9.7-million-year-old hominin tooth fossil found in Germany

Johane Derite

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"A team of German archaeologists discovered a puzzling set of teeth in the former riverbed of the Rhine, the Museum of Natural History in Mainz announced on Wednesday.The teeth don't appear to belong to any species discovered in Europe or Asia. They most closely resemble those belonging to the early hominin skeletons of Lucy (Australopithecus afarensis) and Ardi (Ardipithecus ramidus), famously discovered in Ethiopia.
But these new teeth, found in the western German town of Eppelsheim near Mainz, are at least 4 million years older than the African skeletons, which has scientists so puzzled they held off publishing for a year."

Link: http://www.dw.com/en/archaeology-fo...rmany-could-re-write-human-history/a-41028029
 
Honestly, I was a doubtful initially due to there being only one source related to this story. But now I see another news outlet has picked up the story, and a paper is coming out next week. Let's see where this goes:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/will-10-million-year-old-teeth-crown-europe-cradle-humanity-1643846

Archaeologists have discovered a mysterious set of ape teeth - thought to be 9.7 million years old – which may upend our view of the evolutionary history of humans, the Museum of Natural History in Mainz has announced.

The teeth, which were found in the west German town of Eppelsheim, most closely resemble those belonging to two ancient human specimens which are only known to have lived several million years later in Africa – Lucy (Australopithecus afarensis) and Ardi (Ardipithecus ramidus) both famously discovered in Ethiopia.

However, the newly found teeth are more than twice as old as both of the African skeletons, puzzling scientists.

The first paper describing the teeth will be published online next week, but the importance of the find may not be clear until more is known about what species they belong to. At present, the fossils are being examined in detail by a specialist team, but if the teeth do turn out to belong to an early human ancestor, they would be the oldest hominin fossils ever discovered by some distance.

"They are clearly ape-teeth," Herbert Lutz, one of the researchers from the museum, was quoted as saying by local online news outlet Merkurist. "Their characteristics resemble African finds that are four to five million years younger than the fossils excavated in Eppelsheim. This is a tremendous stroke of luck, but also a great mystery."

In a press conference announcing the find, Mainz Mayor Michael Ebling said: "I don't want to over-dramatize it, but I would hypothesize that we shall have to start rewriting the history of mankind after today."

The archaeologists found the teeth while sifting through gravel and sand in a former riverbed of the Rhine – an area famous for ape fossil remains. They were discovered next to the remains of an extinct horse species which helped the researchers date the teeth.
From the end of October, the fossils will be displayed at the Rhineland-Palatinate state exhibition 'vorZEITEN', after which they will move to the Museum of Natural History in Mainz.
 
I'm very sceptical about this news.
 
I am as well, as I am a firm believer in scientific consensus. Nevertheless, I'm interested to see how the leading geneticists weigh in when it's all laid out.
I don't think there will be a DNA pulled from such old teeth.
 
9.7 million years long predates the presumed split between Chimpanzees and Australopithecines. Even if it were "only" 5 or 6 million years old, it would be the first (I think) Australopithecus found in Europe, or outside Africa for that matter.
 
The question I have is the dating. I would think if found in an old river bed that it could have washed from another area, and ended up next to the "horse-like" remains.
 
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Here's a professional's reaction to the dailymail headline.
 
Here's a pre-print of the paper that is to come out.
Abstract

In September 2016, two teeth of an up to now undescribed member of the Hominoidea have been uncovered from sediments of the Proto-Rhine River near Eppelsheim, Germany, the type locality for the Eppelsheim Formation (i. e. Dinotheriensande) and of 25 mammals of various systematic positions. Together with other finds from Eppelsheim and the Wissberg location, which is only 18 km away, these are the northernmost occurrences of Miocene primates in Europe. Both teeth, the crowns of an upper left canine and an upper right first molar, are exceptionally well preserved and obviously come from the same body of unknown sex. Their sedimentological environment and the accompanying faunal elements point to an age shortly before the Mid-Vallesian crisis at ca. 9.7 Ma. While the molar shares characters with various other taxa, the canine reveals intriguingly potential hominin affinities: its lingual outline is clearly diamond-shaped; its ratio of lingual height / mesiodistal length is within the range of Australopithecus afarensis, Ardipithecus ramidus, Ardipithecus kadabba, and females of Pan troglodytes. The relative size of the canine, i. e. the ratio of the buccal heights of C and M1, is similar to those of e.g. Dryopithecus sp., Ankarapithecus meteai but also Ardipithecus ramidus. Both, reduced size and shape of the canine likely indicate that the new species from Eppelsheim had lost a honing (C/p3) complex already ca. 9.7 Ma ago. From all information gathered up to now, the question arises, if the newly discovered Eppelsheim species may be related to members of the African hominin tribe.

