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Angela
25-07-17, 03:52
I love this series, as I loved the books, and one of the reasons is that the author knows how to write women who are believable and as varied in terms of personality as men.

"Like The Handmaid’s Tale, and unlike Wonder Woman, Game of Thrones also explores women’s relationship to institutional power in a variety of ways – while acknowledging that whatever this relationship might be, it is always categorically gendered. If Wonder Woman is a celebratory story of warrior queens, and The Handmaid’s Tale is a cautionary tale of female enslavement, Game of Thrones offers women who are emperors, slaves and everything in between. It is a world in which women who seem to be pawns have a way of turning out to be queens; but it is also a world that knows queens can always be taken.
Each of the women in Game of Thrones might be said to embody a certain archetypal female experience in relation to power. They cover the spectrum: from the initially conventional femininity of Sansa Stark, submissively learning needlepoint and manipulated by those around her; to her sister Arya, who rejects this sort of femininity in favour of a sword she ironically names “Needle”; to the knight Brienne of Tarth, who is mocked for her lack of femininity but lives like a man in a male-dominated world; to the priestess Melisandre, a fanatic who uses sexual power in the name of religious power; to the heroine Daenerys, whose story arc takes her from rape victim to conquering ruler; to the queen regent Cersei, whose evil is contextualised, if not justified, within a story of rage and thwarted ambition. Yara Greyjoy is a daughter trying to be like a man to please her ferociously misogynist father; Margaery Tyrell is a post-feminist pragmatist, using whatever power she can find to achieve her ends, while her grandmother Olenna (played to the hilt by Diana Rigg) is a cross between Catherine de Medici and the Mother Superior from The Sound of Music, wimple and all. And as the story has evolved, even the most submissive women, like Sansa, are emerging from their violent experiences with a survivor’s sense of strength – and vengeance."


They forgot Catelyn Stark, one of my favorite characters except for her treatment of John Snow: the strong, proud, loyal wife and loving, protective mother, with a firm grasp of the politics of her world, but like her son perhaps not the best judge of character.

I don't agree on the author's take on Cersei. Hey, a lot of people have terrible fathers...it doesn't excuse how evil she becomes.

Still, she does have some great one-liners from a woman's point of view:

" In season one, she tells Sansa Stark that when her brother “was taught to fight, I was taught to smile. He was heir to Casterly Rock, I was sold like a horse.” When Margaery coos that they will be just like sisters, Cersei snaps: “If you ever call me sister again, I’ll have you strangled in your sleep.” When a warrior from another land informs her that in his kingdom, “We don’t hurt little girls”, she replies: “Everywhere in the world, they hurt little girls.”


https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/jul/22/game-of-thrones-handmaids-tale-wonder-woman-female-power

Diomedes
25-07-17, 06:49
I love GoT. BTW, Euron reminded me of the old Viking raids. What an episode (season 7, ep. 2)! I hope Yara will not perish :(

Angela
25-07-17, 16:25
I love GoT. BTW, Euron reminded me of the old Viking raids. What an episode (season 7, ep. 2)! I hope Yara will not perish :(

So do I. I don't think I've missed a single episode.

Euron is an animal.

IronSide
25-07-17, 18:29
The only terribly written women in Game of Thrones were the Sand Snakes, also known as cringe snakes.

I've never been happier for a character's death, not even when Joffrey died (RIP beloved) plus I didn't forget they killed Myrcella :sad-2: and her handsome boyfriend, whoever that guy was.

One memorable quote from the sand snakes :


You want a good girl, but you need the bad pussy

simply genius :sad-2:

where did they get that line from ? Nicki Minaj ?

Diomedes
25-07-17, 20:26
Doesn't every man want that!?



One memorable quote from the sand snakes :
"You want a good girl, but you need the bad p*&#y"


Yetos
25-07-17, 23:13
the only character (and it was female) I like on GoT was Nymeria the direwolf


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90Q-MUj47hg

wild, team spirit and pure

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gcqxqmr9gic

Angela
26-07-17, 18:21
How can anyone not like Jon Snow and Daenerys?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoLwd4bQbJ4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoLwd4bQbJ4

Diomedes
26-07-17, 18:44
The prince that was promised may be Jaime.

Angela
26-07-17, 19:19
The prince that was promised may be Jaime.

I doubt it. I think it's either Jon or Daenerys.

Regardless, Jon is my absolutely favorite character...honorable, honest, just, compassionate, loving, as well as strong and determined. Since the prince (or princess) is supposed to be able to yield a sword of fire it might seem that it is Daenerys, and it might indeed be her, but as Jon is half Targaryen, it's possible he will transform further as his trials test him.

IronSide
27-07-17, 00:40
The prince that was promised will have a rare Valyrian Y-DNA that was found among the ancient remains of the dragon lords of Valyria, they were the first people to tame dragons and forge Valyrian steel, they also spoke proto Valyrian, the ancestral language of the Valyrian language family.

