia in Friuli


Southern European 26.0%
Italian 9.9%
Balkan 3.4%
Broadly Southern European 10.7%

Northwestern European 67.3%
French and German 18.1%
British & Irish 18%
Broadly Northwestern European 29.3%

Eastern European 3.2%
Broadly European 5.5%


His paternal line has always been around the livenza river of NE-Italy

and his great great grand mothers side origins are from western hungary/austria and eastern slovenian area

Maciamo
10-04-17, 08:19
Is it necessary to have a "broadly" map ?..............as it seems Broadly means - we do not know

The Broadly South European is probably linked to Neolithic European farmer (EEF) ancestry as it peaks in the Sardinians (23%) and Basques, as well as Friuli (Italian Alps have a lot of Neoilthic lineages, including your T1a2) and southern Iberia. Tellingly it is also found in Northwest Africa, just like the Dodecad Atlantic-Med and Eurogenes Atlantic admixtures, which also peak in Basques and Sardinians, and were confirmed to be very high in Neolithic West European samples run in GEDMatch.

23andMe may not have been able to identify the 'Broadly' components, but that doesn't mean they are junk. The Broadly Northwest European is actually one of the most useful maps as it represents mostly West Germanic ancestry. You should really read my explanations (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/autosomal_maps_dodecad.shtml#Broadly_Northwest_Eur opean) before posting.

Eldritch
10-04-17, 22:44
My relative below..............ancestors originally from Aviano and Porcia in Friuli


Southern European 26.0%
Italian 9.9%
Balkan 3.4%
Broadly Southern European 10.7%

Northwestern European 67.3%
French and German 18.1%
British & Irish 18%
Broadly Northwestern European 29.3%

Eastern European 3.2%
Broadly European 5.5%


His paternal line has always been around the livenza river of NE-Italy

and his great great grand mothers side origins are from western hungary/austria and eastern slovenian area
Ethnic Italian?

Very high northern europe results

Tomenable
11-04-17, 13:16
Maciamo here is a chart with 16 Polish results in DNA Land:

https://i.imgur.com/tDt6At6.png

https://i.imgur.com/tDt6At6.png

I have 23andMe results for some, but not for all, of them.

Generally (but there can be exceptions) DNA Land "North Slavic" = 23andMe "Eastern European".

For example Pole number "11" from my chart scores:

1) In DNA Land:

100% West Eurasian, including:

77% North Slavic
11% South-Western European
8.9% Mediterranean Islander
2.7% North-West European
[and 0.4% is still missing?]

2) In 23andMe:

100% European, including:

74.7% Eastern European
10.8% North-West European
6.8% Southern European
1.5% Ashkenazi Jewish
6.2% Broadly European

So it seems that some of North-West Euro from 23andMe got counted as South-West Euro in DNA Land. It also seems that Ashkenazi and Broadly Euro from 23andMe, got counted as Med. Islander in DNA Land.

Later I will post more 23andMe (maybe also FTDNA and more DNA Land) Polish results.

Tomenable
11-04-17, 13:25
DNA Land seems to be very accurate for Poles and mostly in line with 23andMe.

In my graph Davidski is Pole number "14".

Davidski in DNA Land has 80% North Slavic, 10% Balkan, 10% North-West Euro. I haven't seen his 23andMe but you told me that he scores 90% Eastern European. DNA Land seems to be more accurate for him, considering what is his ancestry (he is a mix of Baltic Poles and Western Poles - and I assume that his Baltic Polish ancestors would be scoring 100% North Slavic and 100% Eastern European).

Now some Latvian and Belarusian results (but not from 23andMe):

Here are Latvian FTDNA MyOrigins, Geno 2.0 NG and DNA Land results:

100% Eastern European
100% Eastern European
96% Eastern Europe + 2% Finland & Northern Siberia
98% Eastern European + 2% Finnish & Siberian (DNA Land - 100% North Slavic)
88% Eastern Europe + 12% Finland & Northern Siberia (DNA Land - 92% North Slavic, 2.1% Ambiguous Northeast European, 5.2% Northwest European, 1.2% Ambiguous)
89% Eastern European + 11% Finnish & Siberian (DNA Land - 100% North Slavic)

Interestingly a supposedly 50% Baltic German + 50% Latvian got:

89% Eastern European + 11% Finnish & Siberian (DNA Land - 100% North Slavic)

And here is how one Latvian user tried to explain that result:


I'm starting to think some Baltic German families actually ended up with lots of Latvian genes mixed in whether from way back when it was probably most Latvian women around and not many German, or more recently. Some could even be early free Latvians who ended up being considered Germans and the actual heritage forgotten (or hidden for better job opportunities)

And two more people, only DNA Land results this time:

Ethnic Belarusian:

96,0% N.Slavic + 3,9% NW.Euro

Ethnic Latvian:

92,0% North Slavic + 2,1% Finnish + 5,2% NW.Euro + 1,2% Ambig.

"North Slavic" from DNA Land peaks in Belarusians, Lithuanians, Latvians and some Russians.

Tomenable
11-04-17, 14:21
Some Non-Polish Slavic results:

Ethnic Czech DNA Land (43% North Slavic):

43% North Slavic
33% North-West Euro
24% Balkan

Same Czech 23andMe (47% Eastern Euro):

46,6% Eastern European
22,0% Broadly European*
16,2% North-West European
15,1% South-East Euro (mostly Balkan)
0,1% East Asian

*Not sure why such a huge amount of this?

Ethnic Slovakian (60% North Slavic):


http://i.imgur.com/jtEMdMU.jpg

Ethnic Croatian (41% North Slavic / 46% North-East Euro in total):

http://i.imgur.com/eGFUSJQ.png

Dalmatian Croatian (23% North Slavic / 25% North-East Euro in total):

http://s18.postimg.org/z9iodrsu1/dnaland2.png

Dalmatian Serbian 1 (34% North Slavic):

http://i.imgur.com/hVHcM5p.jpg

=================================

And these two results = the same person, who gets:

1) In DNA Land - 23% North Slavic
2) In 23andMe - 20% Eastern Euro

Dalmatian Serbian 2 (DNA Land):

http://i.imgur.com/qiIOzRU.png

Dalmatian Serbian 2 (23andMe):

http://i.imgur.com/0MGe829.png

Tomenable
11-04-17, 14:44
As you can see, generally North Slavic = Eastern European, +/- few percent.

The biggest difference so far is in case of Davidski (10% difference).

Soon I will post more 23andMe results, and compare them with DNA Land. I have more DNA Land results because not everyone tests with 23andMe, but everyone can upload to DNA Land (also people who test with FTDNA, etc.).

Tomenable
11-04-17, 14:54
This is Pole number "6" from my DNA Land graph. She scores:

1) In 23andMe - 70% Eastern Euro + 0,4% Finnish
2) In DNA Land - 64% North Slavic + 2% Finnish

Note: DNA Land counts Finnish as part of North-Eastern European. On the other hand, 23andMe apparently counts Finnish as part of North-Western European (which is ridiculous in my opinion).

http://i.imgur.com/Cdy5fFA.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/HBqJUI4.jpg

New Englander
11-04-17, 15:55
European 97.8%

Middle Eastern & North African 2.1%

East Asian & Native American 0.1%

Unassigned< 0.1%


European97.8%

Southern European 58.3%

Italian 36.4%

Balkan 1.9%

Broadly Southern European 20.0%


Ashkenazi Jewish 15.3%


Northwestern European 12.5%

British & Irish 3.7%

Scandinavian 0.9%

Broadly Northwestern European 7.8%


Eastern European 0.2%


Broadly European 11.5%

New Englander
11-04-17, 15:58
https://scontent-dft4-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12985529_10206218407394539_5355028708534521660_n.j pg?oh=e27df6a719440b8ae7310a00b7e78444&oe=5988F1D2\

DNA land for comparison.

Maciamo
11-04-17, 20:33
I have updated all the maps based on more detailed regional data from Spain and Portugal.

Tomenable
11-04-17, 20:46
Maciamo I will try to collect a larger sample for Poland based exclusively on 23andMe. I think that there is a gradient of Eastern Euro within Poland. As for LeBrok and Davidski, they are both partially from Eastern regions which ceased to be part of Poland after WW2, so they are both probably Eastern-shifted compared to the average Pole.

I haven't tested with 23andMe and I probably won't order it anytime soon. I think that I will order Living DNA because they have a discount for eligible persons now (and I'm probably eligible due to my regional ancestry).

Sile
11-04-17, 22:40
I have updated all the maps based on more detailed regional data from Spain and Portugal.

Is post#2 updated as well?

srdceleva
13-04-17, 01:04
Bojko rusyn results , comes from the border between south east Poland and Western Ukraine.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170412/8ae81c249a0c6d9f82cfedc239569a4f.jpg

srdceleva
15-04-17, 00:38
Northern Belarusian guy https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170414/4601c9f2f7c6acf2101840e99035a139.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170414/04a992bfdfff697e7d2147366a77fea3.jpg

Maciamo
15-04-17, 12:51
I have updated the East European map and added a new shade for over 80%. But without knowing where the Polish samples come from, it's hard to figure out the boundary between the 60-70%, 70-80% and >80%.

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/23andMe_East_European.png

Syky
15-04-17, 17:14
I have updated the East European map and added a new shade for over 80%. But without knowing where the Polish samples come from, it's hard to figure out the boundary between the 60-70%, 70-80% and >80%.

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/23andMe_East_European.png

Thanks, Maciamo! I am sorry I post it so late. Here are my matches from some European countries with 4 grandparents from their country:




PL1 - MIX S+NE
PL2 - S-PL


EASTERN EUROPEAN
85.8
89.9


N.W. EUROPAN
6.3
4


French+German
0
0


Scandinavian
1.1
0.6


British+Irish
0
0


Broadly NWE
5.2
3.5


SOUTHERN EUROPEAN
4
3.4


Balkan
1.8
1.8


Broadly Southern E.
2.2
1.7


BROADLY EUROPEAN
3.9
2.6








GER1
GER2 - Bavaria


EASTERN EUROPEAN
3.7
10.9


N.W. EUROPAN
85.8
63.6


French+German
37.2
16.7


Scandinavian
6.3
3.9


British+Irish
14
6.3


Broadly NWE
28.3
36.5


SOUTHERN EUROPEAN
6.4
13.5


Italian
2.1
2.3


Iberian
1.8
0.5


Balkan
0
1.6


Broadly Southern E.
2.5
9.1


BROADLY EUROPEAN
3.4
11.4








SK1
SK2


EASTERN EUROPEAN
58
61.9


N.W. EUROPAN
16.8
4


French+German
0.9
0


Scandinavian
1.3
0


British+Irish
0.4
1


Broadly NWE
14.2
3


SOUTHERN EUROPEAN
11.4
18.5


Italian
0
0.2


Iberian
0
0


Balkan
9.9
12.8


Broadly Southern E.
1.5
5.6


BROADLY EUROPEAN
13.8
12.9








UKR1 - Ternopil
UKR2


EASTERN EUROPEAN
66.1
68.4


N.W. EUROPAN
6.7
6.3


French+German
0.5
0


Scandinavian
0
0


British+Irish
0.3
0


Broadly NWE
5.8
5.2


SOUTHERN EUROPEAN
15.9
15.1


Italian
0
0


Iberian
0
0


Balkan
11.9
11.2


Broadly Southern E.
4
3.9


BROADLY EUROPEAN
11.1
9.4








LITHUANIAN


EASTERN EUROPEAN
94.8



N.W. EUROPAN
2.5



French+German
0



Scandinavian
0



British+Irish
0



Broadly NWE
2.5



SOUTHERN EUROPEAN
0.2



Italian
0



Iberian
0.2



Balkan
0



Broadly Southern E.
0.1



BROADLY EUROPEAN
2.4









GREEK



EASTERN EUROPEAN
0



N.W. EUROPAN
1.7



French+German
0



Scandinavian
0



British+Irish
0.2



Broadly NWE
1.4



SOUTHERN EUROPEAN
96



Italian
13.5



Iberian
0



Balkan
72.1



Broadly Southern E.
10.5



BROADLY EUROPEAN
1.6









NORWEGIAN


EASTERN EUROPEAN
0.1



N.W. EUROPAN
99.3



French+German
1.1



Scandinavian
77.8



British+Irish
9.9



Broadly NWE
10.5



SOUTHERN EUROPEAN
0



Italian
0



Iberian
0



Balkan
0



Broadly Southern E.
0



BROADLY EUROPEAN
0.5




Here is a Czech-Slovak with 3 grandparents from Czechia and 1 from Western Slovakia (it is very similar to Czechs):




3CZ+1SK


EASTERN EUROPEAN
42.3


N.W. EUROPAN
32.5


French+German
3


Scandinavian
0.6


British+Irish
1.3


Broadly NWE
27.6


SOUTHERN EUROPEAN
10.4


Italian
0


Iberian
0


Balkan
7.1


Broadly Southern E.
3.2


BROADLY EUROPEAN
14.6

Syky
15-04-17, 17:39
Some Non-Polish Slavic results:

Ethnic Czech DNA Land (43% North Slavic):

43% North Slavic
33% North-West Euro
24% Balkan

Same Czech 23andMe (47% Eastern Euro):

46,6% Eastern European
22,0% Broadly European*
16,2% North-West European
15,1% South-East Euro (mostly Balkan)
0,1% East Asian

*Not sure why such a huge amount of this?



