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Maciamo
24-08-17, 15:15
I now have the results of several Belgian people who tested with Living DNA. All got a bit of Scandinavian, and some got a from 1 to 3% of French, Basque, West Balkans, North Anatolian or Kurdish. But what really stood out is that all of them had considerable amount of Italian DNA, and in all but one samples that was exclusively Central Italian/Tuscan DNA. It ranged from 11% (in West Flanders) to 19% (in central Wallonia), with an average of about 15%. This is what I originally estimated to be the genetic contribution of the Romans to the Belgian gene pool, before I revised that estimate down to 5-10% based on the more conservative 'Italian' and 'Broadly South European' components in 23andMe.

Estimating Roman ancestry based on Y-DNA alone is very difficult because the Romans shared most of their haplogroups (such as R1b-U152, G2a-L497, G2a-U1, J2b2a-L283 and maybe even E-V13) with the Hallstatt and La Tène Celts (including the Gauls and Belgae). It's also not clear how haplogroups such as E-M34, E-M81, E-V22, J1, J2a, L1 and T1a got to the Benelux, although the ancient Romans/Italians are prime candidates. Altogether the former group (Italo-Celtic) makes up about 17% of the population. The latter group, that is to say the more recent Middle Eastern influx to the East Med, probably derived for the most part from the Kura-Araxes culture via Greece, amounts to 7.5%.

Based on the modern Y-DNA frequencies in the Latium, each group represent about half of the non-Germanic haplogroups. The ancient and modern Latium might be very different in terms of Y-DNA, but as it is the only good proxy we have at the moment, it is reasonable to say that 15% (± 5%) of Belgian Y-DNA might be of Roman origin. And that is exactly what the autosomal results from Living DNA say! At least now we know that, among all the potential Mediterranean populations that could have contributed to the above haplogroups, the Belgians correlate almost exclusively with the Central Italians autosomally. And indeed there is no other reasonable historical explanation for their presence. 5 or 6 years ago we might still have imagined that E-M34, E-V22, J1, J2a and T1a might have come to the Low Countries with Neolithic farmers. But that can be pretty much ruled out now. Even the G2a in Belgium is mostly of post-Indo-European origin, not Neolithic remnants from the LBK, Rössen or Michelsberg cultures.

Living DNA's autosomal composition isn't perfect yet, as all Belgians are reported to be mostly a mix of Southeast England, East Anglia, South England, Devon and Yorkshire. Overall Belgians get between 60% and 85% of British, depending on the individual, due to the close proximity and historical connections (Belgae, Anglo-Saxons) between the two populations. That should be resolved soon when more samples from the Benelux get tested. But when it comes to clearly differentiated populations (i.e. not immediate neighbours), like Central Italians, the results are pretty amazing.

I am really interested in seeing how other Europeans from former parts of the Roman Empire, especially outside Italy (too high Roman ancestry) and Britain (too low Roman ancestry) will turn out. Please share your results.

Twilight
24-08-17, 16:34
I now have the results of several Belgian people who tested with Living DNA. All got a bit of Scandinavian, and some got a from 1 to 3% of French, Basque, West Balkans, North Anatolian or Kurdish. But what really stood out is that all of them had considerable amount of Italian DNA, and in all but one samples that was exclusively Central Italian/Tuscan DNA. It ranged from 11% (in West Flanders) to 19% (in central Wallonia), with an average of about 15%. This is what I originally estimated to be the genetic contribution of the Romans to the Belgian gene pool, before I revised that estimate down to 5-10% based on the more conservative 'Italian' and 'Broadly South European' components in 23andMe.

Estimating Roman ancestry based on Y-DNA alone is very difficult because the Romans shared most of their haplogroups (such as R1b-U152, G2a-L497, G2a-U1, J2b2a-L283 and maybe even E-V13) with the Hallstatt and La Tène Celts (including the Gauls and Belgae). It's also not clear how haplogroups such as E-M34, E-M81, E-V22, J1, J2a, L1 and T1a got to the Benelux, although the ancient Romans/Italians are prime candidates. Altogether the former group (Italo-Celtic) makes up about 17% of the population. The latter group, that is to say the more recent Middle Eastern influx to the East Med, probably derived for the most part from the Kura-Araxes culture via Greece, amounts to 7.5%.

Based on the modern Y-DNA frequencies in the Latium, each group represent about half of the non-Germanic haplogroups. The ancient and modern Latium might be very different in terms of Y-DNA, but as it is the only good proxy we have at the moment, it is reasonable to say that 15% (± 5%) of Belgian Y-DNA might be of Roman origin. And that is exactly what the autosomal results from Living DNA say! At least now we know that, among all the potential Mediterranean populations that could have contributed to the above haplogroups, the Belgians correlate almost exclusively with the Central Italians autosomally. And indeed there is no other reasonable historical explanation for their presence. 5 or 6 years ago we might still have imagined that E-M34, E-V22, J1, J2a and T1a might have come to the Low Countries with Neolithic farmers. But that can be pretty much ruled out now. Even the G2a in Belgium is mostly of post-Indo-European origin, not Neolithic remnants from the LBK, Rössen or Michelsberg cultures.

Living DNA's autosomal composition isn't perfect yet, as all Belgians are reported to be mostly a mix of Southeast England, East Anglia, South England, Devon and Yorkshire. Overall Belgians get between 60% and 85% of British, depending on the individual, due to the close proximity and historical connections (Belgae, Anglo-Saxons) between the two populations. That should be resolved soon when more samples from the Benelux get tested. But when it comes to clearly differentiated populations (i.e. not immediate neighbours), like Central Italians, the results are pretty amazing.

I am really interested in seeing how other Europeans from former parts of the Roman Empire, especially outside Italy (too high Roman ancestry) and Britain (too low Roman ancestry) will turn out. Please share your results.

Interesting, I got 3.5% Italian (1.8% Tuscany and 1.6% Sardinian). I just figured my Italian results were a proxy of my French Canadian Ancestry and my 3% East European ancestry as a nod to my polish 3rd Great Grandmother. If it's true that I am as French as I am Roman, that would be quite impressive. Are there any events in Belgian history that would cause your Roman ancestry to be so high? :)

Sennevini
24-08-17, 18:00
Interesting; I remember seeing elsewhere a few Brits who had Tuscan as well, though most did not have it.
They give me 68,8% GB (most SE England, Lincolnshire, East Anglia), and then interestingly 19% Scandinavian and 1,5% Germanic (I would expect it the other way around; I am mostly central/south Dutch; calculators show me closest to South Dutch and West German second; the Frankish heartland). I do have 1,5% Iberian, 1,5% West-Balkan and 2,5% Kurdish, which I tend to connect to my 1/16 Jewish. The remainder 4,1% is SE Asian, stemming from colonial times.
I don't have the Italian component; I do maybe have a Roman Y-lineage, since my closests Y37-matches seem to be a Z145+-cluster; I am waiting for SNP results below U152 though; could be totally different.

It's now waiting for the German project (and hopefully the Benelux; I can't take part since I am an urban mixture).

Sile
24-08-17, 19:19
I now have the results of several Belgian people who tested with Living DNA. All got a bit of Scandinavian, and some got a from 1 to 3% of French, Basque, West Balkans, North Anatolian or Kurdish. But what really stood out is that all of them had considerable amount of Italian DNA, and in all but one samples that was exclusively Central Italian/Tuscan DNA. It ranged from 11% (in West Flanders) to 19% (in central Wallonia), with an average of about 15%. This is what I originally estimated to be the genetic contribution of the Romans to the Belgian gene pool, before I revised that estimate down to 5-10% based on the more conservative 'Italian' and 'Broadly South European' components in 23andMe.

