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Adrian Stevenson
14-05-17, 14:20
Hi Everyone, this is my first post on the forum.

I have been interested in my genetic background for some years now and have done quite a bit of testing over the past three years. I have tested with Britain's DNA, FTDNA, Ancestry and Living DNA.

Last week I got my FTDNA Big Y results through which has given me a new terminal SNP of I S26361.

Cheers, Ade.

mwauthy
15-05-17, 14:54
Hi Ade. Welcome to the forum. I am also I-S26361 so we share a great....grandfather possibly around 3500 years ago most likely in Scandinavia. This subclade is found mostly in Scandinavia (its probable origin) and countries that experienced West Germanic migrations such as with the Saxons and Franks 2000 years later. As a result, it is found from Germany to Ireland. Mine is probably of Frankish origin being from Wallonia Belgium. To be honest though there is no way to ever know for sure because there were a lot of generations of males between the Nordic Bronze Age and my paternal paper trail to 1650 A.D. I've tested negative for a few subclades below I-S26361. I'm looking forward to the day when the subclade tree below I-S26361 is more extensive and informative.

I1a3_Young
15-05-17, 15:22
Congratulations on your results. Does the "Big Y" not take you all the way down the known trees, since there are known trees after S26361?

mwauthy
15-05-17, 16:38
I never purchased the Big Y package. When I transferred my Natgeo information to FTDNA I was assigned the haplogroup I-Z2040 which was more specific than Natgeo's classification of I-P30. Then I started guessing and buying snps and tested positive for I-Z382 and then I-S26361. The only subclade FTDNA has underneath is I-Y15002.

Apsurdistan
15-05-17, 17:31
So you're saying if you transfer your natgeo data to ftdna you'll get a deeper subclade result and is it free? How do you transfer natgeo cuz all I saw was tabs to upload 23andme or ancestry.
Also can you transfer natgeo to gedmatch?

mwauthy
15-05-17, 17:50
The cost was $39 to transfer from natgeo to ftdna. It's a bit confusing because I think ftdna runs the samples for natgeo but then natgeo does it's own interpretation. So my origin results for ftdna 1.0 were almost identical to my natgeo results in terms of ethnicity percentages. For my friend they were exactly the same. For my haplogroup though ftdna was more specific with the $39 transfer. Natgeo basically said I was I1 (I-P30) but ftdna said I was I-Z2040 which is under I1a2. Plus, ftdna gave me the option to explore my haplogroup deeper for additional charges. I'm not sure about gedmatch. I used 23andMe for that transfer.

Apsurdistan
15-05-17, 18:30
You mind giving a little instruction on how exactly you transfer the natgeo data to ftdna? Thanks

mwauthy
15-05-17, 18:44
I'm not sure if things have changed since they updated to 2.0. I registered with ftdna. Afterwards on my home screen there were various advertisements for various products they were selling including the natgeo transfer. So I clicked on the advertisement. I forget but o think I just needed to know my kit number with natgeo. Ftdna has quick customer service replies. Register and contact their support. I'm sure they won't mind walking you through the process.

mwauthy
15-05-17, 18:48
Since ftdna runs the samples for natgeo they already have your DNA sample. So it's not complicated to transfer the results. Good luck!

mwauthy
19-05-17, 15:04
Logged on to ftdna just for fun today and I see they automatically updated my y haplogroup from I-S26361 to I-FGC24357 which is also under I-S16414. So now I'm 2700 years before present. Furthermore, they included a bunch of new snps underneath I-FGC24357 which I can test. These new snps are not even listed on the yfull website. Interesting!

Apsurdistan
19-05-17, 16:49
The Helix Geno2 test isn't available yet for DNA data download so I can't transfer it to ftdna.

mwauthy
19-05-17, 17:23
The test I took with natgeo was called geno 2.0 next generation. On the ftdna home screen there is an area that says genographic transfer. If I could post pictures I would take a screenshot. Which natgeo test did you take?

Apsurdistan
19-05-17, 20:17
The test I took with natgeo was called geno 2.0 next generation. On the ftdna home screen there is an area that says genographic transfer. If I could post pictures I would take a screenshot. Which natgeo test did you take?

Me? I got the 2.0 next generation "Helix". On their website it says the Helix version isn't donwloadable yet and so it's not available from ftdna either. Might be a separate lab/company.