Diomedes
27-07-17, 15:46
Jon and Khaleesi are too obvious. If one of them is Azor Ahai, then I rest my case. Too easy bro!

Next season is the last. How will they be able to reveal so much in so small time?

Yetos
27-07-17, 21:40
The prince that was promised will have a rare Valyrian Y-DNA that was found among the ancient remains of the dragon lords of Valyria, they were the first people to tame dragons and forge Valyrian steel, they also spoke proto Valyrian, the ancestral language of the Valyrian language family.


Yes and its Ben or Bran
Soon he and Night King will be one


we know what is underneath each castle except Winterfell
Arya is going to find out, (maybe the spiders?)
Arya is one with faceless men etc
and Ben or Bran will be one with Night King
Winterfell and Stark are connected with Targaryen, they are the same


anyway I never understood why Martin change the boook in the story of Waif

what he earned? or us?


''The dire wolfs have always remained loyal''

but why Numeria turns her back to Arya?

Angela
27-07-17, 22:27
Ever since I posted that youtube video about GOT, things have been popping up in my inbox.

This is a great one of Olenna's best one liners. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f2mD_DccWshttps


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f2mD_DccWs

Angela
28-07-17, 16:13
Someone mentioned the Dornish prince who was killed. He was played by an English actor named Toby Sebasatian, another one of these good looking black curly haired, brown eyed and olive skinned Brits.
http://watchersonthewall.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Toby-Sebastian.jpg

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/gameofthrones/images/8/81/Toby-sebastian-gallery.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160712061218

Angela
04-08-17, 02:19
Ok, now I've had it. :) I'm going to write to HBO and complain about Jon Snow's hair lately.

I want this:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/0e/b2/2f/0eb22fa93241c3b2d8c7a65a1f1cfdef--john-snow-eye-candy.jpg

I want no more of this...For goodness' sakes, it's his only really beautiful feature, so leave it alone. Also, can't he afford some new animal fur cloaks now that he's King of the North? The ones he wears look filthy; they're probably crawling with fleas and lice. If they aim at realism in terms of living conditions they should have him scratching all the time. I mean, I know Daenerys had to put up with Drago and the Dothraki, but she's back in civilization now, or what passes for it in this world. :)
https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/entertainment/television/2017/07/31/the-mother-of-dragons-finally-meets-jon-snow-in-game-of-thrones-and-its-epic/got-jon-snow.jpg.size.custom.crop.1086x722.jpg

Angela
07-08-17, 18:40
All I can say about last night's episode is: WOW!

Spoiler Alert!

The Dothraki look like the Apaches in this scene.

Jamie is at his best here. Still not a good guy, though...throw young boy out of a building because he saw you and your sister having intercourse...uh, no!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQtGZYEvFhA

Angela
13-04-19, 23:52
Well, it's almost here. :)

I have a feeling it's going to live up to the hype.

I've resigned myself that probably not only Dany but Jon Snow, my favorite, is going to die. He'll probably go out in a blaze of heroism and self-sacrifice, which would be just like him, but which will still be really sad.

Sansa will probably survive, whom I can't stand, both the character and the actress :), perhaps as regent for Jon's and Dany's baby if they have one? Or maybe everyone will decide to submit it to a vote and someone else wil get it. As long as the Night King is defeated and Cersei gets killed, it's ok.

For us nerds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sL-1z167Bc

TardisBlue
14-04-19, 12:15
For book readers: there's a theory online that says that Jon is Azor Ahai, and Dany Nisa Nisa which means he'll have to kill her to defeat the While Walkers. Or Dany might be AA and Jon Nisa Nisa? Whatever the case, my bet is on Dany dying. I like her far more in the books than in the show, though she's been less annoying since she met Jon.

I want to see more of Ghost this seasonl! Apparently, he's gonna make a big come-back, which is great. I wonder how the meeting between Dany, her dragons and Ghost will go.

Will we ever see the release of the Winds of Winter? I'm still hoping.

exceededminimumso..
14-04-19, 23:32
Stewart Lee - STEWART LEE on GAME OF THRONES | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/SLContentProvider/videos/stewart-lee-on-game-of-thrones/10155869239233512/)

Yetos
15-04-19, 14:43
I think Martin has not overpass his meloDrama syndrome

of beauty and the beast

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/tv/2017/03/03/beautybeast_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqNvLtDx75wZSR0MSb26ou _3gVU_kHLfS6zy1KZpNOoWk.jpg?imwidth=450

mitty
17-04-19, 17:26
Stewart Lee - STEWART LEE on GAME OF THRONES | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/SLContentProvider/videos/stewart-lee-on-game-of-thrones/10155869239233512/)

^^^"Peter Stringfellow's Lord of the Rings" lol! Yes - I fully agree with Stewart!

