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Angela
10-11-17, 20:36
This should be a good one; hope it comes out soon...

"The genetic origin and heritage of Bronze Age Canaanites

Shai Carmi and David Reich



"Canaanites were the indigenous population of the Southern Levant during the 2nd millennium BCE. Their genetic origin and impact on modern populations have recently started to unravel following an analysis of a Lebanese sample. To study Canaanites from other Levant regions and their genomic heritage in the broader Middle East, we sequenced five petrous bones from Megiddo, Israel, dated to the Middle/Late Bronze Age (BA) transition (≈3.5 KYA). We enriched the DNA for approximately 1.2 million SNP targets, followed by sequencing at coverage >0.25x. Using a combination of statistical tools (PCA, f-statistics, ADMIXTURE, qpAdm), we found that the Megiddo samples can be modeled as a mixture of earlier samples from the Levant and Iran, the latter possibly representing migration via Armenia. The Megiddo samples showed high similarity to older Levant BA samples, as well as to a later Iron Age (IA, ≈3 KYA) sample that we sequenced from Abel Beth Maacah in Northern Israel. The genomes of modern native Levantine populations trace ≈60% of their ancestry to IA Canaanites, ≈10% to Eastern Africa, and the remaining to less well characterized sources, possibly related to Iran. The genomes of Ashkenazi Jews can be modeled as ≈55% BA Canaanites and ≈45% Neolithic Central Europeans, and those of Iraqi Jews as ≈70% BA Canaanites and ≈30% Neolithic Iranians. To validate the results, we developed a novel extension of ChromoPainter that can take advantage of the information in linked SNPs to paint ancient chromosomes and model their ancestry. Our results confirm previous findings regarding the mixed Levantine-Iranian ancestry of BA Canaanites, and suggest remarkable continuity in the region throughout the Bronze and Iron Ages. Using existing and new methods, we characterized the ancestry of modern Middle-Eastern populations as a combination of pre-existing groups from the Middle-East and beyond."

This is great stuff. They have sequenced bones from Megiddo in 1500 BC and one Iron Age sample from Northern Israel dated to 1000 BC. This is the time of Saul and David.

What differences exist from prior samples seem to have been from continued migration from areas around Armenia.

I definitely want to see the data for this:
"The genomes of Ashkenazi Jews can be modeled as ≈55% BA Canaanites and ≈45% Neolithic Central Europeans, and those of Iraqi Jews as ≈70% BA Canaanites and ≈30% Neolithic Iranians."

That would change what Shai Carmi has believed for years, i.e. that the Ashkenazi ethnogenesis involved absorption of Italian genes before the movement to the Rhineland. Or, perhaps that's one way they can be modeled, but not the only or the best way.

This new extension of ChromoPainter is potentially very important as well.

bicicleur
10-11-17, 22:20
I don't know the different origins of Ashkenazi and Iraqi and other Jews.
But I wonder whether the Jews could have been a multi-ethnic confederation of herders at their origin.
Or were they all 100 % BA Canaanites? How would the Ashkenazi then have gotten Neolithic European during the iron age?

Promenade
11-11-17, 00:49
I don't know the different origins of Ashkenazi and Iraqi and other Jews.
But I wonder whether the Jews could have been a multi-ethnic confederation of herders at their origin.
Or were they all 100 % BA Canaanites? How would the Ashkenazi then have gotten Neolithic European during the iron age?
Seems like they were all originally BA Canaanites. My guess is the Neolithic Central European is possibly a proxy for a southern European population.

davef
11-11-17, 01:26
I don't know the different origins of Ashkenazi and Iraqi and other Jews.
But I wonder whether the Jews could have been a multi-ethnic confederation of herders at their origin.
Or were they all 100 % BA Canaanites? How would the Ashkenazi then have gotten Neolithic European during the iron age?
I don't think it was a multi ethnic confederation. Its way more likely that Jews were completely Bronze Age Canaanite, and those who were captured by Babylonians were sent to Babylon and mixed with them (seems the babylonians had a lot of Iran Neolithic plus Levantine). Those left behind mixed with a population that had a real extreme Early European Farmer background, but never reached the Jews in Babylon.
55 BA Canaanite 45 percent central euro farmer resembles a child of a Levantine and someone with 90 percent EEF and 10 percent Levantine ancestry.