Adrian Stevenson
20-05-17, 19:38
Hi, and thanks for the welcome!

I too have been upgraded to I FCG24357. I have also got my Dad's Family finder results through today too.

Cheers, Ade.

Maciamo
21-05-17, 13:12
Logged on to ftdna just for fun today and I see they automatically updated my y haplogroup from I-S26361 to I-FGC24357 which is also under I-S16414. So now I'm 2700 years before present. Furthermore, they included a bunch of new snps underneath I-FGC24357 which I can test. These new snps are not even listed on the yfull website. Interesting!

That's interesting as FCG24357 has been found in Sardinia and the only Germanic tribes that settled there are the Vandals and the Goths. This same FCG24357 has a TMRCA of only 1750 years, and yet it is also found in Belgium and England. I wonder how that came about.

Adrian Stevenson
21-05-17, 13:16
It is certainly an interesting question.

I have submitted my data to Y Full.

Cheers, Ade.

mwauthy
21-05-17, 17:58
That's interesting as FCG24357 has been found in Sardinia and the only Germanic tribes that settled there are the Vandals and the Goths. This same FCG24357 has a TMRCA of only 1750 years, and yet it is also found in Belgium and England. I wonder how that came about.

I wonder if the Normans could of had some influence in all three of those areas?

I1a3_Young
22-05-17, 16:20
That's interesting as FCG24357 has been found in Sardinia and the only Germanic tribes that settled there are the Vandals and the Goths. This same FCG24357 has a TMRCA of only 1750 years, and yet it is also found in Belgium and England. I wonder how that came about.

How precise would the TMRCA 1750 be? 267 AD in England is before Roman fall and the Anglo/Saxon/Jute Migration, but after the "Belgae" tribes (as described by Julius Caesar) had already established a presence.

For it to be found in Belgium and England I would think it was present in the "Belgae" which found its way across the channel before Roman conquest. Some of those tribes were destroyed by the Romans so the remnants could have been pushed eastward and ended up proliferating in later Gothic tribes. For this to be true it would need a slightly more distant TMRCA...

Is Yfull.com the best source for determining the "source" of terminal SNPs like FCG24357? I'm new to this stuff and there's a plethora of info to digest.

mwauthy
22-05-17, 16:53
How precise would the TMRCA 1750 be? 267 AD in England is before Roman fall and the Anglo/Saxon/Jute Migration, but after the "Belgae" tribes (as described by Julius Caesar) had already established a presence.

For it to be found in Belgium and England I would think it was present in the "Belgae" which found its way across the channel before Roman conquest. Some of those tribes were destroyed by the Romans so the remnants could have been pushed eastward and ended up proliferating in later Gothic tribes. For this to be true it would need a slightly more distant TMRCA...

Is Yfull.com the best source for determining the "source" of terminal SNPs like FCG24357? I'm new to this stuff and there's a plethora of info to digest.

That's an interesting theory. Certain members of the Belgae including Ambiorix supposedly crossed the Rhine and went eastward after the Roman conquest. 1750 ybp is not an exact certainty. Maybe it was more like 2050 ybp?

mwauthy
25-05-17, 16:05
It is certainly an interesting question.

I have submitted my data to Y Full.

Cheers, Ade.

My surname Wauthy is a shortened variant of Wauthier which is a French version of Old High German Walthari. My direct paper ancestry goes to Wallonia Belgium to the 1650s. However, I have found evidence of Wauthy and Wauthier in Belgium to 1350s.
However, on geneanet.org I have found some Wauthy's in Derbyshire, England in the 1800s. I have no idea how they got there or if they fit in my family tree. What's interesting is that Derbyshire is the county right next to your county in England.
On a side note. None of the snps under FGC24357 are currently available for testing on FTDNA so I am unable to further clarify my haplogroup. I tested negative for YP5417 on yseq so my common paternal ancestor with the Sardinian sample is older than 350 years but younger than 1750 years. Maybe the Vandals cut through Belgium on the way to Sardinia with a few migrating to England? Maybe it's a Norman snp that migrated from Sicily to Sardinia? Interesting!

mwauthy
28-05-17, 03:41
The name Wautier was brought to England by the Normans and the name evolved into Walter. I found a Robert Wauthy who died in Yorkshire around 1587. There was always an unsubstantiated understanding in the history of my family that maybe we ended up in Wallonia Belgium to escape Catholic persecution in England and to avoid the English Civil War. It would make sense why my paper trail starts in 1663 in Belgium. It would corroborate a connection with Adrian Stevenson. The question is the connection with the Sardinian sample which I believe could be a Norman emigrant from Sicily. Plus, the Vandals would be more east Germanic where as Z58 is west Germanic.

