PDA

View Full Version : The hate group of Italicroots 2



Azzurro
19-06-17, 05:13
I don't know if this is the right category, but I would like to call to attention the false information that the posters from Italicroots post, they are very racist, they show signs of extreme racism to people of the Iberian peninsula and people of Middle Eastern and North African ancestry, they deny any gene flow links with the Middle East post Copper Age with Italians and show downright hatred to many groups, I think they are fringe amongst Italian people and should be considered that way, some of their posters have spoken ill about many prominent researchers, I think its time that Eupedia stops accepting their posters unless they approach a more open manner and stop harassing those who actually have contributed to the various genetic topics. Its time people take a stand on these liars.

Angela
19-06-17, 07:47
I don't know if this is the right category, but I would like to call to attention the false information that the posters from Italicroots post, they are very racist, they show signs of extreme racism to people of the Iberian peninsula and people of Middle Eastern and North African ancestry, they deny any gene flow links with the Middle East post Copper Age with Italians and show downright hatred to many groups, I think they are fringe amongst Italian people and should be considered that way, some of their posters have spoken ill about many prominent researchers, I think its time that Eupedia stops accepting their posters unless they approach a more open manner and stop harassing those who actually have contributed to the various genetic topics. Its time people take a stand on these liars.

Anyone who posts racist material here, or who ****** other nationalities, or who distorts data, or lies about data is dealt with summarily by moderators, including me. That is the limit of my or any moderator's responsibility here. As a member of the forum I also point out without fail any claims that imo don't have scientific support.

In fact I'll point one out right now. We have no ancient dna from Italy post Copper Age, and that's only three samples from far northern Italy. Well, we also have a partial PCA with ancient Etruscans who plot pretty close to Iberians, Tuscans, and perhaps Bulgarians. That's it, so your blanket statement, just like any statement that there is no "foreign" dna input into Italy after the Copper Age, is just speculation. It doesn't matter to me one way or another. Whatever the combination and whenever it occurred, it's obviously the best possible outcome. :)

The question for me is why it matters so much to you. Yes, I could see where racist Italians might want to distance themselves from that ancestry as much as possible, just as Iberians were often desperate to place the North African and SSA in them, when they would even acknowledge it, back to the Mesolithic and the Neolithic, instead of to the Muslim occupation from which a good chunk of it stems. Why, however, does a diaspora Italian so desperately want not only himself but all Italiansto have very recent Middle Eastern dna and take it so personally that other people aren't convinced? Why not just try to be objective about it and wait for the ancient dna?

While we're at it, the biggest trollers of Italians here were the Spaniards from theapricity and Stormfront. It was even worse than some of the stuff in the Balkans disagreement thread. Probably, if I wanted my computer to explode from viruses, I could still find it going on there. The one Italian poster who tries that over and over again here by taking on new identifies is expeditiously banned each and every time once it's clear it's him. Other than that I don't see any Italian posters making any kind of objectionable comments.

So, cool your jets.

davef
19-06-17, 08:10
Yea, people should be allowed here regardless of where they are from. If you come across a dumb as a wall skinhead, report him/her/it. They don't last long, and are normally banned within a month (or a week...i tend to laugh when they are banned...reading their complaints against the moderators is equally hilarious). Doesn't matter what kind of supremacist someone is, whether it be a Nordic, Italian (north, central and south ;)), or East Asian etc supremacist; anyone who swings that way can take a hike and be an internet samurai someplace else where i won't be bothered with that kind of crap.

Azzurro
19-06-17, 15:45
Anyone who posts racist material here, or who ****** other nationalities, or who distorts data, or lies about data is dealt with summarily by moderators, including me. That is the limit of my or any moderator's responsibility here. As a member of the forum I also point out without fail any claims that imo don't have scientific support.

In fact I'll point one out right now. We have no ancient dna from Italy post Copper Age, and that's only three samples from far northern Italy. Well, we also have a partial PCA with ancient Etruscans who plot pretty close to Iberians, Tuscans, and perhaps Bulgarians. That's it, so your blanket statement, just like any statement that there is no "foreign" dna input into Italy after the Copper Age, is just speculation. It doesn't matter to me one way or another. Whatever the combination and whenever it occurred, it's obviously the best possible outcome. :)

The question for me is why it matters so much to you. Yes, I could see where racist Italians might want to distance themselves from that ancestry as much as possible, just as Iberians were often desperate to place the North African and SSA in them, when they would even acknowledge it, back to the Mesolithic and the Neolithic, instead of to the Muslim occupation from which a good chunk of it stems. Why, however, does a diaspora Italian so desperately want not only himself but all Italiansto have very recent Middle Eastern dna and take it so personally that other people aren't convinced? Why not just try to be objective about it and wait for the ancient dna?