It's me with old 23andme! :good_job: I think Maciamo has already used my results.
Here is a Bohemian from Central Bohemian Region (around Prague) on DNA.Land:
8624

Maciamo
15-04-17, 19:53
Thanks a lot Tomenable, srdceleva and Syky for sharing this new data. I have further refined the East European map by making the shades more distinct from one another as I couldn't see well the difference between the 30-40, 40-50 and 50-60.

I have also updated the Balkans, BSE, BNWE, French & German, and British & Irish maps. Don't forget to clear your browser cache to see the changes.

PBT
17-04-17, 23:03
From Madrid, Spain.

Ancestors from Madrid, Cataluña, Guadalajara and Extremadura.

Paternal line : R1b
Maternal line: X

Ancestry composition 23andme:

99.8% European

Southern European 80.9%
67.9% Iberian
2.5% Italian
10.4% Broadly Southern European

Northwestern European 15.3%
7.0% British & Irish
0.2% French & German
8.1% Broadly Northwestern European

0.2% Ashkenazi Jewish

3.4% Broadly European

< 0.1% Oceanian

< 0.1% North African

< 0.1% Unassigned

Tomenable
18-04-17, 14:20
Here is a Bohemian from Central Bohemian Region (around Prague) on DNA.Land:
8624(S)he has so much of "Ambiguous" because (s)he uploaded the file soon after DNA Land launched its services. Tell him/her to re-upload his/her raw data, I'm quite sure that the results are going to be different this time.

srdceleva
18-04-17, 15:57
23 and me results for an ethnic rusyn from far east Slovakia https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170418/24922ce0aba6b13ab69df776c3e42428.jpg

Kotroman
20-04-17, 19:25
23andMe results for an ethnic Bosniak Muslim from southwestern Serbia (municipality of Prijepolje):

European: 99.6%
Balkan: 78.1%
Italian: 1%
Broadly Southern European: 5.3%
Eastern European: 6.6%
Broadly Northwestern European: 3.5%
Broadly European: 5.0%

After transferring from 23andMe to DNA.Land:

West Eurasian: 100%
North Slavic: 33%
Balkan: 23%
Mediterranean Islander: 18%
Northwest European: 15%
Sardinian: 5.2%
Ashkenazi: 3.2%
Central Asian: 1.5%

Syky
21-04-17, 13:49
23andMe results for an ethnic Bosniak Muslim from southwestern Serbia (municipality of Prijepolje):

European: 99.6%
Balkan: 78.1%
Italian: 1%
Broadly Southern European: 5.3%
Eastern European: 6.6%
Broadly Northwestern European: 3.5%
Broadly European: 5.0%

After transferring from 23andMe to DNA.Land:

West Eurasian: 100%
North Slavic: 33%
Balkan: 23%
Mediterranean Islander: 18%
Northwest European: 15%
Sardinian: 5.2%
Ashkenazi: 3.2%
Central Asian: 1.5%

Equally Balkanic as me on DNA.Land. Interesting...

Tomenable
29-04-17, 13:31
Their methodology is designed in such a way, that they can ignore minor and older admixtures:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/33993-Why-23andMe-only-tells-you-about-the-last-500-1000-years?p=507243&viewfull=1#post507243


23andMe's speculative mode greatly overestimates major components, and underestimates minor components. This is due to their methodology of snipping the genome into 100 SNP segments to compare against the limited references they have. So for example, if 60% of the the segment indicates Middle Eastern, and 40% indicates S Asian, that segment is assigned 100% Middle Eastern. In effect 40% of the segment, which is S Asian is ignored, and the whole segment is assigned Middle-Eastern.

Also, their methodology includes segment smoothing, which means if there are chunks of minor components in a segment, they are ignored.

That is how Iranians and W Asians turn out 98-100% Middle Eastern, and folks in neighboring Pakistan turn out 98-100% S Asian in speculative mode.

This naturally is unrealistic and uninformative, because you don't need a test to tell you that. Conservative mode is better with regards to inflation of major components and underestimation of minor components, but the trouble here is that people get 5-70% unassigned. This is where your minor components are hidden.

The above translates to 23andMe being useless for figuring out your minor components to any degree of accuracy.

Their ancestry report tells you more about recent geographical affinities than deep genetic affinities.

I think that GEDmatch is still the best if you want to know your "racial breakdown" (so to speak).

Pax Augusta
29-04-17, 14:52
Their methodology is designed in such a way, that they can ignore minor and older admixtures:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/33993-Why-23andMe-only-tells-you-about-the-last-500-1000-years?p=507243&viewfull=1#post507243
Their ancestry report tells you more about recent geographical affinities than deep genetic affinities.

I think that GEDmatch is still the best if you want to know your "racial breakdown" (so to speak).

It doesn't exist a "best for all people", there are different perspectives. Racial? Extremely laughable.

Pax Augusta
29-04-17, 15:20
my sons results must come via his mother as her K1a4 matches are Villach, Linz, and other Austrian places .............she also has veneti, friuli, finnish and bulgarian matches ...and surprising no other italian matches

You probably have already read this

"The mitogenomes of 42 haplogroup K individuals from Eastern Italian Alps were analyzed (Table S1). The most frequently observed K1 Alpine haplogroups were K1a4 and K1a1, similar to the worldwide K1 distribution (Fig. 1) and K1a + 195 (Table S2). Rare haplogroups were also observed in this study such as K1a19 and K1a24, and K1e1, which was represented in our dataset by a novel haplotype defined by a specific transition in the coding region (transition A15244G; sample #111Gm in the Fig. S2). Neither the Iceman’s lineage nor any other intermediate haplotypes of K1f were detected."

Whole mitochondrial DNA sequencing in Alpine populations and the genetic history of the Neolithic Tyrolean Iceman

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4725900/

Tomenable
29-04-17, 21:05
Racial?

Such ones, which show real genetic affinities, rather than recent geographical origins.

Sile
30-04-17, 07:54
You probably have already read this

"The mitogenomes of 42 haplogroup K individuals from Eastern Italian Alps were analyzed (Table S1). The most frequently observed K1 Alpine haplogroups were K1a4 and K1a1, similar to the worldwide K1 distribution (Fig. 1) and K1a + 195 (Table S2). Rare haplogroups were also observed in this study such as K1a19 and K1a24, and K1e1, which was represented in our dataset by a novel haplotype defined by a specific transition in the coding region (transition A15244G; sample #111Gm in the Fig. S2). Neither the Iceman’s lineage nor any other intermediate haplotypes of K1f were detected."

Whole mitochondrial DNA sequencing in Alpine populations and the genetic history of the Neolithic Tyrolean Iceman

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4725900/

all 42 have been placed with GenBank via Ian Logan

Twilight
03-05-17, 00:52
The French & German and the British & Irish components are less useful to differentiate ancient ancestry in the Benelux, as they are both hybrid components mixing ancient Celtic and Germanic populations.

The British & Irish component, although peaking in the British Isles, might represent Germanic ancestry of Danish, Saxon and Frisian origin in the Low Countries, where Insular Celtic ancestry in very low. 23andMe simply seems to have amalgamated all ancestries found in Ireland and Scotland to create this component, including Anglo-Saxon DNA. It should ideally be split in two to clearly differentiate Celtic from West Germanic ancestry. Outside the British Islesand France, this admixture peaks in Northwest Germany and Frisia, the ancient homeland of the Anglo-Saxons. It is higher in Flanders (23.5%, ranging from 16% to 38%) higher than Wallonia (17.5%, ranging from 6% to 30%), which makes sense since the Germanic ancestry of Flemings comes from both the Saxons and Franks, while in Wallonia is comes mostly from the Franks. Interestingly, the Dutch provinces of Noord-Brabant and Limburg get a closer score (17%) to Wallonia, and also have more Frankish ancestry historically. The northern provinces score 20 to 25%, similar to Denmark and Flanders. The Dutch average is 25%.
The French & German shows the reverse pattern of the British & Irish component. This admixture probably correspond to a blend of Gaulish and Frankish ancestry. It is in fact higher in Wallonia (45%, ranging from 28% to 70%) than in Flanders (36%, ranging from 10% to 46%). The Netherlands also has a strong north-south gradient, with 40% in the south and 18% in the north. The French and German admixture peaks in Wallonia, southern Germany and Switzerland, a region were the Franks and Alemani/Suebi mixed with the descendants of the La Tène Celts.

Hey Maciamo, do you know if there are any DNA samples from Iron Age German/Roman's Germania Tribes? I'm wondering if there is an algarithm us Western Europeans can use to differentiate our Celtic and Germanic ancestry. :)

Maciamo
03-05-17, 13:45
Hey Maciamo, do you know if there are any DNA samples from Iron Age German/Roman's Germania Tribes? I'm wondering if there is an algarithm us Western Europeans can use to differentiate our Celtic and Germanic ancestry. :)

Iron Age British Celts and Anglo-Saxons were both tested (Hinxton genomes). Unfortunately we can't run their genomes on 23andMe to see what their admixtures would be.

Stratioti
04-05-17, 23:17
A couple Albanians that shared their genome via 23andme:



99.8%
European

Southern European
90.7%
Balkan
1.0%
Italian
3.1%
Broadly Southern European

Northwestern European
1.6%
Broadly Northwestern European
3.4%
Broadly European
0.2%
East Asian & Native American

East Asian
0.2%
Yakut
< 0.1%
Broadly East Asian
< 0.1%
Unassigned


_____________________________






99.6%
European

Southern European
86.1%
Balkan
0.7%
Sardinian
4.8%
Broadly Southern European
3.8%
Eastern European

Northwestern European
0.9%
Broadly Northwestern European
0.2%
Ashkenazi Jewish
3.3%
Broadly European
0.3%
East Asian & Native American

East Asian
0.3%
Broadly East Asian
< 0.1%
Broadly East Asian & Native American
< 0.1%
Sub-Saharan African
< 0.1%
Central & South African
< 0.1%
Unassigned


___________________________




100%
European

Southern European
94.4%
Balkan
4.7%
Broadly Southern European
0.4%
Eastern European
0.1%
Ashkenazi Jewish

Northwestern European
0.1%
Broadly Northwestern European
0.3%
Broadly European


_________________________-
99.7%
European

Southern European
93.3%
Balkan
4.6%
Broadly Southern European

Northwestern European
0.2%
British & Irish
0.5%
Broadly Northwestern European
0.1%
Ashkenazi Jewish
1.0%
Broadly European
0.3%
East Asian & Native American

East Asian
0.2%
Mongolian
0.1%
Broadly East Asian
< 0.1%
Unassigned


_____________________-
99.9%
European

Southern European
88.0%
Balkan
1.8%
Italian
6.7%
Broadly Southern European

Northwestern European
0.4%
Broadly Northwestern European
3.1%
Broadly European
0.1%
East Asian & Native American
0.1%
Broadly East Asian & Native American
< 0.1%
Unassigned

Twilight
06-05-17, 03:21
Iron Age British Celts and Anglo-Saxons were both tested (Hinxton genomes). Unfortunately we can't run their genomes on 23andMe to see what their admixtures would be.

Not a problem, I think geneticists from the documentary "Britain AD said that Anglo-Saxons were closest genetically to the modern Dutch populations; especially Flanders and the Dutch are descended from Belgae/Frankish to the south and Germania/Frankish to the north. I'm 100% mathematically improvising here but it appears that the Dutch are a Mixture of only Unknown European, Scandinavian, French/German and British/Irish Components. I think the Dutch might make a good proxy especially if R1b-U152 tribes/Alledged French/German component never made it past the Rhine before the Roman era. If not then French/German would be eliminated from the Jastorf Culture all together. Just a thought :).

mixednutsjr
11-05-17, 18:06
Can some one explain to me why my Broadly European is so high?