All of this is speculation btw

Angela
11-11-17, 15:06
Seems like they were all originally BA Canaanites. My guess is the Neolithic Central European is possibly a proxy for a southern European population.

This is what it sounds like to me as well. I'm very interested to see the actual data. I also think it will be interesting to see the comparison of specifically the Northern Israel Iron Age sample with other populations.

IronSide
11-11-17, 15:52
Modern Levantines trace 60% of their ancestry to IA Canaanites 10% to East Africa and the rest (30% ??) to less well-characterized sources? possibly related to Iran. I thought the increase in Iran related ancestry in modern Levantines with respect to the earlier BA Levant came from the Maryannu of the Middle Bronze Age, many had Indo-Aryan names, probably arriving from south central asia? but aren't they a bit late according to this paper ? if it wasn't detected in the Iron Age? am I missing something?

Greece and Sicily could be the Neolithic proxy, as there is Y-dna in Ashkenazi that better attributed to them rather than the Ancient Levant, E-V13, I2c2, J2-M319, R1b-Z2013 and others, or it could be a result of an Aegean migration to the Levant way earlier, I don't know.

davef
11-11-17, 16:21
Im about to give up on anthrogenica. They're still shooting for the 57 percent Samaritan 32 percent north Italian 7 percent Slavic 4 percent avar fit as if the phd's in this study don't know what they're talking about.

55 percent Bronze Age Canaanite 45 percent EEF is the best we got so far.

Angela
11-11-17, 16:23
Modern Levantines trace 60% of their ancestry to IA Canaanites 10% to East Africa and the rest (30% ??) to less well-characterized sources? possibly related to Iran. I thought the increase in Iran related ancestry in modern Levantines with respect to the earlier BA Levant came from the Maryannu of the Middle Bronze Age, many had Indo-Aryan names, probably arriving from south central asia? but aren't they a bit late according to this paper ? if it wasn't detected in the Iron Age? am I missing something?

Greece and Sicily could be the Neolithic proxy, as there is Y-dna in Ashkenazi that better attributed to them rather than the Ancient Levant, E-V13, I2c2, J2-M319, R1b-Z2013 and others, or it could be a result of an Aegean migration to the Levant way earlier, I don't know.

I'm wondering if they were able to get access to the Philistine ancient samples, and if not, what that would show.

LeBrok
11-11-17, 17:19
I don't know the different origins of Ashkenazi and Iraqi and other Jews.
But I wonder whether the Jews could have been a multi-ethnic confederation of herders at their origin.
Or were they all 100 % BA Canaanites? How would the Ashkenazi then have gotten Neolithic European during the iron age?My thoughts exactly.


Modern Levantines trace 60% of their ancestry to IA Canaanites 10% to East Africa and the rest (30% ??) to less well-characterized sources? possibly related to Iran. I thought the increase in Iran related ancestry in modern Levantines with respect to the earlier BA Levant came from the Maryannu of the Middle Bronze Age, many had Indo-Aryan names, probably arriving from south central asia? but aren't they a bit late according to this paper ? if it wasn't detected in the Iron Age? am I missing something?

Greece and Sicily could be the Neolithic proxy, as there is Y-dna in Ashkenazi that better attributed to them rather than the Ancient Levant, E-V13, I2c2, J2-M319, R1b-Z2013 and others, or it could be a result of an Aegean migration to the Levant way earlier, I don't know. I'm afraid, this paper will have low genetic "resolution", unfortunately.

davef
12-11-17, 07:56
I'm wondering if they were able to get access to the Philistine ancient samples, and if not, what that would show.
If they're responsible for the 45 percent European Farmer score, I'll bet their EEF score is going to be huge.

IronSide
12-11-17, 10:59
If they're responsible for the 45 percent European Farmer score, I'll bet their EEF score is going to be huge.

