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Maciamo
26-09-17, 19:35
Interesting study. It might be possible to identify psychopaths based on their musical preferences.

The Guardian: Playlist of the Lambs: psychopaths may have distinct musical preferences (https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/sep/26/playlist-of-the-lambs-psychopaths-prefer-rap-over-classical-music-study-shows)

"Contrary to the movie trope epitomised by Alex in A Clockwork Orange and Hannibal Lecter in the Silence of the Lambs, psychopaths are no fonder of classical music than anyone else, though they do appear to have other musical preferences, psychologists say.

In a study of 200 people who listened to 260 songs, those with the highest psychopath scores were among the greatest fans of the Blackstreet number one hit No Diggity, with Eminem’s Lose Yourself rated highly too.

The New York University team behind the work stress that the results are preliminary and unpublished, but the scientists are sufficiently intrigued to launch a major study in which thousands of people across the psychopathy spectrum will be quizzed on their musical tastes.

Tests on a second group of volunteers suggest the songs could help to predict the disorder. Whatever their other personality traits might be, fans of The Knack’s My Sharona and Sia’s Titanium were among the least psychopathic, the study found.

[...]

About 1% of the general population meets the description of a psychopath, but the figure is far higher in prisons, where about one in five has the disorder. One estimate, from Kent Kiehl, a psychologist at the University of New Mexico, suggests that psychopaths cost the US government alone $460bn (£340bn) a year.

The larger study will now investigate whether the link between musical tastes and psychopathy is real, and if it is, whether groups of songs can predict potential psychopaths. That could lead to some controversial applications, Wallisch said. If the team can identify a group of 30 songs, for example, that together prove good at predicting psychopaths, then playlists from online music providers could be used to identify them.

“The beauty of this idea is you can use it as a screening test without consent, cooperation or maybe even the knowledge of the people involved,” Wallisch said. “The ethics of this are very hairy, but so is having a psychopath as a boss, and so is having a psychopath in any position of power.” Fortunately for ethicists, the possibility is some way off yet. “This work is very preliminary,” Wallisch added. “This is not the end of an investigation, it is the very beginning.”

Kevin Dutton, a psychologist at Oxford, and the author of The Wisdom of Psychopaths, has been gathering data on musical tastes and other preferences for a psychopath study with Channel 4. More than three million people have responded so far, and while online surveys have serious weaknesses, the results so far suggest psychopaths favour rap music over classical and jazz. They also seem more likely to read the Financial Times than other newspapers."



I have always hated rap with a passion. I can't say that for any other musical genre. I have really listened to everything from classical to techno and from traditional folk music to hard rock. I rarely listen to music of any kind nowadays though (I just replay in my head my favourite tunes as I have a good auditive memory).

ihype02
26-09-17, 21:25
How fitting.

LeBrok
27-09-17, 02:58
Perhaps, rap is more prevalent in US jails, because inmates are mostly black, but in Europe heavy metal might be their choice. No?

Jovialis
27-09-17, 03:04
Perhaps, rap is more prevalent in US jails, because inmates are mostly black, but in Europe heavy metal might be their choice. No?

This article suggests that fans of Classical music, and Heavy metal have similar dispositions. I've been to a lot of metal concerts, and people into metal are usually fans of classical music as well. Also, many of them seem to be interested in subjects like history, or STEM related fields I've noticed. They're not psychotic, but rather are into over the top and dramatic themes. Many love complexity of the music, and are very "left-brain" oriented.


Metal (https://www.theguardian.com/music/metal) fans, like classical listeners, tend to be creative, gentle people, at ease with themselves. "We think the answer is that both types of music, classical and heavy metal, have something of the spiritual about them — they're very dramatic — a lot happens," North said to the BBC.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2008/sep/08/classical.metal.fans.study



Edit: I think metal-lyric writers have more of a fascination with psychopaths, than psychopaths have with metal.

LeBrok
27-09-17, 03:19
This article suggests that fans of Classical music, and Heavy metal have similar dispositions. I've been to a lot of metal concerts, and people into metal are usually fans of classical music as well. Also, many of them seem to be interested in subjects like history, I've noticed. They're not psychotic, but are into over the top and dramatic themes. Did they narrow it down to what classical music? There are so many styles.
I had some employees who liked heavy metal and hard rock. I think they were rather emotional people, with propensity to addictions, and often "explosive" in action. But not really psychopathic like people. Well, everything very generally speaking. Just some observation.

Jovialis
27-09-17, 03:42
Did they narrow it down to what classical music? There are so many styles.
I had some employees who liked heavy metal and hard rock. I think they were rather emotional people, with propensity to addictions, and often "explosive" in action. But not really psychopathic like people. Well, everything very generally speaking. Just some observation.

Here's the original study, but unfortunately all I can see is a preview:


https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.5406/amerjpsyc.123.2.0199?seq=1#

Abstract Several studies have investigated the relationship between (usually a narrow set of) personality dimensions and liking for a small number of individual musical styles. To date there has been no attempt to investigate, within a single methodology, the extent to which personality factors correlate with liking for a very wide range of musical styles. To address this, 36,518 participants rated their liking for 104 musical styles, completed a short form of the Big 5 personality inventory, and provided other data about their favorite musical styles. Personality factors were related to both liking for the musical styles and participants’ reasons for listening to this music. However, on the whole these latter variables were related more closely to participants’ age, sex, and income than to Big 5 scores. Thus, personality is related to musical taste, but other individual differences are arguably related more closely.