European 99.1%
Southern European 74.8%
Italian 30.9%
Balkan 23.6
Broadly Southern European 20.4%
North Western European 16.7%
French and German 3.8%
British and Irish 2%
Scandinavian 1.3%
Broadly Northwest European 9.7%
Eastern European 2.4%
Ashkenazi Jew .01%
Broadly European 4.8%
Middle Eastern and North African .8%
Unassigned .02%

Twilight
11-05-17, 19:36
Can some one explain to me why my Broadly European is so high?

European 99.1%
Southern European 74.8%
Italian 30.9%
Balkan 23.6
Broadly Southern European 20.4%
North Western European 16.7%
French and German 3.8%
British and Irish 2%
Scandinavian 1.3%
Broadly Northwest European 9.7%
Eastern European 2.4%
Ashkenazi Jew .01%
Broadly European 4.8%
Middle Eastern and North African .8%
Unassigned .02%

I remember asking the same question on this blog earlier, apparently the "Broadly European" is most likely WHG/European Mesolithic genes.

Milando
11-05-17, 21:29
From Belgium Prov Luxembourg ( Ardenne). 6 gnrations, 64 Great parents, All coming from the same aerea between Bouillon-Arlon-Houffalyse
autosomial result from 23 and me
Northwestern European 87.7% French & German 35.9%
British & Irish 21.3%
Scandinavian 2.3%
Finnish 0.0%
Broadly Northwestern European 28.1%
Southern European 6.0%
Italian 2.3%
Sardinian 0.0%
Iberian 0.0%
Balkan 0.0%
Broadly Southern European 3.7%

Ashkenazi Jewish < 0.1%

Eastern European 0.0%

Broadly European 6.2%

Syky
13-05-17, 13:39
Can some one explain to me why my Broadly European is so high?

European 99.1%
Southern European 74.8%
Italian 30.9%
Balkan 23.6
Broadly Southern European 20.4%
North Western European 16.7%
French and German 3.8%
British and Irish 2%
Scandinavian 1.3%
Broadly Northwest European 9.7%
Eastern European 2.4%
Ashkenazi Jew .01%
Broadly European 4.8%
Middle Eastern and North African .8%
Unassigned .02%

Stay cool, my "Broadly European" is 20% ;)

clarbg
20-05-17, 16:45
European 98.1%

Northwestern European 96.2%

British & Irish 71.6%

French & German 5.3%

Scandinavian 1.0%

Broadly Northwestern European 18.3%

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Southern European 0.7%

Iberian 0.3%

Broadly Southern European 0.5%

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Broadly European 1.2%


South Asian 1.7%

Broadly South Asian 1.7%


Middle Eastern & North African < 0.1%


North African < 0.1%


Unassigned < 0.1%

http://imgur.com/a/UWBBk?

Known ancestry: English (especially Southwest English ancestry), Scottish (with a bit of Orcadian), 1/32 German, Irish and supposedly some French on my dad's side, though I haven't verified that. I'm assuming there's probably some Welsh in there too.

BackToTheForests
21-05-17, 14:26
It genuinely bothers me that I have so much "broad" results, what does that signify? Also, I have heard that anything under a certain percentage is just noise, how do they decide what that is? I chuckled at the N.African and E.Asian, and unsure how I got French and German, perhaps it's a guess based on migration patterns and haplo? I'll compare both "conservative" and "speculative". Anyway, here it is:

Conservative:
Northwestern European: 52.8%
-British & Irish: 8.6%
-Broadly Northwestern European: 44.1%
Broadly European: 44.5%
Unassigned: 2.8%

Speculative:
Northwestern European: 90.4%
-British & Irish: 66.0%
-French & German: 1.9%
-Scandinavian: 1.7%
-Broadly Northwestern European: 20.8%
Eastern European: 4.8%
Southern European: 1.0%
-Broadly Southern European: 1.0%
Broadly European: 3.4%
Middle Eastern & North African: 0.2%
-North African: 0.2%
-Broadly M.Eastern & N.African <0.1%
East Asian & Native American: <0.1%
-East Asian: <0.1%
-Broadly East Asian: <0.1%
Unassigned: <0.1%

Twilight
21-05-17, 19:53
It genuinely bothers me that I have so much "broad" results, what does that signify? Also, I have heard that anything under a certain percentage is just noise, how do they decide what that is? I chuckled at the N.African and E.Asian, and unsure how I got French and German, perhaps it's a guess based on migration patterns and haplo? I'll compare both "conservative" and "speculative". Anyway, here it is:

Conservative:
Northwestern European: 52.8%
-British & Irish: 8.6%
-Broadly Northwestern European: 44.1%
Broadly European: 44.5%
Unassigned: 2.8%

Speculative:
Northwestern European: 90.4%
-British & Irish: 66.0%
-French & German: 1.9%
-Scandinavian: 1.7%
-Broadly Northwestern European: 20.8%
Eastern European: 4.8%
Southern European: 1.0%
-Broadly Southern European: 1.0%
Broadly European: 3.4%
Middle Eastern & North African: 0.2%
-North African: 0.2%
-Broadly M.Eastern & N.African <0.1%
East Asian & Native American: <0.1%
-East Asian: <0.1%
-Broadly East Asian: <0.1%
Unassigned: <0.1%
Not a problem, Northwest European is thought to have come from Germanic tribes. Scandinavians tend to have a lot of NW European also so NW European + Scandinavian= You Germanic ancestry. Since the Dutch tend to have 1/4 British/Irish there might be a little more Germanic ancestry in your British/Irish results; but we need to wait for 23andme to allow us to download IronAge Germanic DNA to their system to be absolutely sure.

For Broadly Southern European, we are not quite sure what that component. However speculatively speaking, I can't help but notice; just looking at the Broadly Southern European Map, you can see an exaggerated image of what was once the European Roman Empire; especially 2.5%+ so I have a hunch that Broadly Southern European might have had at least some involvement with the Roman Empire.



Broadly European is probably WHG ancestry that all the Europeans have in common, Broadly European tends to mimic the WHG map


Ultimately in a conservative standpoint, we are not sure entirely what we are looking at. I talked with customer service about the issue and apparently 23andme have been getting their samples from Europeans living in the vicinity for generations. We need to wait for 23andme to give us the green light to download Iron Age samples before we can know precisely what we are looking at. As for the North African/East Asian, I'm curious to see if you have any distant ancestors whom were North African themselves, if not it's probably just noise since the percentage is so low. :)

Here are the maps of the 23andme components.

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/autosomal_maps_dodecad.shtml#23andMe

BackToTheForests
21-05-17, 20:07
Not a problem, Northwest European is thought to have come from Germanic tribes. Scandinavians tend to have a lot of NW European also so NW European + Scandinavian= You Germanic ancestry. Since the Dutch tend to have 1/4 British/Irish there might be a little more Germanic ancestry in your British/Irish results; but we need to wait for 23andme to allow us to download IronAge Germanic DNA to their system to be absolutely sure.

For Broadly Southern European, we are not quite sure what that component. However speculatively speaking, I can't help but notice; just looking at the Broadly Southern European Map, you can see an exaggerated image of what was once the European Roman Empire; especially 2.5%+ so I have a hunch that Broadly Southern European might have had at least some involvement with the Roman Empire.



Broadly European is probably WHG ancestry that all the Europeans have in common, Broadly European tends to mimic the WHG map


Ultimately in a conservative standpoint, we are not sure entirely what we are looking at. I talked with customer service about the issue and apparently 23andme have been getting their samples from Europeans living in the vicinity for generations. We need to wait for 23andme to give us the green light to download Iron Age samples before we can know precisely what we are looking at. As for the North African/East Asian, I'm curious to see if you have any distant ancestors whom were North African themselves, if not it's probably just noise since the percentage is so low. :)

Very interesting, thank you for the clarification. My father always claimed English/Dutch/Lithuanian/Russian but we were unable to confirm (he lost many family members and hasn't much of a family history to speak of, does not even know surnames outside of his mother (Skanke)), all we had to go on was a Prussian Iron Cross war medal. As far as the E.Asian and N.African is concerned, approximately how long ago would that have been for such a small percentage? Unfortunately, we have little family history on my fathers side and I am assuming that this is where those would have come from. Thank you again, hopefully we can get that Iron Age DNA into the system!

BackToTheForests
22-05-17, 15:08
Thank you for the information, Twilight. My father always claimed English, Irish, Lithuanian, Russian, and Dutch descent but had little family history to go on (only his parents surnames, Sanders and Skanke, and an old Prussian war medal) so I was never able to investigate my ancestry on that side. My mother had a good deal of records, thankfully, and traced back to Ireland for many generations. For the E.Asian/N.African could be on my fathers side for all I know (how far back would you think for such a low percentage) but I feel that it may just be noise. Thank you again, the Iron Age dna project would be nice to see.

Twilight
22-05-17, 22:34
Thank you for the information, Twilight. My father always claimed English, Irish, Lithuanian, Russian, and Dutch descent but had little family history to go on (only his parents surnames, Sanders and Skanke, and an old Prussian war medal) so I was never able to investigate my ancestry on that side. My mother had a good deal of records, thankfully, and traced back to Ireland for many generations. For the E.Asian/N.African could be on my fathers side for all I know (how far back would you think for such a low percentage) but I feel that it may just be noise. Thank you again, the Iron Age dna project would be nice to see.


You're welcome. I actually never knew my Biological Dad due to a nasty divorce at the age of 2 so I totally understand ^_^. I got reintroduced to my Biological family back in Highschool; at least paper trail thanks to the genealogists at Seattle Public Library. If there any Genealogists at your Local Library or in other libraries in Pennsylvania, that might be a good start to trace your Paternal Ancestry.


As for the 0.2% North African, I believe 23andme has a new feature that determines how long ago your North African ancestor could have lived; you can find the answer in your Ancestry Composition. ;) Note that the 6th chromosome has had a bad reputation in the past for housing Noise DNA. If your North African DNA is in your Mtdna, it's likely that you simply had an ancestor whom had an Mtdna in common with the Berbers/Egyptians.

MsJ
10-06-17, 19:03
23 and me
European 99.1
NW European
British & Irish 57.9
French & German 8.1
Scandanavian 2.2
Finnish 0.5
Broadly NW European 26.6
Southern European
Broadly Southern European 2.5
Asheknzai <0.1
Broadly European 1.0
SSA 0.8
West African 0.8
East Asian 0.2
Unassigned ,0.1

DNA-Land.com
West Eurasian 100
NW Euro 46
SW Euro 25
NE Euro 23 (n Slavic 18 + Finnish 5.4)
S Central Euro 4.1
Ambiguous 1.1

And this is where I stopped putting my DNA into various calculators. Just too much unknown. I'm almost 95 percent NW Euro according to 23andme and 46 percent on DNA Land.

Angela
10-06-17, 19:35
In my experience some of the people who keep obsessing about trying every new calculator are, in many cases, just trying to confirm their "desire" or "bias" in terms of what they want to see.

davef
10-06-17, 19:52
In my experience some of the people who keep obsessing about trying every new calculator are, in many cases, just trying to confirm their "desire" or "bias" in terms of what they want to see.

Yeah some do, but the calculators that test for ancient ancestry (like various hunter-gatherer or farmer ancestries) are very interesting to me.

Then again:

Idiot at the computer: come on! Come on! Show me that WHG percentage!
Yeah!!!

srdceleva
10-06-17, 21:23
In my experience some of the people who keep obsessing about trying every new calculator are, in many cases, just trying to confirm their "desire" or "bias" in terms of what they want to see.
So what's your point :)

Angela
10-06-17, 21:58
So what's your point :)

I thought I was pretty clear. I guess not. :)

The thing for which these tests and calculators are best, imo, is for comparison with people of your area. In my case, for example, it was clear from the first 23andme test and the dienekes calculator that I fit exactly with the people of my two ancestral areas. In fact I plot almost exactly right in between Bergamo and TSI. When the sample from Piemonte(actually a border area between Liguria/Piemonte/Lombardia and Emilia) became available I plotted extremely close to that.

So, I'm exactly who I thought I was.

If, however, you come from a "mixed" background, as most Americans do, it becomes very muddy. Historical borders from the time of the nation states don't correspond to ancient "population" enclaves, who were themselves combinations of prior groups in different proportions.

If you're a mixed American who wants to know what percent German, English, Scottish, Irish, French Huguenot and Scandinavian you are, these tests can't do it. Either the populations are too similar, or they're going to be differently computed based on where centrums are located and named etc.

So, a strange situation has developed where if you know where all your ancestors lived for the last 500 years, the tests accurately confirm it. If you don't know, they won't tell you with any great degree of accuracy.

Now, as Davef said, it's interesting to know what ancient populations contributed to that. How much EEF, WHG, CHG etc. How close am I to MN people, or steppe people, or, if the genomes are ever released, Etruscans, or Romans, or the ancient Ligures or the Bell Beakers. I'm interested in knowing what ancient populations created us.

