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Angela
05-04-17, 22:11
No cheating, now! :)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-H8LawIYAAGvp8.jpg

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/pc/FIRST+PICTURES+Janet+Montgomery+gets+character+S4_ tZOWrKPix.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/2e/f4/39/2ef439e0096dea1a3b8a88e390297217.jpg

http://celebritypictures.wiki/thumbs/2857778/2857778_66.jpeg

stevenarmstrong
06-04-17, 00:18
Could be so many different things. Albanian?

LABERIA
06-04-17, 00:22
Could be so many different things. Albanian?

In the last two photos maybe she can pass as Albanian

Sile
06-04-17, 04:01
looks maltese to me

Angela
06-04-17, 17:29
I'll wait a bit to see if there are any other guesses and then I'll reveal.

New Englander
06-04-17, 17:53
She looks Italian, or Greek to me.

davef
06-04-17, 19:31
She looks Italian, or Greek to me.

Same here

Angela
06-04-17, 21:19
I think she looks Italian or Greek too, but she's not. Her name is Janet Montgomery, and she's a Scottish actress. This one also surprised me. I guess it's good for her as an actress as it gives her a much wider range.

http://images.complex.com/complex/image/upload/t_article_image/fdd9u556xwbzqnm40fqn.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qAoOJhYsYdg/VilcLw-ogqI/AAAAAAAABH0/n1XHAEziLjc/s1600/36.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5f/Janet_Montgomery_April_2015.jpg/1200px-Janet_Montgomery_April_2015.jpg

davef
06-04-17, 21:44
Wow! Surprising...

MOESAN
06-04-17, 23:03
some 'long-barrows' heritage I think (just a bet, pictures are mistaking, we could think there were at least two different women on your beautiful pictures) - she could be Welsh too - these reduced 'croma' facial traits are found in the Mediterranean areas, but they never make a big % anywhere today -

MOESAN
06-04-17, 23:05
That said, have we her complete "pedigree" because as you know, actors actresses and politicians are the WORST representatives of their country a sa whole -

Angela
07-04-17, 00:48
That said, have we her complete "pedigree" because as you know, actors actresses and politicians are the WORST representatives of their country a sa whole -

All I could find is a comment where she says that her family are working class people. Usually, if there is any Jewish ancestry it says so in their bio. I was really expecting some admixture, but it doesn't seem to be there.

I do agree that among British actors/actresses there is indeed a higher percentage of darker, quasi-Mediterranean looking people than you would find in the population as a whole, for reasons that aren't obvious to me.

If by "reduced" croma traits you mean things like the jawline, I'm afraid the old time physical anthropologists were incorrect; they're particularly common from central Italy north, but it's also present in southerners, and among politicians, common people, as well as media people. I could post dozens if not hundreds of examples, including a picture of me, but these will do:

Monica Bertini: Parma
http://www.stadiotardini.it/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/foto-11.jpg


Federica Masolin
http://foto.sportal.it/2015-37/federica-masolin_1061984Libero1.jpg

Cristiana Buonamano
http://im4.freeforumzone.it/up/40/27/1483881201.jpg

Benedetta Mazza:
https://valtaroit.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/benedetta-mazza.jpg


Elena Raggi, mayor of Rome:
http://d19lga30codh7.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Raggi-e1466372057372.jpg

Another Italian politician...Laura Boldrini
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/77/Laura_Boldrini_crop.jpg/188px-Laura_Boldrini_crop.jpg

Nilde Lotti-First female head of the Italian Chamber of Deputies and an ex partisan
http://letteradonna.it/wp-content/blogs.dir/3037/files/2016/05/nilde-iotti.jpg

Our local partisans...for some reason that long Med oval seems to be more prevalent among the men than the women.
http://www.varesereport.it/vr/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/partigiane.jpg

Norma Parenti from our coast..
http://www.toscananovecento.it/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/norma_parenti_foto.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/30/Norma_Parenti_portrait.jpg/310px-Norma_Parenti_portrait.jpg

http://cagnan-gazzettadireggio.blogautore.repubblica.it/files/2015/04/info21.jpg

davef
07-04-17, 04:43
I'm impressed that there are people who are of 100 percent British Isles descent who look more Italian than myself, and I'm of Southern Italian descent (btw I'm not unaware of full blooded British people with Mediterranean phenotypes-I've seen my fair share of those who I would instantaneously classify as 1/4-100 percent Italian/Greek).

New Englander
07-04-17, 05:43
Well in the first picture, she is small med, and I dont think she shows much else, maybe some alpine. I would not think she has any type of Brunn, or Atlantid.

davef
07-04-17, 07:23
Yeah and Norma parenti and Benedetta Mazza look totally German or Swedish or something.