It seems that substance abuse is a prevalent issue in many youth cultures, and metal is no exception. But from what I noticed, it is mainly alcohol when it comes to metal. I think narcissism is also an attribute I've noticed in metal as well.

Angela
27-09-17, 04:06
Perhaps, rap is more prevalent in US jails, because inmates are mostly black, but in Europe heavy metal might be their choice. No?

This is why I am getting very jaundiced about social psych type studies. There are too many variables that they don't consider.

It's a delusion to think that prisons are full of genius criminal minds. In local and state prisons, in particular, the profile is lower class, uneducated, disproportionately black from inner city slums. When would they have been exposed to classical music or traditional folk music?

They listen to rap. That's what they know. Correlation is not causation. They have to control for all sorts of variables, and test all over the world before they come to any conclusions, and even then they should be cautious.

I'm sure that in the 1920s a lot of them listened to blues or jazz. Now, it's effete white people like me, I bet, who listen to it regularly.

The problem with rap for me is that it's all about male anger, at least since the very early days. That's a function not of the "form", which actually is barely musical, but of the content.

All of that said, I think a lot of Eminem's lyrics are quite profound and moving, even if expressed in a way that doesn't appeal to me.

davef
27-09-17, 04:18
This is why I am getting very jaundiced about social psych type studies. There are too many variables that they don't consider.

It's a delusion to think that prisons are full of genius criminal minds. In local and state prisons, in particular, the profile is lower class, uneducated, disproportionately black from inner city slums. When would they have been exposed to classical music or traditional folk music?

They listen to rap. That's what they know. Correlation is not causation. They have to control for all sorts of variables, and test all over the world before they come to any conclusions, and even then they should be cautious.

I'm sure that in the 1920s a lot of them listened to blues or jazz. Now, it's effete white people like me, I bet, who listen to it regularly.

The problem with rap for me is that it's all about male anger, at least since the very early days. That's a function not of the "form", which actually is barely musical, but of the content.

All of that said, I think a lot of Eminem's lyrics are quite profound and moving, even if expressed in a way that doesn't appeal to me.

Effete!!
I swear, almost every time you post something new here, I find myself googling a new word I've never heard before! Thanks for expanding my vocab!

Angela
27-09-17, 04:27
I should have added that I wouldn't describe myself that way. :)

I'm sure that's how neo-Nazis would see me and people like me, however, at least the intellectual ones, if that isn't an oxymoron.

I should also add that on average people who really like current rap music might be more violent etc., but it's not a function of the music form per se, in my opinion, but of where it arose, who performs it, and their "emotional" state.

Ed. Oxymoron-contradictory terms, i.e. neo-Nazi and intellectual. :)

LeBrok
27-09-17, 04:46
Effete!!
I swear, almost every time you post something new here, I find myself googling a new word I've never heard before! Thanks for expanding my vocab!
I bet it was "jazz". ;)

@Angela
I do like couple of M&M songs.

LeBrok
27-09-17, 04:50
I should have added that I wouldn't describe myself that way. :)

I'm sure that's how neo-Nazis would see me and people like me, however, at least the intellectual ones, if that isn't an oxymoron.

I should also add that on average people who really like current rap music might be more violent etc., but it's not a function of the music form per se, in my opinion, but of where it arose, who performs it, and their "emotional" state.

Ed. Oxymoron-contradictory terms, i.e. neo-Nazi and intellectual. :) I wish they pin it down to melody versus beat-rhythm versus lyrics.

Jovialis
27-09-17, 05:09
This is why I am getting very jaundiced about social psych type studies. There are too many variables that they don't consider.

It's a delusion to think that prisons are full of genius criminal minds. In local and state prisons, in particular, the profile is lower class, uneducated, disproportionately black from inner city slums. When would they have been exposed to classical music or traditional folk music?

They listen to rap. That's what they know. Correlation is not causation. They have to control for all sorts of variables, and test all over the world before they come to any conclusions, and even then they should be cautious.

I'm sure that in the 1920s a lot of them listened to blues or jazz. Now, it's effete white people like me, I bet, who listen to it regularly.

The problem with rap for me is that it's all about male anger, at least since the very early days. That's a function not of the "form", which actually is barely musical, but of the content.

All of that said, I think a lot of Eminem's lyrics are quite profound and moving, even if expressed in a way that doesn't appeal to me.

I share your sentiments about the study, and the high probability that much of it may be skewed by disadvantaged African-Americans, in prison who happen to grow up listening to hip hop.

But an interesting thing to note, is that the largest portion of hip hop consumers are actually white. Perhaps they also contribute to the population of psychopaths that are attracted to hip hop as well.

Data from different years all put white in the majority of consumers. But not much of a surprises since white is the majority population in the country. Nevertheless, this is of consumers, but the number of actual listeners, via YouTube, or other means may be different. I would imagine people who are poorer would just burn a CD or make a mix tape back then.


http://www.rbr.com/hip-hop-consumers-and-retail/
https://i.imgur.com/IH7Cwr9.png



In 2004 Mediamark Research Inc. estimated that closer to 60 percent of rap music consumers were white. While that’s still substantial, it’s much lower than the rumored 80 percent that has been floating around for over twenty years.