If Philistines did indeed come from the Aegean, then they will be a mixture of Mycenaean/Minoan and BA Levant, but I don't think they are responsible for the entire EEF admixture in Ashkenazi, otherwise all Jewish groups should have remained unaffected by foreign admixture like them, the only possible conclusion is it must have been real admixture from somewhere in the Meditteranean.

davef
19-11-17, 03:27
This is how Ashkenazim score on average in Kurd's new calculator based on moderns:
Caucasion-23.77
SE European-32.35
SC Asian-1.58
SW European-7.99
SW Asian-7.65
NW European-1.24
SC European-22.40
C Asian 2-1.87

Caucasian-Adygei, Kabdarin, Kuyk
SE European-Greeks, Albanians, Bulgarians, Romanians
SC Asian-Balochi, Brahui, Pakistani Parsis
SW European-Spanish and Basques
SW Asian- Bedouins and Saudis
NW European-British, Irish, northwest French
SC European-Sardinians and Sicilians
C Asian 2-Kazakh, Tajik, Turkmen

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?12677-Upcoming-K21-Calculator-at-GenePlaza/page11

Angela
19-11-17, 16:48
^^So, about 60% modern Southern European cluster.

Some of the models have gone that way in the academic papers, although if my memory serves Behar put the figure at closer to 40%.

That all ate away at the SWAsian, apparently, leaving just Caucasus.

I don't know how that squares with their similarity to groups like the Druse and Samaritans, who must have more SWAsian.

davef
19-11-17, 17:33
I know, I was a bit surprised since it doesn't fit academic models. The most common model is a 50 percent middle eastern then a majority Southern European like half and a dash of something more Northern.

Cerain posters at anthrogenica are coming up with all sorts of crazy models, but one user (Bas) is arguing that the Southern European half is more Sardinian-like than Greek or Italian like. This is kind of interesting since the model we see here suggests 45 percent EEF, so maybe there were still populations that were overwhelmingly early farmer like the Minoans or Mycenaeans?

Ill take what Bas said with a huge grain of salt since a) he's relying on d-stats and b) he has yet to post the results.

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?12623-Abstracts-from-Human-Evolution-2017-conference/page13

ignore the annoying, unnecessary posts about Sicilians

Angela
19-11-17, 17:55
^^It does fit one of the earlier academic models. Most of them were lower Southern European, however.

Well, now I definitely won't read it. There's only so much stupidity and psychotic driven agenda spewing that I can handle at one time.

davef
19-11-17, 18:18
^^It does fit one of the earlier academic models. Most of them were lower Southern European, however.

Well, now I definitely won't read it. There's only so much stupidity and psychotic driven agenda spewing that I can handle at one time.

Thats ok. It's sad that a site like that makes it possible to spam threads about academic studies.

davef
20-11-17, 06:31
If we take away 18.58 percent from the combined southern euro score and add it to the total middle eastern score (comprised of Caucasus and SW Asian) making it 50 percent, we're left with 44.16 percent Southern European...not far off from the farmer percentage mentioned in the Bronze Age Canaanite study. That's interesting.

And what do they mean exactly by "Neolithic Central Europeans"... i don't know which farmer group they're referring to.

Angela
20-11-17, 17:29
^^Probably LBK related, which means almost no actual WHG.

IronSide
25-11-17, 10:43
we found that the Megiddo samples can be modeled as a mixture of earlier samples from the Levant and Iran, the latter possibly representing migration via Armenia.

Are those earlier samples Levant BA from Jordan ? so can we say Levant MLBA = Levant BA + Armenia MLBA ? If so the latter could be the Maryannu and Hurrians of the Amarna letters.

A. Papadimitriou
25-11-17, 11:56
≈55% BA Canaanites and ≈45% Neolithic Central Europeans

That model is pointless.
There were no 'Neolithic Central Europeans' when they migrated to Europe and also if post-BA Canaanites had acquired Neolithic Iranian admixture they should have it too, so they should model Askhenazi as BA Canaanites + Iran Neolithic + whatever is needed from Europe (if it makes some sense historically).

raspberry
25-11-17, 11:58
Im about to give up on anthrogenica. They're still shooting for the 57 percent Samaritan 32 percent north Italian 7 percent Slavic 4 percent avar fit as if the phd's in this study don't know what they're talking about.
55 percent Bronze Age Canaanite 45 percent EEF is the best we got so far.
How is that "the best we got so far"? Show me one model where Ashkenazis are modeled like that with a distance less than 1/2%. You can't because it is not possible, it is just what you want to believe. (btw. I also see the model from Anthrogenica as wrong)

davef
25-11-17, 13:54
It's a guess and there's no need for personal accusations! It's just a guess that makes the most sense in my mind in comparison to the mixing with Romans theory that people vet because there's no ibd sharing with Italians and other Europeans. I still think the European connection is ancient because of that and the Central European farmer stands for a heavily Neolithic population. Mixing with Eastern Europeans did happen here and there but it may not have happened all too often.