I'm not going to find that out from 23andme or any of these other companies.

I'll give you an example of what I mean by confirmation bias in all of this. A lot of Americans and Canadians have family traditions of having an American Indian ancestor and are very invested in the idea. I knew one of them. All the early tests he took showed no such ancestry. He took test after test after test until he found one that gave him a tiny percentage. Now, is it real or just noise, an artifact of that particular algorithm? I have no idea, but he's now happy. The other side of that story is that when people like this take a dna test it more often than not turns out that the "Indian" ancestor was actually a person with some SSA ancestry who said that in order to "pass" into white society.

Or, for another example, I knew a man obsessed with the idea that he was descended from the Norman aristocracy of England and was therefore convinced that he had Scandinavian ancestry. He took all these tests, looking for the one that would give him the highest possible "Scandinavian" score. Far be it from me to burst his bubble and tell him that I doubt that at this stage anyone, particularly anyone at a commercial testing site, can tell the difference between a Danish Viking and an Anglo-Saxon peasant farmer. For no doubt typically masculine reasons, he much preferred being descended from Danish Vikings.

See, different strokes for different folks. Maybe I'm doing the same thing coming at this from a totally different angle. My mother's family tree is littered with the surname of our local robber baron aristocrats. I nevertheless imbibed a hatred for them with my mother's milk, probably literally. :) (My birth area has always been a hot bed of anarchism, socialism, communism, and before that of any populist uprising that developed.) I have no desire to be connected to them. I much prefer to think I'm descended from retainers who took their surname. I also think that's objectively the most likely. On the other hand, I wouldn't take a test to see if we're related to the last descendants of that family even if they were willing to do it. See what I mean? :)

Ed. I always try to be completely honest. Upon reflection, I would probably take such a test if it were offered. Let's just say I hope it's never offered, and if it is and I took it, that my family wouldn't be related to them. :)

srdceleva
10-06-17, 23:31
I thought I was pretty clear. I guess not. :)

The thing for which these tests and calculators are best, imo, is for comparison with people of your area. In my case, for example, it was clear from the first 23andme test and the dienekes calculator that I fit exactly with the people of my two ancestral areas. In fact I plot almost exactly right in between Bergamo and TSI. When the sample from Piemonte(actually a border area between Liguria/Piemonte/Lombardia and Emilia) became available I plotted extremely close to that.

So, I'm exactly who I thought I was.

If, however, you come from a "mixed" background, as most Americans do, it becomes very muddy. Historical borders from the time of the nation states don't correspond to ancient "population" enclaves, who were themselves combinations of prior groups in different proportions.

If you're a mixed American who wants to know what percent German, English, Scottish, Irish, French Huguenot and Scandinavian you are, these tests can't do it. Either the populations are too similar, or they're going to be differently computed based on where centrums are located and named etc.

So, a strange situation has developed where if you know where all your ancestors lived for the last 500 years, the tests accurately confirm it. If you don't know, they won't tell you with any great degree of accuracy.

Now, as Davef said, it's interesting to know what ancient populations contributed to that. How much EEF, WHG, CHG etc. How close am I to MN people, or steppe people, or, if the genomes are ever released, Etruscans, or Romans, or the ancient Ligures or the Bell Beakers. I'm interested in knowing what ancient populations created us.

I'm not going to find that out from 23andme or any of these other companies.

I'll give you an example of what I mean by confirmation bias in all of this. A lot of Americans and Canadians have family traditions of having an American Indian ancestor and are very invested in the idea. I knew one of them. All the early tests he took showed no such ancestry. He took test after test after test until he found one that gave him a tiny percentage. Now, is it real or just noise, an artifact of that particular algorithm? I have no idea, but he's now happy. The other side of that story is that when people like this take a dna test it more often than not turns out that the "Indian" ancestor was actually a person with some SSA ancestry who said that in order to "pass" into white society.

Or, for another example, I knew a man obsessed with the idea that he was descended from the Norman aristocracy of England and was therefore convinced that he had Scandinavian ancestry. He took all these tests, looking for the one that would give him the highest possible "Scandinavian" score. Far be it from me to burst his bubble and tell him that I doubt that at this stage anyone, particularly anyone at a commercial testing site, can tell the difference between a Danish Viking and an Anglo-Saxon peasant farmer. For no doubt typically masculine reasons, he much preferred being descended from Danish Vikings.

See, different strokes for different folks. Maybe I'm doing the same thing coming at this from a totally different angle. My mother's family tree is littered with the surname of our local robber baron aristocrats. I nevertheless imbibed a hatred for them with my mother's milk, probably literally. :) (My birth area has always been a hot bed of anarchism, socialism, communism, and before that of any populist uprising that developed.) I have no desire to be connected to them. I much prefer to think I'm descended from retainers who took their surname. I also think that's objectively the most likely. On the other hand, I wouldn't take a test to see if we're related to the last descendants of that family even if they were willing to do it. See what I mean? :)
Yes I see what you mean and your right. I don't even pay much attention too percentages any more just how they compare to other people with similar backgrounds. Bias in the interpretation of results, whether from the person being tested or from others, is a massive problem in genetics and anthropology.

MsJ
11-06-17, 17:15
I thought I was pretty clear. I guess not. :)

The thing for which these tests and calculators are best, imo, is for comparison with people of your area. In my case, for example, it was clear from the first 23andme test and the dienekes calculator that I fit exactly with the people of my two ancestral areas. In fact I plot almost exactly right in between Bergamo and TSI. When the sample from Piemonte(actually a border area between Liguria/Piemonte/Lombardia and Emilia) became available I plotted extremely close to that.

So, I'm exactly who I thought I was.

If, however, you come from a "mixed" background, as most Americans do, it becomes very muddy. Historical borders from the time of the nation states don't correspond to ancient "population" enclaves, who were themselves combinations of prior groups in different proportions.

If you're a mixed American who wants to know what percent German, English, Scottish, Irish, French Huguenot and Scandinavian you are, these tests can't do it. Either the populations are too similar, or they're going to be differently computed based on where centrums are located and named etc.

So, a strange situation has developed where if you know where all your ancestors lived for the last 500 years, the tests accurately confirm it. If you don't know, they won't tell you with any great degree of accuracy.

Now, as Davef said, it's interesting to know what ancient populations contributed to that. How much EEF, WHG, CHG etc. How close am I to MN people, or steppe people, or, if the genomes are ever released, Etruscans, or Romans, or the ancient Ligures or the Bell Beakers. I'm interested in knowing what ancient populations created us.

I'm not going to find that out from 23andme or any of these other companies.

I'll give you an example of what I mean by confirmation bias in all of this. A lot of Americans and Canadians have family traditions of having an American Indian ancestor and are very invested in the idea. I knew one of them. All the early tests he took showed no such ancestry. He took test after test after test until he found one that gave him a tiny percentage. Now, is it real or just noise, an artifact of that particular algorithm? I have no idea, but he's now happy. The other side of that story is that when people like this take a dna test it more often than not turns out that the "Indian" ancestor was actually a person with some SSA ancestry who said that in order to "pass" into white society.

Or, for another example, I knew a man obsessed with the idea that he was descended from the Norman aristocracy of England and was therefore convinced that he had Scandinavian ancestry. He took all these tests, looking for the one that would give him the highest possible "Scandinavian" score. Far be it from me to burst his bubble and tell him that I doubt that at this stage anyone, particularly anyone at a commercial testing site, can tell the difference between a Danish Viking and an Anglo-Saxon peasant farmer. For no doubt typically masculine reasons, he much preferred being descended from Danish Vikings.

See, different strokes for different folks. Maybe I'm doing the same thing coming at this from a totally different angle. My mother's family tree is littered with the surname of our local robber baron aristocrats. I nevertheless imbibed a hatred for them with my mother's milk, probably literally. :) (My birth area has always been a hot bed of anarchism, socialism, communism, and before that of any populist uprising that developed.) I have no desire to be connected to them. I much prefer to think I'm descended from retainers who took their surname. I also think that's objectively the most likely. On the other hand, I wouldn't take a test to see if we're related to the last descendants of that family even if they were willing to do it. See what I mean? :)

Great explanation, Angela! It's very much how I feel. My unknown will stay unknown. My "Indian" could be anything from that SSA that does repeatedly show up to some other unknown. But almost none show me to be carrying American Indian DNA. But...I have physical characteristics that are common in Asiatic peoples like Mongolian spots and dry earwax and olive skin all from that supposed "Indian" ancestor. So for me, I wasn't really trying to find or verify Native American ancestry, but why I have those characteristics vs. what my DNA shows. So I latch onto those non NW Euro results. I really don't care what it is, I just know there is an answer. :) Now, that SSA ancestry was dismissed by my father because he is positive it is a mistake. He does have bias.

Angela
11-06-17, 17:51
Great explanation, Angela! It's very much how I feel. My unknown will stay unknown. My "Indian" could be anything from that SSA that does repeatedly show up to some other unknown. But almost none show me to be carrying American Indian DNA. But...I have physical characteristics that are common in Asiatic peoples like Mongolian spots and dry earwax and olive skin all from that supposed "Indian" ancestor. So for me, I wasn't really trying to find or verify Native American ancestry, but why I have those characteristics vs. what my DNA shows. So I latch onto those non NW Euro results. I really don't care what it is, I just know there is an answer. :) Now, that SSA ancestry was dismissed by my father because he is positive it is a mistake. He does have bias.

I hope no offense was taken. I was actually referring to a well known figure in the world of population genetics, among other personal examples from people I've known. I didn't know you also were investigating such a possibility.

It's natural for people to want to know more about their "roots". I totally understand it. It's just that I honestly don't think that these tests can give people the kind of specific answers they're seeking. They should also be wary of just seeking a test which will give them what they "want".

When something "unusual" for one's area shows up, if someone is interested in really finding out if a test result is accurate, often the best thing to do is to go the old fashioned genealogical research route. A close friend of mine, of mostly Irish plus other British Isles ancestry, with family which has been located in New England for hundreds of years, did have one of these "Indian" ancestor stories in the family. He took the 23andme test and got 2% SSA. He was surprised, and so was I, frankly. As recent papers have shown, this usually happens in families with close connections to the south. Well, he started doing research. It turns out that one of his ancestors was a slave who escaped to freedom on the Underground Railroad, braving great dangers. He was so fearful, after the Dred Scott decision, of being re-enslaved, that he went all the way to Canada where he became a blacksmith and had a long and prosperous life. At a certain point, one of his now mixed descendants, the "Indian" in the family, moved down to Vermont and into my friend's family tree. He's quite proud of this ancestor, as he should be, in my opinion.

MsJ
11-06-17, 18:15
@ Angela, no offense at all! I do love the paper trail as well. It just grows cold with poor whites and minorities in the 18th and 19th centuries. And one of my ancestors was adopted from a brothel..so..there's that. My DNA test actually gave me some insight on who shares my SSA ancestry and one of my distant cousins is the writer/star of Hamilton, Lin-Manuel Miranda. If you're up to an interesting take on interracial love stories google him. His white ancestor is the brother to my ancestor who may have married a former slave as well. I have a ton of new relatives in GEDMatch from that union. But that came from a "documented" purely European line where someone said they were white when they moved into the community and no one knew differently. My "Scottish" line. I loved finding that! Sorry to ramble, your input is very welcome and insightful as always.

ToBeOrNotToBe
31-07-17, 13:50
My results are:

ToBeOrNotToBe 100%

European 99.6%

Ashkenazi Jewish 97.5%

Eastern European 0.7%

Southern European 0.5%

(Broadly Southern European 0.5%)

Northwestern European 0.1%

(Broadly Northwestern European 0.1%)

Broadly European 0.8%

Middle Eastern & North African 0.3%

Middle Eastern 0.3%

Broadly Middle Eastern & North African < 0.1%

East Asian & Native American < 0.1%

Broadly East Asian & Native American < 0.1%

Unassigned < 0.1%

ToBeOrNotToBe
31-07-17, 13:54
Also, Maciamo, what would be SUPER interesting would be a map of Ashkenazi admixture, to see which areas received the most "marrying out"

blevins13
31-07-17, 15:26
The new 23andMe experience, starting in 2016 and replacing the old version of other customers the early months of 2017, has been a disappointment for many veteran users. One major let down is that it is no longer possible to search for people with whom to share by location or other profile fields unless these people appear in our DNA Relatives (which means that they must share at least one DNA segment). I thought it would be a good opportunity to share our results here. My aim is to compile a frequency table by country and region, so that people understand better how they compare with other individuals from the same region or from the rest of Europe.

Please only share your results if all your ancestors come from the same country! Kindly also mention your ancestral region(s) within that country so that results can be classify more accurately.