Of the approximately 64 million Americans between age 15 and 30, about 73 percent of them are white. So if 60 percent of rap consumers were white in 2004, they represented a significantly lower number than their share of the population—meaning the Blacks and Hispanics in remaining 40 percent were significantly higher than their share of the overall U.S. population.
In others words, whites were underrepresented among rap consumers and Blacks and Hispanics were over-represented.
http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/11/06/really-listening/

davef
27-09-17, 05:33
I should have added that I wouldn't describe myself that way. :)
I'm sure that's how neo-Nazis would see me and people like me, however, at least the intellectual ones, if that isn't an oxymoron.
I should also add that on average people who really like current rap music might be more violent etc., but it's not a function of the music form per se, in my opinion, but of where it arose, who performs it, and their "emotional" state.
Ed. Oxymoron-contradictory terms, i.e. neo-Nazi and intellectual. :)
Would you like me to sell some of my albums to you? I'll offer a discount and I'm sure you'll like them. They're a mixture of ballads from the romantic canals of Venice and the authentic Tuscan country side (wink wink). Wink!!!!!!!! 😈

Angela
27-09-17, 05:51
I wish they pin it down to melody versus beat-rhythm versus lyrics.

I personally wouldn't be able to choose, though. I like instrumental "classical" music, and I like melodic songs even if the lyrics aren't very profound. On the other hand, I love certain songs with profound lyrics sung by not particularly vocally gifted singer/songwriters. I really like "fun" songs too, like "Uptown Funk" that I posted on the music thread. Then there's all the dance tunes I love that are really all about the beat, like tango and milonga, in my opinion, or Irish step dance, or folk music, from all sorts of places, not just Italy. Each genre has its own strengths.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E4mBoGX6Dw

I even like some country music, even if it's a bit corny.

I suppose it might work if people only like one type of music.

Wheal
27-09-17, 05:51
We have hosted 2 girls from Germany and 1 girl and 3 boys from Czech Republic over the years. They all liked hip-hop. My boys were both into rap in HS.

davef
27-09-17, 05:57
I bet it was "jazz". ;)

@Angela
I do like couple of M&M songs.
hey LeBrok, in your case, you googled "heavy metal" after reading Jovialis's post! ;)
I never googled heavy metal a day in my life! I listened to it in diapers while rapidly shaking my rattle lol!!

Maciamo
27-09-17, 10:28
This is why I am getting very jaundiced about social psych type studies. There are too many variables that they don't consider.

It's a delusion to think that prisons are full of genius criminal minds. In local and state prisons, in particular, the profile is lower class, uneducated, disproportionately black from inner city slums. When would they have been exposed to classical music or traditional folk music?

There are two studies mentioned in the article. The first one is American, from New York University. But the second is British:

"Kevin Dutton, a psychologist at Oxford, and the author of The Wisdom of Psychopaths (https://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/oct/07/wisdom-of-psychopaths-kevin-dutton-review), has been gathering data on musical tastes and other preferences for a psychopath study with Channel 4. More than three million people have responded so far, and while online surveys have serious weaknesses, the results so far (http://www.channel4.com/programmes/psychopath-night) suggest psychopaths favour rap music over classical and jazz.". Note that Channel 4 is one of the main British TV channels.

Both studies analysed the musical tastes of psychopaths, not of prison inmates. The Guardian also interviewed a psychologist from the University of New Mexico who mentioned that 20% of prison inmates are psychopaths, but this was just for the journalist to explain how useful it could be to be able to spot psychopaths just based on their musical tastes, as part of a crime prevention system.

Maciamo
27-09-17, 10:34
Btw, I took the Channel 4 psychopath test (http://www.channel4.com/programmes/psychopath-night) and scored 30%. My favourite music is classical.


You are warm and empathic with a heightened awareness of social responsibility and a strong sense of conscience. You like to carefully weigh up the pros and cons of a situation before you act and are generally averse to taking risks. You are very much a ‘people person’ and dislike conflict. ‘Do unto others…’ are your watchwords. But, although you avoid hurting others, those residing at the higher end of the psychopathic spectrum might not be as considerate, so stay vigilant to avoid being hurt unnecessarily.

Reasonable description although I wouldn't call myself a ‘people person’.

Jovialis
27-09-17, 12:11
Btw, I took the Channel 4 psychopath test (http://www.channel4.com/programmes/psychopath-night) and scored 30%. My favourite music is classical.



Reasonable description although I wouldn't call myself a ‘people person’.


42% for me.




Though your conscience is in the right place you also have a pragmatic streak and generally aren’t afraid to do your own dirty work! You’re no shrinking violet - but no daredevil either. You generally have little trouble seeing things from another person’s perspective but, at the same time, are no pushover. ‘Everything in moderation – including moderation’ might sum up your approach to life.



I thought the below graphic was interesting:

Favortie music: Heavy metal (I like all music, but it's what I grew up listening to. Thus the reason for my choice.) Favorite animal: Fish (Again, what I grew up having, because my family didn't want to have other kinds of pets). Still 10% less psycho than the average male, and just 1% more than the average female.

https://i.imgur.com/zwXDMCI.png

Wheal
27-09-17, 15:14
Interesting. I think my brother would have scored closer to 80% . I scored a 39%.

LeBrok
27-09-17, 16:46
Btw, I took the Channel 4 psychopath test (http://www.channel4.com/programmes/psychopath-night) and scored 30%. My favourite music is classical.



Reasonable description although I wouldn't call myself a ‘people person’.
I got 30% too.

Angela
27-09-17, 18:50
I got 33%. It's probably accurate as far as I'm concerned, but I have next to no confidence in these kinds of tests to draw conclusions about people in general. People could take the test multiple times, could play games with it, etc.