If I'm wrong I won't be disappointed in the least bit.

davef
26-11-17, 19:59
That model is pointless.
There were no 'Neolithic Central Europeans' when they migrated to Europe and also if post-BA Canaanites had acquired Neolithic Iranian admixture they should have it too, so they should model Askhenazi as BA Canaanites + Iran Neolithic + whatever is needed from Europe (if it makes some sense historically).

It's not implying that, its suggesting that a population heavily EEF or Neolithic Balkan (Philistines most likely) as Jovialis pointed out may have mixed with the Judeans.

AbdoNumen
08-12-17, 03:30
Is there an anticipated release date for the paper?

IronSide
09-12-17, 18:02
Are those earlier samples Levant BA from Jordan ? so can we say Levant MLBA = Levant BA + Armenia MLBA ? If so the latter could be the Maryannu and Hurrians of the Amarna letters.

If the Mitanni and the Amarna chieftains of Canaan, who had Aryan and Hurrian names and deities, came from Armenia, what does that say about the Indo-Iranian homeland ? Assyrian records don't mention Iranian tribes to their east during this time, so is it possible that their homeland was in the Caucasus, from the steppes to Armenia to the Levant, another branch would migrate to Iran and India.

It reminded me of this post by Dienekes http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/12/solution-to-problem-of-indo-aryan.html

eblashko
14-12-17, 21:54
we found that the Megiddo samples can be modeled as a mixture of earlier samples from the Levant and Iran, the latter possibly representing migration via Armenia.

This is a very interesting statement. Megiddo is in Northern Israel, not very far from the archaeological site of Khirbet Kerak, a bronze age site on the shores of the Sea of Galilee. This site is thought to be a Levantine extension of the Kura-Araxes culture, which was centered in the Armenian highland.

Does anyone know if his paper will include Y haplogroups in the samepls from Megiddo? I postulate that this "Armenian" Kura-Araxes migration they refer to is responsible for bringing J2, R-L277, and R-L584 into the Levant. Would be interesting to see what they find.

Angela
14-12-17, 22:01
This is a very interesting statement. Megiddo is in Northern Israel, not very far from the archaeological site of Khirbet Kerak, a bronze age site on the shores of the Sea of Galilee. This site is thought to be a Levantine extension of the Kura-Araxes culture, which was centered in the Armenian highland.

Does anyone know if his paper will include Y haplogroups in the samepls from Megiddo? I postulate that this "Armenian" Kura-Araxes migration they refer to is responsible for bringing J2, R-L277, and R-L584 into the Levant. Would be interesting to see what they find.

I sure hope so. I can't wait for it to be published.

IronSide
14-12-17, 22:25
This is a very interesting statement. Megiddo is in Northern Israel, not very far from the archaeological site of Khirbet Kerak, a bronze age site on the shores of the Sea of Galilee. This site is thought to be a Levantine extension of the Kura-Araxes culture, which was centered in the Armenian highland.
Does anyone know if his paper will include Y haplogroups in the samepls from Megiddo? I postulate that this "Armenian" Kura-Araxes migration they refer to is responsible for bringing J2, R-L277, and R-L584 into the Levant. Would be interesting to see what they find.

Yes, and it is exactly the time for Hurrian migrations to Canaan, perhaps they introduced the Khirbet Kerak ware.

I'll also add R1a-F1345 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-F1345/) to the possible Y-dna lineages associated with them.

I don't think The Mitanni and the chieftains of Canaan mentioned in the Amarna letters migrated from central Asia to the Levant, but rather from Armenia, that might explain their relationship with the Hurrians, and it is consistent with this paper's modelling of the Megiddo population.

I also noticed that this is the third time I'm posting the same stuff, sorry :embarassed:

Angela
14-12-17, 22:33
Of course, the Kura Araxes samples we have are "L", though, which is interesting. Maybe with more some J2 will show up.

IronSide
14-12-17, 22:36
Were the Jebusites Hurrians ?