Dear Maciamo what is mean by Balkan DNA in 23 and me. Mine is as follows.

European
98.9%
Balkan
88.8%
Italian
3.6%
Iberian
0.4%
Broadly Southern European
5.1%
Broadly European
0.9%
Sub-Saharan African
0.9%
West African
0.9%
East Asian & Native American
0.1%
East Asian
0.1%
Broadly East Asian
0.1%
Middle Eastern & North African
< 0.1%
North African
< 0.1%
Broadly Middle Eastern & North African
< 0.1%
Unassigned
< 0.1%



Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89698)

NChSh
03-08-17, 17:54
European99.6%

Eastern European68.6%


Southern European18.6%

Balkan15.2%

Broadly Southern European3.4%


Northwestern European5.1%

French & German0.9%

British & Irish0.5%

Finnish0.1%

Broadly Northwestern European3.5%


Broadly European7.3%


Middle Eastern & North African0.3%

North African0.3%


East Asian & Native American< 0.1%

East Asian< 0.1%

Broadly East Asian< 0.1%


Broadly East Asian & Native American< 0.1%




Sub-Saharan African< 0.1%

Central & South African< 0.1%




Unassigned< 0.1%

JajarBingan
08-08-17, 22:17
My updated results:



Southern European
53.5%


Balkan
41.8%


Italian
0.3%


Broadly Southern European
11.4%


Eastern European
22.4%


Northwestern European
7.3%


French & German
1.7%


Finnish
0.2%


Broadly Northwestern European
5.3%


Ashkenazi Jewish

0.3%


Broadly European
14.7%


East Asian
1.6%


Yakut
0.8%


Broadly East Asian
0.8%


Broadly East Asian & Native American
0.2%

Jovialis
01-11-17, 19:16
https://i.imgur.com/fyTLOtI.png
I just received mine today :smile:

Angela
01-11-17, 19:32
https://i.imgur.com/fyTLOtI.png
I just received mine today :smile:

I've never, ever seen results like that for a southern Italian from 23andme. I've never seen anyone get 100% southern European, either.

I wonder if it has something to do with the V5 chip? Do you know any other southern Italians who have been tested using the V5 chip?

The "West Asian" percentages southern Italians usually get are also gone. Do you know if the algorithm was changed for the V5 chip, or the "centrum" or reference samples for "Italian"? I wonder if they moved it to southern Italy.

Oh, I think the 35% "Balkan" might make some sense, given that all your ancestry is from Puglia.

That's it, I'm going to "waste" the money and retest on the V5 and see how it compares.

Jovialis
01-11-17, 19:40
I've never, ever seen results like that for a southern Italian from 23andme. I've never seen anyone get 100% southern European, either.
I wonder if it has something to do with the V5 chip? Do you know any other southern Italians who have been tested using the V5 chip?
The "West Asian" percentages southern Italians usually get are also gone. Do you know if the algorithm was changed for the V5 chip, or the "centrum" or reference samples for "Italian"? I wonder if they moved it to southern Italy.
Oh, I think the 35% "Balkan" might make some sense, given that all your ancestry is from Puglia.
That's it, I'm going to "waste" the money and retest on the V5 and see how it compares.

I don't know, but I'm thinking about getting the DNA kit for my mother and father. They have a sale right now for $49 each, if you order more than one, which lasts until Thanksgiving.

It would be interesting to see how the older version and the new version compares.

My results were done super quick as well. It only reached the lab on Oct. 17th, and I received them on today.

Salento
01-11-17, 20:04
I've never, ever seen results like that for a southern Italian from 23andme. I've never seen anyone get 100% southern European, either.

I wonder if it has something to do with the V5 chip? Do you know any other southern Italians who have been tested using the V5 chip?

The "West Asian" percentages southern Italians usually get are also gone. Do you know if the algorithm was changed for the V5 chip, or the "centrum" or reference samples for "Italian"? I wonder if they moved it to southern Italy.

Oh, I think the 35% "Balkan" might make some sense, given that all your ancestry is from Puglia.

That's it, I'm going to "waste" the money and retest on the V5 and see how it compares.

This is from v4 Chip, also from Puglia:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171101/3968549be8df391b7133ae7199f96bf3.jpg

Jovialis
01-11-17, 20:13
This is from v4 Chip, also from Puglia:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171101/3968549be8df391b7133ae7199f96bf3.jpg
Salento, you should retake the test too to see how it compares. Not that I like telling people how to spend their money :)

Salento
01-11-17, 20:24
Salento, you should retake the test too to see how it compares. Not that I like telling people how to spend their money : )
I’m going to use your V5 chip as a reference. If a take the new Test it might be similar to Yours. [emoji2]

Salento
01-11-17, 20:35
I think that they replaced the MENA with higher Balkans %. Maybe.

davef
01-11-17, 20:52
I’m going to use your V5 chip as a reference. If a take the new Test it might be similar to Yours. [emoji2]

I also think you should come out like jovialis, are you from the same area?

Would be nice if results from this new version can be used for the new ancient calculator :(. Thats pretty much the only calculator I'm willing to try!

Jovialis
01-11-17, 20:53
I just e-mailed 23andme to help clarify how they are composing the results for the V5 chip.

Angela
01-11-17, 21:10
Come out? Like being from Southern Italy is like being a closet homosexual?

I've never known a Sicilian, for example, not to say he was a Sicilian. It's usually the first thing they tell you.

I don't know where you get some of this stuff.

Jovialis
01-11-17, 21:23
I also think you should come out like jovialis, are you from the same area?

Would be nice if results from this new version can be used for the new ancient calculator :(. Thats pretty much the only calculator I'm willing to try!

Where he's from is in his username.

davef
01-11-17, 21:55
I’m going to use your V5 chip as a reference. If a take the new Test it might be similar to Yours. [emoji2]

Come out? Like being from Southern Italy is like being a closet homosexual?
I've never known a Sicilian, for example, not to say he was a Sicilian. It's usually the first thing they tell you.
I don't know where you get some of this stuff.
That's not what I meant! I meant "come out" as in "score", I used it interchangeably with that word and wasn't in any way shape or form implying that being from southern Italy is like being a closet homosexual! What led you to this idea?

Salento
01-11-17, 22:00
Come out? Like being from Southern Italy is like being a closet homosexual?

I've never known a Sicilian, for example, not to say he was a Sicilian. It's usually the first thing they tell you.

I don't know where you get some of this stuff.

I think Davef was trying to say that if I take the V5 test my results would be kind of similar as Jovalis.

Angela
01-11-17, 22:03
That's not what I meant! I meant "come out" as in "score", I used it interchangeably with that word and wasn't in any way shape or form implying that being from southern Italy is like being a closet homosexual! What led you to this idea?

Davef, maybe you used the phrase inappropriately. That's fine, no problem, but you can't deny that's how that term is used. You know, as in Kevin Spacey "coming out" as a homosexual. Why he thinks it was news to anyone is a different story.

I would think that to elicit the information in which you were interested you'd just say, "Where did your ancestors in Italy come from?"

It made it sound as if it were something of which to be ashamed, or something which had previously been hidden. If that's not what you meant, again, fine.

Dibran
01-11-17, 22:11
Salento, you should retake the test too to see how it compares. Not that I like telling people how to spend their money :)

Would retaking as an Albanian make any difference? Or am I likely to get 94 plus Balkan as before?

davef
01-11-17, 23:24
I’m going to use your V5 chip as a reference. If a take the new Test it might be similar to Yours. [emoji2]


Davef, maybe you used the phrase inappropriately. That's fine, no problem, but you can't deny that's how that term is used. You know, as in Kevin Spacey "coming out" as a homosexual. Why he thinks it was news to anyone is a different story.

I would think that to elicit the information in which you were interested you'd just say, "Where did your ancestors in Italy come from?"

It made it sound as if it were something of which to be ashamed, or something which had previously been hidden. If that's not what you meant, again, fine.
Thanks, but I didn't use it inappropriately, take a look at 1.3:
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/come_out

Come out çan be used interchangeably with score.

And why would I have even bothered asking him to admit his southern Italian heritage to begin with? He has "Italian" listed as his ethnicity, he's posted test results consistant with being fully southern Italian, on top of his numerous posts about his heritage.

I'm not upset with you and i apologize in advance if I sound that way, I was just correcting your interpretation of my post ;)

Jovialis
02-11-17, 17:14
https://i.imgur.com/keOQ5iI.png

23andMe got back to me with an answer to our question.

@Dibran

Not sure, but right now they have a good sale on the dna kit ($49 for 2 or more)

Angela
02-11-17, 17:36
https://i.imgur.com/keOQ5iI.png

23andMe got back to me with an answer to our question.

@Dibran

Not sure, but right now they have a good sale on the dna kit ($49 for 2 or more)

Interesting. So it's not that they pruned their original set of snps, but that they are using a different set of ancestry snps, ones they think are more accurate, presumably.

I'm more interested than ever to see some more Italian samples analyzed by the v5 chip.

Dibran
02-11-17, 19:22
https://i.imgur.com/keOQ5iI.png

23andMe got back to me with an answer to our question.

@Dibran

Not sure, but right now they have a good sale on the dna kit ($49 for 2 or more)

Just checked with the user Kelmandasi results. Seems like for Albanians it makes little difference, Still scoring mostly Balkan. I got 94 Balkan, so I imagine it wont really tell me much. Though, if they had an upgrade option for a small fee, I would do it. To rebuy the kit? probably not. Unless its to test other family members.

Salento
02-11-17, 20:46
I also think you should come out like jovialis, are you from the same area?

Would be nice if results from this new version can be used for the new ancient calculator :(. Thats pretty much the only calculator I'm willing to try!

“I’m coming out” LOL
Gedmatch:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171102/132cec85a79af5c5e0c0d07f40eb6d9e.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171102/ef484d834cfc5921b952bc03a37f4272.png

Angela
02-11-17, 22:14
:laughing:
“I’m coming out” LOL
Gedmatch:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171102/132cec85a79af5c5e0c0d07f40eb6d9e.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171102/ef484d834cfc5921b952bc03a37f4272.png

I guess you're Southern Italian.:laughing:

Great fit, too, btw. Which calculator did you use, and is this with v4?

Salento
02-11-17, 22:47
:laughing:

I guess you're Southern Italian.:laughing:

Great fit, too, btw. Which calculator did you use, and is this with v4?
It’s V4 and and the Calculators are:
GedrosiaDNA: “Ancient Euroasia K6”
Eurogenes: “K36”

davef
02-11-17, 23:26
“I’m coming out” LOL
Gedmatch:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171102/132cec85a79af5c5e0c0d07f40eb6d9e.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171102/ef484d834cfc5921b952bc03a37f4272.png
i guess so :)! Very impressive fit!

AdeoF
02-11-17, 23:49
“I’m coming out” LOL
Gedmatch:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171102/132cec85a79af5c5e0c0d07f40eb6d9e.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171102/ef484d834cfc5921b952bc03a37f4272.png

May I ask, how do you get your Oracle in K36?? I really want to see mine aswell.

Salento
02-11-17, 23:57
The Top pic it’s the Oracle of Ancient Euroasia K6.
No Oracle for Eurogenes K36.

Jovialis
18-11-17, 05:49
I took advantage of the 50% discount, and bought all my immediate family members 23andme DNA kits as early Christmas gifts. For my mom, dad, and three siblings. I guess that takes care of my shopping.

O Neill
18-11-17, 13:18
91.7 % European
77.6 % North western European
32.1 % British & Irish
5.4 % French & German
4.6 % Scandinavian

8.4 % Southern European
1.1 % Iberian
7.3 % Broadly Southern European

5.5 % Broardly European
0.3 % Ashkenazi

4 % Sub-Saharan African
2 % Middle Eastern

backdrop12
25-11-17, 17:32
Ancestry Compisition :
Europe : 99.2%
------------------------------------------------
Northeast:
Great Britan + Irish - 18%
German and french - 14.4%
Scandinavian - 1.4%
Finnish- .5%
Broadly northwest - 25.3%

Eastern European - 23% ( says most recent )

Southern Europe - 2.5 percent
Balkan - 1.5 percent
General south- 1 percent

Broadly Europe - 14 percent
------------------------------------
Middle East + North African - .7%

Middle East - .6 percent

Broadly - .1%
----------------------------
East Asian + native american - <.1 percent

Overall : a european mutt

Jovialis
25-11-17, 17:38
Ancestry Compisition :
Europe : 99.2%
------------------------------------------------
Northeast:
Great Britan + Irish - 18%
German and french - 14.4%
Scandinavian - 1.4%
Finnish- .5%
Broadly northwest - 25.3%

Eastern European - 23% ( says most recent )

Southern Europe - 2.5 percent
Balkan - 1.5 percent
General south- 1 percent

Broadly Europe - 14 percent
------------------------------------
Middle East + North African - .7%

Middle East - .6 percent

Broadly - .1%
----------------------------
East Asian + native american - <.1 percent

Overall : a european mutt

What version of the test did you use, v5?

backdrop12
25-11-17, 17:52
I think its version 4 ?????. I took it October - December 2016 to January 2017 I see it being somewhat correct ( I do have colonial dutch which could account for the broad northwest).