17-04-19, 17:50
What happened to the direwolf story line, its connection with the Stark family sigil and the mind-meld that seemed to exist between the wolves and the Starks? Was it simply forgotten or will it reappear in the last episode?

Angela
17-04-19, 18:29
I was "underwhelmed" by the first episode. It only picked up for me with the scenes between Arya and Jon, and Jon and Sam.

I get the feeling Sansa is on the rise. If she wins it will spoil the whole show for me. I can't stand her. She's always been everything I hate about some women's character and behavior.

Hopefully the rest will be better.

17-04-19, 22:12
I was unhappy to see in the last season that Littlefinger was killed off with so little attempt to give the scene some lift - he deserved some appropriate final words. Tyrion and Varys also got little scope for wit. I don't dislike big battle scenes or low politics, but I miss the sparkle of the early seasons.

18-04-19, 03:56
I first found LOR as a paperback in the late 1960's and fell in love with it. I read those books so often the pages fell out. Then I bought the hardback and finally the Kindle edition. I re-read it again on a regular basis. I've read everything Tolkien wrote and everything about him . . . . I hate and loathe the LOR movies because they are not the Tolkien vision. I've tried to watch the movie several times (my boys love it), but I can't stand that this isn't the movie I imagined as I read the book. The numerous changes they made to characters, dialogue and situation are, to me, beyond the pale.Well, I got that off my chest.

TardisBlue
22-04-19, 17:24
Wow, wow, wow. Last night's episode sums up what I (and many people) like about GoT. It was absolutely riveting. Slow paced, no action, mainly conversations and character development, heavy and gloomy atmosphere… yet I was on the edge of my seat for the whole hour.
What a gripping episode, full of emotional intensity and a palpable sense of dread and urgency permeating every scene. The night setting and the indoors scenes with candle/fire light, the eerie atmosphere, the play of light and shadows, the sense of intimacy and poignancy you get from the interactions between the characters… especially given that half of them are probably going to die in the next episode. It was pure gold, first class episode. 10/10.
And we got to get a gimpse of Ghost :-)

Angela
22-04-19, 18:07
Wow, wow, wow. Last night's episode sums up what I (and many people) like about GoT. It was absolutely riveting. Slow paced, no action, mainly conversations and character development, heavy and gloomy atmosphere… yet I was on the edge of my seat for the whole hour.
What a gripping episode, full of emotional intensity and a palpable sense of dread and urgency permeating every scene. The night setting and the indoors scenes with candle/fire light, the eerie atmosphere, the play of light and shadows, the sense of intimacy and poignancy you get from the interactions between the characters… especially given that half of them are probably going to die in the next episode. It was pure gold, first class episode. 10/10.
And we got to get a gimpse of Ghost :-)

Took the words right out of my mouth. :) I was riveted too. This is one I'll watch again.

Just saw a behind the scenes video and the director was talking about how it was so important to him that each character be given "space" in this episode before the battle, because everyone loves them so much. He almost broke down crying.

When the creators of a show are just as in love with the characters and the story as the viewers, that's when you get great art.

I so don't want them to die, but die most of them will. :(

05-05-19, 23:13
Interesting that no one has commented on episode three. Kind of a let down that the chief bugaboo since the opening sequence of the series is so suddenly gone. I know the show likes to up-end expectations, but the rest of the series now seems like anti-climax.

Angela
05-05-19, 23:41
Interesting that no one has commented on episode three. Kind of a let down that the chief bugaboo since the opening sequence of the series is so suddenly gone. I know the show likes to up-end expectations, but the rest of the series now seems like anti-climax.

Couldn't agree more. That's one of the reasons I haven't commented. :)

I don't mean to say it wasn't a great episode in a lot of ways imo: the battle sequences, the character exposition, the suspense, all of that.

In addition to your point, I'm disappointed that they picked Arya to kill the Night King. I thought it was supposed to be about the Prince Who Was Promised who would save the world. Evil as Cersei is, that isn't'wasn't the existential threat, and Arya is not the Prince or Princess who was promised. She's more like a ninja girl suddenly leaping to the rescue.

Ever since they ran out of source material I haven't been as happy with the show. Maybe I'm short changing them, but it's almost like "let's make fantasy politically correct now and let the girl or young woman save the day." She would be totally unfit to rule Westeros. The only one who should rule is the one who doesn't want it and hates killing, as much as he might be good at it.

Now I know why there were all those episodes of Arya training. I thought they were boring. Only ones I skimmed through after taping the show.

Plus, it was too damn dark even after I used the settings to lighten it as much as possible. I couldn't tell what was happening in the air.

I'll still watch it, but I'm not expecting much.



I had the same reaction to "The Walking Dead". It was great in the beginning and then clunk. As it went on and got past the half way mark it was as if suddenly the local PTA was writing the scripts. I half expected them to have a training session on bullying.

