Did the Knight Templars invent banking system?

Diomedes

Diomedes

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Did the Knights Templar invent banking system?

Back in the day, I recall myself watching a documentary about the Knights of the Temple (aka Templars). They mentioned that those people actually were the beginners of the banking system. I recall from history that the first bank was somewhere in Italy. Thus, I wonder how this whole story unravels.
 
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So far as I know, it's Italy. That's at least the majority opinion.

See:

"Many histories position the crucial historical development of a banking system to medieval and Renaissance Italy and particularly the affluent cities of Florence, Venice and Genoa. The Bardi and Peruzzi Families dominated banking in 14th century Florence, establishing branches in many other parts of Europe.[2] The most famous Italian bank was the Medicibank, established by Giovanni Medici in 1397.[3] The oldest bank still in existence is Banca Monte dei Paschi di Siena, headquartered in Siena, Italy, which has been operating continuously since 1472.[4]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_banking\\




"Florence, the cradle of capitalism", from The Economist:
http://www.economist.com/node/13484709

Others say Genova, and probably still others would say Venezia. You get the drift, anyway.

"If European banking was invented anywhere, it was probably in Genoa in the 12th century, spurred on by the revival of trade in the Mediterranean. That, at least, is the case convincingly put forward at a website devoted to the history of the bank of San Giorgio. The site was formally launched at the end of 2008 at the conclusion of a 25-year study of Genoa's early economic history in the voluminous and carefully preserved state archive. The prize possessions are documents from the 12th century describing financial instruments that are commonplace today.In this section

Reprints
The first recorded public bond is dated January 1150 when the municipality raised 400 lire by granting to investors the tax revenue raised from stallholders in the marketplace. The term was 29 years, and the loans were described as compere—or purchases—to evade the church's usury laws. In the 13th century tradable government bonds were issued in Genoa, paying 7% interest. In the 14th century the first sinking funds were organised in Genoa; and, 100 years later, the first lottery. Giuseppe Felloni, a Genovese historian and numismatist, has written a commentary on this impressive list of historical firsts in a 91-page pamphlet, “Genoa and the History of Finance: A Series of Firsts?” A fuller account and the pamphlet itself can be found on Mr Felloni's "
http://www.economist.com/node/12884971
 
^ nice summary. I heard that Monte dei Paschi had some problems and was bailed-out or incorporated in another bank. I ain't sure exactly.
 
A question: say these Italian families lent money to a famous king (like the one in England as it is described in the wiki). How did they force the king to give them the money back? Did they send the "faceless men" to the the job (just kidding here)?
 
Without reminding myself,I will say the Genoese traders which often were also Jews.Venice had similar economy.And the knight templars or "crusades" were kind of colonizers,perhaps operating together often targeting trading routes.This system still dominates today :D
 
One of the biggest business of medieval Europe was slave trade,which was targeting "pagans" and heretics at begining but sometimes poor were also selling their kids to slave markets.This slave trade was going from Europe to the orient,not much known about this as it is known for example about African black slaves.

When Balkans fall to Ottomans at beginning people were sold as cattle in Kandia,Crete to the orient,of Bulgarian,Serbian and Greek descent by this traders, see Venetian archives.

I'm sorry thought i do not like some of their businesses.

I am aware that all this has earlier history,and was found in later times but im not fan of it.
 
Diomedes said:
A question: say these Italian families lent money to a famous king (like the one in England as it is described in the wiki). How did they force the king to give them the money back? Did they send the "faceless men" to the the job (just kidding here)?
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Unfortunately not, for them.

They went bankrupt, or nearly. Spendthrift French and English and Spanish kings did that to Italian bankers often.

Loans to Edward IV of England were a huge problem for the Medici bank, and loans to Edward III for the Bardi.

" Its troubles were followed by the troubled London branch, which got into trouble for much the same reason the Bruges branch would—unwisely loaning large sums to secular rulers, a group notorious for their delinquencies (in this case, the Yorkist usurper Edward IV)."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medici_Bank#Failure_in_Lyons_and_London

There was nothing "unwise" about it, they had no choice if they wanted to continue operating in the country and didn't want provocateurs instigating riots against them in London, as they sometimes did anyway.

The book "Lending to the borrower from hell" is about Philip II of Spain. It details the travails of the banks in Genoa.

@Milan,
None of your posts are on topic. If you want to discuss European slavery, that needs its own thread.

There were Genovese bankers, and there were Jewish moneylenders. They weren't the same thing. Read the articles I cited.
 
Angela@ that's from where the said banks had some of their money,it's some of the things they does,whether we like it or not.

I might open such a thread of European slave trade if i dig as much information i need,or if i find a free time to lead such a thread but i doubt we all wanna listen about this or much less debate them,better to close our eyes in front our history.

sorry for going off topic and "disturbing" this thread.
 
Milan.M said:
Angela@ that's from where the said banks had some of their money,it's some of the things they does,whether we like it or not.

