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AGuest
05-05-17, 22:13
Hello!

Were the Indus people the first carriers of L? Are the Rapa Nui of Easter Island carriers of L? If so, that could be an indication that the Rongorongo script is actually related to the Indus script.

How realistic is the idea that the Indus people were mostly R1a1, and when their civilization collapsed they wandered eastwards along the Ganges and brought R1a1 to what is today known as India?

LeBrok
06-05-17, 03:22
Very unrealistic to put R1a1 in Indus.

IronSide
06-05-17, 04:06
I don't know if anyone thought of this before, but aren't all basal subclades of L located in south Caucasus and Europe ? which might point to it's region of origin ? even L1a, the dominant form in south Asia, has been found in Calcolithic south Armenia, which supports the Caucasian origin. They migrated there with several branches of J2a and established the Indus Valley Civilisation.

And I hope I'm not stating the obvious, because when I first thought of this, I said WOAH !! INDUS VALLEY !!

http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/06/16/059311
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/ancient-human-dna_41837#7/40.572/46.154 (south Armenia, yellow dot)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_L-M20#Subclade_distribution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_L-M20#Ancient_DNA
https://yfull.com/tree/L/

Alpenjager
06-05-17, 16:02
8663
An useful map

AGuest
07-05-17, 16:00
even L1a, the dominant form in south Asia, has been found in Calcolithic south Armenia, which supports the Caucasian origin. They migrated there with several branches of J2a and established the Indus Valley Civilisation.

Oh, yes. That would explain a lot. It was speculated that the Sumerians, who traded with the Indus people and were culturally similar to them, came from the Caucasus. Another interesting point is that Burushaski, spoken by the Burusho of Pakistan, could be related to the Caucasian languages.

Maciamo
07-05-17, 18:13
My hypothesis is that the Pre-Harappan culture was established by an eastern branch of West Asian Neolithic farmers belonging to haplogroups L1, J2, R2 and perhaps also G, H2 and T1a.

The Bronze Age Indus Valley Civilisation (from 3300 BCE) may have been founded as an offshoot of the Kura-Araxes culture (from 3400 BCE), which would have brought new branches of G2a, J2a and T1a, but also some J1.

R1a and R1b would have come later with the Indo-Aryan migrations.

The Mongols would also have brought some R1a to Pakistan, in addition to C2a, Q1a and O.

There is also some Q1b2 in South Asia, which at present appears to be native to the region since the Late Palaeolithic (contrarily to Q1b1, which was native to Central Asia and hitched a ride south with the Indo-Iranians). H1 would also be native to South Asia.

IronSide
07-05-17, 18:43
My hypothesis is that the Pre-Harappan culture was established by an eastern branch of West Asian Neolithic farmers belonging to haplogroups L1, J2, R2 and perhaps also G, H2 and T1a.

The Bronze Age Indus Valley Civilisation (from 3300 BCE) may have been founded as an offshoot of the Kura-Araxes culture (from 3400 BCE), which would have brought new branches of G2a, J2a and T1a, but also some J1.

R1a and R1b would have come later with the Indo-Aryan migrations.

The Mongols would also have brought some R1a to Pakistan, in addition to C2a, Q1a and O.

There is also some Q1b2 in South Asia, which at present appears to be native to the region since the Late Palaeolithic (contrarily to Q1b1, which was native to Central Asia and hitched a ride south with the Indo-Iranians). H1 would also be native to South Asia.

So Palaeolithic people in India were H1 and basal subclades of F, very interesting. H wasn't affected by neolithic newcomers and bronze age invaders as much as I and G were in Europe, is there a reason for this pattern ?

anthropico
11-05-17, 01:15
(Sorry I wrote in the wrong topic and I can't delete this message)

anthropico
11-05-17, 13:40
Anyway it's interesting that Ladin speaking people in italian Tyrol have a relevant amount of L haplogroup.