Pax Augusta
07-04-17, 14:35
Our local partisans...for some reason that long Med oval seems to be more prevalent among the men than the women.
http://www.varesereport.it/vr/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/partigiane.jpg

Norma Parenti from our coast..
http://www.toscananovecento.it/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/norma_parenti_foto.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/30/Norma_Parenti_portrait.jpg/310px-Norma_Parenti_portrait.jpg

Sexual dimorphism? :) But there were examples among Italian partisans of the opposite


Italian partisan Aligi Barducci (nome de guerre "Potente", "powerful") from Florence, he was the commander of partisan brigades operating in Tuscany. He was a former member of Italian army.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Aligi_Barducci_detto_Potente.jpghttp://www.storiadifirenze.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/aligi_barducci_01.jpg

Italian partisan Lanciotto Ballerini from Florence, he was commander of a partisan attack force operating in Tuscany ("Lupi Neri", the "black wolves"), and former member of Italian army.

https://s15.postimg.org/he6fx7by3/Lanciotto_Ballerini_in_divisa.jpghttps://www.antiwarsongs.org/img/upl/lanciotto_ballerini2.jpg


Italian partisan Angelo Scala (nome de guerre "Battista) from Genoa with Don Berto Ferrari (on the right). Angelo Scala was the commander of Brigata Balilla operating in Liguria (Genoan Appennines).

http://www.rinodistefano.com/images/don-berto/donberto1.jpg

Italian partisans of Brigata Garibaldi

http://www.slowfood.it/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Brigata-Garibaldi-Angelo-secondo-da-sinistra-in-alto.jpg

Three partisans from Selva Malvezzi, Molinella, Bologna

http://www.storiaememoriadibologna.it/imageserver/gallery_big/files/vecchio_archivio/seconda-guerra/0/03partigiani%20di%20Selva%20Malvezzi.jpg

Italian partisans in Piedmont

http://www.vvox.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/PARTIGIANI-facebook.jpg


Italian partisans in Codevigo (6° Compagnia, 28° Brigata Garibaldi), they were mostly from Alfonsine, Ravenna and Mezzano, same area

http://alfonsinemonamour.racine.ra.it/alfonsine/Alfonsine/Cafe%20d%20cai/partigiani.jpg

Source: http://alfonsinemonamour.racine.ra.it/alfonsine/Alfonsine/gruppo%20partigiani.htm



Yeah and Norma parenti and Benedetta Mazza look totally German or Swedish or something.


Norma Parenti was fully Tuscan (from Grosseto area, southern Tuscany, exactly from where Tuscan HGDP sample comes from), and Benedetta Mazza is Emilian. In Italy we don't usually associate these types with Germans or Swedish, because we're aware of full-blooded Italians with these phenotypes. Btw Norma Parenti Pratelli was raped, tortured and shot by German soldiers. She was 23.



I'm impressed that there are people who are of 100 percent British Isles descent who look more Italian than myself, and I'm of Southern Italian descent (btw I'm not unaware of full blooded British people with Mediterranean phenotypes-I've seen my fair share of those who I would instantaneously classify as 1/4-100 percent Italian/Greek).

Ok, but aren't you only half Southern Italian?

Anyway we Italians and Greeks aren't exactly the same, even if a good amount overlaps.

Angela
07-04-17, 16:18
I'm afraid we'll have to disagree, Pax. Of course there are square jawed Italian men. However, even looking at the group pictures you posted what I see is that the majority of them have long oval faces, not faces with squared off jaws. That's true even in my own family. I have that jaw, which I got from my mother. My father doesn't, nor do my uncles. I do think there is sexual dysmorphism at play here.

I do agree that Italians and Greeks certainly don't look identical. There are some people who could be either, however, just as there are people who are sort of pan-southern European. In Janet Montgomery's case, I think she could be Italian or Greek or maybe Balkan of some sort. She doesn't look Spanish to me.

Do you think she looks like Michela Quattrociocche?
http://www.football.co.uk/img/wags/michela_quattrociocche/michela_quattrociocche_0.jpg

Well, maybe not. Her features are much softer.
http://www.peoples.ru/art/cinema/actor/michela_quattrociocche/AHMLfWxKExPuP.jpeg

Maybe Maria Menounos is closer if she didn't lighten her hair so much? I think it's very unbecoming, btw. :)

http://vz.cnwimg.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/maria-menounos-wango-tango-2012-02.jpg

Pax Augusta
07-04-17, 16:38
I'm afraid we'll have to disagree, Pax. Of course there are square jawed Italian men. However, even looking at the group pictures you posted what I see is that the majority of them have long oval faces, not faces with squared off jaws. That's true even in my own family. I have that jaw, which I got from my mother. My father doesn't, nor do my uncles. I do think there is sexual dysmorphism at play here.

I didn't realize that we're specifically referring to squared off jaws. Sexual dimorphism, well also in my case, squared off jaws (and lighter types) are more present in the maternal side, but my mother inherited that from her paternal side, where these traits roughly seem equally distributed among males and females, but yes, likely a bit more common among the latter rather than the former.


I do agree that Italians and Greeks certainly don't look identical. There are some people who could be either, however, just as there are people who are sort of pan-southern European. In Janet Montgomery's case, I think she could be Italian or Greek or maybe Balkan of some sort. She doesn't look Spanish to me.

