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View Full Version : Interesting new I1 kit, first negative for both DF29 and Z17954 ever found



I1a3_Young
18-01-18, 18:40
It's pending now and being analyzed by the Z63 crew, admins of the Z58 and Z63 project at FTDNA.

So far all living men have tested positive for either DF29 (about 98+%) or Z17954. You can't be positive for both and this is the first test ever for a living man in this category.

This could redefine the I1 tree. The admins are reviewing all 303 SNPs for I1 right now.

The company is Full Genomes Corp.


First results are back. I've checked through about half of the 303 SNP block defining I1. All are positive so far. Other SNPs are missing though and I do not know what to make of that. Waiting for the BAM file. Meanwhile, I will keep checking the I1 block.

Location of the man: Sweden

eastara
19-01-18, 10:43
I haven't followed the discussions about I1 here, but on Eupedia haplogroups site it is claimed the earliest I1 found in Europe is from Neolithic Hungary.
However I just read on the Genetiker's blog he has analysed a few Mesolithic samples from Sweden and one of them was I-M253. So this Swedish results could be a remnant from the early I1 branching.



Sample
Location
Date BC
Haplogroup


Hummervikholmen 2
Southern Norway
7502–7325
I2c1-S6635* (https://genetiker.wordpress.com/y-snp-calls-for-hummervikholmen-2/)


Stora Förvar 11
Stora Karlsö, Sweden
7073–6810
I1~M253 (https://genetiker.wordpress.com/more-y-snp-calls-for-stora-forvar-11/)


Stora Bjers 1
Gotland, Sweden
7013–6629
I2a1a2a~L1286* (https://genetiker.wordpress.com/y-snp-calls-for-stora-bjers-1/)


Steigen 1
Northern Norway
4000–3814
I2a1b-M423 (https://genetiker.wordpress.com/y-snp-calls-for-steigen-1/)




https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2018/01/10/y-snp-calls-from-mesolithic-scandinavia/

mwauthy
19-01-18, 14:27
It's pending now and being analyzed by the Z63 crew, admins of the Z58 and Z63 project at FTDNA.

So far all living men have tested positive for either DF29 (about 98+%) or Z17954. You can't be positive for both and this is the first test ever for a living man in this category.

This could redefine the I1 tree. The admins are reviewing all 303 SNPs for I1 right now.

The company is Full Genomes Corp.


Location of the man: Sweden

Interesting indeed! If what you say is true shouldn’t there only be i1a (df29) and i1b(z17954) on the phylogenetic tree right now under i1 with this individual possibly becoming i1c?

According to Maciamo’s phylogenetic i1 tree currently there is i1a(df29), i1b(z131), i1c(z17925), and i1d(y19086).

I1a3_Young
19-01-18, 18:40
I haven't followed the discussions about I1 here, but on Eupedia haplogroups site it is claimed the earliest I1 found in Europe is from Neolithic Hungary.
However I just read on the Genetiker's blog he has analysed a few Mesolithic samples from Sweden and one of them was I-M253. So this Swedish results could be a remnant from the early I1 branching.



Sample
Location
Date BC
Haplogroup


Hummervikholmen 2
Southern Norway
7502–7325
I2c1-S6635* (https://genetiker.wordpress.com/y-snp-calls-for-hummervikholmen-2/)


Stora Förvar 11
Stora Karlsö, Sweden
7073–6810
I1~M253 (https://genetiker.wordpress.com/more-y-snp-calls-for-stora-forvar-11/)


Stora Bjers 1
Gotland, Sweden
7013–6629
I2a1a2a~L1286* (https://genetiker.wordpress.com/y-snp-calls-for-stora-bjers-1/)


Steigen 1
Northern Norway
4000–3814
I2a1b-M423 (https://genetiker.wordpress.com/y-snp-calls-for-steigen-1/)




https://genetiker.wordpress.com/2018/01/10/y-snp-calls-from-mesolithic-scandinavia/That is correct. BAB5 is the name of the Hungary sample and is the earliest M253 ever found. They tested a single SNP and we have no idea how many of the 305 I1 SNPs BAB5 was positive for. Was it all? Probably not.

SF11 from Götland only has 17 calls for I1. He's positive for 7 and negative for 10. M253 was not even tested. Nobody alive today that we know of is descended from SF11 and we don't have enough info about BAB5.