I might open such a thread of European slave trade if i dig as much information i need,or if i find a free time to lead such a thread but i doubt we all wanna listen about this or much less debate them,better to close our eyes in front our history.

sorry for going off topic and "disturbing" this thread.
Click to expand...

I have no idea what that means.
 
Angela said:
Unfortunately not, for them.

They went bankrupt, or nearly. Spendthrift French and English and Spanish kings did that to Italian bankers often.

Loans to Edward IV of England were a huge problem for the Medici bank, and loans to Edward III for the Bardi.

" Its troubles were followed by the troubled London branch, which got into trouble for much the same reason the Bruges branch would—unwisely loaning large sums to secular rulers, a group notorious for their delinquencies (in this case, the Yorkist usurper Edward IV)."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medici_Bank#Failure_in_Lyons_and_London

There was nothing "unwise" about it, they had no choice if they wanted to continue operating in the country and didn't want provocateurs instigating riots against them in London, as they sometimes did anyway.

The book "Lending to the borrower from hell" is about Philip II of Spain. It details the travails of the banks in Genoa.
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seems it was a nice bussiness as long as it stayed afloat, but better reserve a personal seat on the life boat
 
bicicleur said:
seems it was a nice bussiness as long as it stayed afloat, but better reserve a personal seat on the life boat
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Exactly so. :LOL:

The Medici became the richest family in Europe, buying themselves the Papacy and the throne of France twice (through daughters who became Queens of France), but they almost went bankrupt several times before the bank ultimately failed. I suppose by marrying into royalty they thought to insulate themselves a bit, but it didn't work out exactly as planned. Caterina should better have stayed at home. The politics and infighting in the French Court of her time were even worse than they were in Italy, or at least equally dangerous.

The Bardi weren't so lucky.

Capitalism was a really high stakes, high risk business in those days. No "bail outs", and no insurance. You fell on your sword, or balance scales, or whatever. :)
 
there is a lot of difference among knight System and medieval Italian,

strange but the bank. the rate/birth etc is mentioned in Bible !!!!!

mathew 25 27
 
It is beautiful to imagine the concept of bankruptcy. It just ment that the guard were breaking the stand.
Suppose a market selling tomatoes, another one fish and next one offering money.

I am relatively sure that bankruptcy was invented in venice, banks.... dont know... ebla?
 
Why would you think that any bankruptcy, of a person or an institution, is a good thing?

Even in something like a Chapter 11 today where vendors, for example, accept reduced payments, they're out of money.

You know how it works, right? Depositors put money (capital) in a bank, expecting a certain percentage of interest as well as return of their capital at expiration of their contract. The company or bank loans it to other people at a higher rate of interest, enough to cover payments to the investors as well as their profit. If the people to whom the money was owed defaulted on their loans to the extent that the bank's or company's liabilities are higher than the assets, not only does the bank (the people running it) lose everything, but the depositors lose all their money as well.

I suppose if they were smart enough to have stashed away a little bit, they could secure a place at some monastery or something, but otherwise they were on the streets. Of course, they could always kill themselves, which was big during the Great Depression as well.

If a whole city depended on banking for its prosperity, the suffering was spread far and wide.

This was capitalism at its most raw, not the watered down version we have today.
 
Angela said:
Why would you think that any bankruptcy, of a person or an institution, is a good thing?
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I don't know if this was directed at me.
I personally was very surprised when I learned that bankruptcy comes literally from physical 'rupture' (breaking) of the 'bank' (the main piece of wood).
funny no?
 
Bergin said:
I don't know if this was directed at me.
I personally was very surprised when I learned that bankruptcy comes literally from physical 'rupture' (breaking) of the 'bank' (the main piece of wood).
funny no?
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Yes, it was, sorry.

More precisely, banca rotta is broken bench.

"The word “bankrupt” comes from Italian banca rotta, which (translated) means “broken bench.” In Italy, money dealers worked from tables, or benches. When a money dealer ran out of money, his table (or bench) would be broken, and he could no longer deal money. Hence, the development of the use of the word banca rotta."
 
Nice, I did not know this.

Angela said:
Yes, it was, sorry.

More precisely, banca rotta is broken bench.

"The word “bankrupt” comes from Italian banca rotta, which (translated) means “broken bench.” In Italy, money dealers worked from tables, or benches. When a money dealer ran out of money, his table (or bench) would be broken, and he could no longer deal money. Hence, the development of the use of the word banca rotta."
Click to expand...
 
Bergin said:
It is beautiful to imagine the concept of bankruptcy. It just ment that the guard were breaking the stand.
Suppose a market selling tomatoes, another one fish and next one offering money.

I am relatively sure that bankruptcy was invented in venice, banks.... dont know... ebla?
Click to expand...

bankrupt in venetian is SBALONA..........bankruptcy is SBALA

No idea if Bankruptcy was invented in Venice ............but they did have one of the earliest banks along with Genoa
 
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