PDA

View Full Version : Up to 27% of men report unwanted sex on college campuses (study)



Tomenable
29-01-18, 22:23
Up to 27% of men succumb to being pressured by women into unwanted sex on college campuses:

https://sci-hub.tw/https://academic.oup.com/sf/advance-article-abstract/doi/10.1093/sf/sox066/4555229?redirectedFrom=fulltext

https://academic.oup.com/sf/advance-article-abstract/doi/10.1093/sf/sox066/4555229?redirectedFrom=fulltext

https://theconversation.com/what-about-young-men-who-are-having-unwanted-sex-88677

"Going with the Flow": How College Men's Experiences of Unwanted Sex Are Produced by Gendered Interactional Pressures
Jessie V Ford
Published: 17 October 2017

Abstract
While scholars are giving greater attention than previously to sexual assault against women, they have ignored the fact that men report unwanted sex as well. This article examines thirty-nine heterosexual men's narratives about their experience of unwanted sex in college. My analysis of these data shows how unwanted sex with women is interactionally produced through a process where men seek to save face and to make sense to others. Unwanted sex relates not only to interactional processes, but also to the content of what is considered acceptable behavior in heterosexual interactions. That is, cultural norms governing gender provide the content for what allows a man to save face and for his actions to make sense to a female partner. In particular, men consent to unwanted sex because accepting all opportunities for sexual activity is a widely accepted way to perform masculinity. Findings also show that men conduct their sex lives in the shadow of presumed gendered reputational consequences. They fear ridicule if stories are told portraying them as the kind of man who does not jump at any opportunity for sex with an attractive woman. Moreover, it seems that women, as arbitrators of men's sense of self, may play an important role in policing masculinity and upholding gender expectations, at least in undergraduate sexual cultures. Amidst current attention to sexual assault on college campuses, I argue for a closer look at the importance of interaction and the implicit gendered rules of what is considered acceptable and masculine in heterosexual interaction. (...)

Depending on how survey questions are phrased, somewhere between 7 percent and 27 percent of heterosexual men report an unwanted sexual incident during college (DiJulio et al. 2015; Flack et al. 2007; Ford and Soto-Marquez 2016; Peterson et al. 2011). (...)

In accounts of unwanted sex, heterosexual men frequently describe women using verbal or psychological pressure. (...) turning down a sexual opportunity may make a man lose face precisely because he is a man (Gagnon and Simon 2011; Pascoe 2011).

(...)

Notable throughout my interviews were the ways men accounted for unwanted sex as something necessary to avoid a problematic interaction. Men gave different reasons for having unwanted sex -
some men emphasized not wanting to confuse or hurt women while other men emphasized what others might think of them. Nearly all men, however, explained that being face-to-face with a woman who wanted to have sex created a situation that had to be addressed. Having unwanted sex was one way to manage such a situation. By describing unwanted sex as something that happens to manage the interaction, the men provide insight into the importance of interactional processes during sex:

You said you felt pressure to keep going?
Definitely.
Was that from her?
Yeah. I kinda felt.... But it was me too, based on the situation. Felt like I had
to go all the way. It was just necessary.
Necessary?
Yeah.
Why not stop it?
It would have felt weird to me. I can’t see myself.... I don’t know. I wouldn’t have done that.
–Jeff, twenty-five-year-old senior

(...)

When describing sex, male respondents did not talk about uncontrollable biological urges or powerful female seductresses so much as they described a normative commitment to keep the interaction going smoothly:

What if you’d stopped it?
Yeah. She might think I was a little strange.
Strange?
Like she got rejected…. I think she would feel weird or surprised.

(...)

Markedly, the men I interviewed often had a good idea of what they wanted to happen sexually during interactions. For example, some men only wanted the interaction to involve kissing, touching, or oral sex. Other men became aware that they did not want to have intercourse but were unsure how to direct an inprogress sexual encounter to achieve this goal.

(...)

Across interviews, two main interactional processes—saving face and making
sense—were common features of unwanted sexual experiences. Some men had
unwanted sex to save face in an encounter that was becoming uncomfortable.
Other men had unwanted sex because it made sense to do so in a progressing
sexual encounter. For twenty-one-year-old Adam, it was a case of the former.
Unwanted sex began unfolding after a party. During this party, he kissed a
woman who continued to “hang out” after the party had ended. At this point, it
was late at night, and he recalled being tired, somewhat drunk, and ready to
clean up after the party. In Adam’s account, he initially tried to avoid this
woman by going downstairs to his room. She proceeded to follow him downstairs.
Next Adam told her that the “party is over” and “everyone’s left.” In
both of these gestures, Adam attempted to strategically, and perhaps politely,
end the interaction. He recalled, “She just wouldn’t leave.” Adam did not want
to have sex because he was currently interested in another woman. He was also
tired from hosting, and it was late.