06-05-19, 03:31
My chief disappointment has been the number of dead story lines. What about the dire wolves, the ability of the Starks, and some north of the wall, to mind meld with animals, the catacombs under Winterfell, and what the heck has Bran been doing? He supposedly knows everything that has ever happened, why doesn’t he share this info?

There’s a new thread for you, catalog the number of forgotten plot lines in GOT.

Yetos
06-05-19, 05:37
season 8 is just a fast bad screenplay, to end the series,

Catapults outside the wall, coffee drinks, total black for many sec',
most silly death of frozen zombies, etc

the main thing I will always say

IT IS BRAN THE PATHETIC
He knows all, But never say who made him like this,
He enjoys his status, as revenging all others.
simply outrageous,


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHfaQhVRf-U

Angela
06-05-19, 06:14
My chief disappointment has been the number of dead story lines. What about the dire wolves, the ability of the Starks, and some north of the wall, to mind meld with animals, the catacombs under Winterfell, and what the heck has Bran been doing? He supposedly knows everything that has ever happened, why doesn’t he share this info?

There’s a new thread for you, catalog the number of forgotten plot lines in GOT.

They would probably need another season or two, which would be great with me, but maybe the show runners, after ten years, want to move on.

I think either Arya or Jaime will kill Cersei. Maybe Jaime will try to protect her, and gets killed first. Jon will kill Daenerys, but he won't be king. He'll go north of the Wall to the Wildlings.

So who will rule? Maybe Sansa and Tyrion. Stark and Lanister.

It's not what I would like to happen, though. Sansa has become Littlefinger Lite, and Tyrion likes his drink too much. She's as cold as a snake and would just completely dominate him.

I just think the foreshadowing when Jon and Tormund were talking might be the way it will go. Sort of like Paul in the Dune Series. Jon is too good for the game of thrones.

13-05-19, 23:58
So, after last night, is GOT dead to you? If not, why not?

TardisBlue
14-05-19, 00:20
So, after last night, is GOT dead to you? If not, why not?

Tough one. I've declared fan bankruptcy after episode 3, so I'm mainly watching for the spectacle at this point and I'm ignoring the plot holes and the glaring inconsistencies, the simplifications, the shortcuts, the reduction of complex characters to mere caricatures of their former selves. I'm just curious to know how it will end (not gonna give up the show when there's only one episode left). They decided to go full "Dany the mad queen" mode, fine. I never liked show Dany anyway - arrogant, entitled, borderline. Some people seem surprised by her "sudden" change, I'm not really. The clues and hints of her madness were there all along, starting at season 1. While she'd somewhat kept a hold on her worst instincts till now, she just "snapped" in episode 5. I hope she gets what she deserves… she most certainly will.
I wouldn't rate this episode as low as episode 4 (which was really bad), the visuals were terrific and the scenes of destruction truly horrifying. But it'll never compare to the excellence of the first 3 seasons, and to the books, of course. Let's just hope Martin finishes the series and offers us the ending that we, readers and show watchers alike, deserve.

14-05-19, 00:42
That's an interesting point. When/if Martin finishes the books, will he follow the series lead, or find his own way and possibly contradict the series? The latter might lead to greater sales . . .

Angela
14-05-19, 00:53
So, after last night, is GOT dead to you? If not, why not?

No, it's not dead to me.

I know a lot of people have big problems with Daenerys going full on mad queen but it makes sense to me. Half the Targaryens go mad, and the signs were always there. She never had the stability and moral compass of Jon/Aegon. Vaserys was right, imo.

I was initially upset about Jaime's arc seeming to change, but on the other hand I understand how you can be so bonded to someone that if you know they're going to die alone you'd go to them, no matter what they've done, and the death of the Lannister twins in the keep is poetic, as is Sandor choosing to die in fire to kill his monster of a brother. I didn't need to see Cersei made to pay by having another Ninja moment with Arya or something.

I think a whole paper could be written about the sibling relationships in these books/show. Speaking of which, I got very emotional at the leave taking between Jaime and Tyrion.

I think my problem is really going to come next season. Poor Jon is going to have to kill Daenerys and I think they'll make him pay with his life. I get that he doesn't want it, I get that they'll make his life hell, but as was said, he'd make a good and wise ruler.

Maybe the showrunners, in addition to wanting to move on, thought that was too obviously the direction and wanted to shake things up and do something different. The problem for me is that anything else will be unsatisfactory. Sansa is Littlefinger Lite who betrayed her brother in an instant, Arya doesn't have the right skills, Tyrion, if he doesn't get killed, just makes too many mistakes. Who else is there? Bran? That's the solution?

14-05-19, 01:06
My point would be, not that you can't explain character arcs or plot twists, but what happened to the subtle politics and wit of the first years? What happened to the careful pacing? It can't be that they were in a hurry to finish, they're making lots of money on this so why not spin it out?