Do you think she looks like Michela Quattrociocche? Well, maybe not. Her features are much softer.

Not that much, yes definitely softer features.

oreo_cookie
07-04-17, 18:10
I immediately thought of Maria Menounos and would have said Greek.

Some Brits do look Mediterranean, even if people don't expect it. She is just one of them, is all.

srdceleva
13-04-17, 10:11
This is a hard one, in her second picture she could almost be Latina. There is something balkan about her she could be Greek but u have met some croatians who have a similar look but she's atypical. I haven't looked at the other posts I'll check and see if I'm right now :)

srdceleva
13-04-17, 10:15
No cheating, now! :)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-H8LawIYAAGvp8.jpg

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/pc/FIRST+PICTURES+Janet+Montgomery+gets+character+S4_ tZOWrKPix.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/2e/f4/39/2ef439e0096dea1a3b8a88e390297217.jpg

http://celebritypictures.wiki/thumbs/2857778/2857778_66.jpeg


[QUOTE=srdceleva;505996]This is a hard one, in her second picture she could almost be Latina. There is something balkan about her she could be Greek but u have met some croatians who have a similar look but she's atypical. I haven't looked at the other posts I'll check and see if I'm right now :)



And I was wrong....dang this one was hard though!

amenhotep
13-04-17, 19:03
eastern european hundred percent

Angela
13-04-17, 21:14
Well, only problem is that it's been revealed and she's British, Scottish to be exact.

Bollox79
12-08-17, 19:12
Sexual dimorphism? :) But there were examples among Italian partisans of the opposite


Italian partisan Aligi Barducci (nome de guerre "Potente", "powerful") from Florence, he was the commander of partisan brigades operating in Tuscany. He was a former member of Italian army.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Aligi_Barducci_detto_Potente.jpghttp://www.storiadifirenze.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/aligi_barducci_01.jpg

Italian partisan Lanciotto Ballerini from Florence, he was commander of a partisan attack force operating in Tuscany ("Lupi Neri", the "black wolves"), and former member of Italian army.

https://s15.postimg.org/he6fx7by3/Lanciotto_Ballerini_in_divisa.jpghttps://www.antiwarsongs.org/img/upl/lanciotto_ballerini2.jpg


Italian partisan Angelo Scala (nome de guerre "Battista) from Genoa with Don Berto Ferrari (on the right). Angelo Scala was the commander of Brigata Balilla operating in Liguria (Genoan Appennines).

http://www.rinodistefano.com/images/don-berto/donberto1.jpg

Italian partisans of Brigata Garibaldi

http://www.slowfood.it/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Brigata-Garibaldi-Angelo-secondo-da-sinistra-in-alto.jpg

Three partisans from Selva Malvezzi, Molinella, Bologna

http://www.storiaememoriadibologna.it/imageserver/gallery_big/files/vecchio_archivio/seconda-guerra/0/03partigiani%20di%20Selva%20Malvezzi.jpg

Italian partisans in Piedmont

http://www.vvox.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/PARTIGIANI-facebook.jpg


Italian partisans in Codevigo (6° Compagnia, 28° Brigata Garibaldi), they were mostly from Alfonsine, Ravenna and Mezzano, same area

http://alfonsinemonamour.racine.ra.it/alfonsine/Alfonsine/Cafe%20d%20cai/partigiani.jpg

Source: http://alfonsinemonamour.racine.ra.it/alfonsine/Alfonsine/gruppo%20partigiani.htm





Norma Parenti was fully Tuscan (from Grosseto area, southern Tuscany, exactly from where Tuscan HGDP sample comes from), and Benedetta Mazza is Emilian. In Italy we don't usually associate these types with Germans or Swedish, because we're aware of full-blooded Italians with these phenotypes. Btw Norma Parenti Pratelli was raped, tortured and shot by German soldiers. She was 23.




Ok, but aren't you only half Southern Italian?

Anyway we Italians and Greeks aren't exactly the same, even if a good amount overlaps.

Thanks for sharing those old photos... love the old photos... and respect to people who fought as partisans... that takes courage. My own Grandfather fought side by side with Filipino resistance fighters in the Pacific during WWII (after he finished his tour in Germany - he was tasked with sneaking behind enemy lines and cutting communications among other things)... though he was a member of the American Army. We have letters written to my Grandmother from the sister of the resistance fighter my Grandfather was close friends with... and I am sure my Grandfather had great respect for those resistance fighters. He must have saw things during the War that made him very sensitive to racism... because he would tolerate none of that according to my mother.

MOESAN
13-08-17, 00:29
At first people thought the square jaws were rather a masculine mark, just the opposite to what you say. But I red that a study concluded there was not a sexual dimorphism for this trait; but the more muscled males jaws (as a whole, exceptions exist as always) can soften the square angles of the inferior jaw, keeping only the strong breadth. this square profile of the jaw seems an heritage from 'cromagnoids' in Europe, and are found as well in South as in North, few or "less few" according to subregions.