A new great ape with startling resemblances to African members of the hominin tribe, excavated from the Mid-Vallesian Dinotheriensande of Eppelsheim. First report (Hominoidea, Miocene, MN 9, Proto-Rhine River, Germany) (PDF Download Available). Available from:

https://www.researchgate.net/public...eport_Hominoidea_Miocene_MN_9_Proto-Rhine_Riv
 
9.7 Million-Year-Old Teeth Found in Germany Belong to Hominin

http://www.ancient-origins.net/news...germany-belong-hominin-only-known-have-021671

9.7 Million-Year-Old Teeth Found in Germany Belong to Hominin Only Known To Have Existed in Africa 4 Million Years Later

Archaeologists have made a discovery so sensational that they have waited 1 year to announce it as they had to be sure they had the dating correct. A set of teeth belonging to an early hominin species has been found in Germany that dates back 9.7 million years. Could this finding be another nail in the coffin for the out-of-Africa theory of human origins?

It was only one month ago that scientists made the surprising announcement of 5.7 million-year-old hominin footprints on the island of Crete in Greece. Many responded with disbelief, as such a discovery suggests that the earliest human ancestors wandered around Europe at the same time or even earlier than Africa, drawing into question the widely-believed theory that humans emerged in Africa before spreading out to the rest of the world. Now the finding of 9.7 million-year-old hominin teeth in Germany supports the possibility that the out-of-Africa theory is wrong.

Finally:cool-v:
 
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...ear-old-hominin-tooth-fossil-found-in-Germany
There's already a thread about this.

For the record, I accidentally up-voted your post. I didn't mean to vote at all.

There's still a lot of evidence pointing to Africa. There will need to be scientific consensus before we can make such assumptions. Don't get caught up in the sensationalism of the headlines.

Science is not a opinion poll there kid, the fact either exists or it doesn't. Out of Africa is political science, pc b.s.
 
Out of Africa, another lie against western civilization. I see a lot of sad liberals.
 
^^ I doubt he's like that, he'll always take hard evidence over comfort theories designed to make everyone happy. If evidence that humanity began in Germany surpasses what we have that suggests an African origin, I doubt he's going to sit and cry and accuse the scientists of racism.
 
Out of Africa, another lie against western civilization. I see a lot of sad liberals.
I can see a weird creatures coming out from underbelly of conspiracy of archeology, and with one tooth wants to change history of mankind, lol. Soon they will show us "the proof" that people indeed lived with dinosaurs...
Yes, keep your open mind, but keep thinking as well!
 
What does liberal or conservative have to do with it?

The phylogeny is still the phylogeny. All current ydna comes from AA, just as one example. Even if "humanoids" originally developed in Europe or Asia, there is still an OOA 60-70,000 years ago. It just means a return to Africa and then an exit.

It is what it is. What difference does it make?
 
Science is not a opinion poll there kid, the fact either exists or it doesn't. Out of Africa is political science, pc b.s.

Where does the original story state the species homo sapiens didn't evolve in Africa? Because the last time I checked they didn't find homo sapiens bones older than the ones found there.

The archaeologists from Germany proposed they found teeth that mostly resemble that of Australopithecus, which looked like this:

k2vRUBNt.jpg


Read the pre-print of the paper:

https://www.researchgate.net/public...eport_Hominoidea_Miocene_MN_9_Proto-Rhine_Riv

What does the left-right political spectrum have to do with objectivity? So wanting consensus from professionals within the field makes someone liberal? That's not even what being liberal means. Also, there's plenty of so-called "conservatives" that don't even believe in evolution, let alone the fact that we evolved from apes. You're the one being political and bringing non-sense into the discussion, Kid.
 
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What does liberal or conservative have to do with it?
The phylogeny is still the phylogeny. All current ydna comes from AA, just as one example. Even if "humanoids" originally developed in Europe or Asia, there is still an OOA 60-70,000 years ago. It just means a return to Africa and then an exit.
It is what it is. What difference does it make?
Uptill know the only evidence for early OOA was homo erectus, some 2000 ka. If there were earlier OOA events, they probably were dead ends.
DNA suggests there were multiple OOA, the common ancestor of Neanderthal and Denisovan diverging 600 ka from modern humans, but also later admixture of pré-modern human mtDNA into Neanderthals.
As for modern humans, my guess is a 130-150 ka OOA into the Persian Gulf and further into Sundaland and Sahul that was replaced by a more recent OOA of haplogroup BT into Arabia with Nubyan complex and subsequent backmigrations into Africa and expansions into Eurasia from SW Asia.
This means that not only haplogroup E, but also B would be a backmigration into Africa, as the Nubyan complex in Arabia predates the B-CT split.
 

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