Estimating Roman ancestry based on Y-DNA alone is very difficult because the Romans shared most of their haplogroups (such as R1b-U152, G2a-L497, G2a-U1, J2b2a-L283 and maybe even E-V13) with the Hallstatt and La Tène Celts (including the Gauls and Belgae). It's also not clear how haplogroups such as E-M34, E-M81, E-V22, J1, J2a, L1 and T1a got to the Benelux, although the ancient Romans/Italians are prime candidates. Altogether the former group (Italo-Celtic) makes up about 17% of the population. The latter group, that is to say the more recent Middle Eastern influx to the East Med, probably derived for the most part from the Kura-Araxes culture via Greece, amounts to 7.5%.

Based on the modern Y-DNA frequencies in the Latium, each group represent about half of the non-Germanic haplogroups. The ancient and modern Latium might be very different in terms of Y-DNA, but as it is the only good proxy we have at the moment, it is reasonable to say that 15% (± 5%) of Belgian Y-DNA might be of Roman origin. And that is exactly what the autosomal results from Living DNA say! At least now we know that, among all the potential Mediterranean populations that could have contributed to the above haplogroups, the Belgians correlate almost exclusively with the Central Italians autosomally. And indeed there is no other reasonable historical explanation for their presence. 5 or 6 years ago we might still have imagined that E-M34, E-V22, J1, J2a and T1a might have come to the Low Countries with Neolithic farmers. But that can be pretty much ruled out now. Even the G2a in Belgium is mostly of post-Indo-European origin, not Neolithic remnants from the LBK, Rössen or Michelsberg cultures.

Living DNA's autosomal composition isn't perfect yet, as all Belgians are reported to be mostly a mix of Southeast England, East Anglia, South England, Devon and Yorkshire. Overall Belgians get between 60% and 85% of British, depending on the individual, due to the close proximity and historical connections (Belgae, Anglo-Saxons) between the two populations. That should be resolved soon when more samples from the Benelux get tested. But when it comes to clearly differentiated populations (i.e. not immediate neighbours), like Central Italians, the results are pretty amazing.

I am really interested in seeing how other Europeans from former parts of the Roman Empire, especially outside Italy (too high Roman ancestry) and Britain (too low Roman ancestry) will turn out. Please share your results.

If this is the case in that central italians are close to the belgae , then one must investigate the central Italian Umbri people and where they originate from, they are far older than the etruscans and IF one was to follow italian scholars , the Umbri where from upper rhine area....( but I have not checked this out ).

The Germanics of the Belgae should be a later intruder

ihype02
24-08-17, 19:52
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Romancoloniae.jpg
There was no massive population influx like in some other zones (Balkans). So I would say yes.

Eochaidh
24-08-17, 21:54
My grandfather was born in Frosinone, Latzio, but his father came from Abruzzo. He never gets any central (or much of any) Italian.

This is Living DNA
9068

Here are the others for reference
9069

Cato
25-08-17, 00:30
I'm not an expert of genetic but maybe is correlated with Italic ancestry...Central Italy was inhabited by a lot of tribes, not just Romans. Other Latins, Sabines, Picenes, Etruscans, Umbrians, Faliscans etc..

ihype02
25-08-17, 08:24
My grandfather was born in Frosinone, Latzio, but his father came from Abruzzo. He never gets any central (or much of any) Italian.
This is Living DNA
9068
Here are the others for reference
9069
If you don't mind me to ask for how many generations have your accenstors been in Abruzzo?

Maciamo
25-08-17, 10:08
Interesting; I remember seeing elsewhere a few Brits who had Tuscan as well, though most did not have it.
They give me 68,8% GB (most SE England, Lincolnshire, East Anglia), and then interestingly 19% Scandinavian and 1,5% Germanic (I would expect it the other way around; I am mostly central/south Dutch; calculators show me closest to South Dutch and West German second; the Frankish heartland). I do have 1,5% Iberian, 1,5% West-Balkan and 2,5% Kurdish, which I tend to connect to my 1/16 Jewish. The remainder 4,1% is SE Asian, stemming from colonial times.
I don't have the Italian component; I do maybe have a Roman Y-lineage, since my closests Y37-matches seem to be a Z145+-cluster; I am waiting for SNP results below U152 though; could be totally different.

It's now waiting for the German project (and hopefully the Benelux; I can't take part since I am an urban mixture).

I am not surprised by your lack of Italian admixture as the Romans only settled in a few specific parts of the Netherlands, cities along the Meuse and Rhine like Maastricht (historically a Belgian city), Nijmegen, Utrecht and Leiden. These were essentially military garrisons to protect the borders and may have been populated by legionaries from any part of the empire, including Iberia, the Balkans and Anatolia (hence your various admixtures from these regions).

In contrast, most of Belgium, except the coastal areas and Kempen, were heavily settled by the Romans, who had hundreds of villas (http://www.eupedia.com/belgium/roman_cities_villas_belgium.shtml) and (re-)founded cities/towns like Tournai, Mons, Kortrijk, Tongeren, Namur, Gembloux, Ciney, Huy and Arlon. Tongeren was one of the first Roman colony outside of Italy and Spain, founded c. 50 BCE like Paris.

One of my ancestral villages had three Roman villas, the same concentration per km² as you'd expected in the Italian countryside. Parts of Roman Belgium might have been ethnically close to the Italo-Celtic (Gallo-Roman) mix found in northern Italy at the time. Interestingly, castle-farms were built next these Roman villas in the Middle Ages and covered the same territories, as if continuing the Roman estates in a nearly uninterrupted manner. That may be because Belgium was the only part of the Western Roman Empire that never suffered invasions from Germanic tribes. The Franks were the only Germanic tribe who was allowed to settled peacefully in Roman times and became thoroughly Romanised, providing many Roman generals and senators, protecting the borders against other Germanics, and eventually rebuilding the Roman Empire under Charlemagne. That is why the Roman population did not suffer as much as elsewhere. In Britain, most of the Roman citizens fled back to Italy when the Anglo-Saxons arrived, explaining the very low Italian admixture among modern Britons. In the Netherlands or the Rhine, legions also moved away from the border to defend Italy, leaving Roman cities depopulated. That didn't happen in Belgium.

Once you remove the more recent Germanic haplogroups from the Belgian population, the closest match is indeed northern to central Italy. Here are the inferred Y-DNA frequencies of Gallo-Roman Belgium, once Germanic haplogroups are excluded. I kept all the E1b1b and J2 as it's not clear yet if the Franks brought any of it.

E-M34 : 2%
E-M78 : 9%
G2a : 10%
J1 : 1%
J2a : 5%
J2b : 1%
L1 : 0.5%
R1b-L23/Z2103 : 6%
R1b-U152 : 30.5%
R1b-P312(xU152) : 30.5%
T1a : 4%

If we also exclude Germanic haplogroups in Italy, these frequencies are very similar to Tuscany and Lombardy. The main differences are:

1) Belgium has less J2, but more T1a. This could be due either to a founder effect among the Roman colonists or to a too small sample size for minor haplogroups in Belgium. Minor haplogroups vary also widely between studies in Italian provinces.

2) Belgium has proportionally a bit more R1b-P312 (L21, DF27, etc.) than U152 compared to Italy, which is expected considering the higher Gaulish ancestry.

Everything else is nearly a perfect match.

Pratt
25-08-17, 10:30
My grandfather was born in Frosinone, Latzio, but his father came from Abruzzo. He never gets any central (or much of any) Italian.

This is Living DNA
9068

Here are the others for reference
9069


Frosinone and Abruzzo are more southern Italy rather than central Italy.

Maciamo
25-08-17, 11:41
I'm not an expert of genetic but maybe is correlated with Italic ancestry...Central Italy was inhabited by a lot of tribes, not just Romans. Other Latins, Sabines, Picenes, Etruscans, Umbrians, Faliscans etc..