Adrian Stevenson
28-05-17, 11:15
Thanks for your thoughts on this. We could certainly do with some more historical samples.

Cheers, Ade.

Adrian Stevenson
16-07-17, 11:54
I am now grouped at Y Full as I FGC24357* along with four other people.


Sent some PM's this morning. It will be interesting to see what part of the world they are from.


At present there is one person from Sweden and three from unknown locations.


There are also two people listed as being in Italy, but they are both I YP5416 so a bit further down the tree.


Cheers, Ade.

I1a3_Young
16-07-17, 15:10
Looking over Yfull, it seems like Z2041 is primarily a Scandinavian branch of Z58. It could have been present in the gothic tribes as well.

Z2041 formed 4300 years ago, continuing the rapid expansion and branching of the I1-DF29 that we see.

The other branches under Z59 look to be more western such as we might have found in Saxons.

mwauthy
16-07-17, 20:19
I am now grouped at Y Full as I FGC24357* along with four other people.


Sent some PM's this morning. It will be interesting to see what part of the world they are from.


At present there is one person from Sweden and three from unknown locations.


There are also two people listed as being in Italy, but they are both I YP5416 so a bit further down the tree.


Cheers, Ade.

FTDNA has 3 subclades listed under FGC24357. PH4362, BY19375, and S10350. What's odd is that FTDNA does not list YP5417 as a subclade of FGC24257 even though yfull and isogg do.

S10350 itself has 3 subclades on FTDNA. BY19383, BY19370, and FGC24342. BY19383 is found in coastal Danelaw England. FGC24342 is found in southwestern coastal Ireland and USA.

So FGC24357 has a TMRCA of 1750 ybp yet it and it's subclades are found in Ireland, England, Belgium, Sweden, and Italy. I wonder if the Swedish match could be a Wallonian immigrant from the 1600s. Maybe the English and Irish matches could be Flemish immigrants. Or maybe they are all connected to some Viking migrations. Way too early to tell I suppose.

Adrian Stevenson
30-07-17, 13:02
There are now just three of us listed as FGCI24357* under Y Full's new tree which came out today.

One from England (me) one from Sweden and one from Germany via Sweden to the USA.

The previous two listed people in the old tree have been pushed further down.

Cheers, Ade.

Battlesword
02-09-17, 12:05
Hi I have tested positive for S16414, with long family links to southern England, 500+ has anyone else tested positive for I-S16414

Battlesword
02-09-17, 12:16
Thank you for the quick reply Ade. As this subgroup grows I would like to try to track the migration routes in particular within the last 1500 years.

mwauthy
02-09-17, 18:31
Thank you for the quick reply Ade. As this subgroup grows I would like to try to track the migration routes in particular within the last 1500 years.

Welcome to the forum. You are just one level above myself and Ade. S16414 -> FGC24357. You can test for FGC24357 at FTDNA or Yseq. It's about 2000 years old so it probably has a Scandinavian origin where it got dispersed to various Germanic tribes. It's found in Sardinia from possibly the Vandals, in Wallonia Belgium from possibly the Franks, and in England from possibly the Saxons or Vikings. As more people get tested and more subclades downstream are discovered it will be interesting to see how closely related our paternal ancestors were and where exactly they split off in different directions.

Adrian Stevenson
03-09-17, 12:07
Welcome from me too.

I would agree with Mike's comments.

Cheers, Ade.

I1a3_Young
03-09-17, 23:42
Hi I have tested positive for S16414, with long family links to southern England, 500+ has anyone else tested positive for I-S16414

Welcome to the forum and the unofficial I1 brotherhood. Would you mind sharing the surname of your I1 individual? Have you looked at that surname on the FTDNA family project site?