My issue is that, personally, I'm not into big death scenes and lots of carnage, I want characters that evolve, at a human pace, and interact with other humans in a believable fashion.

Angela
14-05-19, 01:33
My point would be, not that you can't explain character arcs or plot twists, but what happened to the subtle politics and wit of the first years? What happened to the careful pacing? It can't be that they were in a hurry to finish, they're making lots of money on this so why not spin it out?

My issue is that, personally, I'm not into big death scenes and lots of carnage, I want characters that evolve, at a human pace, and interact with other humans in a believable fashion.

They've spent ten years on this, and word is they have another project lined up. I'm sure HBO would have been happy to see it go on forever.

As to the carnage, people like to see extravagant set pieces like that, i.e. battles. Think of "Saving Private Ryan". Unless someone makes it real you don't really understand it. It's exciting, gets the pulse racing, and is cathartic. I like character driven movies too, but there's also room for the other kind, imo, although unlike me most of my women friends don't like them.

I also personally think some people need to be reminded what war is like on the ground, not only for innocent women, children, and other noncombatants, but for soldiers on the other side as well. All these whooping 20 and 30 somethings need a reality check.

Some people also need a reality check in terms of this to me inexplicable desire to be related to the aristocracy or royalty. I think of the conversation Bron had with the Lannister brothers: kill a couple of hundred, you get to be a Lord; kill thousands and tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands, and you get to be King. Jon is a good fighter, but he hates war. That's the way it should be. It's the amoral Brons of the world who enjoy power and found lasting dynasties.

14-05-19, 03:05
All good points, but we'll agree to differ on carnage-driven stories.

Your comment about 20 and 30 somethings reminds me of an episode of Big Bang Theory. All of the show's characters are dressed as super-heroes, on the way home from a party where they played at being strong and virtuous; they come on a scene, a group stealing car, that requires an heroic act, and they all turn and slink away. Easy to play-act, hard to act.

As to Bron and Jon, it's been said that the only man who should lead is the one who doesn't want the job. Isn't there a Roman that fits that description?

Angela
14-05-19, 05:07
All good points, but we'll agree to differ on carnage-driven stories.

Your comment about 20 and 30 somethings reminds me of an episode of Big Bang Theory. All of the show's characters are dressed as super-heroes, on the way home from a party where they played at being strong and virtuous; they come on a scene, a group stealing car, that requires an heroic act, and they all turn and slink away. Easy to play-act, hard to act.

As to Bron and Jon, it's been said that the only man who should lead is the one who doesn't want the job. Isn't there a Roman that fits that description?

Do you mean Cincinnatus? He left his farm to take absolute power perhaps more than once at a time of extreme peril for the Republic, and when the crisis was over he gave up power and returned to his farm.

George Washington is in some ways a Cincinnatus like figure. He was so revered that there were even calls for him to become King, or at least to rule indefinitely, but he refused to serve longer and returned to his farm as well, if a more wealthy farm.

There is also the story that Claudius, hiding somewhere in the palace while Caligula was being assassinated was found by the Praetorians and forced to become Emperor. It may or may not be true. He could just as well have been plotting with them. He was the last adult male of the family, and Caligula was mad as a hatter. Sounds familiar, I guess.

Have you read "I, Claudius" ? If you haven't, it's a lot of fun even if a lot of it is probably exaggerated.

I suppose you could also say something like that of Marcus Aurelius. From childhood he was destined for the purple, and yet he supposedly didn't want or perhaps was even afraid of the life of pomp at the imperial court. You would expect that of someone whom you could call a Stoic.

My husband still has and reads his university copy of "The Meditations".

TardisBlue
14-05-19, 07:46
That's an interesting point. When/if Martin finishes the books, will he follow the series lead, or find his own way and possibly contradict the series? The latter might lead to greater sales . . .

To me, there's no way Martin will follow the series lead. The show has diverged so much from the books at this point - some characters are dead in the series and not in the books, some have been completely omitted (Lady Stoneheart, Arianne Martell, Aegon/Young Griff, to name a few), Sansa's storyline has been completely changed, etc. – and though Martin apparently gave D&D a very general idea of the direction of the story, I'm sure we're gonna read something completely different when/if the books come out, something that will make much better sense than what we're seeing now. It's obvious that the show runners wanted to move on, that's why the final season looks so rushed and lacks all the complexity, character development, political games and twists that are precisely what define Martin's books and why we love those books (and the early seasons). In an interview, Martin said he was sad about how D&D will end the series… Here's the full quote (https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/books/1123230/Game-of-Thrones-George-RR-Martin-HBO-ending-books-change-differences-Iron-Throne-die).