While we're at it, the biggest trollers of Italians here were the Spaniards from theapricity and Stormfront. It was even worse than some of the stuff in the Balkans disagreement thread. Probably, if I wanted my computer to explode from viruses, I could still find it going on there. The one Italian poster who tries that over and over again here by taking on new identifies is expeditiously banned each and every time once it's clear it's him. Other than that I don't see any Italian posters making any kind of objectionable comments.

So, cool your jets.

Angela, we have had our disagreements in the past and who knows in the future, but I would like to say you are a good moderator and a good researcher, I personally cannot wait for the upcoming ancient dna papers.

It bothers me because its not right and they distort the truth, they comment on every forum that exists and project fallacies, I'll you an example this is the beginning of their comment on the Eurogenes blog "Completely useless study without any subclade analysis: haplogroups like J1 and J2 in Italy match the ones in the rest of Europe and are widely different from those of MENA regions." This statement is just not true infact the J2 in Italy matches closely with those of Cyprus and Lebanon, J1 as well but it is much less. This is just one thing, you go on their blog and you see the obvious hate these people have towards many groups, they even try to deny Greek input in Southern Italy and that no matter how anybody wants to look at it there was gene flow between Italy and Greece. I personally believe they are dishonest and thats to say any site similar to Italicroots be it Iberoroots or Hellenroots that has the same approach is just wrong and should be called out. The only thing worse than Italicroots that I have personally seen is Stormfront, that forum is 100% awful.

Angela
19-06-17, 17:18
Angela, we have had our disagreements in the past and who knows in the future, but I would like to say you are a good moderator and a good researcher, I personally cannot wait for the upcoming ancient dna papers.

It bothers me because its not right and they distort the truth, they comment on every forum that exists and project fallacies, I'll you an example this is the beginning of their comment on the Eurogenes blog "Completely useless study without any subclade analysis: haplogroups like J1 and J2 in Italy match the ones in the rest of Europe and are widely different from those of MENA regions." This statement is just not true infact the J2 in Italy matches closely with those of Cyprus and Lebanon, J1 as well but it is much less. This is just one thing, you go on their blog and you see the obvious hate these people have towards many groups, they even try to deny Greek input in Southern Italy and that no matter how anybody wants to look at it there was gene flow between Italy and Greece. I personally believe they are dishonest and thats to say any site similar to Italicroots be it Iberoroots or Hellenroots that has the same approach is just wrong and should be called out. The only thing worse than Italicroots that I have personally seen is Stormfront, that forum is 100% awful.


Well, I don't think the study is useless, but it is sort of pathetic that since they're using modern dna they don't have detailed sub-clades. I don't at all see anything untoward about that comment.

I don't frequent italicroots, as you apparently do, but from the few times I investigated it, all I saw basically was pictures of other groups, mostly, I would suspect, in response to your friend Sikeliot and his 100,000 plus posts and pictures from nightclubs. I did check out theapricity a few times too, once I figured out that the person I was debating on 23andme was him. It was infinitely worse.

Regardless, it's irrelevant. My concern is with this forum. There have been Italian posters I don't care for, but they are gone. The only consistent posters from Italy at the present are Pax and Hauteville, especially Pax. We often agree because, and here's a novel thought, they're actually from Italy, educated in Italy, and therefore know something about it, its history, and its archaeology, unlike the vast majority of people who post about Italy. Sometimes I disagree, but the important thing is that I find nothing objectionable in their posts whatsoever. Whether they frequent italicroots or not is also irrelevant.

Not everybody who disagrees with you is a racist.

Ok, I went to Eurogenes, which I normally don't do either. Anyway, I found the post. I don't see your problem at all. Other than the word useless there's nothing wrong with their post. They're quotes from the paper! In fact, maybe we should discuss them in that thread.

As for this topic, I'm done here.