Of course. It depends what you consider 'Roman', or rather 'when'. My definition of Roman here is inhabitants of the Roman Republic before the expansion outside Italy (i.e. before the Punic Wars). Therefore they include the Latins, Sabines, Faliscans, Umbrians, Etruscans, etc.

At present Living DNA only divides Italy in four parts: North, Centre, South and Sardinia. It will be interesting to see the correlation between Italian provinces and other Europeans once the scale is further refined. But it's quite telling that the current match with Belgians is almost exclusively Central Italians (and they use Tuscany as a population reference, so it's not really all Central Italy). I had already noticed that on the PCA plot in first version of 23andMe a few Belgians were clustered both with French-Germans and Tuscans (but no other part of Italy). One of my HLA types is also found almost exclusively in central Italy. I think that the Roman ancestry is quite incontrovertible.

Eochaidh
25-08-17, 18:26
If you don't mind me to ask for how many generations have your accenstors been in Abruzzo?

I don't know. We always just knew about Frosinone and some of the aunts were in contact with the family there. When I did DNA testing I found that most of the Italian connections (that I could reasonably trace) were from western Abruzzo. I dug deeper and found that both my grandfather and his brother listed Arischia as their birthplace. This is in L'Aguilla, Abruzzo and due west of Rieta in the map below.

9072

I used the surname website that Angela posted and saw that his surname Capanna, is common in western Abruzzo, but not Frosinone. His mother's surname, Quatrini is common in Frosinone but not L'Aquilla.

Sennevini
25-08-17, 20:04
@Maciamo, you may find my post here (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?11663-K36-based-oracle-with-ancients&p=278809&viewfull=1#post278809) interesting;

Vallicanus
25-08-17, 20:13
I don't know. We always just knew about Frosinone and some of the aunts were in contact with the family there. When I did DNA testing I found that most of the Italian connections (that I could reasonably trace) were from western Abruzzo. I dug deeper and found that both my grandfather and his brother listed Arischia as their birthplace. This is in L'Aguilla, Abruzzo and due west of Rieta in the map below.

9072

I used the surname website that Angela posted and saw that his surname Capanna, is common in western Abruzzo, but not Frosinone. His mother's surname, Quatrini is common in Frosinone but not L'Aquilla.

Interesting. The Abruzzese provided the Rome countryside (Agro Romano) with much of its agricultural labour force for centuries.

Be careful with your spelling.
It's L'Aquila and Rieti.

BTW L'Aquila is east of Rieti.

Angela
26-08-17, 21:19
My grandfather was born in Frosinone, Latzio, but his father came from Abruzzo. He never gets any central (or much of any) Italian.

This is Living DNA
9068

Here are the others for reference
9069

Ecohaidh, what I find confusing is these results. They are of a 100% Italian, from the Abruzzi and Lazio? It's fine and expected he would get little to no Northern Italian and Tuscan, but where is his southern Italian, and/or Greek?

If I'm not misreading them, then Living DNA has some serious problems in detecting Italian ancestry.

ihype02
26-08-17, 21:31
Maybe it is coincidence that your Italian genetic cousins did not test themselves thus the result end up like this.

davef
26-08-17, 22:36
Ecohaidh, what I find confusing is these results. They are of a 100% Italian, from the Abruzzi and Lazio? It's fine and expected he would get little to no Northern Italian and Tuscan, but where is his southern Italian, and/or Greek?
If I'm not misreading them, then Living DNA has some serious problems in detecting Italian ancestry.
Yeah, and I only see 20 something percent of his genome in each of those images; Ecohaidh, could you show us what the remaining 75-80 percent is like?
I'll admit, I think he's posting his own results and what he got from his grandfather (since he's only showing roughly 25 percent of his (assuming those are his scores and not his grandfather's) total inheritance in each of those images).

Eochaidh
26-08-17, 22:50
Ecohaidh, what I find confusing is these results. They are of a 100% Italian, from the Abruzzi and Lazio? It's fine and expected he would get little to no Northern Italian and Tuscan, but where is his southern Italian, and/or Greek?

If I'm not misreading them, then Living DNA has some serious problems in detecting Italian ancestry.

I cannot say with certainty whether he had any unusual ancestry. My aunts who visited his sisters in Italy did not mention anything interesting like that.

If you note the other companies (MyHeritage is excluded, but about the same), they are all over the place as well. The second version of FTDNA is also very different that the earlier version. The first version had a distinct west Europe (Iberian) tilt. The new one is now tilting to east Europe.

It may be that all of the companies has issues with Italy.

Eochaidh
26-08-17, 23:05
Yeah, and I only see 20 something percent of his genome in each of those images; Ecohaidh, could you show us what the remaining 75-80 percent is like?
I'll admit, I think he's posting his own results and what he got from his grandfather (since he's only showing roughly 25 percent of his (assuming those are his scores and not his grandfather's) total inheritance in each of those images).

The rest is generally Ireland. Here is a picture. Both MyHeritage and Living DNA have me at 84% Irish or Great Britain and Ireland. That is why I included some south England numbers in the original graphic to make up the about 25% that he needs.

9074

davef
26-08-17, 23:33
Thanks. You mention that your grandfather scores little to no Italian, are you guessing this based on what you scored?

Maciamo
27-08-17, 10:08
The rest is generally Ireland. Here is a picture. Both MyHeritage and Living DNA have me at 84% Irish or Great Britain and Ireland. That is why I included some south England numbers in the original graphic to make up the about 25% that he needs.

9074

Are these your DNA results or your grandfather? If it is your grandfather, then he is not Italian. All results give overwhelming Irish ancestry. Considering that you are R1b-M222 (an Irish haplogroup), I suppose that these are your results and you are referring to your maternal grandfather, right?

davef
27-08-17, 15:13
Are these your DNA results or your grandfather? If it is your grandfather, then he is not Italian. All results give overwhelming Irish ancestry. Considering that you are R1b-M222 (an Irish haplogroup), I suppose that these are your results and you are referring to your maternal grandfather, right?
Those are his.

Eochaidh
27-08-17, 15:31
Thanks. You mention that your grandfather scores little to no Italian, are you guessing this based on what you scored?

Yes, I phrased this poorly. I score little or no Italian on any of the 5 companies to which I sent my results. Since the Irish is consistently accounted for by about 75%, which matches the paper trail, I concluded that the remaining approximately 25% is from my Italian maternal grandfather.

Eochaidh
27-08-17, 15:40
Are these your DNA results or your grandfather? If it is your grandfather, then he is not Italian. All results give overwhelming Irish ancestry. Considering that you are R1b-M222 (an Irish haplogroup), I suppose that these are your results and you are referring to your maternal grandfather, right?

Yes, as explained to Davef, I was not clear. I have seen other people with non-southern Italian, but still Italian ancestry receive results like mine. In the US, Italian-Americans are very much from the south, especially Sicily and Calabria which Ancestry lists as Italy/Greece. My thought was that these commercial companies are following the money and putting their work into the south of Italy.

I did not mean to hijack the thread about Roman ancestry, but merely to add that in some cases, central Italy may be problematic with respect to these tests.

srdceleva
01-09-17, 07:37
I score 9% Tuscan ( central Italy) and besides my Slovak side I'm a quarter mostly British isles with German, swiss, and French influence. My dad scores 8% Tuscan as a full Slovak. The Romans never really had a strong presence in Slovakia so I don't know where this component is from

Sent from my KIW-L21 using Tapatalk

Arnaud
01-09-17, 18:02
My mother recently participated to Geno 2.0. and they told her that she's 72% Western and Central European and 27% Southern European. I was wondering if Southern European component is a proxy for Roman ancestry. 27%, it's pretty big. She's 100% French Canadian, all from North-Western France (and a great-great-grandfather from the Buckinghamshire).