"Some storylines and characters have continued to diverge from the books and Martin has been more vocal about the subject recently, telling Rolling Stone: "Of course you have an emotional reaction. I mean, would I prefer they do it exactly the way I did it? Sure.
In another frank chat this week with Fast Company he revealed: "It can also be... traumatic. Because sometimes their creative vision and your creative vision don't match, and you get the famous creative differences thing — that leads to a lot of conflict. Martin revealed one of his greatest frustrations: "You get totally extraneous things like the studio or the network weighing in, and they have some particular thing that has nothing to do with story, but relates to 'Well this character has a very high Q Rating so let's give him a lot more stuff to do.'"The author had previously said he would have liked the show to run across more series, to give all his complex storylines room. Instead, the HBO team entirely removed some characters or reassigned storylines.

Martin said: “The series has been... not completely faithful. Otherwise, it would have to run another five seasons.”

In the new interview he added: "You know, it’s complex. I’m a little sad, actually. I wish we had a few more seasons."


If you read between the lines, it's obvious that Martin is quite bitter about the series' ending and what D&D and HBO have done to his story.

Re, Jaime: I agree with Angela about the apparent change of Jaime's arc being upsetting at first. It seemed out of character for Jaime, given how much he'd changed from Season 1. I was pretty sure his aim in coming to K's landing was to kill Cersei, but after watching the episode and their final scene together, it makes sense to me too that he should choose to reunite with his twin at the very end. Seeing her so helpless and lost, well I almost felt sad for her! Actually, I did feel sad - forgetting for a moment that she was always a monster. That scene was quite moving.

Anyway, brace yourselves! Finale is coming.

Dibran
14-05-19, 13:11
Actually, while the story leading up to the end will be different in the books, Martin has openly stated the ending to this series will be the same as the book, with the difference being the fate of secondary characters, and story beats to how he reachs that end. Sadly I read the leaks for episode 5 and 6 a month ago. Episode 5 was 80 percent correct. This suggests the claims that the final episode would be shakespearan tragedy coupled with a Sopranos style cut to black may be true. It will kill half its fan base in the process. Guaranteed. You never end the show too open ended that you provide no closure. It appears to be exactly what we are going to get.

I am hopeful the long night series will be better than this final season, including the second spinoff thats currently in the writing stage. Focused on the fire and blood book, which is a targaryen story from Aegons conquest up to roberts rebellion. It would be interesting if that spinoff covers all that ground up to the rebellion.

TardisBlue
14-05-19, 18:53
Actually, while the story leading up to the end will be different in the books, Martin has openly stated the ending to this series will be the same as the book, with the difference being the fate of secondary characters, and story beats to how he reachs that end.

Yes, that's what I meant. I didn't mean it will necessarily be different in terms of outcome, but in terms of how it will all happen. Because yes, it's highly probable that Cersei will die but how she will die will hopefully be different in the books, if Martin sticks to the Valonqar prophecy. Yes, we know he tends to subvert prophecies, but up to now, all that Cersei was told by the witch when she was a teen came to pass (in the show… we can expect it'll be the same in the books, regarding Myrcella and Tommen and her being replaced by a more beautiful, younger queen… Sansa?) Dany going mad and destroying KL is also probable. There's been enough foreshadowing about that.
But at least with Martin, we'll get to follow the characters' respective journeys instead of (both literally and figuratively) being teleported from point A to point B without any organic and natural progression.
And we can expect all the characters' arcs to be resolved in a satisfying way. (Bran's arc, for ie, is a disaster in the show).

Angela
14-05-19, 19:30
Shakespearean tragedy is the right analogy, I think, although none of this, books or series is on the artistic level of that. Take someone who has never seen one of those plays to a production of Lear, or Hamlet, or Othello, or even Romeo and Juliet. The good die either through human mistakes, or stupid chance, or the machinations of the evil, and at the end you're looking at the survivors standing in a field of ruin.

Or look at Greek tragedies. The Trojan Women, Antigone, Oedipus Rex, all of them really. The "hero" who is willing to sacrifice all, atone for all, dies.

Human history is a Shakespearean tragedy, I think.

How does Hamlet end? When he was napping, his brother Claudius poured a poison into this ear which caused his skin to develop horrible sores. He dies a victim of his brother's betrayal.

Lear is betrayed by almost everyone. At the end he says to Cordelia:

"No, no, no, no! Come, let's away to prison:
We two alone will sing like birds i' the cage:
When thou dost ask me blessing, I'll kneel down,
And ask of thee forgiveness: so we'll live,
And pray, and sing, and tell old tales, and laugh
At gilded butterflies, and hear poor rogues
Talk of court news; and we'll talk with them too,
Who loses and who wins; who's in, who's out;
And take upon's the mystery of things,
As if we were God's spies: and we'll wear out,
In a wall'd prison, packs and sects of great ones,
That ebb and flow by the moon."

It's a pipe dream: they're going to prison, and Jon and Igrit or Jon and the old Dany can't flee the world for some hidden paradise.