Seanp
23-06-17, 11:39
That whole forum is a manifestation of insecurity and anger. "Iberian who look West Asian" - It's the same logic if a Lebanese would write "Post Italians who look like Saudi Arabian". I don't think there is a single Italian member there, because they seem to ***** themselves much more intensively than the target groups. I wouldn't be surprised if some Spanish ***** created that site and made some fake Italian accounts.

Twilight
23-06-17, 23:14
That whole forum is a manifestation of insecurity and anger. "Iberian who look West Asian" - It's the same logic if a Lebanese would write "Post Italians who look like Saudi Arabian". I don't think there is a single Italian member there, because they seem to ***** themselves much more intensively than the target groups. I wouldn't be surprised if some Spanish ***** created that site and made some fake Italian accounts.

You do realize that our Moderator; Angela is of Italian Heritage right? I even discovered just recently that I have an Italian line in my French Canadian family tree.

Angela
24-06-17, 00:03
Thank-you Twilight, but I don't take offense. It's not a forum I would ever join, for one thing, although it is indeed full of "actual" Italians. I don't even read it. My perspective on it is that I just don't see the point in reacting to racism and ******** by ******** to some extent yourself. It just lowers you to their level.

What I find amusing is that Seanp, a long time member and poster at numerous racist sites, is fulminating against that particular site. It's like he doesn't get that I and probably three-quarters of our members know who he is and what he's all about.

I'm sure you won't be bothered by him for long, though. He already has a lot of infractions, and like most people of his ilk he can't stop doing the things he does, so he'll get more.

Twilight
24-06-17, 01:12
Thank-you Twilight, but I don't take offense. It's not a forum I would ever join, for one thing, although it is indeed full of "actual" Italians. I don't even read it. My perspective on it is that I just don't see the point in reacting to racism and ******** by ******** to some extent yourself. It just lowers you to their level.

What I find amusing is that Seanp, a long time member and poster at numerous racist sites, is fulminating against that particular site. It's like he doesn't get that I and probably three-quarters of our members know who he is and what he's all about.

I'm sure you won't be bothered by him for long, though. He already has a lot of infractions, and like most people of his ilk he can't stop doing the things he does, so he'll get more.

You're most welcome, I'm not mad either ^_^. I do apologize if I sounded brawlful there. It might be because of my Hometown's "hippy" reputation whom I've been raised or something but I'm trying to understand the concept of racism, perhaps we can either talk about the social rules in the PMs in dealing in these kinds of situations; I noticed some important details got bleeped in your comment. I do admit, my questions in these situations have gotten me into some cyber brawls in the past on other websites; specifically in these times.

davef
24-06-17, 01:16
You're most welcome, I'm not mad either ^_^. I do apologize if I sounded brawlful there. It might be because of my Hometown's "hippy" reputation whom I've been raised but I'm trying to understand the concept of racism, perhaps we can either talk about the social rules in the PMs in dealing in these kinds of situations; I noticed some important details got bleeped in your comment. I do admit, my questions in these situations have gotten me into some cyber brawls in the past on other websites; specifically in these times.

The site programmatically censored out occurrences of the word "T-rolling" in her post but by the forum rules, it's still permissible to use (the word "T-roll" is also considered a cuss word according to how the site is designed).

Twilight
24-06-17, 02:03
The site programmatically censored out occurrences of the word "T-rolling" in her post but by the forum rules, it's still permissible to use (the word "T-roll" is also considered a cuss word according to how the site is designed).

Oh no no no no ^_^, never suspected such a thing although it's good to know that I looked T-rolled. I probably really need to work on my social skills when it comes to these things. Anyways, good luck Angela in dealing with the problem.

Angela
24-06-17, 02:05
You're most welcome, I'm not mad either ^_^. I do apologize if I sounded brawlful there. It might be because of my Hometown's "hippy" reputation whom I've been raised or something but I'm trying to understand the concept of racism, perhaps we can either talk about the social rules in the PMs in dealing in these kinds of situations; I noticed some important details got bleeped in your comment. I do admit, my questions in these situations have gotten me into some cyber brawls in the past on other websites; specifically in these times.

There's a certain kind of person, very prevalent on anthrofora, who "add up" how much "southern" ancestry European descent people have, i.e. EEF and CHG, although by labeling CHG a hg, they feel better about that part. Of course, there's little if any difference in how much Basal Eurasian they have compared to EEF, which as far as I can figure it out is the "offending" ancestry.

