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Angela
28-08-17, 17:25
See:
The maternal genetic make-up of the Iberian Peninsula between the Neolithic andthe Early Bronze Age

Anna Szécsényi-Nagy et al (including Guido Brandt and Wolfgang Haak)

http://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2017/08/21/106963.full.pdf

"Agriculture first reached the Iberian Peninsula around 5700 BCE. However, little is known about the genetic structure and changes of prehistoric populations in different geographic areas of Iberia. In our study, we focused on the maternal genetic makeup of the Neolithic (~ 5500-3000 BCE), Chalcolithic (~ 3000-2200 BCE) and Early Bronze Age (~ 2200-1500 BCE). We report ancient mitochondrial DNA results of 213 individuals (151 HVS-I sequences) from the northeast, central, southeast and southwest regions and thus on the largest archaeogenetic dataset from the Peninsula to date. Similar to other parts of Europe, we observe a discontinuity between hunter-gatherers and the first farmers of the Neolithic. During the subsequent periods, we detect regional continuity of Early Neolithic lineages across Iberia, however the genetic contribution of hunter-gatherers is generally higher than in other parts of Europe and varies regionally. In contrast to ancient DNA findings from Central Europe, we do not observe a major turnover in the mtDNA record of the Iberian Late Chalcolithic and Early Bronze Age, suggesting that the population history of the Iberian Peninsula is distinct in character."

Well, from my cursory first reading of the paper, the hg mtDna is more than in Central Europe, but there's still not very much of it. That roughly 20% autosomal hg present in European populations of the late Neolithic/Chalcolithic seems to have owed more to incorporation of male hunter/gatherers than female hunter-gatherers, if we can extrapolate from the increasing appearance of I2a among the European farmers.

It also appears that there was no movement into Iberia of more "steppe like" women as of 1500 BC.

MOESAN
28-08-17, 20:21
the meager or absent "steppic" new mt-DNA points for Iberia to an almost strictly male contribution from Steppes at (late?) bronze ages; we can imagine their acquired females (non-steppic by origin) were acquired by them during penetration westwards along the road and not only at the end of their journey, in Iberia (this late case only for Basques?).

Milan.M
28-08-17, 20:53
The major flow of steppe like DNA in southern Europe(Iberia,Italy and Balkans) in my opinion for right now will be late bronze age,bronze age collapse,beginning of iron age onwards.That is when major disturbing happened,so called migration period brought little change,time will tell us.

Angela
28-08-17, 21:13
The major flow of steppe like DNA in southern Europe(Iberia,Italy and Balkans) in my opinion for right now will be late bronze age,bronze age collapse,beginning of iron age onwards.That is when major disturbing happened,so called migration period brought little change,time will tell us.

I tend to agree with you, with perhaps an exception for northern Italy and into Tuscany for the Lombards, although the changes were probably not very significant. Only ancient dna can tell us.

The issue, I think, is that by the time these movements arrived in southern Europe they were already very mixed with EEF like ancestry themselves. I've been saying that for years. Now, that speculation will be put to the test. :)

Ygorbr
29-08-17, 02:17
I still wonder what genetic research on ancient DNA of individuals in Chalcolithic and Bronze Age France could tell us. Seldom do I see studies on the human landscape of ancient France, despite the fact that it was, at least in historic periods (think of the expansion of Romans, Gauls, Goths), a natural way from Central and from Southeastern Europe into Northwestern Europe and the Iberian Peninsula. It's also a huge territory (second only to the Ukraine, setting Russia aside) linking the British Isles, Italy, Germany/North Sea and Iberia. Indo-Europeans should've go through France, hundreds and hundreds of kilometers, to conquer lands in Iberia. Why is France so overlooked in this debate, can you clarify it?

It wouldn't surprise me that France was in some way the "intermediate" stage for many Indo-European peoples who colonized Western Europe, diluting their Steppe admixture and perhaps even mixing with other different Steppe-derived waves that came through other route (e.g. one wave from Southeastern Europe, another from North-Central Europe). The fact that, according to that recent study on Iberian Bronze Age autosomes, there was a minor contribution of EHG without noticeable CHG can indicate that there was another heavily mixed population that had a different demographic history in comparison with the Corded Ware and especially the Proto-Greeks.

holderlin
29-08-17, 21:53
The major flow of steppe like DNA in southern Europe(Iberia,Italy and Balkans) in my opinion for right now will be late bronze age,bronze age collapse,beginning of iron age onwards.That is when major disturbing happened,so called migration period brought little change,time will tell us.

I think this is probably true. It's probably the movement of the Celts and Latins into their historic seats.