In a way it's good to know that however it ends, and however much of a disservice the show runners may have done to subplots and characters (probably indeed mandated by studio executives) and rushed the ending, much to my dismay as to everyone else's, this is the way Martin saw the ending. He was aiming at a grand tragedy, not just another fantasy series where the hero wins.

In real life, in classical tragedy, the hero never wins. The wheel is never broken because the wheel is formed by human nature. Think of the wheel of life in eastern religions. It is formed by "wanting". As long as you live, you want, you are on that wheel. Only when you evolve to not "want" anymore can you stop the suffering by ceasing to be reborn and thus finally getting off the wheel.

When Daenerys says she wants to break the wheel, she means to stop the constant reshuffling of royal houses. How will she do that? By putting herself at the head. Even were she not a Targaryen, with mental instability, absolute power corrupts absolutely. That's no solution.

19-05-19, 02:36
Okay, here is my theory on how Danny dies, one day ahead off the last episode airing. Danny and Jon confront each other; Danny demands absolute loyalty and Jon won't give it. Danny tells her last dragon to fry Jon. The dragon, understanding better than anyone else who the real heir to the throne is, refuses and fries Danny instead. Jon, reluctantly, assumes the throne.

Ownstyler
19-05-19, 02:47
Okay, here is my theory on how Danny dies, one day ahead off the last episode airing. Danny and Jon confront each other; Danny demands absolute loyalty and Jon won't give it. Danny tells her last dragon to fry Jon. The dragon, understanding better than anyone else who the real heir to the throne is, refuses and fries Danny instead. Jon, reluctantly, assumes the throne.

Even with the unbelievably superficial "twists" they have introduced this year, this one seems to absurd for me. If they develop such a scenario, maybe Drogon will fry him but Jon survives since Targaryens seem to be immune to fire in the series. Also, if lore means anything anymore, note that Targaryens have been killed by the dragons on several occasions.

I am just hoping to see Nymeria again (unlikely) and have Bran do something.

TardisBlue
19-05-19, 10:18
I don't think Jon will take the throne, he'll probably go back to the North (and finally get to pet Ghost!!). Dany will die / be murdured and Sansa or someone else will reign over Westeros. BTW, be careful if you don't want to be spoiled: the script of the finale has leaked online.

Yetos
20-05-19, 11:19
So after plastic coffee drinks
In winterfell they had discover also water bottles

https://imagevars.gulfnews.com/2019/05/20/Water-Bottle-GOT-1558338448295_16ad435aba7_original-ratio.jpg

Jovialis
20-05-19, 13:12
I really liked last night's episode. I can't wait for the prequel.

Angela
20-05-19, 15:59
Goes to show how different we all are.

I wish I'd never watched any of Season 6, but especially this last episode. That way, my memories of Game of Thrones would be fond ones.

Beyond terrible, imo.

20-05-19, 17:26
In another thread there is a discussion about who the best Roman emperors were. How do we think Bran will do as King? A little detached and other-worldly to attend to the day-to-day needs of rule, don’t you think?

Angela
20-05-19, 17:56
In another thread there is a discussion about who the best Roman emperors were. How do we think Bran will do as King? A little detached and other-worldly to attend to the day-to-day needs of rule, don’t you think?

Well, detached is the word, don't you think? Looked like two minutes with the council and then off to go to la la land.

Even Robert Baratheon spent more time on matters of state than that.

I hated the whole thing. Why would anyone think a hereditary oligarchy is that much better than a hereditary kingship? Most of the real life, historical examples usually deteriorated into internal wars. Plus, the interaction of the members of the small council, especially with BRON on it, of all people, didn't inspire me with much confidence that really good decisions would be made.

Maybe part of my reaction to Bran as King is that the actor gives what I think are terrible performances. The only thing I see on his face is smug satisfaction. I wanted to smack him. :)

Perhaps I was on to something with my theory of the tragic hero. They really threw Jon under the bus. He goes off into exile, and these mediocre people are left in charge.

Or maybe HBO just wants to milk the franchise as much as it can and forced certain things on the writers. In addition to a prequel, can't you just see a whole "Arya" series? I'll be giving that one a pass. Or how about this one? They muck everything up in Westeros, so Jon has to come back riding Drogon to straighten it all out. The possibilities are now endless.

I yelled at the screen when they came up with that stupid let's send Jon to the Knight's Watch. :) What Knight's Watch? There are no knights there. Was he supposed to camp out there like a hermit? Even if there were some ex-Knights there, what would be their function? What would be HIS function? There's a huge freaking chunk down. How are they going to keep anyone out? The Wildings don't even want to be south of it. In another bit of stupidity they have Jon and the Wildings going out the gate. Just go out the huge missing chunk for goodness' sakes. Not everyone has forgotten it came down.

Maybe I'm too logical for this stuff. Sometimes it seemed like the writers forgot what happened in prior scenes.