Therefore, there's a whole industry of people on anthrofora, and even on here in the form of Spanish "white supremacist" types for a while who spent hours a day posting that Italians have the most EEF or West Asian or Levantine or whatever is most offensive, and were the "darkest" Europeans. Some Italians responded by counting up how much North African Spaniards have and posting pictures supposedly showing the Spanish were "darker". Sikelliot alone must have posted pictures 30,000 or more times purporting to show that. That's why I find it amusing to see one member constantly coming to his defense. He's one of the biggest racists on the internet.

It's embarrassing even to write such a lame, ridiculous thing. I find it hard to believe myself that people even engage in this kind of stupidity. The state of their lives, never mind the undoubtedly worse state of their minds, must be horrific for them to need this kind of thinking.

Anyway, under these rules far northeast Europeans like Latvians or whomever are at the top of the rankings, and southern Europeans at the bottom. Do you get it? Under this rating system a person of British descent like Aaron, with 45-50% "southern" ancestry, is far superior to an Italian with 70 or 80 or 90%.

Along with this more "northern" ancestry goes "fairer" pigmentation, which is the holy grail, apparently, for reasons I don't at all understand. Of course, this is my standard for male beauty, for example, so it's a totally different perspective. :)

http://fr.web.img4.acsta.net/medias/nmedia/18/79/20/66/19493009.jpg



Unfortunately, WHG throughout western and central Europe and the Balkans are not cooperating: they stubbornly insist on being "darker" than the early farmers. That's why people still randomly come on to argue about it. All hope now rests with the SHG. :)

If you expect me to make sense of this or explain why they think this way, I can't do it. As was said over and over again in "Shakespeare in Love" (very Med looking those Fiennes boys), "It's a mystery". :)

Now, I'm off.

davef
24-06-17, 02:20
Oh no no no no ^_^, never suspected such a thing although it's good to know that I looked T-rolled. I probably really need to work on my social skills when it comes to these things. Anyways, good luck Angela in dealing with the problem.
That's ok. I knew you weren't suspecting that.

Twilight
24-06-17, 03:09
There's a certain kind of person, very prevalent on anthrofora, who "add up" how much "southern" ancestry European descent people have, i.e. EEF and CHG, although by labeling CHG a hg, they feel better about that part. Of course, there's little if any difference in how much Basal Eurasian they have compared to EEF, which as far as I can figure it out is the "offending" ancestry.

Therefore, there's a whole industry of people on anthrofora, and even on here in the form of Spanish "white supremacist" types for a while who spent hours a day posting that Italians have the most EEF or West Asian or Levantine or whatever is most offensive, and were the "darkest" Europeans. Some Italians responded by counting up how much North African Spaniards have and posting pictures supposedly showing the Spanish were "darker". Sikelliot alone must have posted pictures 30,000 or more times purporting to show that. That's why I find it amusing to see one member constantly coming to his defense. He's one of the biggest racists on the internet.

It's embarrassing even to write such a lame, ridiculous thing. I find it hard to believe myself that people even engage in this kind of stupidity. The state of their lives, never mind the undoubtedly worse state of their minds, must be horrific for them to need this kind of thinking.

Anyway, under these rules far northeast Europeans like Latvians or whomever are at the top of the rankings, and southern Europeans at the bottom. Do you get it? Under this rating system a person of British descent like Aaron, with 45-50% "southern" ancestry, is far superior to an Italian with 70 or 80 or 90%.

Along with this more "northern" ancestry goes "fairer" pigmentation, which is the holy grail, apparently, for reasons I don't at all understand. Of course, this is my standard for male beauty, for example, so it's a totally different perspective. :)

http://fr.web.img4.acsta.net/medias/nmedia/18/79/20/66/19493009.jpg



Unfortunately, WHG throughout western and central Europe and the Balkans are not cooperating: they stubbornly insist on being "darker" than the early farmers. That's why people still randomly come on to argue about it. All hope now rests with the SHG. :)

If you expect me to make sense of this or explain why they think this way, I can't do it. As was said over and over again in "Shakespeare in Love" (very Med looking those Fiennes boys), "It's a mystery". :)

Now, I'm off.

