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Twilight
01-06-17, 02:00
Hello there. I was looking at R1b-Z2103 and I can't help but noticed that this subclade is located all over Western Europe/British Isles, ranging from 1-5%; 5-10% in Mediterranean Western Europe. However the description for Z1203 only talks about the Ancient Anatolians and Greeks.
I was wondering how R1b-Z2103 made it in Western Europe; as far as Galicia, Spain and Ireland. Did the Ancient Anatolians/Greeks leave Ydna in Western Europe or did R1b-Z2103 arrive via another civilization? Thanks :)
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplog...reco-Anatolian (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1b_Y-DNA.shtml#Greco-Anatolian)

A. Papadimitriou
01-06-17, 03:08
Hello there. I was looking at R1b-Z2103 and I can't help but noticed that this subclade is located all over Western Europe/British Isles, ranging from 1-5%; 5-10% in Mediterranean Western Europe. However the description for Z1203 only talks about the Ancient Anatolians and Greeks.
I was wondering how R1b-Z2103 made it in Western Europe; as far as Galicia, Spain and Ireland. Did the Ancient Anatolians/Greeks leave Ydna in Western Europe or did R1b-Z2103 arrive via another civilization? Thanks :)
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplog...reco-Anatolian (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1b_Y-DNA.shtml#Greco-Anatolian)

Maciamo chose to give it that label. I don't see anything particularly Greek about it. In Cyprus Z2105 is ~4%. If they didn't manage to spread it in Cyprus, why would anyone assume that it was spread elsewhere by Greeks?

Also R1b-Z2103 is found in Iron Age West Azerbajan region of Iran. The date is 971-832 calBCE.
Read that about the context https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teppe_Hasanlu
What would you think?

They had cultural contacts with Assyrians but there was "violent sacking and burning at around 800 BC, probably by the Urartians". If we follow the steppe model they should have spoken an IE language of some short, If you find it convincing it's ok but I don't believe the data show that.

Pax Augusta
01-06-17, 03:30
Maciamo chose to give it that label. I don't see anything particularly Greek about it. In Cyprus Z2105 is ~4%. If they didn't manage to spread it in Cyprus, why would anyone assume that it was spread elsewhere by Greeks?

Also R1b-Z2103 is found in Iron Age West Azerbajan region of Iran. The date is 971-832 calBCE.
Read that about the context https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teppe_Hasanlu
What would you think?

They had cultural contacts with Assyrians but there was "violent sacking and burning at around 800 BC, probably by the Urartians". If we follow the steppe model they should have spoken an IE language of some short, If you find it convincing it's ok but I don't believe the data show that.

Among the Yamnaya sample from Samara culture in the Volga region of Russia one is R1b-L23 (Z2103-, L51-) and five are R1b-Z2103.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samara_culture

While R1b-Z2105 has been found in Vuńćedol culture, Croatia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vu%C4%8Dedol_culture

MarkoZ
01-06-17, 20:30
I think we have a more refined knowledge of the distribution of R1b-Z2103 now, thanks to Balanovsky: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28281087 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed)

Doesn't look like there's much of it in Western Europe safe for a few very basal types in the Mediterranean discovered by commercial sites.

Pax Augusta
06-06-17, 02:46
I think we have a more refined knowledge of the distribution of R1b-Z2103 now, thanks to Balanovsky: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28281087 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed)

Doesn't look like there's much of it in Western Europe safe for a few very basal types in the Mediterranean discovered by commercial sites.

Indeed. Could R1b-Z2103 have been brought in the west by populations like the Mycenaeans?

Tiago
12-07-17, 19:45
Recently got my results, from Ftdna Z2103 pack:


R1b-M269>L23>Z2103>Z2106>Z2109>CTS7822>CTS9219>Y18959> Y5587>Y5586


Most common in Bulgaria, some samples in Spain and Germany. I am of portuguese origins... by the distribution I think Legio IV Macedonica... Can anyone help me figure this out?

Parafarne
24-09-17, 03:28
I think Z2103 in Western Europe came with arrival of R1b-P310 in 2400 BC but in Southern Europe Z2103 came from Southern Balkans when they settled Greece, Turkey too.

bicicleur
25-09-17, 11:59
Vucedol, in the Carpathian Basin was R1b-Z2103, probably Yamnaya-derived.
Some must have been picked by the central European BB people and spread all over Europe along with them.

blevins13
25-09-17, 16:44
I think Z2103 in Western Europe came with arrival of R1b-P310 in 2400 BC but in Southern Europe Z2103 came from Southern Balkans when they settled Greece, Turkey too.

Probably z2103 is the first wave of Yamna invasions......


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Parafarne
29-09-17, 07:03
Question: Where did Z2103 in Armenians, Iranians come from?

bicicleur
29-09-17, 07:19
Question: Where did Z2103 in Armenians, Iranians come from?

probably the same, Yamna
when Sintashta and Srubnaya exapnded, Yamna people left the steppe, east, west and south

jpz79
05-11-17, 00:00
Judging from the distribution and generous frequency of it's ancestral clade, L23*, Z2103, most likely originated on the Iranian plateau. journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0041252