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bicicleur
03-01-18, 15:13
Boef is a Dutch rapper with French nationality and Algerian roots.

https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boef_(rapper)

He is popular with a young public, mainly females because of his though attitude, disrespecting the law and everybody else.
Now there is controversy and people are offended because he says that all woman who go out and don't stay at home are 'kech' which is Arabic for whore.

First he confirmed his stance and it became clear that his rapping texts are not just for fun, he means every word he says, and he is convinced of his own personal superiority.

Now he has apologised, but after all he has said before, it does not sound very convincing.

Many women are outraged, but what I don't understand is that his main fans are female, who must have understood long before how little respect this man has for women. They simply like his tough and provocative style.

It is a very hostile and disrespectfull attitude toward women and at the same time some women adore this attitude and promote this style.
It's an anomaly which I find hard to understand.
I'm sure Boef is not the only case. It happens all over the world.

Angela
03-01-18, 15:53
Boef is a Dutch rapper with French nationality and Algerian roots.

https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boef_(rapper)

He is popular with a young public, mainly females because of his though attitude, disrespecting the law and everybody else.
Now there is controversy and people are offended because he says that all woman who go out and don't stay at home are 'kech' which is Arabic for whore.

First he confirmed his stance and it became clear that his rapping texts are not just for fun, he means every word he says, and he is convinced of his own personal superiority.

Now he has apologised, but after all he has said before, it does not sound very convincing.

Many women are outraged, but what I don't understand is that his main fans are female, who must have understood long before how little respect this man has for women. They simply like his tough and provocative style.

It is a very hostile and disrespectfull attitude toward women and at the same time some women adore this attitude and promote this style.
It's an anomaly which I find hard to understand.
I'm sure Boef is not the only case. It happens all over the world.

I don't understand it either. Is it mainly the Muslim young women who like his music? If they're used to that attitude then that might explain it.

Here in the U.S. I don't know of any of my daughter's friends, for example, who listen to rap about killing the police, or raping and beating up women.

On the other hand, look at the women who write to murderers and thugs in prison, visit them, sometimes marry them. The Menendez brothers had quite a following even after killing both their parents. The Boston bomber got fan mail. In all these cases the men were attractive, of course.

https://dd2d9j2i66w9u.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/04112836/MenendezBrothers.jpg

Lyle Menendez has been married twice while in prison.

Rolling Stone made the Boston Bomber look like a rock star.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/Rolling_Stone_Cover_with_Boston_Bomber.jpg

I certainly can understand that women like strong men, some might even consciously or unconsciously like domineering men, but to take it to these extremes is a pathology I really don't understand.

bicicleur
03-01-18, 16:07
no, it is mainly dutch young women or girls
somehow they seem to be attracted to such a provocative exotic male who profiles himself as superior to the average plain dutch male and the authorities

who in the US is most fan of those rappers you mention? what ethnicities, age groupes, sex?

Jovialis
03-01-18, 16:10
Boef is a Dutch rapper with French nationality and Algerian roots.

https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boef_(rapper)

He is popular with a young public, mainly females because of his though attitude, disrespecting the law and everybody else.
Now there is controversy and people are offended because he says that all woman who go out and don't stay at home are 'kech' which is Arabic for whore.

First he confirmed his stance and it became clear that his rapping texts are not just for fun, he means every word he says, and he is convinced of his own personal superiority.

Now he has apologised, but after all he has said before, it does not sound very convincing.

Many women are outraged, but what I don't understand is that his main fans are female, who must have understood long before how little respect this man has for women. They simply like his tough and provocative style.

It is a very hostile and disrespectfull attitude toward women and at the same time some women adore this attitude and promote this style.
It's an anomaly which I find hard to understand.
I'm sure Boef is not the only case. It happens all over the world.