Maciamo
02-09-17, 08:23
My mother recently participated to Geno 2.0. and they told her that she's 72% Western and Central European and 27% Southern European. I was wondering if Southern European component is a proxy for Roman ancestry. 27%, it's pretty big. She's 100% French Canadian, all from North-Western France (and a great-great-grandfather from the Buckinghamshire).

No, it's not a good proxy. It includes all southern European ancestry, even southern French one.

Maciamo
02-09-17, 08:26
I score 9% Tuscan ( central Italy) and besides my Slovak side I'm a quarter mostly British isles with German, swiss, and French influence. My dad scores 8% Tuscan as a full Slovak. The Romans never really had a strong presence in Slovakia so I don't know where this component is from


The Romans had a considerable presence in Pannonia, notably around Vienna. Western Slovakia was also part of it.

td120
11-09-17, 11:15
...I am really interested in seeing how other Europeans from former parts of the Roman Empire, especially outside Italy (too high Roman ancestry) and Britain (too low Roman ancestry) will turn out. Please share your results.

First - Hello to everybody, my first post on this forum :- )


Here are my results from Living (my ancestry is mainly from Eastern and Western Thrace and to a lesser extent the Eastern Balkan mountains near the Black Sea..all ethnic Bulgarians).


Complete - SubRegions:


East Balkans- 22.4%
West Balkans - 11%
Pannonia - 10.1%
Northeast Europe - 5.6%
Mordovia - 3%
Baltics- 2.4%
South Italy-12.9%
Tuscany-10.9%
North Italy-3.4%
Aegean-3.1%
Germanic-8.4%
Pastun-4.5%
Kurdish-2.3%
..................


Standard - Sub Regions:


East Balkans- 22.4%
West Balkans - 11%
Pannonia - 10.1%
Northeast Europe - 5.6%
South Italy-12.9%
Tuscany-10.9%
Germanic-8.4%
Europe Unassigned-11.9%
Pashtun-4.5%
World Unassigned-2.3%
............


Cautious - Regional (this is the lowest level in this mode):


Northeast Europe-related ancestry - 49.1%
Tuscany-related ancestry-32.1%
Europe unassigned-11.9%
Pashtun related ancestry- 4.5%
World unassigned- 2.3%


I got 43% Italy/Greece on Ancestry ( and "Southeastern Europeans Genetic Community" with 95% confidence )


FTDNA gave me 74% Southeast Europe


23and me --- 5% Italian .


My Bulgarian matches on 23andme with 4 Bulgarian GrParents score between 2% and 14% Italian . My Greek matches with 4 Greek GrParents score between 3% and 43.3% Italian .

Pax Augusta
04-10-17, 18:17
Two British results on Living DNA, they both get 10-12% Tuscan


http://donnarutherford.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/IMG_1747-768x1024.png

https://phaven-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/files/image_part/asset/1832541/hpy79a8ZcMM8EdGqPdBBQTtuevM/medium_livingsub.jpg

Pax Augusta
04-10-17, 18:30
At present Living DNA only divides Italy in four parts: North, Centre, South and Sardinia. It will be interesting to see the correlation between Italian provinces and other Europeans once the scale is further refined. But it's quite telling that the current match with Belgians is almost exclusively Central Italians (and they use Tuscany as a population reference, so it's not really all Central Italy). I had already noticed that on the PCA plot in first version of 23andMe a few Belgians were clustered both with French-Germans and Tuscans (but no other part of Italy). One of my HLA types is also found almost exclusively in central Italy. I think that the Roman ancestry is quite incontrovertible.

If this Central Italian/Tuscan component in Living DNA is a good proxy for Roman ancestry, it could imply a proto-Villanovan connection.

Latial culture and Villanovans (Tuscans) descend from the proto-Villanovan culture.

Dibran
04-10-17, 18:46
I now have the results of several Belgian people who tested with Living DNA. All got a bit of Scandinavian, and some got a from 1 to 3% of French, Basque, West Balkans, North Anatolian or Kurdish. But what really stood out is that all of them had considerable amount of Italian DNA, and in all but one samples that was exclusively Central Italian/Tuscan DNA. It ranged from 11% (in West Flanders) to 19% (in central Wallonia), with an average of about 15%. This is what I originally estimated to be the genetic contribution of the Romans to the Belgian gene pool, before I revised that estimate down to 5-10% based on the more conservative 'Italian' and 'Broadly South European' components in 23andMe.

Estimating Roman ancestry based on Y-DNA alone is very difficult because the Romans shared most of their haplogroups (such as R1b-U152, G2a-L497, G2a-U1, J2b2a-L283 and maybe even E-V13) with the Hallstatt and La Tène Celts (including the Gauls and Belgae). It's also not clear how haplogroups such as E-M34, E-M81, E-V22, J1, J2a, L1 and T1a got to the Benelux, although the ancient Romans/Italians are prime candidates. Altogether the former group (Italo-Celtic) makes up about 17% of the population. The latter group, that is to say the more recent Middle Eastern influx to the East Med, probably derived for the most part from the Kura-Araxes culture via Greece, amounts to 7.5%.

Based on the modern Y-DNA frequencies in the Latium, each group represent about half of the non-Germanic haplogroups. The ancient and modern Latium might be very different in terms of Y-DNA, but as it is the only good proxy we have at the moment, it is reasonable to say that 15% (± 5%) of Belgian Y-DNA might be of Roman origin. And that is exactly what the autosomal results from Living DNA say! At least now we know that, among all the potential Mediterranean populations that could have contributed to the above haplogroups, the Belgians correlate almost exclusively with the Central Italians autosomally. And indeed there is no other reasonable historical explanation for their presence. 5 or 6 years ago we might still have imagined that E-M34, E-V22, J1, J2a and T1a might have come to the Low Countries with Neolithic farmers. But that can be pretty much ruled out now. Even the G2a in Belgium is mostly of post-Indo-European origin, not Neolithic remnants from the LBK, Rössen or Michelsberg cultures.

Living DNA's autosomal composition isn't perfect yet, as all Belgians are reported to be mostly a mix of Southeast England, East Anglia, South England, Devon and Yorkshire. Overall Belgians get between 60% and 85% of British, depending on the individual, due to the close proximity and historical connections (Belgae, Anglo-Saxons) between the two populations. That should be resolved soon when more samples from the Benelux get tested. But when it comes to clearly differentiated populations (i.e. not immediate neighbours), like Central Italians, the results are pretty amazing.

I am really interested in seeing how other Europeans from former parts of the Roman Empire, especially outside Italy (too high Roman ancestry) and Britain (too low Roman ancestry) will turn out. Please share your results.

For LivingDNA I get 13.7 Italian, 15.2 if you count Sardinian. Would this be related to Roman ancestry in the case of other ethnicities including Albanians?

North Italy: 6.7
South Italy: 4
Tuscany: 3
Sardinia: 1.5

gidai
02-11-18, 22:08
(...)
I am really interested in seeing how other Europeans from former parts of the Roman Empire, especially outside Italy (too high Roman ancestry) and Britain (too low Roman ancestry) will turn out. Please share your results.
Their estimation from Italy is 4.8% Tuscany and 5% South Italy.
But also 8.7% England... although all the ancestors I know for 150-200 years are from a small region in central-south Romania.
Y-DNA G2a-P303

davef
02-11-18, 22:30
It's more likely to be a Neolithic connection with Tuscans who are already mostly Neolithic in makeup, that's my bet

Salento
02-11-18, 23:57
It's more likely to be a Neolithic connection with Tuscans who are already mostly Neolithic in makeup, that's my bet

It could also be both: Neolithic Tuscan connection and Italic Roman.