Their interaction became “generally uncomfortable,” in Adam’s words, as she
continued to stay. She eventually started kissing him. She told him out loud that
she “really wants to have sex.” Adam calculated his options, then made a conscious
decision to “go through with it” rather than stopping the interaction. When
I asked him why he did not more overtly ask her to leave, Adam said, “I could
have told her to leave, but I didn’t. Because, I guess I didn’t want to be rude. Yeah.
I’m not very confrontational. I can’t imagine telling her to her face I want her to
leave. That would have been harder for me to do [laughs] than going through with
it and possibly damaging her. It’s kinda shitty when I think about it.” Asking her
to leave would have been harder than having sex with her. He thought this despite
his worry that he may have hurt her feelings by not contacting her afterward. I
argue that Adam went through with unwanted sex because of expectations embedded
in that interaction. He could not imagine asking her to leave or explaining that
he did not want to have sex—which might cause them both to lose face—so he
had sex to smooth the interaction.

(...)

On my paper questionnaire, Adam checked the item indicating he had sex he
“did not want” because “someone verbally pressured” him. He describes the sex
that night as “unsatisfying, “impersonal,” and “meaningless.” He says, “I mean
I even faked an orgasm. That was a first. I didn’t think guys ever had to do
that…. Even physically, like it just wasn’t, it didn’t feel good enough to make me
climax. There was just like nothing there for me.” It appears that to smooth the
interaction, Adam feigned the most polite exit of all: a proper climax. This
served to save face for Adam and his partner. By doing this, he ended the sex in
an acceptable way—an action in line with traditional sexual scripts, which dictate
that sex ends with male climax (Gagnon and Simon 2011).

(...)

The Role of Gender in Interaction

As the accounts above imply, men frequently drew upon gender expectations and hegemonic ideals of masculinity as an explanation for unwanted sex. These included expectations for men to want sex, to always be ready for it, and to amass sexual experiences with attractive women. In my sample, men described having unwanted sex to project an image, to keep up a reputation, and to take advantage of a sexual opportunity. Men worried that disrupting an encounter could result in them being viewed as a “pussy,” “virgin,” “jerk,” or someone who is “gay.” It is notable here that these terms are very different from the kinds of terms (i.e., “tease,” “prude”) applied to women who say no to sex.

(...)

For nineteen-year-old Max, unwanted sex unfolded as he left a party. He was leaving at the same time as a female friend from his dorm, so they left together.

Max explained, “I did not want to do this [sex]. Not at all. She was a really nice girl. But I didn’t think she was that hot. I’d say she’s really attractive…. But it just wasn’t that type of relationship…. It was more like a sister relationship. I never had a sister, but like I would give her advice and stuff, apply for things together. So it was...yeah...I dunno, just that.” Contrary to the stereotype that men want sex from women whenever they can get it, Max explained that he was happy with their relationship as friends. Although Max described her as not “that hot,” he told me she was objectively “pretty cute” (...) In the elevator back at the dorm, she began kissing him. The encounter progressed into sex, which Max described as “physically forced” on my paper questionnaire.

You said you have had sex forced on you.... Was it this time?
Yeah, that was that time.
What do you mean?
I feel like it was just so many people that had been saying it [that he
should hook up with her] for so long that I was like this is not gonna
stop so I might as well. Then kind of just because she wanted it. I
couldn’t really shrug her off or something once she started kissing me in
the elevator. That would’ve been weird to me.

While Max referred to peer pressure and her feelings, he also explained that rejecting
her would be “weird.” When I probed further, Max explained that the
reason it would have been “weird” had to do with gender norms. He said,
“When a girl comes on to you, you’re just like ‘ok, I’ll accept this’

(...)

Studies of hegemonic masculinity and gender norms suggest that men are
often policed or nudged into behaving in certain ways (Pascoe 2011).

(...)

Importantly, these accounts from men also show that men seem believe that
women’s reports will be credible to other men and women. This implies that women’s
interpretations of events have consequences for men’s sense of self. If it is
critical that men perform masculinity respectably, even in private dyadic contexts,
this underscores women’s role in policing masculinity and in upholding
gender expectations.

It’s hard for men to say no?
Yeah. It’s uncomfortable.
How is it uncomfortable?
Because first I don’t really like to make people feel bad about themselves.
Also there is this social pressure that men like sex a lot and women can
choose yes or no. So I guess it makes you unmanly if you don’t want to
have sex. Maybe, probably. Unconsciously honestly. I was not thinking
that at the time. Yeah, looking at it, maybe that’s one reason.
–Greg, twenty-year-old sophomore

Greg articulated how gendered content worked jointly with interactional processes
to facilitate unwanted sex. For Greg, saying no to sex was uncomfortable.
In a generic (nongendered) sense, it could make someone “feel bad” if you
turned down their invitation. She could lose face; he could lose face, and this
action might not make sense. Next, gendered content is layered onto generic
interactional pressures such that turning down sex becomes “unmanly.”
Women, in particular, may “feel bad” if their sexual invitation is rejected, due to
sexual double standards. In the context of gender norms and hegemonic notions
of masculinity, interactional processes push men toward unwanted sex. With
these pressures combined, some men have unwanted sex.