Interesting that lovers of jazz are the least likely to be psychopaths according to them. They should have had more music choices, however. Also interesting that kitten lovers are the least. :)

Redmayne
27-09-17, 18:52
I got 33%. It's probably accurate as far as I'm concerned, but I have next to no confidence in these kinds of tests to draw conclusions about people in general.

Neither do I.

Jovialis
27-09-17, 19:28
I'm the most psychotic one here. :(

I think description I got was accurate though. However, I feel I can be very empathetic; unless someone tries to harm me, or I sense they are duplicitous. Though this is not in my nature, but a trait I've acquired throughout my teenage years and 20s from dealing with some bad people. Even then, its hard for me to hold a grudge. Sometimes, I need to resist the urge to forgive people that have continuously wronged me in the past.

Yetos
27-09-17, 19:50
oh yeah I am the one

''I scored 52% in the @channel4 psychopathic traits test.''


oh boy,

Isaak newton 61!!!!!!

Jovialis
28-09-17, 15:04
oh yeah I am the one

''I scored 52% in the @channel4 psychopathic traits test.''


oh boy,

Isaak newton 61!!!!!!



http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-pros-to-being-a-psychopath-96723962/
When most of us hear the word “psychopath,” we imagine Hannibal Lecter. Kevin Dutton would prefer that we think of brain surgeons, CEOs and Buddhist monks. In his new book, The Wisdom of Psychopaths: What Saints, Spies and Serial Killers Can Teach Us About Success, the Oxford research psychologist argues that psychopathic personality traits—charm, confidence, ruthlessness, coolness under pressure—can, in the right doses, be a good thing. Not all psychopaths are violent, he says, and some of them are just the sort of people society can count on in a crisis.

When psychologists talk about psychopaths, what we’re referring to are people who have a distinct set of personality characteristics, which include things like ruthlessness, fearlessness, mental toughness, charm, persuasiveness and a lack of conscience and empathy. Imagine that you tick the box for all of those characteristics. You also happen to be violent and stupid. It’s not going to be long before you smack a bottle over someone’s head in a bar and get locked up for a long time in prison. But if you tick the box for all of those characteristics, and you happen to be intelligent and not naturally violent, then it’s a different story altogether. Then you’re more likely to make a killing in the market rather than anywhere else.

Psychopaths are assertive. Psychopaths don’t procrastinate. Psychopaths tend to focus on the positive. Psychopaths don’t take things personally; they don’t beat themselves up if things go wrong, even if they’re to blame. And they’re pretty cool under pressure. Those kinds of characteristics aren’t just important in the business arena, but also in everyday life.
The key here is keeping it in context. Let’s think of psychopathic traits—ruthlessness, toughness, charm, focus—as the dials on a [recording] studio deck. If you were to turn all of those dials up to max, then you’re going to overload the circuit. You’re going to wind up getting 30 years inside or the electric chair or something like that. But if you have some of them up high and some of them down low, depending on the context, in certain endeavors, certain professions, you are going to be predisposed to great success. The key is to be able to turn them back down again.

I ran a survey in 2011, “The Great British Psychopath Survey,” in which I got people to fill out a questionnaire online to find out how psychopathic they were. I also got people to enter their occupations, what they did for a living, and how much money they earned over the course of a year. We found a whole range of professions cropping up—no serial killers among them, although no one would admit to it. The results made very interesting reading, especially if you’re partial to a sermon or two on a Sunday, because the clergy cropped up there at number eight. You had the usual suspects at the top; you had your CEOs, lawyers, media—TV and radio. Journalists were a bit down the list. We also had civil servants. There were several police officers, actually, so as opposed to being criminals, some psychopaths are actually out there locking other people up. Any situation where you’ve a got a power structure, a hierarchy, the ability to manipulate or wield control over people, you get psychopaths doing very well.


One important take away from the couple of Psychology classes I took in college was that everyone has shades of these mental disorders. Which is what ultimately shapes our personalities. With it, there are certain advantageous traits that could be applied in modern society. This article goes on to explain that some psychotic traits can allow you be to be quite successful both professionally and socially. However if the person also happens to be stupid, these traits would ultimately get them in trouble. The big difference is intelligence and managing aggression. As the article explains, not only are some of the inmates psychos; so are some of the people that lock them up. The difference is the ones that became police officers are able to hone those traits to their advantage. The same could be said for other occupations that require you to make tough decisions and act ruthlessly, where others may be inhibited.



"Kevin Dutton, a psychologist at Oxford, and the author of The Wisdom of Psychopaths (https://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/oct/07/wisdom-of-psychopaths-kevin-dutton-review), has been gathering data on musical tastes and other preferences for a psychopath study with Channel 4. More than three million people have responded so far, and while online surveys have serious weaknesses, the results so far (http://www.channel4.com/programmes/psychopath-night) suggest psychopaths favour rap music over classical and jazz.". Note that Channel 4 is one of the main British TV channels.

The Smithsonianmag article I linked is an interview with Kevin Dutton.

firetown
28-09-17, 21:07
What type of music did they prefer before there was rap?

Angela
28-09-17, 21:30
What type of music did they prefer before there was rap?

Since anger and violence is so much a part of rap, perhaps in much earlier times it was war songs? Not, of course, that most or many soldiers are psychopaths. Did pirates have their own songs? I would think so, and I would also think this might have been an attractive career choice, more than being a weaver, for example. :)

Also, I think we should emphasize that human psychiatric traits are always on a continuum. Real psychopaths are relatively rare.

