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Odysseus
05-04-17, 18:15
I was looking at the DNA of different Paleolithic cultures when I noticed that early Paleolithic males in Europe were from haplogroup C which I understand is mostly Aboriginal & widely found among Australian Aboriginals.


Up to 46% of Aboriginal Australian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_Australian) males carried either basal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basal_(phylogenetics)) C* (C-M130*), C1b2b* (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Haplogroup_C-M347&action=edit&redlink=1) (C-M347*) or C1b2b1 (C-M210), before contact (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_exploration_of_Australia) with and significant immigration by Europeans, according to a 2015 study by Nagle et al.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-luX2raFoUkQ/VHWppOG5-GI/AAAAAAAADRY/UkPnR29JABo/s1600/aboriginal_australians.jpg


And the late Paleolithic males in Europe were Cro-Magnons from haplogroup I which is widely found among Scandinavians.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/88/3c/48/883c485deedb9ef2e087d28b64672258.jpg

However both the Aboriginal & Cro-Magnon females shared the exact same haplogroups mainly (U2 ,U5 & U8) , so was there some sort of interbreeding between Cro-magnon males and Aboriginal females?


https://s15.postimg.org/l86f7i5ff/CROMAGNON.png

Megalophias
05-04-17, 18:41
Haplogroup C is not mostly Australian. Aborigines do have a lot of C, but so do Mongols, Alaskan Indians, Polynesians, and various other groups. Haplogroup C is found all over the world outside of Africa, and the kind found in Europe (C1a2) and that found in Australia (C1b2b) separated about 50 000 years ago, at a time when Cro-Magnon and Aboriginal types had not yet evolved. C1a and C1b are no more related than H and I are.

Odysseus
05-04-17, 19:16
Haplogroup C is not mostly Australian. Aborigines do have a lot of C, but so do Mongols, Alaskan Indians, Polynesians, and various other groups. Haplogroup C is found all over the world outside of Africa, and the kind found in Europe (C1a2) and that found in Australia (C1b1b) separated about 50 000 years ago, at a time when Cro-Magnon and Aboriginal types had not yet evolved. C1a and C1b are no more related than H and I are.

So were Cro-magnons also from haplogroup C ?

bicicleur
05-04-17, 19:48
So were Cro-magnons also from haplogroup C ?

Kostenki 14 was C1b1, aboriginees and papuans are C1b2, European Aurignacians were C1a2 and C1a1 are Japanese, 4 totally different tribes that split some 48000 years ago

Odysseus
05-04-17, 20:29
Kostenki 14 was C1b1, aboriginees and papuans are C1b2, European Aurignacians were C1a2 and C1a1 are Japanese, 4 totally different tribes that split some 48000 years ago

Thanks I never heard of the European Aurignacians before , Did Cro-magnon originally stem from the Aurignacians?

Also why did these two cultures shared the same mitochondrial DNA?

Fire Haired14
05-04-17, 20:42
Cro Magnon refers to a time period, not a genetics. It refers to humans who lived in Europe in the Paleolithic, not a genetically defined group of people. Of the people we call Cro Magnon were probably several genetically distinct groups.


So were Cro-magnons also from haplogroup C ?

C is a Eurasian paternal lineage. It isn't Asian or Australian or European. Just Eurasian. Some Paleolithic Europeans had C just because they were Eurasian not because they have a special connection to Australians.

Odysseus
06-04-17, 00:20
It does seem however that Haplogroup C1a2 (Aurignacians) had a distinctly different skeletal structure than the Haplogroup I (Cro-magnons) whether they were related or not my point was that both shared the same mitochondrial DNA (U2 ,U5 ,U8) which I found Interesting.

bicicleur
06-04-17, 14:51
Thanks I never heard of the European Aurignacians before , Did Cro-magnon originally stem from the Aurignacians?

Also why did these two cultures shared the same mitochondrial DNA?

Cro-magnon is not a welldefined culture or group.
The Aurignacians were the 1st culture of modern humans (not Neanderthal) that spread over large parts of Europe.
Earliest Aurignacian discovered is in Austria, along the Danube 43.5 ka, and it spread over large parts ca 40 ka.
http://www.aggsbach.de/2014/09/new-data-from-willendorf-and-the-beginning-of-the-classic-aurignacian-in-central-europe/
Ca 35 ka Gravettians appeared who gradually replaced Aurignacians.
Gravettians where haplogoup I.
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/32260-The-genetic-history-of-Ice-Age-Europe

Odysseus
06-04-17, 15:05
Cro-magnon is not a welldefined culture or group.
The Aurignacians were the 1st culture of modern humans (not Neanderthal) that spread over large parts of Europe.
Earliest Aurignacian discovered is in Austria, along the Danube 43.5 ka, and it spread over large parts ca 40 ka.
http://www.aggsbach.de/2014/09/new-data-from-willendorf-and-the-beginning-of-the-classic-aurignacian-in-central-europe/
Ca 35 ka Gravettians appeared who gradually replaced Aurignacians.
Gravettians where haplogoup I.
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/32260-The-genetic-history-of-Ice-Age-Europe

Thank you that explains a lot.

MOESAN
06-04-17, 23:35
first Paleo 'croma's were very distinct from the Y-I Upper Paleo (post LGM) period "croma"s - it's boring to read everytime the same confusion fed by some Net sites (here I don't reproach anything to people who repeat them because they are confident) -they were already distinct from the Gravettian ones spite spannings (crossings had taken place upon local drifts) and surveys about Pre- and Post- LGM pops show big enough differences in cranial but also in body structures and the authors thought climatic adaptation was not the principal factor in cause -
the more time passes the more complications arise and the assignation of some ancestral cultures to an Y-haplo becomes less and less reliable even more when we have 1 or 2 haplos tested! - (here I don't speak of more recent very well defined cultures, in fact subcultures where clannic system can re-unify the Y-haplo's within them) as at the Metals ages -