I also would like to congratulate you, Your Majesty, for being Anointed as the new:
“King of New York”!
King Davef :-)

http://i.imgur.com/KJ41ozH.jpg

Salento
03-11-18, 17:36
imo It’s possible that there’s Roman DNA assigned to UK Results.
Look at this Map:

https://i.imgur.com/EogjlIQ.jpg

It Matches the Southern Roman settlements and Towns, the Antonine Wall to the North, but Nothing in the Middle.

East Anglia shows the highest %, and is the region of Queen Boudica of the Iceni, who led an uprising of about 100-Thousand Spears against Rome, but ... (a great story).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudica

I’ve been told that those DNA Markers could have come into Italy with the Lombards, or the Normans.
It could be, but I doubt it; no German and no Scandinavian DNA % in this case.

davef
07-11-18, 00:21
It could also be both: Neolithic Tuscan connection and Italic Roman.

I also would like to congratulate you, Your Majesty, for being Anointed as the new:
“King of New York”!
King Davef :-)

http://i.imgur.com/KJ41ozH.jpg
Lol thanks! It's a shame our current New York King Cuomidus Taxmaximus still has the throne
)

gidai
07-11-18, 14:24
imo It’s possible that there’s Roman DNA assigned to UK Results.
Look at this Map:

https://i.imgur.com/EogjlIQ.jpg

It Matches the Southern Roman settlements and Towns, the Antonine Wall to the North, but Nothing in the Middle.

East Anglia shows the highest %, and is the region of Queen Boudica of the Iceni, who led an uprising of about 100-Thousand Spears against Rome, but ... (a great story).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudica

I’ve been told that those DNA Markers could have come into Italy with the Lombards, or the Normans.
It could be, but I doubt it; no German and no Scandinavian DNA % in this case.

I read now for the first time about Iceni, Boudica or Boadicea. Sound... Romanian for me.
The term Iceni struck me because it is meaningful in Romanian language! :cool-v:
Does anyone know if the word "Iceni" has other meaning in English?
- In Romanian it is used as a suffix in the name of many localities (like Topliceni, Dobriceni, Fălticeni, Băiceni, Urziceni, Voiniceni ...) (and even in the names of people in forms like "icean", "iceanu").
The meaning of -iceni in Romanian is (peoples) from here or from this place. I am not a linguist, but I think iceni comes in Romanian from the adverb aici (here) with the old forms ici, ice, icea, still used, from which the iceni suffix with the same meaning from here or from this place.
and even more :cool-v:...
- Romanian names similar with Boudica or Boadicea: Budica, Bădicea(this is also a locality), Badicean, Budicean, Bădiceanu.

What do you think that means?

Salento
07-11-18, 16:50
If words were not easy to pronounce or sounded too strange, a Romanization of the Names culd have occurred.
It happens all the time. For example, in the past in the United States, countless immigrants had their names changed at their port of entry by mistake, and sometimes by choice in order to sound more Americans.
Even today, to me personally is a daily thing, many people call me ...rio, I even get junk mail with that Name. That’s not my Name at all, LOL.
I stopped correcting it years ago to people, I gave up. All my neighbors, knows my real Name, but ...rio it’s easier for them.

gidai
07-11-18, 19:41
Salento, I think your argument could be a verry good explanation, but I have now looked at the localities and only one (Dobriceni) is on the territory controlled by the Romans in Dacia. And anyway, England has been under Roman occupation for much longer than Dacia but I do not know that such locality name exist there. That's why I think that it would not be excluded that tribe of Celts borrowed from Dacia the way to call themselves before the Roman conquests.

Salento
07-11-18, 20:16
Salento, I think your argument could be a verry good explanation, but I have now looked at the localities and only one (Dobriceni) is on the territory controlled by the Romans in Dacia. And anyway, England has been under Roman occupation for much longer than Dacia but I do not know that such locality name exist there. That's why I think that it would not be excluded that tribe of Celts borrowed from Dacia the way to call themselves before the Roman conquests.

You've probably already looked at it, but if someone else is curious:

... Kenneth Jackson concludes, based on later development of Welsh and Irish, that the name derives from the Proto-Celtic feminine adjective *boudīkā, "victorious", that in turn is derived from the Celtic word *boudā, "victory" (cf. Irish bua (Classical Irish buadh), Buaidheach, Welsh buddugoliaeth), and that the correct spelling of the name in Common Brittonic (the British Celtic language) is Boudica, pronounced Celtic pronunciation: . ....
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudica


.... Thomas Browne claims that the Iceni got their name from the [B]Iken, the old name for the River Ouse, where the Iceni were said to have originated. ...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceni

Salento
07-11-18, 21:42
@Davef you’re welcome :grin:

gidai
09-11-18, 14:35
... Kenneth Jackson concludes, based on later development of Welsh and Irish, that the name derives from the Proto-Celtic feminine adjective *boudīkā, "victorious", that in turn is derived from the Celtic word *boudā, "victory" (cf. Irish bua (Classical Irish buadh), Buaidheach, Welsh buddugoliaeth), and that the correct spelling of the name in Common Brittonic (the British Celtic language) is Boudica, pronounced Celtic pronunciation: . ....
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudica

Besides what I said before, now... the word buda, budă has a lot of meanings in Romanian. and his derivatives are many... Not being a specialist, this takes me with dizziness. :wtf:it's fantastic! Loool!
buda, bud[B]ă : to oppose, to keep away, shack, hut (even in the form of budică), name of people, rivers, localities, lakes... etc. https://dexonline.ro/definitie/buda/expandat (https://dexonline.ro/definitie/buda/expandat)
Because I am not an expert in linguistics, I may be wrong. But apart from being purely coincidental .... maybe the similarities are drawn from a common linguistic background that remained because the Celts stayed quite long in the area of today Romania.

Dibran
09-11-18, 17:50
First - Hello to everybody, my first post on this forum :- )


Here are my results from Living (my ancestry is mainly from Eastern and Western Thrace and to a lesser extent the Eastern Balkan mountains near the Black Sea..all ethnic Bulgarians).


Complete - SubRegions:


East Balkans- 22.4%
West Balkans - 11%
Pannonia - 10.1%
Northeast Europe - 5.6%
Mordovia - 3%
Baltics- 2.4%
South Italy-12.9%
Tuscany-10.9%
North Italy-3.4%
Aegean-3.1%
Germanic-8.4%
Pastun-4.5%
Kurdish-2.3%
..................


Standard - Sub Regions:


East Balkans- 22.4%
West Balkans - 11%
Pannonia - 10.1%
Northeast Europe - 5.6%
South Italy-12.9%
Tuscany-10.9%
Germanic-8.4%
Europe Unassigned-11.9%
Pashtun-4.5%
World Unassigned-2.3%
............


Cautious - Regional (this is the lowest level in this mode):


Northeast Europe-related ancestry - 49.1%
Tuscany-related ancestry-32.1%
Europe unassigned-11.9%
Pashtun related ancestry- 4.5%
World unassigned- 2.3%


I got 43% Italy/Greece on Ancestry ( and "Southeastern Europeans Genetic Community" with 95% confidence )


FTDNA gave me 74% Southeast Europe


23and me --- 5% Italian .


My Bulgarian matches on 23andme with 4 Bulgarian GrParents score between 2% and 14% Italian . My Greek matches with 4 Greek GrParents score between 3% and 43.3% Italian .

Nice. I haven't seen any other Balkan peoples beside myself and another Albanian and one Greek. Are you ethnic Bulgarian? Thats what I am assuming. Its nice to have another Balkan individuals percentages.

So far it seems Albanians have more Aegean ancestry. I get roughly 65 percent Aegean. Another Albanian I recall got similar. We only differed in the Balkan category. I got 7.5 West Balkan and they some percentage of East Balkan. Aegean seems to cover most of Albania and Greece. Though, I am uncertain what the exact references for each category are.