I think it's just a stupid social trend. I doubt they even genuinely like the guy. People will follow others to be cool, and are conditioned to like what they like.

bicicleur
03-01-18, 16:14
I think it's just a stupid social trend. I doubt they even genuinely like the guy. People will follow others to be cool, and are conditioned to like what they like.
that certainly is true, but it is not just something new
always there have been a few 'trend leaders' and a lot of followers who actualy give up all their principles just to blend in

but now after this incident, they interviewed some girls and boys, and the girls all said they stay fan of Boef, while the boys all say he has always been exagerating and they are not realy fan of him

Angela
03-01-18, 16:38
no, it is mainly dutch young women or girls
somehow they seem to be attracted to such a provocative exotic male who profiles himself as superior to the average plain dutch male and the authorities
who in the US is most fan of those rappers you mention? what ethnicities, age groupes, sex?

I'm so not the right person to ask, Bicicleur. :)

So, I looked it up...

"In 2004 Mediamark Research Inc. estimated that closer to 60 percent of rap music consumers were white. While that’s still substantial, it’s much lower than the rumored 80 percent that has been floating around for over twenty years.

Of the approximately 64 million Americans between age 15 and 30, about 73 percent of them are white. So if 60 percent of rap consumers were white in 2004, they represented a significantly lower number than their share of the population—meaning the Blacks and Hispanics in remaining 40 percent were significantly higher than their share of the overall U.S. population.
In others words, whites were underrepresented among rap consumers and Blacks and Hispanics were over-represented."

http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/11/06/really-listening/

I couldn't find anything about any gender gap. Strictly anecdotally, I don't know any white girls who are big gangsta rap fans.

Why do white boys like it? I don't know. Is it possible that they feel emasculated by modern culture?

Jovialis
03-01-18, 16:52
that certainly is true, but it is not just something new
always there have been a few 'trend leaders' and a lot of followers who actualy give up all their principles just to blend in
but now after this incident, they interviewed some girls and boys, and the girls all said they stay fan of Boef, while the boys all say he has always been exagerating and they are not realy fan of him



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_conditioning
Social conditioning is the sociological process of training individuals in a society to respond in a manner generally approved by the society in general and peer groups within society. The concept is stronger than that of socialization, which is the process of inheriting norms, customs and ideologies. Manifestations of social conditioning are vast, but they are generally categorized as social patterns and social structures including nationalism, education, employment, entertainment, popular culture, religion, spirituality and family life. The social structure in which an individual finds him or herself influences and can determine their social actions and responses.

Social conditioning represents the environment and personal experience in the nature and nurture debate. Society in general and peer groups within society set the norms which shape the behavior of actors within the social system. Though society shapes individuals; however, it was the individual who made society to begin with and society in turn shaped and influenced us. Emile Durkheim who really played an important role in the theory of social facts, explained and talked how what was once a mere idea which in this case Durkheim is talking about society has turned out to be a thing which basically controls and dictates us.[1]

Yes, it's a process known as social conditioning. When something is aggressively marketed to a target demographic, people will eventually start to become influenced.

bicicleur
03-01-18, 16:54
Why do white boys like it? I don't know. Is it possible that they feel emasculated by modern culture? [/SIZE][/FONT]

probably not
probably most of them are just followers of other 'trend setters' with a desire to blend in

Jovialis
03-01-18, 17:05
probably not
probably most of them are just followers of other 'trend setters' with a desire to blend in

The boys are just following the trend, because that's what the girls are currently into.


that certainly is true, but it is not just something new
always there have been a few 'trend leaders' and a lot of followers who actualy give up all their principles just to blend in
but now after this incident, they interviewed some girls and boys, and the girls all said they stay fan of Boef, while the boys all say he has always been exagerating and they are not realy fan of him

bicicleur
03-01-18, 18:20
it is not just followers, it starts with some girls who are attracted to this kind of figure
like a 'lover boy' (a Dutch expression), who seduces a young girl, makes her fully emotional dependant on him and then sells her as a prostitute 'to favor his friends' just like a pimp does

check this :
https://www.rnw.org/archive/loverboy-pimps-whats-love-got-do-it
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/aug/18/loverboy-child-prostitution-netherlands

it is the same culture
but indeed many other boys and girls follow just to be part of the trend but without feeling that kind of attraction

and he has been promoted by some popular music stations - uptill now that is
his music isn't even that bad, but his attitude and arrogance is

by the way, his name 'Boef' is Dutch for 'Gangster'

exceededminimumso..
03-01-18, 18:40
Who are those rappers that rap about beating women? I can only remember 9601
Not sure if he rapped about police

bicicleur
03-01-18, 18:47
Who are those rappers that rap about beating women? I can only remember 9601
Not sure if he rapped about police

Boef actually doesn't rap about beating women, but his disrespect and his contempt for women who think they are equal to him or his brothers is overobvious.