Salento
26-11-17, 16:33
Salento, you should retake the test too to see how it compares. Not that I like telling people how to spend their money :)

Here it is, v5 (Ancestral Region: Italy / Puglia)
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171126/13ecd5fb1a26feb9bf7793d73932c2a6.jpg

Jovialis
26-11-17, 17:10
Here it is, v5 (Ancestral Region: Italy / Puglia)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171126/13ecd5fb1a26feb9bf7793d73932c2a6.jpg

Wow! They gave you a ton of "Balkan" too. No doubt from prehistoric, and ancient migrations. I guess that's the standard for South Italy, particularly Puglia.

Salento
26-11-17, 18:49
Wow! They gave you a ton of "Balkan" too. No doubt from prehistoric, and ancient migrations. I guess that's the standard for South Italy, particularly Puglia.

My Balkan Breakdown from LivingDna:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171126/05c8b21c71335cda6f28b4cf5235eab9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171126/b559664c4a366850b5fd8443731ec7fc.jpg
ps Those Ancestries in the UK got to be Romans.

Jovialis
27-11-17, 01:32
My Balkan Breakdown from LivingDna:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171126/05c8b21c71335cda6f28b4cf5235eab9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171126/b559664c4a366850b5fd8443731ec7fc.jpg
ps Those Ancestries in the UK got to be Romans.

That Calabrian, coastal Basilicata, and Salento region is probably very Greek-like within and of itself. Which probably contributes to the "Balkan" component. The "West Balkan" you're getting from living DNA could have to do with the Messapians, who were thought to be originally Illyrian.

https://i.imgur.com/LARzEDS.png

Salento
27-11-17, 03:35
That Calabrian, coastal Basilicata, and Salento region is probably very Greek-like within and of itself. Which probably contributes to the "Balkan" component. The "West Balkan" you're getting from living DNA could have to do with the Messapians, who were thought to be originally Illyrian.

https://i.imgur.com/LARzEDS.png

Balkans and Greece (Aegean) are distinct:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171127/8b0818969d7fae10f56e4d63ff8b2fc3.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171127/f459adf6b52cebe314921fe02e6c240f.jpg

Jovialis
27-11-17, 03:41
Balkans and Greece (Aegean) are distinct:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171127/8b0818969d7fae10f56e4d63ff8b2fc3.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171127/f459adf6b52cebe314921fe02e6c240f.jpg

I meant "balkans" as in how 23andme classifies it, which includes Greece, and Malta for some strange reason.

https://i.imgur.com/V8joq3N.png

At any rate, it's probably very old, and has some overlap with those populations from long ago.

Phil95
23-12-17, 23:37
Hello

I am French from Normandy on my mother side and from Normandy also from my father side with a grand grand father coming from Belgium.

My 23&me ancestry composition is the following :

European100%

Northwestern European95.3%

French & German45.4%

British & Irish24.6%

Broadly Northwestern European25.3%


Southern European3.6%

Iberian0.7%

Sardinian0.6%

Broadly Southern European2.3%


Broadly European1.2%

matadworf
27-01-18, 23:27
Here's mine. My ancestry is 100% Southern Peloponnesian (75% Messinia, 25% Arcadia).

European99.7%
Southern European 98.8 %

Balkan91.0%

Italian3.0%

Iberian1.1%

Broadly Southern European3.6%


Eastern European0.5%


Northwestern European0.3%

Broadly Northwestern European0.3%


Broadly European0.2%

Autrigon
04-02-18, 22:25
Southern European94.6%

Iberian90.5%

Italian0.6%

Broadly Southern European3.4%


Northwestern European4.3%

Broadly Northwestern European4.3%


Ashkenazi Jewish< 0.1%


Broadly European1.0%



Southern European94.6%

Iberian90.5%

Italian0.6%

Broadly Southern European3.4%


Northwestern European4.3%

Broadly Northwestern European4.3%


Ashkenazi Jewish< 0.1%


Broadly European1.0%




Roughly...I'm spanish and my parents were from Northern Castille

Salento
18-02-18, 00:39
23andme is updating AC with more details Locations. (Slowly rolling out a beta update)

Jovialis
18-02-18, 00:51
23andme is updating AC with more details Locations.

Did they specify when the changes will be made? I'm looking for an e-mail or something on the site, but couldn't find anything. Can you post a screen shot or link?

Salento
18-02-18, 00:59
Did they specify when the changes will be made? I'm looking for an e-mail or something on the site, but couldn't find anything. Can you post a screen shot or link?
From The Forum:

“Report Update: Ancestry Composition (Beta)

Forums Moderator
February 13 in Ancestry
Hi everyone,

As many of you noticed over the weekend, we are in fact beta testing a new version of the Ancestry Composition report.

We hope to tell you more about this exciting new update soon. For now, however, know that we are still working on optimizing the performance of the feature and fine tuning some of its details - so you may spot a few differences between the present version and the final one.

And for those wondering, yes, the new results do have a lot in common with an older feature by the name of Countries of Ancestry.

- Josie on behalf of the 23andMe Ancestry Team”

https://www.23andmeforums.com/discussion/14378/report-update-ancestry-composition-beta#latest

Mchenry123
22-02-18, 22:45
Northwestern European 96.1%
British & Irish 45.9%
Finish 7.3%
French & Irish 4.6%
Scandinavian 3.6%
Broadly Northwestern European 34.7%
Broadly Southern European 0.9%
Broadly European 2.8%

East Asian & Native American 0.02%

Vosges_Wexford
28-02-18, 23:11
In some cases, yes. But considering that we are still in the relatively early days of DNA science, some ethnicities get lost in the mix and people get confused as to what they are seeing. Take the French for example. A very diverse country, even back in antiquity. There are very few databases that have any significant number of French samples so often their results are skewed toward English, Dutch, Italian, Spanish, Scandinavian. This can lead to a lot of confused people wondering what is wrong with their results.

Rafe87
22-04-18, 11:05
Thank you for posting this! I've always wanted to see national results organized like that. I have made my own table of Portuguese and Spanish 23andme users, mostly "relatives". The results don't totally match what is in your table - for example, the Portuguese results tend to have more British&Irish than French&German, but that might be due to the fact that they have more in common with one another, being all related to me, thus being unrepresentative.

Rafe87
22-04-18, 11:06
The reply above was posted in response to Maciamo, to thank him for producing that table with the European 23andme results.

Tomenable
04-05-18, 00:54
Polish-American guy who was born in Lesko (South-Eastern Poland) posted his 23andMe:

Lesko: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesko

http://www.historycy.org/index.php?showtopic=166523&st=0





European
100.0%
Eastern European
82.8%
Southern European
10.2%
Balkan
9.3%
Broadly Southern European
0.9%
Northwestern European
3.3%
French & German
0.6%
Broadly Northwestern European
2.7%
Broadly European
3.7%
East Asian & Native American
< 0.1%
Broadly East Asian & Native American
< 0.1%
Unassigned
< 0.1%

Tomenable
04-05-18, 12:13
(...)

Have you considered creating a map of admixtures based on DNA Land, MyHeritage, Gencove, GenePlaza etc. tests? These tests are for free (autosomal transfer is for free) and they accept transfers of autosomal data from all major companies, therefore you will be able to get more samples per country. In Poland for example, most people test with FTDNA, 23andMe is not very popular. 23andMe is not so popular in Europe because they don't offer discounts or medical reports to Europeans, they treat Europeans as second-class customers.

Maciamo
05-05-18, 15:37
Have you considered creating a map of admixtures based on DNA Land, MyHeritage, Gencove, GenePlaza etc. tests? These tests are for free (autosomal transfer is for free) and they accept transfers of autosomal data from all major companies, therefore you will be able to get more samples per country. In Poland for example, most people test with FTDNA, 23andMe is not very popular. 23andMe is not so popular in Europe because they don't offer discounts or medical reports to Europeans, they treat Europeans as second-class customers.

That's a good idea, but I would need enough people from every country to share their data. I am going to start similar threads for other companies.

FabR1B
22-06-18, 17:12
Italian from Rimini (Center-North, 3 grandparents from Emilia-Romagna region, 1 grandpa from Sicily)

European 100%
Italian 89.6%
Iberian 2.5%
French & German 0.6%
Broadly Southern European 4.7%
Broadly Northwestern European 1.5%
Broadly European 1.1%t

yasdun888
27-06-18, 14:02
European
52.0%
Eastern European
48.8%
Southern European
10.2%
Balkan
69.3%
Broadly Southern European
0.8%
Northwestern European
4.3%
French & German
0.2%
Broadly Northwestern European
2.7%
Broadly European
3.6%
East Asian & Native American
98.0%
Broadly East Asian & Native American
97%
Unassigned
< 0.1%

Antonie
30-07-18, 20:12
Hi, I'm from The Netherlands. My first post on this forum.

I received my 23andMe test results this month (July 2018)

100% European
French & German 44,3%
British & Irish 26,6%
Scandinavian 10.5%
Broadly Northwestern European 18,3%
Broadly European 0,3%
Other 0,0%

davef
30-07-18, 23:01
European
52.0%
Eastern European
48.8%
Southern European
10.2%
Balkan
69.3%
Broadly Southern European
0.8%
Northwestern European
4.3%
French & German
0.2%
Broadly Northwestern European
2.7%
Broadly European
3.6%
East Asian & Native American
98.0%
Broadly East Asian & Native American
97%
Unassigned
< 0.1%
trying to figure out the mathematics behind this post...

Salento
31-07-18, 00:04
trying to figure out the mathematics behind this post...

What if the math is correct.
Obviously is the DNA of a GIANT.
imho :) LoL

christa
22-08-18, 14:56
My results are changed :
European 96.7%
Italian 71.7%
Balkan 16.6%
Ashkenazi Jewish 0.3%
Broadly Southern European 7.6%
Broadly European 0.5%
Western Asian & North African 2.7%
Western Asian 2.0%
Broadly Western Asian & North African 0.7%
East Asian & Native American 0.1%
Unassigned 0.6%

Joey37
22-08-18, 16:09
FabR1B, I am going to surmise that you got your 2.5% Iberian from your Sicilian grandpa. My great-grandfather's parents were born and raised in Sicily and I have 1.6% Iberian. Either the ancestral tribes of Sicily were related to the Iberians or the Catalans had some fun on the island when Aragon ruled it in the late Middle Ages. At any rate I am 88% Northwest European; 11% South European, and 1% Native American/Unassigned.

Stuvanè
22-08-18, 19:21
FabR1B, I am going to surmise that you got your 2.5% Iberian from your Sicilian grandpa. My great-grandfather's parents were born and raised in Sicily and I have 1.6% Iberian. Either the ancestral tribes of Sicily were related to the Iberians or the Catalans had some fun on the island when Aragon ruled it in the late Middle Ages. At any rate I am 88% Northwest European; 11% South European, and 1% Native American/Unassigned.

Joey37, it may be that in this specific case a Sicilian ancestor could be the most likely vector of the Iberian quota (his grandfather should test himself), as well as a friend of mine - half Sardinian and half Sicilian - has 2.5% of Iberian, but it doesn't always work so in Italy, and you can find some paradoxical situation.
I come from more or less the same areas of FabR1B, but I haven't any sicilian grandfather - that I know they are all local, at least up to all the great-great-grandparents - yet my autosomal of 23andme gives me back 6% of Iberian. Working with a little imagination at this point I could hypothesize the attendance in my family tree of some castilian / navarrians / aragonese military operating between Romagna and the Este Duchy in the early modern age (at the service of Pope Borgia and his sons?), or more recently some French Napoleonic soldier, perhaps from the Languedoc region.It is however a hypothesis that satisfies me only in part, as also in other areas of northern Italy this portion of Iberian tends to appear in a variable but not contemptible manner. A boy from the countryside just outside Piacenza, on the opposite side of the region has 4.2%; my genetic cousin traced with 23and me, originally from Bondeno near Ferrara and from Varese in upper Lombardy, is 3% Iberian.
I therefore think that this component, if it is not traceable in the more recent generations, can sometimes be attributed to more remote influences, perhaps attributable to pre-Roman populations (ancient Ligurian and /or Celtic-Ligurians tribes ...)