Gabriele Pashaj
09-11-18, 17:53
Nice. I haven't seen any other Balkan peoples beside myself and another Albanian and one Greek. Are you ethnic Bulgarian? Thats what I am assuming. Its nice to have another Balkan individuals percentages.

So far it seems Albanians have more Aegean ancestry. I get roughly 65 percent Aegean. Another Albanian I recall got similar. We only differed in the Balkan category. I got 7.5 West Balkan and they some percentage of East Balkan. Aegean seems to cover most of Albania and Greece. Though, I am uncertain what the exact references for each category are.
I have too 65 % of aegean in living dna☺️

gidai
09-11-18, 18:20
User
Country
Region
East Balkans
West Balkans

Pannonia
Total SEE
Baltics
NE Euro
Fin.,Russia
Mordovia
Total NEE
Aegean
North Italy
Tuscany
South Italy
Sardinia
Iberia
Basque
Total SE
NWE - GB
France
Germanic
Scandinavia
England,Wales
Scotland,Ireland
Total NWE
Armenia,Cyprus
North Turkey
South Turkey
Kurdish
Iran
Caucasus
Levant
Arabia
Total WA
Pashtun
Sindh
Total SA
Siberia
Mongolia,Manchuria
Northeast China
North China
South China
Southwest China
Japan and Korea
Southeast Asia
Total EA
Euro Unassigned
Y-DNA
mtDNA


1
Romania
East
0.0%
0.0%

0.0%
0.0%
3.6%
32.7%
4.8%
4.0%
45.1%
22.1%
3.8%
1.6%
2.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
29.5%
9.4%
9.4%
0.0%
0.0%
8.7%
0.0%
18.1%
0.0%
2.8%
1.5%
1.6%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
5.9%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
1.4%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
1.4%
0.0%
I2a-S17250
T2a1b1a


2
Romania
South
57.0%
3.0%

3.0%
63.0%
0.0%
2.0%
0.0%
0.0%
2.0%
5.0%
0.0%
4.8%
5.0%
0.0%
1.2%
0.0%
16.0%
10.3%
6.0%
3.0%
1.3%
8.7%
0.0%
19.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
G2a-P303
X2e1b


3
Romania
South/West
36.8%
3.6%

4.1%
44.5%
4.7%
0.0%
0.0%
1.6%
6.3%
12.2%
3.8%
8.9%
0.0%
0.0%
3.8%
0.0%
28.7%
2.6%
1.3%
1.3%
0.0%
16.3%
0.0%
18.9%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
1.6%
0.0%
0.0%
1.6%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%




4
Serbia
South
43.7%
7.1%

1.2%
52.0%
8.1%
1.5%
1.9%
0.0%
11.5%
4.7%
4.9%
13.0%
0.0%
0.0%
1.0%
0.0%
23.6%
7.0%
4.2%
0.0%
2.8%
1.9%
0.0%
8.9%
0.0%
2.4%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
1.6%
0.0%
4.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%




5
Serbia
East
9.9%
13.5%

32.5%
55.9%
0.0%
12.9%
1.6%
2.4%
16.9%
0.0%
2.1%
8.5%
2.6%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
13.2%
7.5%
4.6%
0.0%
2.9%
3.5%
0.0%
11.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
2.8%
0.0%
0.0%
2.8%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%




6
Bulgaria
N/A
13.0%
8.0%

6.0%
27.0%
2.0%
5.0%
6.0%
0.0%
13.0%
34.0%
13.0%
1.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
48.0%
3.0%
0.0%
3.0%
0.0%
8.0%
0.0%
11.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
1.0%
1.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%




7
Bulgaria
N/A
18.0%
4.0%

14.0%
36.0%
3.0%
8.0%
0.0%
3.0%
14.0%
12.0%
6.0%
2.0%
12.0%
0.0%
5.0%
0.0%
37.0%
7.0%
3.0%
3.0%
1.0%
3.0%
0.0%
10.0%
0.0%
1.0%
0.0%
1.0%
0.0%
1.0%
0.0%
0.0%
3.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%




8
Bulgaria
N/A
22.4%
11.0%

10.1%
43.5%
2.4%
5.6%
0.0%
3.0%
11.0%
3.1%
3.4%
10.9%
12.9%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
30.3%
8.4%
0.0%
8.4%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
8.4%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
2.3%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
2.3%
4.5%
0.0%
4.5%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%




9
Greece
North/South
43.9%
0.0%

0.0%
43.9%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
14.0%
11.1%
0.0%
3.4%
0.0%
28.5%
3.5%
3.5%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
3.5%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
11.0%
0.0%
6.5%
0.0%
17.5%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
1.9%




10
Greece
North/South
5.5%
1.6%

1.5%
8.6%
0.0%
1.3%
0.0%
0.0%
1.3%
44.1%
3.5%
13.4%
12.3%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
73.3%
12.2%
8.0%
2.4%
1.8%
4.5%
0.0%
16.7%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%




11
Greece
North/South
14.0%
0.0%

0.0%
14.0%
2.0%
0.0%
2.0%
0.0%
4.0%
30.5%
0.0%
10.0%
17.9%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
58.4%
11.9%
3.2%
2.7%
6.0%
1.8%
0.0%
13.7%
0.0%
6.3%
0.0%
1.3%
0.0%
0.0%
2.1%
0.0%
9.7%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%

A1a


12
Greece
South
2.0%
0.0%

2.1%
4.1%
0.0%
0.0%
1.2%
0.0%
1.2%
44.2%
0.0%
11.3%
16.6%
1.7%
1.9%
0.0%
75.7%
7.5%
2.7%
1.4%
3.4%
5.6%
0.0%
13.1%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
2.3%
3.6%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
5.9%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
J1-PF7263
H1


13
Albania
North
0.0%
7.5%

0.0%
7.5%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
65.2%
6.7%
3.0%
4.0%
1.5%
0.0%
0.0%
80.4%
1.3%
0.0%
0.0%
1.3%
6.7%
0.0%
8.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
2.1%
2.1%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
1.9%
R1a-L1029*
H11a2*


14
Albania
South
6.4%
0.0%

0.0%
6.4%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
64.5%
1.3%
7.0%
0.0%
1.5%
0.0%
0.0%
74.3%
3.6%
1.2%
2.4%
0.0%
6.9%
0.0%
10.5%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
2.5%
0.0%
0.0%
2.5%
2.9%
0.0%
2.9%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
3.4%

I-CTS10228
H-15


15
Albania
North
6.2%
12.1%

0.0%
18.3%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
59.0%
7.8%
12.8%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
79.6%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
2.1%
0.0%
2.1%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
E-V13>FGC33625
U1a1a




































































































































































Results from the Balkans distributed in different forum posts.

Dibran
09-11-18, 20:48
......Results from the Balkans distributed in different forum posts.