That's okay, I can look at "Shakespere in Love". Thank you for the recommendation. :)

Seanp
24-06-17, 19:13
Can you address the "Spanish white supremacists" a group of people everybody heard of on Anthroforums but never in real life. So far I've seen 1-2 forum members who over abused the "Northern European" heritage which in reality native Western European ancestry and just happens to be more frequent in Spain than the rest of the Mediterranean regions.
So far I've investigated this non existent flame war between some South European ethnic groups, I've came to the conclusion it's always those people who get the least amount of WHG but the highest percentages of ENF ancestry who make those hate threads on Spainards and made a whole forum just to show how "Northern looking" some Italian people are compared to Iberians.

I don't feel offended, because I'm just objectively see these people how they try to push their agendas on Anthro forums, but I'm glad these people are a small minority and the Internet is the only place they find some audience, nowhere else. We should ignore pseudo science and Far right content which is the main circle where those people came from.
Maybe accidentally I've posted some sources from those sites and I admit that was my fault to not consider the source as I'm not really familiar with their content, only they flooded many parts of the Internet and there literally no site where at least 1-2 far right member wouldn't be there and not trying to push their own agendas against minorities.

I've never looked down or targeted any ethnic groups for being X percent Neolithic or X percent North African, because in reality those people are as good and interesting as any other nationality or ethnicity. We just happen to share different nationality and cultural customs which makes us different under certain circumstances.

Twilight
24-06-17, 20:31
Can you address the "Spanish white supremacists" a group of people everybody heard of on Anthroforums but never in real life. So far I've seen 1-2 forum members who over abused the "Northern European" heritage which in reality native Western European ancestry and just happens to be more frequent in Spain than the rest of the Mediterranean regions.
So far I've investigated this non existent flame war between some South European ethnic groups, I've came to the conclusion it's always those people who get the least amount of WHG but the highest percentages of ENF ancestry who make those hate threads on Spainards and made a whole forum just to show how "Northern looking" some Italian people are compared to Iberians.

I don't feel offended, because I'm just objectively see these people how they try to push their agendas on Anthro forums, but I'm glad these people are a small minority and the Internet is the only place they find some audience, nowhere else. We should ignore pseudo science and Far right content which is the main circle where those people came from.
Maybe accidentally I've posted some sources from those sites and I admit that was my fault to not consider the source as I'm not really familiar with their content, only they flooded many parts of the Internet and there literally no site where at least 1-2 far right member wouldn't be there and not trying to push their own agendas against minorities.

I've never looked down or targeted any ethnic groups for being X percent Neolithic or X percent North African, because in reality those people are as good and interesting as any other nationality or ethnicity. We just happen to share different nationality and cultural customs which makes us different under certain circumstances.

I should probably stop talking now if the spamming is towards me o//.//o . I'll just leave this link here http://www.eupedia.com/genetics/

Angela
24-06-17, 20:49
Can you address the "Spanish white supremacists" a group of people everybody heard of on Anthroforums but never in real life. So far I've seen 1-2 forum members who over abused the "Northern European" heritage which in reality native Western European ancestry and just happens to be more frequent in Spain than the rest of the Mediterranean regions.
So far I've investigated this non existent flame war between some South European ethnic groups, I've came to the conclusion it's always those people who get the least amount of WHG but the highest percentages of ENF ancestry who make those hate threads on Spainards and made a whole forum just to show how "Northern looking" some Italian people are compared to Iberians.

I don't feel offended, because I'm just objectively see these people how they try to push their agendas on Anthro forums, but I'm glad these people are a small minority and the Internet is the only place they find some audience, nowhere else. We should ignore pseudo science and Far right content which is the main circle where those people came from.
Maybe accidentally I've posted some sources from those sites and I admit that was my fault to not consider the source as I'm not really familiar with their content, only they flooded many parts of the Internet and there literally no site where at least 1-2 far right member wouldn't be there and not trying to push their own agendas against minorities.

I've never looked down or targeted any ethnic groups for being X percent Neolithic or X percent North African, because in reality those people are as good and interesting as any other nationality or ethnicity. We just happen to share different nationality and cultural customs which makes us different under certain circumstances.

I'm not going to disseminate racist content under the guise of denying it. You're spamming. If you want to pollute your brain with Spanish Nordicism, and their attacks on Italians just go to theapricity and google Italian or Italy or Italian phenotype. You can do the same here.

However, as to you, you've made your point. No more spamming.