10387

Angela
22-08-18, 19:44
Joey37, it may be that in this specific case a Sicilian ancestor could be the most likely vector of the Iberian quota (his grandfather should test himself), as well as a friend of mine - half Sardinian and half Sicilian - has 2.5% of Iberian, but it doesn't always work so in Italy, and you can find some paradoxical situation.
I come from more or less the same areas of FabR1B, but I haven't any sicilian grandfather - that I know they are all local, at least up to all the great-great-grandparents - yet my autosomal of 23andme gives me back 6% of Iberian. Working with a little imagination at this point I could hypothesize the attendance in my family tree of some castilian / navarrians / aragonese military operating between Romagna and the Este Duchy in the early modern age (at the service of Pope Borgia and his sons?), or more recently some French Napoleonic soldier, perhaps from the Languedoc region.It is however a hypothesis that satisfies me only in part, as also in other areas of northern Italy this portion of Iberian tends to appear in a variable but not contemptible manner. A boy from the countryside just outside Piacenza, on the opposite side of the region has 4.2%; my genetic cousin traced with 23and me, originally from Bondeno near Ferrara and from Varese in upper Lombardy, is 3% Iberian.
I therefore think that this component, if it is not traceable in the more recent generations, can sometimes be attributed to more remote influences, perhaps attributable to pre-Roman populations (ancient Ligurian and /or Celtic-Ligurians tribes ...)

10387

I completely agree.

Fwiw, I also score Iberian in 23andme.

Well, I spoke too soon. :) It depends both on the version of 23andme, and updates.

I used to score 5.6% Iberian. That's now gone. It seems to have gone into French and German, which is now 10.3% from like .2%. Oddly, I also suddenly have Scandinavian for the first time, over 2%? Maybe it's Lombard? There were a lot of them around us. The British and Irish has gone down, and the broadly NW Europe is the same, about 8%. Broadly Southern European is way down. Odd.


Italian69.4%

Italy


French & German10.3%



Scandinavian1.8%



Sardinian0.2%



British & Irish0.1%



Broadly Southern European9.0%



Broadly Northwestern European7.7%



Broadly European1.4%



East Asian & Native American0.1%

Broadly Northern Asian & Native American0.1%




That's v4/v5, btw.

My v2/v3:


Italian58.9%

Italy


Iberian5.6%



British & Irish0.9%



French & German0.2%



Broadly Southern European22.7%



Broadly Northwestern European7.9%



Broadly European3.1%



East Asian & Native American0.2%

Tom95
23-08-18, 01:46
Eastern European 48.0%
Balkan 40.7%
Broadly Southern European 2.6%
Broadly Northwestern European 2.0%
Broadly European 6.3%

gandalf
16-09-18, 01:13
Hi , I am from France , Champagne region .
European 99.9%
French & German 36.2%
British & Irish 19.1%
Italian 6.2%
Iberian 2.0%
Balkan 0.8%
Finnish Less than 0.1%
Broadly Northwestern European 22.0%
Broadly Southern European 7.9%
Broadly European 5.6%
Western Asian & North African Less than 0.1%
Broadly Western Asian & North African Less than 0.1%
Unassigned Less than 0.1%
K1
More Neanderthal variants than 94% of customers
R-L51

paul333
18-09-18, 20:52
Received my 23 & Me Ancestry composition results today.

European 100%
British & Irish 80.7%
( United Kingdom )
French & German 2.0%
( Netherlands)
Scandinavian 0.8%
Finnish 0.3%
Iberian 0.2%
Broadly Northwestern European 14.4%
Broadly Southern European 1.0%
Broadly European 0.5%

The above is at 50% speculative.

At 90% conservative I had these results.

European 99.6%
British & Irish 24.1%
Broadly NorthWest European 66.5%
Broadly European 9.1%
unassigned, no data available. 0.4%


Also MTDNA confirmed as H1c3
and Y,DNA confirmed as H-P96 ( Y H2)

The report also shows under recent ancestors. I have a 100 % 'French & German', Great+Grandparent, but then highlights the 'Netherland's for this ancestor, by including 'Netherland's under 'France & Germany', and confirming 'Netherland's by a single dot in the category. indicating they were born within the periods 1750 and 1830( So were they French, German, or Dutch ? ).

The reports also indicate I also have a '100% Scandinavian', Great +Grandparent, born between 1720 and 1810. Along with a similar '100% Finnish', Great + Grandparent, born between 1690, and 1780, and a further '100% Iberian', Great + Grandparent, born around the same period, 1690 and 1780. So more unravelling to do, and are these recent ancestor reports reliable, ? as the area,s mentioned show very small percentages, such as,0.2%,0.3%,0.8%.

This recent ancestor information from 23 & Me,seems to support my LivingDNA, Y 'raw data', which indicated ancestral connections to both Finnland and Scandinavia, but I was suprised to find, that it is so recent, and as close as possibly only, 5-6 generations away.

Davidtab
15-10-18, 12:25
Hello, I am galician (northwestern iberian peninsule). My whole family was born in the same area in northwestern Galicia (As Mariñas). I know I have an ancestor (a napoleonic soldier in my mother´s side) from Central Europe in 1800.

My results are:

100% European.
69,1% Iberian.
8,9% French and German.
8,7% Broadly Southern European.
7,8% Broadly Northwestern European.
2,8% Italian.
1,5% British and Irish.
1,2% Broadly European.

My maternal lineage is H1
My paternal lineage is J-L283

I have a little more than 4% Neanderthal, but only 267 variants.

I found relatives in the USA, and yes, we have common ancestors, brothers or sisters of my great-granparents who emigrated to America.

I would like to know how to put my raw results somewhere and find out more.

Regards.

domogled
03-12-18, 18:57
Born in the west of Romania, the 23andme composition result (last updated October 25, 2018):

I 50% speculative:

European 99.9%

Balkan 86.1%
Eastern European 3.4%
Italian 3.3%
French & German 0.3%
Broadly Southern European 3.3%
Broadly Northwestern European 0.2%
Broadly European 3.3%

Melanesian 0.1%



Broadly Melanesian 0.1%



II 90% speculative:

European 96.3%

Balkan 56.1%
Italian 0.1%
Broadly European 29.5%
Broadly Southern European 10.6%


Unassigned 3.7%

JajarBingan
03-12-18, 22:32
Born in the west of Romania, the 23andme composition result (last updated October 25, 2018):

I 50% speculative:

European 99.9%

Balkan 86.1%
Eastern European 3.4%
Italian 3.3%
French & German 0.3%
Broadly Southern European 3.3%
Broadly Northwestern European 0.2%
Broadly European 3.3%

Melanesian 0.1%



Broadly Melanesian 0.1%



II 90% speculative:

European 96.3%

Balkan 56.1%
Italian 0.1%
Broadly European 29.5%
Broadly Southern European 10.6%


Unassigned 3.7%


That's a lot of Balkan.

domogled
04-12-18, 11:59
"That's a lot of Balkan."

:) you' re right, I have a surname which is very common in Croatia, Serbia and Montenegro, I suspect 7-8 generations ago a grand grand grand granfather moved from there.
But what amazed me is the melanesian 0.1% which is quite a thing knowing it is from Pacific... wtf :confused2:

Dibran
04-12-18, 19:12
"That's a lot of Balkan."

:) you' re right, I have a surname which is very common in Croatia, Serbia and Montenegro, I suspect 7-8 generations ago a grand grand grand granfather moved from there.
But what amazed me is the melanesian 0.1% which is quite a thing knowing it is from Pacific... wtf :confused2:



Any admixture lower than 2 percent(from what I have heard) is considered "noise". Most of my 1 percent admixtures fall off in other tests.

domogled
04-12-18, 22:58
Much obliged Dibran for sharing that, I suspected it might fall into the margin of error, which I believe is normal.
The 23andme test served well its purpose giving the information I need regarding the basics I expect the composition result to get more accurate once more test results will expand the database and the potential links thanks to newer added relatives.

JajarBingan
22-12-18, 16:17
My updated results with regional breakdown

https://i.imgur.com/sIg6L3d.png?1

https://i.imgur.com/H448me4.png?1

https://i.imgur.com/kbbfZPb.png?1

Sile
22-12-18, 23:25
my new 23andme v3 ancestry
https://i.postimg.cc/pdczm5F5/23andme-veneto-for-me.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
....
.
.
.
.
and my son...23andme v4
https://i.postimg.cc/NfKVFR2m/andy-veneto.jpg (https://postimg.cc/TpXQHL93)

Jovialis
23-12-18, 00:15
It says there was an update on December 20, 2018. Nevertheless, my results and interface have not changed. I don't see an option for provincial areas yet. I'm on V5.

Tutkun Arnaut
23-12-18, 02:55
I am Cappadocian Greek and I score 36% Italian. Of course no Roman ancestry in my case (and many other Anatolian Greeks who tend to score really high Italian).

Cypriots score also high Italian.

Sent from my Robin using Tapatalk
Greece also scores high. It seems Albania only is a hard core Balkan people. I am surprised by amount of Italian in Crete and Cyprus, Italians have done some serious damage in Greece! I have a book about Parthenon (written by an American professor) and he says one Parthenon was intact until 17 century, when an Italian general bombed it with artillery since there inside were Turks hiding. They must have stayed in Greece

Lenab
23-12-18, 03:58
my new 23andme v3 ancestry
https://i.postimg.cc/pdczm5F5/23andme-veneto-for-me.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
....
.
.
.
.
and my son...23andme v4
https://i.postimg.cc/NfKVFR2m/andy-veneto.jpg (https://postimg.cc/TpXQHL93)

Miano/Slovenia well, that's hardly a surprise.

Lenab
23-12-18, 04:00
Greece also scores high. It seems Albania only is a hard core Balkan people. I am surprised by amount of Italian in Crete and Cyprus, Italians have done some serious damage in Greece! I have a book about Parthenon (written by an American professor) and he says one Parthenon was intact until 17 century, when an Italian general bombed it with artillery since there inside were Turks hiding. They must have stayed in Greece
That would be general Latin not just Italian and Cypriots are racially South East European Greek and Balkan they are just more Near Eastern than mainland Greeks.

Salento
23-12-18, 04:16
Greece also scores high. It seems Albania only is a hard core Balkan people. I am surprised by amount of Italian in Crete and Cyprus, Italians have done some serious damage in Greece! I have a book about Parthenon (written by an American professor) and he says one Parthenon was intact until 17 century, when an Italian general bombed it with artillery since there inside were Turks hiding. They must have stayed in Greece
You went off topic.
Don’t omit important details.
Does your book say that the Parthenon was used as an Ottoman ammunition dump, and was mainly damage by the gunpowder and ammunition stored inside during the confrontation with the Venetians?

Sile
23-12-18, 09:03
Miano/Slovenia well, that's hardly a surprise.

I do not know what you mean
My son second choice ........is due because his mother's lines comes from east Veneto on the Livenza river which is the border of Veneto and Friuli

JajarBingan
23-12-18, 11:56
It says there was an update on December 20, 2018. Nevertheless, my results and interface have not changed. I don't see an option for provincial areas yet. I'm on V5.

If you go to "Settings" and opt into their beta program, then they will unlock this for you.

Stuvanè
23-12-18, 14:33
Just checked my beta version of 23andMe yesterday. It seems quite functional, although in a rather surprising way it assigns me a secondary calabrian origin of which I am not aware (at least for the last two centuries).
Without excluding a priori potential and unknown insertions of southern Italians in my family tree, I can't explain it from a historical point of view if not thinking of the signal of some more archaic common heritage (Greek-Byzantine?) of the Middle Ages, with ancestors whose descendants scattered in Italy, concentrating in Calabria and in ​​the Exarchate of Ravenna, and moving between the two regions. Or perhaps even to some even more ancient events, with the Romans sending settlers from the South towards the Po Valley or with Greek merchants / sailors who shuttled between Magna Graecia and the ancient Spina. Who knows?


Similar results, rather strange, have appeared to a man from the Lunigiana (Val di Magra) that I know on Facebook, whose ancestors for the last 3-4 centuries are all documented and coming from those territories or from the areas immediately surrounding (Tuscany, Liguria , Parma Apennines ....): among the first results of his origins appears Sicily, which doesn't make much sense. Even to a lady from Bellinzona-Locarno, with swiss-ticinese and french-german roots, Sicily appeared as one of its ancestral localities (!).
One of my other friends, half Italian from the Canton of Ticino and half of the Campania region from the province of Caserta, sees his share of southern Italy, but the Lombard-Ticinese component is completely hidden.


This tool is experimental, so I suspect that at present it works with good approximation only for individuals from areas with many samples tested and / or regions whose ethnic composition is extremely homogeneous, and Italy is too complex in this respect, nor tested in a capillary way.