User
Country
Region
East Balkans
West Balkans

Pannonia
Total SEE
Baltics
NE Euro
Fin.,Russia
Mordovia
Total NEE
Aegean
North Italy
Tuscany
South Italy
Sardinia
Iberia
Basque
Total SE
NWE - GB
France
Germanic
Scandinavia
England,Wales
Scotland,Ireland
Total NWE
Armenia,Cyprus
North Turkey
South Turkey
Kurdish
Iran
Caucasus
Levant
Arabia
Total WA
Pashtun
Sindh
Total SA
Siberia
Mongolia,Manchuria
Northeast China
North China
South China
Southwest China
Japan and Korea
Southeast Asia
Total EA
Euro Unassigned
Y-DNA
mtDNA


1
Romania
East
0.0%
0.0%

0.0%
0.0%
3.6%
32.7%
4.8%
4.0%
45.1%
22.1%
3.8%
1.6%
2.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
29.5%
9.4%
9.4%
0.0%
0.0%
8.7%
0.0%
18.1%
0.0%
2.8%
1.5%
1.6%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
5.9%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
1.4%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
1.4%
0.0%
I2a-S17250
T2a1b1a


2
Romania
South
57.0%
3.0%

3.0%
63.0%
0.0%
2.0%
0.0%
0.0%
2.0%
5.0%
0.0%
4.8%
5.0%
0.0%
1.2%
0.0%
16.0%
10.3%
6.0%
3.0%
1.3%
8.7%
0.0%
19.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
G2a-P303
X2e1b


3
Romania
South/West
36.8%
3.6%

4.1%
44.5%
4.7%
0.0%
0.0%
1.6%
6.3%
12.2%
3.8%
8.9%
0.0%
0.0%
3.8%
0.0%
28.7%
2.6%
1.3%
1.3%
0.0%
16.3%
0.0%
18.9%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
1.6%
0.0%
0.0%
1.6%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%




4
Serbia
South
43.7%
7.1%

1.2%
52.0%
8.1%
1.5%
1.9%
0.0%
11.5%
4.7%
4.9%
13.0%
0.0%
0.0%
1.0%
0.0%
23.6%
7.0%
4.2%
0.0%
2.8%
1.9%
0.0%
8.9%
0.0%
2.4%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
1.6%
0.0%
4.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%




5
Serbia
East
9.9%
13.5%

32.5%
55.9%
0.0%
12.9%
1.6%
2.4%
16.9%
0.0%
2.1%
8.5%
2.6%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
13.2%
7.5%
4.6%
0.0%
2.9%
3.5%
0.0%
11.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
2.8%
0.0%
0.0%
2.8%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%




6
Bulgaria
N/A
13.0%
8.0%

6.0%
27.0%
2.0%
5.0%
6.0%
0.0%
13.0%
34.0%
13.0%
1.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
48.0%
3.0%
0.0%
3.0%
0.0%
8.0%
0.0%
11.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
1.0%
1.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%




7
Bulgaria
N/A
18.0%
4.0%

14.0%
36.0%
3.0%
8.0%
0.0%
3.0%
14.0%
12.0%
6.0%
2.0%
12.0%
0.0%
5.0%
0.0%
37.0%
7.0%
3.0%
3.0%
1.0%
3.0%
0.0%
10.0%
0.0%
1.0%
0.0%
1.0%
0.0%
1.0%
0.0%
0.0%
3.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%




8
Bulgaria
N/A
22.4%
11.0%

10.1%
43.5%
2.4%
5.6%
0.0%
3.0%
11.0%
3.1%
3.4%
10.9%
12.9%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
30.3%
8.4%
0.0%
8.4%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
8.4%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
2.3%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
2.3%
4.5%
0.0%
4.5%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%




9
Greece
North/South
43.9%
0.0%

0.0%
43.9%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
14.0%
11.1%
0.0%
3.4%
0.0%
28.5%
3.5%
3.5%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
3.5%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
11.0%
0.0%
6.5%
0.0%
17.5%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
1.9%




10
Greece
North/South
5.5%
1.6%

1.5%
8.6%
0.0%
1.3%
0.0%
0.0%
1.3%
44.1%
3.5%
13.4%
12.3%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
73.3%
12.2%
8.0%
2.4%
1.8%
4.5%
0.0%
16.7%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%




11
Greece
North/South
14.0%
0.0%

0.0%
14.0%
2.0%
0.0%
2.0%
0.0%
4.0%
30.5%
0.0%
10.0%
17.9%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
58.4%
11.9%
3.2%
2.7%
6.0%
1.8%
0.0%
13.7%
0.0%
6.3%
0.0%
1.3%
0.0%
0.0%
2.1%
0.0%
9.7%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%

A1a


12
Greece
South
2.0%
0.0%

2.1%
4.1%
0.0%
0.0%
1.2%
0.0%
1.2%
44.2%
0.0%
11.3%
16.6%
1.7%
1.9%
0.0%
75.7%
7.5%
2.7%
1.4%
3.4%
5.6%
0.0%
13.1%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
2.3%
3.6%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
5.9%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
J1-PF7263
H1


13
Albania
North
0.0%
7.5%

0.0%
7.5%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
65.2%
6.7%
3.0%
4.0%
1.5%
0.0%
0.0%
80.4%
1.3%
0.0%
0.0%
1.3%
6.7%
0.0%
8.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
2.1%
2.1%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
1.9%
R1a-L1029*
H11a2*


14
Albania
South
6.4%
0.0%

0.0%
6.4%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
64.5%
1.3%
7.0%
0.0%
1.5%
0.0%
0.0%
74.3%
3.6%
1.2%
2.4%
0.0%
6.9%
0.0%
10.5%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
2.5%
0.0%
0.0%
2.5%
2.9%
0.0%
2.9%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
3.4%




15
Albania
North
6.2%
12.1%

0.0%
18.3%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
59.0%
7.8%
12.8%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
79.6%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
2.1%
0.0%
2.1%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
E-V13>FGC33625
U1a1a






































































































































































I am number 13. I am Northern Albanian. Corrected it. Added nun haplogroups as we’ll.

Dibran
09-11-18, 20:52
I have too 65 % of aegean in living dna☺️

Oh cool. Have you posted your results? Not sure I have seen them. You should post it here. Maybe Gidai can add you to the list.

mihaitzateo
11-11-18, 16:04
User
Country
Region
East Balkans
West Balkans

Pannonia
Total SEE
Baltics
NE Euro
Fin.,Russia
Mordovia
Total NEE
Aegean
North Italy
Tuscany
South Italy
Sardinia
Iberia
Basque
Total SE
NWE - GB
France
Germanic
Scandinavia
England,Wales
Scotland,Ireland
Total NWE
Armenia,Cyprus
North Turkey
South Turkey
Kurdish
Iran
Caucasus
Levant
Arabia
Total WA
Pashtun
Sindh
Total SA
Siberia
Mongolia,Manchuria
Northeast China
North China
South China
Southwest China
Japan and Korea
Southeast Asia
Total EA
Euro Unassigned
Y-DNA
mtDNA


1
Romania
East
0.0%
0.0%

0.0%
0.0%
3.6%
32.7%
4.8%
4.0%
45.1%
22.1%
3.8%
1.6%
2.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
29.5%
9.4%
9.4%
0.0%
0.0%
8.7%
0.0%
18.1%
0.0%
2.8%
1.5%
1.6%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
5.9%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
1.4%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
1.4%
0.0%
I2a-S17250
T2a1b1a


2
Romania
South
57.0%
3.0%

3.0%
63.0%
0.0%
2.0%
0.0%
0.0%
2.0%
5.0%
0.0%
4.8%
5.0%
0.0%
1.2%
0.0%
16.0%
10.3%
6.0%
3.0%
1.3%
8.7%
0.0%
19.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
G2a-P303
X2e1b


3
Romania
South/West
36.8%
3.6%

4.1%
44.5%
4.7%
0.0%
0.0%
1.6%
6.3%
12.2%
3.8%
8.9%
0.0%
0.0%
3.8%
0.0%
28.7%
2.6%
1.3%
1.3%
0.0%
16.3%
0.0%
18.9%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
1.6%
0.0%
0.0%
1.6%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%




4
Serbia
South
43.7%
7.1%

1.2%
52.0%
8.1%
1.5%
1.9%
0.0%
11.5%
4.7%
4.9%
13.0%
0.0%
0.0%
1.0%
0.0%
23.6%
7.0%
4.2%
0.0%
2.8%
1.9%
0.0%
8.9%
0.0%
2.4%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
1.6%
0.0%
4.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%