20-05-19, 20:04
Didn’t Diocletian try “something” like an hereditary oligarchy with the tetrarchy? It worked out just as you might think it would. However, when I complain about illogic in a show with dragons and the undead, my wife just laughs at me.

Wheal
20-05-19, 20:25
I haven't seen any of this season, and I have to say, the books were much better than the series. On another note, I just returned from a trip to Ireland and was able to visit the Game of Thrones Touring Exhibition. It was very interesting.

Angela
20-05-19, 22:24
Didn’t Diocletian try “something” like an hereditary oligarchy with the tetrarchy? It worked out just as you might think it would. However, when I complain about illogic in a show with dragons and the undead, my wife just laughs at me.

There are conventions in certain kinds of literature which you either like or don't like, don't you think?

I'm a great fan of South American fiction, which contains many elements of what they call "magical realism". Or, there are fables/allegories like the "Chronicles of Narnia". Going in you have to accept that these are magical worlds.

However, they're not "illogical" worlds. Even the "magical" creatures or "events" have to follow the "rules" of logic.

Some people like it; after all, Marquez got himself a Nobel Prize for literature.

Some people hate it.

I like it; my husband hates it, and GOT. I tell him it's a failure of imagination and an inability to see beyond the surface of things. :) All in good humor, of course. :)

The thing is, if something, book, movie, television show, is well done, I'm up for almost every genre. He's not. I often watch things like Bruce Willis movies with him. There's no way he's going to watch yet another Jane Austen movie.:)

On the other hand I don't like certain kinds of fantasy i.e. The Marvel comic book heroes stuff. I've tried to watch it, but it's torture. Yet he'll watch that.

It takes all kinds to make the world, right?

Yetos
20-05-19, 23:07
Simply

season 8 is just a fast, (come on, lets finish it) very bad screenplay, and very cheap production, not to use another word,

they should put a fine in the production managers and teams, and specially screenmakers,

Catapults outside wall? whos idea was this?

TardisBlue
20-05-19, 23:28
I yelled at the screen when they came up with that stupid let's send Jon to the Knight's Watch. :) What Knight's Watch? There are no knights there. Was he supposed to camp out there like a hermit? Even if there were some ex-Knights there, what would be their function? What would be HIS function? There's a huge freaking chunk down. How are they going to keep anyone out? The Wildings don't even want to be south of it. In another bit of stupidity they have Jon and the Wildings going out the gate. Just go out the huge missing chunk for goodness' sakes. Not everyone has forgotten it came down.

The breach is in a different part of the Wall, at Eastwatch, a hundred miles from Castle Black (which is where Jon went back to at the end). I gathered that he (and Ghost!) left to live beyond the Wall with the Free Folk. The outcome for each character is satisfying to me, if only the story had been told better, in a less rushed manner which leave so many questions unanswered. Oh well. Bittersweet indeed.

Dibran
21-05-19, 02:03
There will be no sequels. Martin and HBO have confirmed as much. Everyones moving onto other projects and only 2 prequels are confirmed. One is filming its pilot(the long night) with the working title of Bloodmoon. Based in the age of heroes. Already casted and filming this summer. Second in the writing stage is based on the 2018 novel fire & blood which chronicles Aegons conquest up to roberts rebellion if im not mistaken. It remains to be seen whether that series will cover all that ground or only a section of it.

Also The ending in the show is exactly the ending we will get in the books, obviously with vastly different and better written plot device making sense of those final close outs. Martin already said in an interview that Bran/3ER would be the best king given his abilities. Additionally, its not really his acting. The 3ER is almost robotic, and so when he became him his soul was lost, Bran no more.

While horribly executed, the finale did have a few strong moments. Drogon burning the throne. To me(due the maesters saying they're smarter than humans) Drogon knew the throne is what corrupted his mother and led to her demise. This is why he spared Jon, not because hes a targaryen.

Jon wasn't really exiled in a literal sense. If you notice when he rides beyond the wall, the wildlings have their things packed as if a migrating party. Jon looks back at the gate one last time, and notices plants growing in the snow covered forest, and smirks. This is in some poorly written way showing he is happy beyond the wall and feels accomplished. Spring comes, along with an everlasting Summer. This means the land north of the wall will become lush and habitable again, eventually growing rich with game. I took it as Jon and the wildlings migrating to form a new people in new and uncharted northern regions, including the land of always winter(maybe now always summer? lol).

Its obvious they set out to have powerful moments but completely mishandled their execution. You just have to head cannon the aftermath to fill in the blanks.

Knut85
22-05-19, 15:04
I´ve never seen game of thrones so far ...

Efrain Garve
26-07-19, 12:28
Goooosh, Euron is my #love !

Efrain Garve
26-07-19, 12:29
I think you should do it :) you won't regret I promise

Faunus
27-07-19, 15:24
Last seasons were too disappointing.

Angela
27-09-19, 15:04
Yes, a complete sociopath. What a role model.