This is a different scaling system than the one we've been discussing, but interesting in this regard.

http://mein-krampf.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/5.5percent-of-people-score-higher-than-30-on-psychopathy-test.png

Yetos
28-09-17, 22:49
I think modern society, and modern way of living push psychopath to persons

some heroes like him

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e0/Iron_Man_bleeding_edge.jpg

or some anti-heroes etc etc



or even a psychopath hero to face the bad psychopath guys

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0908/judge-dread-demotivational-poster-1251494477.jpg


come on, most of our modern heroes are psychopaths

https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/ironman/images/8/86/Incredible-Hulk-PNG.png/revision/latest?cb=20161208170121


our rules, presidents, ministers etc are psychopaths

https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/1/13/Kim-Jong-Un.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120112064459

davef
29-09-17, 09:44
I scored 48 percent likely bc I answered "agree" to questions asking if I'd do something cool like ride a motorcycle...so what? I'm more of a psychopath because I'm not boring or lame/dorky enough? Should I give up listening to metal and take up gardening, cut off my testosterone supply, gain fat, lose muscle, look up tuna salad recipes, and bake cookies for the neighbors? Screw that. I scored high because I'm not boring enough (btw I'm not saying that those who scored lower are more boring than myself-this includes anyone who scored 30 percent or lower. This test is only 11 questions long and isn't comprehensive imo).

davef
29-09-17, 09:48
my high score tells me that I'm still a buck with plenty of testosterone floating around ;)

Yaan
01-10-17, 10:19
27%, I listen to Heavy Metal, Hard Rock, Punk etc

Jovialis
01-10-17, 13:35
27%, I listen to Heavy Metal, Hard Rock, Punk etc

Too bad they didn't get more in dept with the genres. Like LeBrock said, there's a lot of different sub-genres of Classical music. The same if very true for Metal and Punk. I think people really into Black, Death, and/or Thrash metal would score differently, than someone just into regular Heavy Metal from the 70s. Same for punk; I'm sure people into hardcore, Oi, and/or 1977 style punk rock would have different scores. However, these sub-genres and crossover-genres can get very obscure though; so it would kind of be a ridiculous test at that point. Not to mention different regional-styles for those sub-genres.

Though people like my dad would sum them up in one genre; Crap. :rolleyes2:

Nik
02-10-17, 13:23
I scored 73% and the first sentence in the result is "you can play hardball with the best of them.

These pages and studies are a joke :D

No Diggity of Blackstreet is such a chill song and it's simply a nice song to hear to, while Eminem's Lose Yourself reminds you of past bad memories that made you stronger.

This whole fake psychopath thing must be just related to testosterone overproduction.

Try to listen to some of Hocico's songs like Ecos and Firewalking and make a comparison.

Bergin
02-10-17, 19:33
It is a surprising result! Always thought that psycopaths are gmasters at being undistinguishable.
So i always thought that they would always go for main stream. You need empathy to percieve art...

Sent from my SM-G903F using Eupedia Forum mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89698)

LeBrok
03-10-17, 02:04
For me, the most important trait that makes a psychopath is propensity to like suffering of others. Feeling pleasure from causing pain to others, physically and mentally. Without this major trait, whatever is left of psychopaths is harmless, or almost.

davef
03-10-17, 06:38
I scored 73% and the first sentence in the result is "you can play hardball with the best of them.

These pages and studies are a joke :D

No Diggity of Blackstreet is such a chill song and it's simply a nice song to hear to, while Eminem's Lose Yourself reminds you of past bad memories that made you stronger.

This whole fake psychopath thing must be just related to testosterone overproduction.

Try to listen to some of Hocico's songs like Ecos and Firewalking and make a comparison.

I totally agree on the testosterone thing, this test can overly inflate the score for males who have very healthy testosterone levels...or very healthy in general. Very healthy males like you and me. I forgot how to spell my doctor's name. Lol.

Maciamo
03-10-17, 10:04
I totally agree on the testosterone thing, this test can overly inflate the score for males who have very healthy testosterone levels...or very healthy in general. Very healthy males like you and me. I forgot how to spell my doctor's name. Lol.

Not so sure. Testosterone levels vary a lot with age. Yet before puberty I liked both classical and hard rock, and as my testosterone rose as a teenager (and it was quite high) I liked classical even more and stopped listening to hard rock altogether. I did kart racing as a teen, then I travelled around the world as a backpacker in my early twenties, did bungee jumping, rock climbing and other rather risky activities, which I wouldn't try again now. But my preference for classical music never changed over time. And I like all subgenres of classsical.

Maciamo
03-10-17, 11:19
You need empathy to percieve art...


Probably. That's maybe why I never thought of rap as art.

Promenade
03-10-17, 13:59
I wonder if this psychopath from the latest shooting in the US also enjoyed rap. These attributes are heritable. I'm sure he was just like his father(he was on America most want list), but healthily expressed and even controlled his psychopathy through gambling until he released he was getting old and finally acted on his inner habits. These people can blend in very well with the average population. It's a scary thing to think but friends and even family members could be part of this group without anyone realizing. It seems like this guys brother was luckily enough not to inherit the same psychopathy the shooter had.(Note the shooter had no children while his brother did)

LeBrok
03-10-17, 14:29
I wonder if this psychopath from the latest shooting in the US also enjoyed rap. These attributes are heritable. I'm sure he was just like his father(he was on America most want list), but healthily expressed and even controlled his psychopathy through gambling until he released he was getting old and finally acted on his inner habits. These people can blend in very well with the average population. It's a scary thing to think but friends and even family members could be part of this group without anyone realizing. It seems like this guys brother was luckily enough not to inherit the same psychopathy the shooter had.(Note the shooter had no children while his brother did)Weird case of well off retired accountant going psycho. We can't exclude brain injury or brain cancer yet. They are known to change personality in people too.