5
Serbia
East
9.9%
13.5%

32.5%
55.9%
0.0%
12.9%
1.6%
2.4%
16.9%
0.0%
2.1%
8.5%
2.6%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
13.2%
7.5%
4.6%
0.0%
2.9%
3.5%
0.0%
11.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
2.8%
0.0%
0.0%
2.8%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%




6
Bulgaria
N/A
13.0%
8.0%

6.0%
27.0%
2.0%
5.0%
6.0%
0.0%
13.0%
34.0%
13.0%
1.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
48.0%
3.0%
0.0%
3.0%
0.0%
8.0%
0.0%
11.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
1.0%
1.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%




7
Bulgaria
N/A
18.0%
4.0%

14.0%
36.0%
3.0%
8.0%
0.0%
3.0%
14.0%
12.0%
6.0%
2.0%
12.0%
0.0%
5.0%
0.0%
37.0%
7.0%
3.0%
3.0%
1.0%
3.0%
0.0%
10.0%
0.0%
1.0%
0.0%
1.0%
0.0%
1.0%
0.0%
0.0%
3.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%




8
Bulgaria
N/A
22.4%
11.0%

10.1%
43.5%
2.4%
5.6%
0.0%
3.0%
11.0%
3.1%
3.4%
10.9%
12.9%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
30.3%
8.4%
0.0%
8.4%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
8.4%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
2.3%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
2.3%
4.5%
0.0%
4.5%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%




9
Greece
North/South
43.9%
0.0%

0.0%
43.9%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
14.0%
11.1%
0.0%
3.4%
0.0%
28.5%
3.5%
3.5%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
3.5%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
11.0%
0.0%
6.5%
0.0%
17.5%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
1.9%




10
Greece
North/South
5.5%
1.6%

1.5%
8.6%
0.0%
1.3%
0.0%
0.0%
1.3%
44.1%
3.5%
13.4%
12.3%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
73.3%
12.2%
8.0%
2.4%
1.8%
4.5%
0.0%
16.7%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%




11
Greece
North/South
14.0%
0.0%

0.0%
14.0%
2.0%
0.0%
2.0%
0.0%
4.0%
30.5%
0.0%
10.0%
17.9%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
58.4%
11.9%
3.2%
2.7%
6.0%
1.8%
0.0%
13.7%
0.0%
6.3%
0.0%
1.3%
0.0%
0.0%
2.1%
0.0%
9.7%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%

A1a


12
Greece
South
2.0%
0.0%

2.1%
4.1%
0.0%
0.0%
1.2%
0.0%
1.2%
44.2%
0.0%
11.3%
16.6%
1.7%
1.9%
0.0%
75.7%
7.5%
2.7%
1.4%
3.4%
5.6%
0.0%
13.1%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
2.3%
3.6%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
5.9%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
J1-PF7263
H1


13
Albania
North
0.0%
7.5%

0.0%
7.5%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
65.2%
6.7%
3.0%
4.0%
1.5%
0.0%
0.0%
80.4%
1.3%
0.0%
0.0%
1.3%
6.7%
0.0%
8.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
2.1%
2.1%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
1.9%




14
Albania
South
6.4%
0.0%

0.0%
6.4%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
64.5%
1.3%
7.0%
0.0%
1.5%
0.0%
0.0%
74.3%
3.6%
1.2%
2.4%
0.0%
6.9%
0.0%
10.5%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
2.5%
0.0%
0.0%
2.5%
2.9%
0.0%
2.9%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
3.4%




15
Albania
North
6.2%
12.1%

0.0%
18.3%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
59.0%
7.8%
12.8%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
79.6%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
2.1%
0.0%
2.1%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
0.0%
E-V13>FGC33625
U1a1a




































































































































































Results from the Balkans distributed in different forum posts.

Similarity with South Italy can be from common Greek ancestry.
Similarity with North Italy, not only Italic, but also East Germanics and Gauls/Celtic people.
Central Italy, mostly Romans, indeed.
SW Romania was occupied by Roman Empire, so higher clustering to Tuscany makes a lot of sense.

Lol, someone from SW Romania scoring 16.3% similarity to England and Wales.
Seems that Celts from Romania were related to Welsh Celts.

gidai
11-11-18, 17:34
Similarity with South Italy can be from common Greek ancestry.
Similarity with North Italy, not only Italic, but also East Germanics and Gauls/Celtic people.
Central Italy, mostly Romans, indeed.
SW Romania was occupied by Roman Empire, so higher clustering to Tuscany makes a lot of sense.

Lol, someone from SW Romania scoring 16.3% similarity to England and Wales.
Seems that Celts from Romania were related to Welsh Celts.

Indeed, it seems that Romania has the highest similarity to England and NW Europe in the Balkans. However, only three tests are few and those from LDNA are known to inflate the proportion of England.
Number 3 had a great-grandmother who was Austrian. Number 2 is mine with a lot of Balkans. Number one is from the eastern area of Romania, and in another test, that he made I think that with My Heritage, he has 90% Balkans... not 0%! So also the "Balkans", no matter what It mean, seems to be strong in Romania.

Salento
12-11-18, 02:13
Roman Troops Statistics + Reserves in the 1st Period and where the Soldiers came from:


Roman Troops Statistic in the 1st Period.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171203/afa688274bb397e4c8759dc78bdd9a7d.jpg

I translated this into English from old fashioned Italian, feel free to object if you believe it is incorrect.
.......
Roman Statistic

In Rome, a Corp of 20.000 Infantry and 1.500 Cavalry, sorted from Roman Citizens, and furthermore 30.000 foot soldiers, and 2.000 Cavalryman taken from the allies were kept ready.
The list of population and of recruitment provides:
Among the Latins, 80.000 Infantry, and 5.000 horses;
Within the Samnites 70.000 Infantry and 7.000 horses;
Within the Japigi and the Messapi, 50.000 men on foot and 16.000 Cavalry;
Within the Lucani 30.000 Infantry and 3.000 Cavalry;
Within the Marsi, the Marrucini, the Frentani, and the Vestini, 20.000 Infantry and 4.000 Cavalry.

Furthermore, The Romans had 2 Legions each of 4.200 Infantrymen and 200 Cavalry in Sicily and in Taranto.

Finally, listed as able for war in the population of Rome and the countryside, 250.000 men on foot and 23.000 Cavalry.

Total of the Military Forces available to the Romans:
Infantry 699.200
Cavalry 69.100

Polibio rounded up the number:
Infantry 700.000
Cavalry 70.000
..........


Maps Posted by Jovialis (thanks :smile:):

https://i.imgur.com/SZIm4LF.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/GbGIgUw.jpg

mihaitzateo
14-11-18, 23:40
Roman Troops Statistics + Reserves in the 1st Period and where the Soldiers came from:



Maps Posted by Jovialis (thanks :smile:):

https://i.imgur.com/SZIm4LF.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/GbGIgUw.jpg
This map is very interesting.
According to this map and according to other info from inet, in Tuscany there should be some Etruscan influence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruscan_civilization#Genetic_research
From a genetic point of view on Wiki is told old Etruscans were most close to today Germans.

Gabriele Pashaj
02-12-18, 00:01
Oh cool. Have you posted your results? Not sure I have seen them. You should post it here. Maybe Gidai can add you to the list.
Hi Dibran! The sample that stands for ‘Albania south’ is just me :)

Gabriele Pashaj
02-12-18, 00:02
https://my.livingdna.com/share/0a0c2050-7fb1-11e8-bc96-0a3d0dc18df0

Gabriele Pashaj
02-12-18, 00:05
https://my.livingdna.com/share/33493357-cdf0-4be9-8b13-902fa1c3f41c

These are my father’s results ... maybe I posted them in another thread but I do not remember

Dibran
03-12-18, 16:13
It does seem the dots are individualized. I am noticing our ancestors map for 500 years ago is different between us.