Battlesword
04-09-17, 00:40
Thanks everyone for the very warm welcome. My paternal surname which traces back 500 years in Gloucetershire is Gregory, but throught FTDNA I appear to have strong links to the surname Holcombe. In the FTDNA Holcombe project most Holcombe's listed are classified I-S26361 mostly originating from Somerset. I have no Holcombes that I can identify in my family tree so the link is probably over 500 years unless one of my paternal line adopted the name Gregory or the classic none paternal event!!!

mwauthy
08-02-18, 04:28
A bunch of new subclades have been added underneath FGC24357 on the FTDNA tree. Unfortunately, they have not been added to YFULL yet so TMRCAs are lacking.

arend
09-02-18, 22:59
on FTDNA there a 4 subclades below fgc24357 mine appears to y 106825 i share this with one other person
as mentioned earlier my family can be traced back to ca 1480 at the coast of holland
they could be viking but my guess is still anglo saxon of course this is speculative

Adrian Stevenson
10-02-18, 13:22
Just had an update from FTDNA.

With this, it has pushing me a whole nine places further down the tree!

I am now I BY34648.

Cheers, Ade.

mwauthy
10-02-18, 18:41
on FTDNA there a 4 subclades below fgc24357 mine appears to y 106825 i share this with one other person
as mentioned earlier my family can be traced back to ca 1480 at the coast of holland
they could be viking but my guess is still anglo saxon of course this is speculative
Ade is Y106825–>BY34648 so he is the other person. He is from central England. A lot of archeologists are saying that the Germanic influences in England might be more Frisian than Anglo Saxon. This would make sense for your connection to Ade. It would also explain U106 peaking in Holland and the similarities between English and Frisian.

You should submit your data to YFULL. Ade already has his data with them. It would be interesting to see a TMRCA for Y106825.

Adrian Stevenson
11-02-18, 12:09
I would agree with all of this.

It would be great to have a TMRCA date.

Cheers, Ade.

Battlesword
24-04-18, 00:00
Just tested Big Y 500 so lets see where this takes us!!!

Kejomot
20-08-18, 22:18
Hi,
I have tested BigY-500 and my haplogroup is:
I-S16414 > FGC24354* [Y-full]
(I-S22349 [FTDNA])
One level above FGC24357
My known roots are Swedish, earliest known ancestor born 1779.
Is here anyone else who have tested positive for SNP FGC24354?
(= S22349 FTDNA)
Would be interesting if we could track the migration routes.

mwauthy
21-08-18, 06:13
Hi,
I have tested BigY-500 and my haplogroup is:
I-S16414 > FGC24354* [Y-full]
(I-S22349 [FTDNA])
One level above FGC24357
My known roots are Swedish, earliest known ancestor born 1779.
Is here anyone else who have tested positive for SNP FGC24354?
(= S22349 FTDNA)
Would be interesting if we could track the migration routes.

People who are positive for FGC24357 such as myself are also positive for FGC24354 which has a TMRCA of 2700 years almost certainly in Scandinavia. It’s age makes it difficult to track any specific migration route. You probably have 10-20 personal snps since FGC24354. As more people test and start to match more recent snps you have it will be easier to possibly track a specific migration in time as the TMRCA of your subclades shrink.

Kejomot
24-08-18, 23:25
You're right! Patiently waiting for more tests is what we can do. In the meantime, I have joined the ftdna project I - Z382 + YDNA subclade.

Which of the mutations that builds the line ” Z382 + S26361 + S16414 + FGC24354+” are assumed to have occurred in Scandinavia?

mwauthy
25-08-18, 01:02
You're right! Patiently waiting for more tests is what we can do. In the meantime, I have joined the ftdna project I - Z382 + YDNA subclade.

Which of the mutations that builds the line ” Z382 + S26361 + S16414 + FGC24354+” are assumed to have occurred in Scandinavia?

It’s my presumption that all of those snps originated in Scandinavia and probably Sweden since there are people still in Sweden with those SNPs today and a backwards migration is not that likely in my opinion. I even think FGC24357 which is my parent clade and right below FGC24354 probably originated in Scandinavia based on the reasons I mentioned above.

I just tested positive for S10350 at YSEQ today. This SNP is below FGC24357 and is currently found just in Britain, Ireland, and Belgium so possibly this SNP has a West Germanic origin. I belong to the Z382 project as well.