The man in the test I mentioned is the first example of a living man like this.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

I1a3_Young
19-01-18, 18:49
Interesting indeed! If what you say is true shouldn’t there only be i1a (df29) and i1b(z17954) on the phylogenetic tree right now under i1 with this individual possibly becoming i1c?

According to Maciamo’s phylogenetic i1 tree currently there is i1a(df29), i1b(z131), i1c(z17925), and i1d(y19086).https://www.yfull.com/tree/I1/

Those others are below Z17954.

I believe the visible sample at the top from Sweden could be the test subject we are discussing.

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mwauthy
19-01-18, 19:23
https://www.yfull.com/tree/I1/

Those others are below Z17954.

I believe the visible sample at the top from Sweden could be the test subject we are discussing.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Thanks for the link. The i1 tree has expanded a lot since last time I checked.

I1a3_Young
19-01-18, 19:31
Thanks for the link. The i1 tree has expanded a lot since last time I checked.It's changing fast. The Z63 tree is updating frequently due to the hard work of a couple admins. Just today they updated to include a new branch at S2077.

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spruithean
21-01-18, 21:19
I hope with more testing we can keep updating and improving the I1 tree, we might not have the volume of the R tree though...

I1a3_Young
09-04-18, 18:50
The kit is finished and another family member added. There are now three branches of I1. All of the traditional I1 markers were found except the two existing branches known at that time. We still haven't obtained a single sample of I1 that isn't descended from the 4600 YBP guy.

DF29 - almost all I1
I-Z17954 - some well established branches with a Scandinavian tilted mode of spread
CTS12768/M1182 - single family in southern Sweden

https://yfull.com/tree/I1/

mwauthy
10-04-18, 01:48
The kit is finished and another family member added. There are now three branches of I1. All of the traditional I1 markers were found except the two existing branches known at that time. We still haven't obtained a single sample of I1 that isn't descended from the 4600 YBP guy.
DF29 - almost all I1
I-Z17954 - some well established branches with a Scandinavian tilted mode of spread
CTS12768/M1182 - single family in southern Sweden
https://yfull.com/tree/I1/
Interesting! Thanks for the update! I’m starting to think this guy who lived 4600 ybp was probably from Sweden.

Whoever owns that Hungary sample needs to test the other 300 or more snps. The results could be so informative.

I1a3_Young
10-04-18, 16:47
Interesting! Thanks for the update! I’m starting to think this guy who lived 4600 ybp was probably from Sweden.

Whoever owns that Hungary sample needs to test the other 300 or more snps. The results could be so informative.

The methods for extraction of ancient DNA are only getting better. I bet the I1 hobby base could crowdfund it easily. In fact I bet even the Z58/Z63 FTDNA group could fund it alone.

The Excavating Institute was the Institute of Archaeology of the Hungarian Academy of Sciences. Zoffman 2011 but the samples were excavated in 1999-2001.

The neighboring excavation of BSZ, also done by the Institute and Zoffman noted that the excavating archaeologist had Y-DNA I1 according to table S17. I wonder if this is addressed in the full paper. I only have the tables.

I1a3_Young
10-04-18, 18:49
In fact, no Y-DNA was analyzed of the BSZ samples of which there were 41 skeletons. There were only 6 at BAB with one being male unless one of the three unsexed adolescents were male.

They could clear up a lot of speculation by revisiting these samples with modern techniques.

Wheal
11-04-18, 16:02
My husband tested as I1 and I do have his father's sample and my two son's samples. I will eventually test them all for big Y. It will be interesting to see how they all come out.

Deadly77
30-07-19, 10:41
I wish they had sprung for a WGS on this sample rather than YElite. The YElite does an excellent job of getting most of the SNPs, but in any enrichment test there are some holes that lead to no calls. From my understanding, this kit had reads for 270 out of 309 SNPs that define I1 - all positive. It's probably good enough, but it would be nice to be more sure of the remainder. My own YElite has 37 no calls among the 312 SNPs that define I1 on the current and 3 that are ambiguous. My WGS gets all 312 of the SNPs read - zero no calls, 2 ambiguous, positive for all the rest.
I guess that the WGS prices at the time were prohibitive for what they thought they could fund. Still, an excellent effort by the admins getting this through and a worthwhile venture and some very nice work.