Promenade
03-10-17, 14:40
Weird case of well off retired accountant going psycho. We can't exclude brain injury or brain cancer yet. They are known to change personality in people too.
Okay, I'll give you that Lebrock. We don't know yet that perhaps he had a brain injury, but it's very curious given his fathers tendencies and his addiction with gambling.

Jovialis
03-10-17, 15:30
Weird case of well off retired accountant going psycho. We can't exclude brain injury or brain cancer yet. They are known to change personality in people too.

This reminds me of the wrestler, Chris Benoit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Benoit). He was a successful wrestler, I was even a fan of his back in the ECW/WCW/WWF days. He ended up murdering his entire family, and committing suicide. Some blame it on the fact that he had sustained concussions from wrestling.

I used to have a friend that was a wrestler in the indie-circuit. Sometimes he would act pretty psychotic out of nowhere; seemingly for no reason. He also ended up getting into a lot of trouble with the law eventually. Sometimes he seemed like a reasonable person and was very cool; other times he was nihilistically aggressive, and lacked empathy. I strongly suspect this had something to do with his head injuries. But I think he had some other underlying issues as well.

Angela
03-10-17, 15:53
This is a very strange case in more ways than one. Psychic breaks as in schizophrenia and related disorders occur predominantly in late adolescence or early adulthood, not this age, and violent behavior also diminishes with age, so perhaps there was something going on, as LeBrok suggests, like a tumor or something similar.

On the other hand, psychopatholgy can be a life long condition. The torture of animals is one sign of it, and certain psychopaths have a history of it as children. If that were the case then it's remarkable, as Promenade pointed out, that he controlled it for this long.

I doubt this had anything to do with excess testosterone. By his age, the levels are pretty low.

FBS
03-10-17, 16:27
It is strange how people working in the field of psychology do not even bother to check the work of previous scientists of the field, such as Clare w. Graves and continue his work. His study in the prissons of US matched perfectly this “psycopathic” level of human existence that is summarized in the nutshell in this paragraph:

3. Red
(Egocentric)http://www.vievolve.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/egocentric.png (http://www.vievolve.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/egocentric.png)
A highly individualistic level, often with a lot of anger in it.Can be seen in the ‘terrible two’s’ and rebellious teenage behaviour. Also evident in macho street violence later in life. Core values here include power, immediate gratification, escaping from being controlled, being respected and avoiding shame. Some evidence that a high proportion of prison population is at this level shown by lack of consequence awareness.


This level of human egzistence is driven by testosterone, grandiosity, purely egodriven. Unfortunately people that manage their egoes are boring to others since they are calm and serene. Ego has driven the humanity but it is a demon that needs to be tamed. Ego, that runs rampant manifests itself through psycopathy, bipolar, borderline, histrionic, narcisssim ,,, and a plethora of disorders that are listed but psychologists. Other levels of egzistence grow beyond this system and are able to be “healthy” members of society.

Angela
03-10-17, 17:01
It is strange how people working in the field of psychology do not even bother to check the work of previous scientists of the field, such as Clare w. Graves and continue his work. His study in the prissons of US matched perfectly this “psycopathic” level of human existence that is summarized in the nutshell in this paragraph:

3. Red
(Egocentric)http://www.vievolve.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/egocentric.png (http://www.vievolve.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/egocentric.png)
A highly individualistic level, often with a lot of anger in it.Can be seen in the ‘terrible two’s’ and rebellious teenage behaviour. Also evident in macho street violence later in life. Core values here include power, immediate gratification, escaping from being controlled, being respected and avoiding shame. Some evidence that a high proportion of prison population is at this level shown by lack of consequence awareness.


This level of human egzistence is driven by testosterone, grandiosity, purely egodriven. Unfortunately people that manage their egoes are boring to others since they are calm and serene. Ego has driven the humanity but it is a demon that needs to be tamed. Ego, that runs rampant manifests itself through psycopathy, bipolar, borderline, histrionic, narcisssim ,,, and a plethora of disorders that are listed but psychologists. Other levels of egzistence grow beyond this system and are able to be “healthy” members of society.

Was she by any chance the same doctor who once advocated giving all inmates a small dose of lithium or a similar drug? I remember reading about that. I'm sure that will never be permitted, but from my experience it would benefit both the inmates and make managing the inmate population easier. It would actually be more humane, imo.

LeBrok
03-10-17, 19:52
Okay, I'll give you that Lebrock. We don't know yet that perhaps he had a brain injury, but it's very curious given his fathers tendencies and his addiction with gambling. I just heard about his father. His psychopathic condition seems mostly genetic now. The question stands why so late in life? Did he lose all his fortune in Las Vegas?

Jovialis
03-10-17, 20:40
I just heard about his father. His psychopathic condition seems mostly genetic now. The question stands why so late in life? Did he lose all his fortune in Las Vegas?

I think the genetic aspect is possible. But it may also be from a negative upbringing, of having a bank-robber father on the FBI list. Perhaps both could have been influential; it's tough to say.