10565

Jovialis
23-12-18, 14:38
If you go to "Settings" and opt into their beta program, then they will unlock this for you.

Thanks for that

Angela
23-12-18, 16:00
Just checked my beta version of 23andMe yesterday. It seems quite functional, although in a rather surprising way it assigns me a secondary calabrian origin of which I am not aware (at least for the last two centuries).
Without excluding a priori potential and unknown insertions of southern Italians in my family tree, I can't explain it from a historical point of view if not thinking of the signal of some more archaic common heritage (Greek-Byzantine?) of the Middle Ages, with ancestors whose descendants scattered in Italy, concentrating in Calabria and in ​​the Exarchate of Ravenna, and moving between the two regions. Or perhaps even to some even more ancient events, with the Romans sending settlers from the South towards the Po Valley or with Greek merchants / sailors who shuttled between Magna Graecia and the ancient Spina. Who knows?


Similar results, rather strange, have appeared to a man from the Lunigiana (Val di Magra) that I know on Facebook, whose ancestors for the last 3-4 centuries are all documented and coming from those territories or from the areas immediately surrounding (Tuscany, Liguria , Parma Apennines ....): among the first results of his origins appears Sicily, which doesn't make much sense. Even to a lady from Bellinzona-Locarno, with swiss-ticinese and french-german roots, Sicily appeared as one of its ancestral localities (!).
One of my other friends, half Italian from the Canton of Ticino and half of the Campania region from the province of Caserta, sees his share of southern Italy, but the Lombard-Ticinese component is completely hidden.


This tool is experimental, so I suspect that at present it works with good approximation only for individuals from areas with many samples tested and / or regions whose ethnic composition is extremely homogeneous, and Italy is too complex in this respect, nor tested in a capillary way.

10565

The attachment doesn't work, Stuvane. It's better to take a screenshot of things with imgur or something similar and then post it.

Here's mine. It gets the picture generally right, as I'm half Emilian (Parma). The other half is Lunigiana and La Spezia. They seem to put all of that in Toscana. I have no idea about the other traces. On my father's side (Parma) they've been up in the Apennines mixing with no one else since the 1400s. I do know that my maternal grandfather's surname, who is actually from La Spezia and towns a little west of there in the Ligurian Alps, shows up in Piemonte and Lazio, although I always thought the movement was north to south, as it's also in Lombardia and the Ticino.

The southern areas which show up are a mystery. I've also traced most of my mother's lines, especially her maternal side, back to the mid 1500s and don't see any of that ancestry. There are a few of my maternal grandfather's lines where I can only go back about 200 years, so it's either from that, or it's very old. The population of the southern Magra Valley was partially formed by the exodus of the people of Luni into the interior when it was finally destroyed. Perhaps some of it stems from that.

Nothing else "exotic" about me, however, unless French and German and a smidgen of American Indian counts. :)

https://i.imgur.com/pCoYDV4.png

For what it's worth, my only Italian "matches" are from Emilia, Liguria, Toscana, and Piemonte.

Stuvanè
23-12-18, 16:23
The attachment doesn't work, Stuvane. It's better to take a screenshot of things with imgur or something similar and then post it.

Here's mine. It gets the picture generally right, as I'm half Emilian (Parma). The other half is Lunigiana and La Spezia. They seem to put all of that in Toscana. I have no idea about the other traces. On my father's side (Parma) they've been up in the Apennines mixing with no one else since the 1400s. I do know that my maternal grandfather's surname, who is actually from La Spezia and towns a little west of there in the Ligurian Alps, shows up in Piemonte and Lazio, although I always thought the movement was north to south, as it's also in Lombardia and the Ticino.

The southern areas which show up are a mystery. I've also traced most of my mother's lines, especially her maternal side, back to the mid 1500s and don't see any of that ancestry. There are a few of my maternal grandfather's lines where I can only go back about 200 years, so it's either from that, or it's very old. The population of the southern Magra Valley was partially formed by the exodus of the people of Luni into the interior when it was finally destroyed. Perhaps some of it stems from that.

Nothing else "exotic" about me, however, unless French and German and a smidgen of American Indian counts. :)

https://i.imgur.com/pCoYDV4.png

For what it's worth, my only Italian "matches" are from Emilia, Liguria, Toscana, and Piemonte.

Angela, here my attachment (I hope you see):

https://imgur.com/a/ICZnIu6

Angela
23-12-18, 16:50
Angela, here my attachment (I hope you see):

https://imgur.com/a/ICZnIu6

Grazie, Stuvane. Yes, I see it.

I think these "southern" traces must be very old. Odd, though, that Calabria is at number 3 for both of us. It's not like it was a particularly sea-faring area. Perhaps, as you said, Roman colonies of soldiers from Calabria settled in Emilia/Romagna?

Regio X
23-12-18, 18:13
Here are mine.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e102/paleoven/Italia_zpsw5cslroa.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/paleoven/media/Italia_zpsw5cslroa.jpg.html)

I think France doesn't make sense, 'cause 1) No French in family; 2) My parents don't get this "likely match" in their results.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e102/paleoven/Francia_zpsjvwacrxq.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/paleoven/media/Francia_zpsjvwacrxq.jpg.html)

Stuvanè
23-12-18, 18:41
Grazie, Stuvane. Yes, I see it.

I think these "southern" traces must be very old. Odd, though, that Calabria is at number 3 for both of us. It's not like it was a particularly sea-faring area. Perhaps, as you said, Roman colonies of soldiers from Calabria settled in Emilia/Romagna?

Yes, Angela.
In other words, I'm wondering if something similar to Como occurred in Emilia: Julius Caesar, in 59 BC, refounded the Larian city (Novum Comum) with 5,000 settlers, of whom 500 were Greeks (even though they were not permanently in the area). It's a fact reported by Strabo, in his Geography, in the book dedicated to Italy (the Vth one). See here

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0239:book=5:chapter= 1&highlight=comum

Angela
23-12-18, 19:11
Yes, Angela.
In other words, I'm wondering if something similar to Como occurred in Emilia: Julius Caesar, in 59 BC, refounded the Larian city (Novum Comum) with 5,000 settlers, of whom 500 were Greeks (even though they were not permanently in the area). It's a fact reported by Strabo, in his Geography, in the book dedicated to Italy (the Vth one). See here

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0239:book=5:chapter= 1&highlight=comum

Very interesting.

I get over 10% French and German too. I think that's also very old. Probably it's excess "Gallic"/"Celtic" from the migrations around the middle of the first millennium BC. That's why they call the Ligurians Celt-Ligurians. (It stretches into the Apuan Alps.) There were migrations into the North too.

I think 23andme picks up things from around the classical era, but before that it's too homogenized.

I think my part Tuscan roots "increase" my "Italian" number. I have a feeling the "centrum" for Italy is around there.

Angela
23-12-18, 19:33
Very interesting.

I get over 10% French and German too. I think that's also very old. Probably it's excess "Gallic"/"Celtic" from the migrations around the middle of the first millennium BC. That's why they call the Ligurians Celt-Ligurians. (It stretches into the Apuan Alps.) There were migrations into the North too.

I think 23andme picks up things from around the classical era, but before that it's too homogenized.

I think my part Tuscan roots "increase" my "Italian" number. I have a feeling the "centrum" for Italy is around there.

I had forgotten the following:

"Near to the mountains above Luna is the city of Lucca. Some [of the people of this part of Italy] dwell in villages, nevertheless it is well populated, and furnishes the greater part of the military force, and of equites, of whom the senate is partly composed. "

There's also this, which I found interesting, in addition to all the towns of Emilia and Romagna mentioned:

"From Placentia to Ariminum there are 1300 stadia. About 36 miles above Placentia, towards the boundaries of the kingdom of Cottius, is the city of Ticinum,65 (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0239:book=5:chapter= 1&highlight=comum#note65) by which flows a river66 (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0239:book=5:chapter= 1&highlight=comum#note66) bearing the same name, which falls into the Po, while a little out of the route are Clastidium,67 (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0239:book=5:chapter= 1&highlight=comum#note67) Derthon,68 (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0239:book=5:chapter= 1&highlight=comum#note68) and Aquæ-Statiellæ.69 (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0239:book=5:chapter= 1&highlight=comum#note69)" The latter two are Tortona and Acqui, which we've discussed in reference to population isolates and the "Piemonte" sample, which is really in the Ligurian Alps, and speaks a Ligurian dialect.

Regio X
23-12-18, 20:14
Here are mine.Father
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e102/paleoven/Pare_zpsaxoqii6t.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/paleoven/media/Pare_zpsaxoqii6t.jpg.html)

Mother
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e102/paleoven/Mare_zps9wamlngl.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/paleoven/media/Mare_zps9wamlngl.jpg.html)

Regio X
23-12-18, 20:29
Father
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e102/paleoven/Pare_zpsaxoqii6t.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/paleoven/media/Pare_zpsaxoqii6t.jpg.html)Curiously, 23andMe hasn't detected Lombardy for my father, while his paternal grandmother was born in province of Mantova. His other 3 grandparents were from province of Treviso.

Tutkun Arnaut
23-12-18, 22:25
I don't know if it's real Italian ancestry in the Greek Aegean Islands. The 23andMe's Italian label peaks in Southern Italians, anywhere between Molise and Abruzzo, followed by Apulians. The 23andMe Italian category is based on Italian-Americans who are mostly of Southern Italian descent, and only secondarily and to some extent on Central Italians.

On 23andMe the Greek label is included in the Balkan category, and Balkan peaks in Montenegrins and Albanians, and in Greece there have been many migrations from Albania in recent centuries.

Autosomal map based on the data of 23andMe users of full Italian ancestry.




http://i.imgur.com/sRhb03A.png


This new stuff is confusing me related to Greece. Mainland Greeks and Island Greeks have huge genetic difference. Mainland Greeks are heavily Balkan, Island Greeks barely. Also Regio Calabria region and Eastern Sicily should have been heavily Balkan, since they are Greek settlements, instead they are slightly ,according to the map you have introduced for Italy,.Balkan element in Sicily is among the lowest in Italy. This tells me that Island people are the real Greeks, since their Balkan admixture is equal with that or Eastern Sicily and Calabria, and both are historically known as Greeks. So mainland Greek population is Greek in name only, but not in their blood, and calls "Macedonians are Greeks" looks quite absurd genetically. Or could be that the studies are still incomplete, and the picture on the map does not reflect the reality. We might have to weight some more time until the picture becomes definite. The history stands by Albanian claims that Western Italy was settled by some Illyrian tribes in the past. And indeed western part of Italy is heavily Balkan. If these maps stand Greeks need to be quiet about being Balkan people and not Anatolians.

Tutkun Arnaut
23-12-18, 22:27
This new stuff is confusing me related to Greece. Mainland Greeks and Island Greeks have huge genetic difference. Mainland Greeks are heavily Balkan, Island Greeks barely. Also Regio Calabria region and Eastern Sicily should have been heavily Balkan, since they are Greek settlements, instead they are slightly ,according to the map you have introduced for Italy,.Balkan element in Sicily is among the lowest in Italy. This tells me that Island people are the real Greeks, since their Balkan admixture is equal with that or Eastern Sicily and Calabria, and both are historically known as Greeks. So mainland Greek population is Greek in name only, but not in their blood, and calls "Macedonians are Greeks" looks quite absurd genetically. Or could be that the studies are still incomplete, and the picture on the map does not reflect the reality. We might have to weight some more time until the picture becomes definite. The history stands by Albanian claims that Western Italy was settled by some Illyrian tribes in the past. And indeed western part of Italy is heavily Balkan. If these maps stand Greeks need to be quiet about being Balkan people and not Anatolians.

Tutkun Arnaut
23-12-18, 22:43
I don't know if it's real Italian ancestry in the Greek Aegean Islands. The 23andMe's Italian label peaks in Southern Italians, anywhere between Molise and Abruzzo, followed by Apulians. The 23andMe Italian category is based on Italian-Americans who are mostly of Southern Italian descent, and only secondarily and to some extent on Central Italians.

On 23andMe the Greek label is included in the Balkan category, and Balkan peaks in Montenegrins and Albanians, and in Greece there have been many migrations from Albania in recent centuries.

Autosomal map based on the data of 23andMe users of full Italian ancestry.


http://i.imgur.com/sRhb03A.png Explain me something! Why Sicily and Calabria known Greeks settlements are low on Balkans? Does this mean that ancient Greeks were not Balkan people?
And wester Italy where there were Illyrian settlements is higher on Balkan as it should be? Also Island Greeks are equal with Sicily and Calabria with very little Balkan admixture? Does this mean the real Greeks are Island Greeks and mainland Greek in name only?