The Hebrew Bible contains the only surviving ancient text known to use the term Jebusite to describe the pre-Israelite inhabitants of Jerusalem; according to the Table of Nations at Genesis 10, the Jebusites are identified as a Canaanite tribe, which is listed in third place among the Canaanite groups, between the biblical Hittites and the Amorites. Prior to modern archaeological studies, most biblical scholars held the opinion that the Jebusites were identical to the Hittites, which continues to be the case, though less so.[13] However, an increasingly popular view, first put forward by Edward Lipinski, professor of Oriental and Slavonic studies at the Catholic University of Leuven, is that the Jebusites were most likely an Amorite tribe; Lipinski identified them with the group referred to as Yabusi'um in a cuneiform letter found in the archive of Mari, Syria.[14] As Lipinski noted, however, it is entirely possible that more than one clan or tribe bore similar names, and thus that the Jebusites and Yabusi'um may have been separate people altogether.[15]

In the Amarna letters, mention is made that the contemporaneous king of Jerusalem was named Abdi-Heba, which is a theophoric name invoking a Hurrian mother goddess named Hebat. This implies that the Jebusites were Hurrians themselves, were heavily influenced by Hurrian culture, or were dominated by a Hurrian maryannu class (i.e., a Hurrian warrior-class elite).[16] Moreover, the last Jebusite king of Jerusalem, Araunah/Awarna/Arawna (or Ornan),[17] bore a name generally understood as based on the Hurrian honorific ewir.[18]

Richard Hess[19] (1997:34–6) points to four Hurrian names in the Bible's Conquest narrative: Piram (king of Jarmuth) and Hoham (king of Hebron) (Jos 10:3), Sheshai and Talmai, sons of Anak (Jos 15:14) with Hurrian-based names.

Falco
15-12-17, 18:01
Between this paper modelling Ashkenazi as ~45% Neolithic Central European and the one on Ancient Lombard DNA showing very EEF-like people in Iron Age Hungary I can't help but wonder if there were other remaining EEF-like peoples in Central Europe at the time who could have possibly contributed to the Ashkenazi ethnogenesis.

Angela
15-12-17, 18:27
Between this paper modelling Ashkenazi as ~45% Neolithic Central European and the one on Ancient Lombard DNA showing very EEF-like people in Iron Age Hungary I can't help but wonder if there were other remaining EEF-like peoples in Central Europe at the time who could have possibly contributed to the Ashkenazi ethnogenesis.

It's strange, right? There's also an Iron Age Thracian who's very "Tuscan" like.

The problem with the Ashkenazim is that their ethnogenesis is in the early centuries after 1000 AD, and so IBD analysis should work, and yet there's no significant IBD sharing showing up except a small percentage with Poles.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-j8neaeiS52o/UwncbDA6GXI/AAAAAAAAcdA/OR7avrsY6lg/s1600/genetic.png

If you're interested in that topic, you might want to read Xue et al:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5380316/

I wish they publish both of those papers.

eblashko
16-12-17, 05:43
Here's a good book to get us jazzed up for the paper while we wait:

Check out Chapter 1 in Nadav Na'aman's "Canaan in the 2nd Millenium BCE" (2005). It's all about the Hurrians in Canaan and touches on earlier Anatolian migrations like the Khirbet Kerak ware people. Plus it talks about Megiddo burials which will feature in the upcoming paper as well.

And Ironside, it reaffirms the "northern" origin of the kings of Jerusalem that you wrote about.

(I don't have enough posts here to post links yet, but if you google the book title, the whole thing is available on Google Books for free).

IronSide
16-12-17, 06:42
Here's a good book to get us jazzed up for the paper while we wait:

Check out Chapter 1 in Nadav Na'aman's "Canaan in the 2nd Millenium BCE" (2005). It's all about the Hurrians in Canaan and touches on earlier Anatolian migrations like the Khirbet Kerak ware people. Plus it talks about Megiddo burials which will feature in the upcoming paper as well.

And Ironside, it reaffirms the "northern" origin of the kings of Jerusalem that you wrote about.

(I don't have enough posts here to post links yet, but if you google the book title, the whole thing is available on Google Books for free).

Thanks, welcome to Eupedia eblashko :)

eblashko
16-12-17, 12:31
Thanks, welcome to Eupedia eblashko :)

Thanks! Happy to have found such a cool place :)

IronSide
11-01-18, 16:04
I want to read it, is it out yet ?

Alyan
14-05-18, 02:08
It's interesting to consider that much of the European ancestry in Western Jews might be even older than the Romans. Especially when their obvious European ties have been used to delegitimatize them as connected to the Biblical Israelites.