FBS
03-10-17, 23:19
Was she by any chance the same doctor who once advocated giving all inmates a small dose of lithium or a similar drug? I remember reading about that. I'm sure that will never be permitted, but from my experience it would benefit both the inmates and make managing the inmate population easier. It would actually be more humane, imo.
No, Clare W. Graves was actually a he. You can find out more about him and his work on http://www.clarewgraves.com/home.html

Nik
04-10-17, 01:02
I'd call a psychopath only those who have tendencies or end up hurting others/animals out of pleasure or whatever reason they have.

The rest is just krap trying to categorize a mix of several personal traits.

If anything, real psychopaths are usually abused loners with no friends, social skills, or even the slightest intention to develop any sort of relationship. As for the definition of the fake psychopaths just call it macho or narcissist and get done with it. "Charismatic psycho", yeah right.

Yaan
04-10-17, 22:22
Too bad they didn't get more in dept with the genres. Like LeBrock said, there's a lot of different sub-genres of Classical music. The same if very true for Metal and Punk. I think people really into Black, Death, and/or Thrash metal would score differently, than someone just into regular Heavy Metal from the 70s. Same for punk; I'm sure people into hardcore, Oi, and/or 1977 style punk rock would have different scores. However, these sub-genres and crossover-genres can get very obscure though; so it would kind of be a ridiculous test at that point. Not to mention different regional-styles for those sub-genres.

Though people like my dad would sum them up in one genre; Crap. :rolleyes2:

I guess you are right about Black and Death, but I love, love, love, love Thrash Metallica , Slayer, Megadeth, Anthrax, Exodus, Testament,Sepultura, Pantera .... :)

Jovialis
04-10-17, 22:29
I guess you are right about Black and Death, but I love, love, love, love Thrash Metallica , Slayer, Megadeth, Anthrax, Exodus, Testament,Sepultura, Pantera .... :)

I with you on that.

I actually prefer Thrash Metal to the other metal sub-genres.

I also like late-80s style New York Hardcore. I think it combines the best elements of metal and punk, imo.

Yaan
08-10-17, 09:31
I with you on that.

I actually prefer Thrash Metal to the other metal sub-genres.

I also like late-80s style New York Hardcore. I think it combines the best elements of metal and punk, imo.


Yes I like DRI, Cro-Mags, Agnostic Front, Suicidal Tendencies, I also like Ramones so, so much :)

A. Papadimitriou
11-10-17, 19:44
This is why I am getting very jaundiced about social psych type studies. There are too many variables that they don't consider.

It's a delusion to think that prisons are full of genius criminal minds. In local and state prisons, in particular, the profile is lower class, uneducated, disproportionately black from inner city slums. When would they have been exposed to classical music or traditional folk music?

They listen to rap. That's what they know. Correlation is not causation. They have to control for all sorts of variables, and test all over the world before they come to any conclusions, and even then they should be cautious.

I'm sure that in the 1920s a lot of them listened to blues or jazz. Now, it's effete white people like me, I bet, who listen to it regularly.

The problem with rap for me is that it's all about male anger, at least since the very early days. That's a function not of the "form", which actually is barely musical, but of the content.

All of that said, I think a lot of Eminem's lyrics are quite profound and moving, even if expressed in a way that doesn't appeal to me.

The 'content' can vary. It doesn't have to be about 'male anger'.

A. Papadimitriou
11-10-17, 20:07
I scored 48 percent likely bc I answered "agree" to questions asking if I'd do something cool like ride a motorcycle...so what? I'm more of a psychopath because I'm not boring or lame/dorky enough? Should I give up listening to metal and take up gardening, cut off my testosterone supply, gain fat, lose muscle, look up tuna salad recipes, and bake cookies for the neighbors? Screw that. I scored high because I'm not boring enough (btw I'm not saying that those who scored lower are more boring than myself-this includes anyone who scored 30 percent or lower. This test is only 11 questions long and isn't comprehensive imo).

I scored 48% too. The test is lame and the questions are lame. In many of them the only correct answer is 'It depends'.

Also someone with a basic understanding of what 'psycopathy' is and an average intelligence can get easily whatever results they want.

I've had had some psychology courses in university and I know how to appear narcissistic in a test for example.

Angela
11-10-17, 20:28
I think 23andme tests for narcissism, or at least they used to if my memory serves.

For anyone who has paid for the Ancient genome test on gene plaza you could use your 3.00 "coupon" for their narcissism test. I'm sure they're both using the same snps.

davef
12-10-17, 06:20
IM DEDICATING THIS TO JOVIALIS, YETOS, and if course MYSELF
https://youtu.be/x4e6Ln_Mg-w

davef
12-10-17, 06:22
Why were my lines of text glued together? Is there some sort of software glitch?

davef
12-10-17, 06:34
I think 23andme tests for narcissism, or at least they used to if my memory serves.For anyone who has paid for the Ancient genome test on gene plaza you could use your 3.00 "coupon" for their narcissism test. I'm sure they're both using the same snps.Why would anyone even bother with these tests to begin with? It's better to be blissfully unaware of genetic predispositions to these things to begin with, unless there's sa "cure".

davef
14-10-17, 02:46
Hopefully we'll get to the bottom of Jesus Campo's disappearance moments shy of his scheduled interviews. More suspicious is his deleted social media accounts...

It's pretty clear he's trying to cover something up.

exceededminimumso..
15-10-17, 15:40
I wonder if this psychopath from the latest shooting in the US also enjoyed rap.