Any girl of woman who isn't submissive is a 'whore'.

exceededminimumso..
03-01-18, 18:53
Boef actually doesn't rap about beating women, but his disrespect and his contempt for women who think they are equal to him or his brothers is overobvious.

Any girl of woman who isn't submissive is a 'whore'.

Sorry, I meant


Here in the U.S. I don't know of any of my daughter's friends, for example, who listen to rap about killing the police, or raping and beating up women.

Jovialis
03-01-18, 18:59
it is not just followers, it starts with some girls who are attracted to this kind of figure
like a 'lover boy' (a Dutch expression), who seduces a young girl, makes her fully emotional dependant on him and then sells her as a prostitute 'to favor his friends' just like a pimp does
check this :
https://www.rnw.org/archive/loverboy-pimps-whats-love-got-do-it
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/aug/18/loverboy-child-prostitution-netherlands
it is the same culture
but indeed many other boys and girls follow just to be part of the trend but without feeling that kind of attraction
and he has been promoted by some popular music stations - uptill now that is
his music isn't even that bad, but his attitude and arrogance is
by the way, his name 'Boef' is Dutch for 'Gangster'

There is a correlation between intelligence and conformity. Thus it's no surprise to me that the masses of people with lower-intelligence are attracted to the wrong individuals, and make the wrong choices. In this case, it's the glorification of being physically and emotionally abused by a malcontent.


The research also found that people with higher IQs don't follow the pack as much as others - but when they do, they do so more strategically. In other words, smarter people tend to take their own path most of the time, because they think they have the correct answer. When they're unsure, however, they are more willing than those with average IQs to follow the majority.
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-07/uobc-mrw072815.php

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1090513815000586

bicicleur
03-01-18, 19:59
yes, it is about stupidity and boredom

and then they chose for somebody who presents himself as a rebelious player

but it is also about total lack of selfrespect and respect for those who are close to them

Jovialis
03-01-18, 20:20
yes, it is about stupidity and boredom
and then they chose for somebody who presents himself as a rebelious player
but it is also about total lack of selfrespect and respect for those who are close to them

I agree, low self-esteem is usually associated with destructive behavior. While I said higher-intelligent people are less likely to conform, they do it because of positive choices; as the study said, "because they feel like that have the right answer". Individuals with low-self esteem, rebel for nihilistic, and/or emotionally charged reasons. I believe that people with lower-intelligence, and/or low self-esteem, often conflate individuality, and self-destructive rebelliousness.


Three Faces of Low Self-Esteem

Low self-esteem is not always easy to recognize. Here are three common faces that low self-esteem may wear:
The Imposter: acts happy and successful, but is really terrified of failure. Lives with the constant fear that she or he will be found out. Needs continuous successes to maintain the mask of positive self-esteem, which may lead to problems with perfectionism, procrastination, competition, and burn-out.

The Rebel: acts like the opinions or good will of others—especially people who are important or powerful—don't matter. Lives with constant anger about not feeling good enough. Continuously needs to prove that others' judgments and criticisms don't hurt, which may lead to problems like blaming others excessively, breaking rules or laws, or opposing authority.

The Victim: acts helpless and unable to cope with the world and waits for someone to come to the rescue. Uses self-pity or indifference as a shield against fear of taking responsibility for changing his or her life. Looks repeatedly to others for guidance, which can lead to such problems as unassertiveness, underachievement, and excessive reliance on others in relationships.

https://cmhc.utexas.edu/selfesteem.html