IronSide
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- Y-DNA haplogroup
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How accurate is this map ?
- Thread starter IronSide
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Dinarid
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I've seen this one before, and am glad it was somewhat updated. I wouldn't take it too seriously, as I don't believe J1 was ever dominant in Finland (LOL).
This map seems to have been created solely based on the few ancient samples tested to date. There are two main problems with the approach though:
1) It doesn't take into account the fact that even Mesolithic and Neolithic populations were blends of Y-haplogroups. It's better to have one EEF population with E1b1b, G2a, H2, T1a, C1a2, etc. than to try to imagine a scenario in which some farming tribes were G2a while others were H2 or T1a or T1b. It's the same for Mesolithic populations. Why have C1a2 alone in Spain and I2a from France to Scandinavia? They were part of the same society since the late glacial period.
2) The map doesn't make any prediction about haplogroups that haven't been identified in ancient DNA tests yet. Therefore it is bound to have to be updated every time a new study appears. That is not the approach I took on Eupedia, simply because I wrote my haplogroup histories and made my migration maps before any ancient Y-DNA was available. I had predicted that haplogroups C, F and I would be found among Palaeolithic and Mesolithic Europeans, and they were. There were of course surprises, like the very rare H2 among early farmers, but the rest was predictable.
If this map represents 5000 BCE, then North Africa should be a blend of E1b1b, R1b-V88, T1a and G2. E1b1b was probably not dominant in the Maghreb, where the modern E-M81 only expanded in the last 2000 years.
J1 in Finland and Karelia is surely wrong. A J* sample was found, but it wasn't J1 nor J2. And in any case J* would have been a minor lineage compared to the dominant R1a-M17 and R1b-P297 among Mesolithic East Europeans, based on the little amount of CHG admixture among Mesolithic East Europeans.
I2b in Italy is purely conjectural. In fact, by 5000 BCE Neolithic farmers had already reached Italy and were predominantly G2a.
T1b is almost extinct and would not have been a dominant lineage in the Near East by 5000 BCE.
1) It doesn't take into account the fact that even Mesolithic and Neolithic populations were blends of Y-haplogroups. It's better to have one EEF population with E1b1b, G2a, H2, T1a, C1a2, etc. than to try to imagine a scenario in which some farming tribes were G2a while others were H2 or T1a or T1b. It's the same for Mesolithic populations. Why have C1a2 alone in Spain and I2a from France to Scandinavia? They were part of the same society since the late glacial period.
2) The map doesn't make any prediction about haplogroups that haven't been identified in ancient DNA tests yet. Therefore it is bound to have to be updated every time a new study appears. That is not the approach I took on Eupedia, simply because I wrote my haplogroup histories and made my migration maps before any ancient Y-DNA was available. I had predicted that haplogroups C, F and I would be found among Palaeolithic and Mesolithic Europeans, and they were. There were of course surprises, like the very rare H2 among early farmers, but the rest was predictable.
If this map represents 5000 BCE, then North Africa should be a blend of E1b1b, R1b-V88, T1a and G2. E1b1b was probably not dominant in the Maghreb, where the modern E-M81 only expanded in the last 2000 years.
J1 in Finland and Karelia is surely wrong. A J* sample was found, but it wasn't J1 nor J2. And in any case J* would have been a minor lineage compared to the dominant R1a-M17 and R1b-P297 among Mesolithic East Europeans, based on the little amount of CHG admixture among Mesolithic East Europeans.
I2b in Italy is purely conjectural. In fact, by 5000 BCE Neolithic farmers had already reached Italy and were predominantly G2a.
T1b is almost extinct and would not have been a dominant lineage in the Near East by 5000 BCE.
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