He was actually fan of country music

"He liked country music, relatives said, and went to concerts like the Route 91 Harvest festival"

I blame J.R. Cash

Panda
15-10-17, 23:39
Interesting study. I will actually check music preferences of those I hang out with. Haha

halfalp
21-10-17, 20:02
I'm a lot into the Rock music specially punk rock and Classical music, but i grew up and live, with a lot of rap-fan, all my boys, ma friends, they all listen rap, primarly french rap. This is such a violent music, especially against women, but women also listen that violence, and participate to it. This is a very strange atmosphera that i never really liked. The correlation between rap and antisocial in that study, is very understandable. Sociopaths grew in bad situation, especially poverty, and rap is a music culturaly linked with american ghettos, poverty... So, we can imagine that people who become sociopaths in adulthood, because of their poor environnement, are also very linked with rap. The reason is also because in america, Urban living is almost everywhere the same. A lot of poverty that are black-americans and others ethnics that live in the same environnement are mutually influenced. Of course, dont look your friend who listen rap, as a sociopath, especially because rap has different sensibility, everything is not gangsta or bling bling in it.

Bergin
21-10-17, 20:22
I never really liked rap music, but to say that rap is associated with psycopaths is as far as it can get , in my opinion. I saw rap as some ugly poetry with little melody and a lot of angry verses. Probably, in certain contest it can stimulate aggressive behaviour - but agresivity is no psycopathy. Psycopaths are cold and calculative, non emotional, and non communicative. Rap has a lot of words, human emotions, and communication - ugly poetry. Do you really think that psycopaths like poetry ????
What i am looking for is some music with the least human component in it and there are two main candidates: instrumental classical, and minimal electronic.

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Jovialis
21-10-17, 20:30
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyting

Flyting is a ritual, poetic exchange of insults practised mainly between the 5th and 16th centuries. The root is the Old English word flītan meaning quarrel (from Old Norse word flyta meaning provocation). Examples of flyting are found throughout Norse, Celtic,[2] Anglo-Saxon and Medieval literature involving both historical and mythological figures. The exchanges would become extremely provocative, often involving accusations of cowardice or sexual perversion.
Norse literature contains stories of the gods flyting. For example, in Lokasenna the god Loki insults the other gods in the hall of Ægir and the poem Hárbarðsljóð in which Hárbarðr (generally considered to be Odin in disguise) engages in flyting with Thor.[3]

In the confrontation of Beowulf and Unferð in the poem Beowulf, flytings were used as either a prelude to battle or as a form of combat in their own right.[4]
In Anglo-Saxon England, flyting would take place in a feasting hall. The winner would be decided by the reactions of those watching the exchange. The winner would drink a large cup of beer or mead in victory, then invite the loser to drink as well.[5]

The 13th century poem The Owl and the Nightingale and Geoffrey Chaucer's Parlement of Foules contain elements of flyting.

Flyting became public entertainment in Scotland in the 15th and 16th centuries, when makars would engage in verbal contests of provocative, often sexual and scatological but highly poetic abuse. Flyting was permitted despite the fact that the penalty for profanities in public was a fine of 20 shillings (over £300 in 2017 prices) for a lord, or a whipping for a servant.[6] James IV and James V encouraged "court flyting" between poets for their entertainment and occasionally engaged with them. The Flyting of Dumbar and Kennedie records a contest between William Dunbar and Walter Kennedy in front of James IV, which includes the earliest recorded use of the word shit as a personal insult.[6] In 1536 the poet Sir David Lyndsay composed a ribald 60-line flyte to James V after the King demanded a response to a flyte.

Flytings appear in several of William Shakespeare's plays. Margaret Galway analysed 13 comic flytings and several other ritual exchanges in the tragedies.[7] Flytings also appear in Nicholas Udall's Ralph Roister Doister and John Still's Gammer Gurton's Needle from the same era.

While flyting died out in Scottish writing after the Middle Ages, it continued for writers of Celtic background. Robert Burns parodied flyting in his poem, "To a Louse," and James Joyce's poem "The Holy Office" is a curse upon society by a bard.[8] Joyce played with the traditional two-character exchange by making one of the characters society as a whole.

Hilary Mackie has detected in the Iliad a consistent differentiation between representations in Greek of Achaean and Trojan speech,[9] where Achaeans repeatedly engage in public, ritualized abuse: "Achaeans are proficient at blame, while Trojans perform praise poetry."[10]

Taunting songs are present in the Inuit culture, among many others. Flyting can also be found in Arabic poetry in a popular form called naqā’iḍ, as well as the competitive verses of Japanese Haikai.

Echoes of the genre continue into modern poetry. Hugh MacDiarmid's poem A Drunk Man Looks at the Thistle, for example, has many passages of flyting in which the poet's opponent is, in effect, the rest of humanity.

Flyting is similar in both form and function to the modern practice of freestyle battles between rappers and the historic practice of the dozens, a verbal-combat game representing a synthesis of flyting and its Early Modern English descendants with comparable African verbal-combat games such as Ikocha Nkocha.[11]

In Finnic Kalevala the hero Väinämöinen uses similar practice of kilpalaulanta (duel singing) to win opposing Joukahainen.

I find this to be pretty interesting. Many cultures had a form of "rap battles", or verbal-combat.

Bergin
21-10-17, 20:33
Just remember what was used in wars to stimulate people to slaughter each other ... tamburs and drums. Low frequency is also a plus because it approaches the internal frequencies of human bodies- we start to vibrate internally. Grieg's "In the hall of the mountain king" is the best i can think.

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