(...)

Andy—who views sex as something special to be done with serious girlfriends—
avoided sex by being more direct. However, he chooses his timing carefully:

I’ll straight up say, “There’s something you should know. We’re not
gonna have sex tonight.” I’m not gonna wait until they try to do it and
be like “no” because then if you say it in the moment then they feel bad,
like “oh god I’m sorry,” or upset. I don’t want it to be a surprise really.
But in the end it is a bit of a surprise because they were expecting it in
the first place. I guess in most cases I did want to be with them, but just
not intercourse.
So, you think it’s a surprise?
They’re definitely a little surprised by it that a 20-year-old guy is turning
away sex, but I feel like I would rather surprise them as little as possible
with that.

(...)

Connor successfully avoided an unwanted sexual encounter with this woman by
telling her to stop and physically removing her from his lap. He succeeded by
“resort[ing] to physical force.” Connor explained that sex with someone more
“drunk” is not desirable because he could get in trouble and it is not right. This
came up frequently in interviews. Given the emphasis on sexual assault on campus,
men were wary of sexual advances from women who appeared intoxicated.
Therefore, one credible way to avoid unwanted sex was by acknowledging that
she was intoxicated.5

(...)

Finally, unwanted sex could also be avoided when an interaction was interrupted
abruptly. For example, Luke did not want to have sex with a woman but
ended up having it anyway during a party. When they were interrupted midway
through, he was able to stop the sex.

(...)

Discussion
To understand how unwanted sex occurs for men, I argue that it is necessary to
understand the power of interactional expectations and how they are gendered. (...)
Men’s accounts showed that, sometimes, interactional dynamics only pushed toward unwanted sex
because gender norms informed the content of (1) how men were expected to act;
(2) what men were expected to want; and (3) what actions might make men lose
face with their partner or others. For example, men feared being made fun of by
others and considered a “wuss” if they turned down a sexual opportunity.
Therefore, I argue that some of what occurs to produce unwanted sex for men can
be explained by gender-neutral theories of interaction, but much of what occurs
cannot because what saves face or is expected depends on a person’s gender.
As reviewed above, Goffman posits that general social rules constitute what
he calls the communicative morality of interactions. My findings here provide
evidence supporting an idea of Goffman’s—one that is often overlooked—that
communicative morality cannot work without being overlaid with the normative
(Goffman 1983). That is, communicative morality inevitably implies a
more substantive morality, which in this case is informed by gender norms.
What college men’s accounts of unwanted sex make clear is that gender tends
to attach itself to substantive morality so that the rules of interaction are gendered
in important ways.

The discovery that men sometimes have sex because they fear what women will
think of them informs our understanding of gender, power, and masculinity.

(...)

My findings suggest that women have more power than is otherwise understood because
women’s accounts have consequences for men’s sense of self. Findings also show that men
believe women’s reports of the interaction will be credible to others.

(...)

Although more research is needed, men’s accounts reveal a common perception that they had unwanted sex by their own volition. As a result, they did not frame these encounters as sexual assault and reported few traumatic effects.

My results have indirect implications for a debate in the literature on women’s
sexual victimization as to whether the men who commit assault are malicious or
confused. One side argues that men understand women’s refusals, but deliberately
force sex anyway (Lisak and Miller 2002; Sanday 1990). The other side
argues that men are young, drunk, and clueless, and that much sexual assault results
from miscommunication (Abbey et al. 2014; Tannen 1991). Against this
claim, Kitzinger and Frith (1999) provide evidence that men are able to read
social cues about refusal in other situations.

(...)

Conclusion

In this qualitative interview study, I have explored what it means for a man to have
unwanted sex and the processes by which it happens. My findings indicate that
with sex, as in other areas of life, as theorists argue, interaction proceeds by all parties
trying to accomplish normalcy. No one wants to lose face or to make no sense
to others when it comes to sex. What is striking is that, although these college
men’s experiences involve sex, which we sometimes assume to be a largely biologically
driven affair, these men report deploying the same tactics for the same reasons
that a person tries to keep the banter going when talking to someone at a dinner
party. People try to fulfill interactional expectations, even when the cost is high.
I find that gender-neutral processes of interactional smoothing, though important
to my analysis, were not sufficient to explain men’s accounts of unwanted
sex. At least in the context of heterosexuality, gender is also key to the expectations
and policing that men face. What allows a man to save face or make sense
is substantially informed by gender.

Moreover, men conduct their sex lives in the shadow of presumed gendered reputational consequences. They fear ridicule if stories are told portraying them as the kind of man who declines sex with an attractive woman.

While much research has been conducted on women, more research comparing
men and women is still needed to understand the gendered content of norms
in sexual contexts. For example, men claim that rejecting or avoiding sex is
“weird” or “strange.” Do women draw upon similar language, or are there differing
ways that women account for unwanted sex? Does the expectation that
men want sex more than women, and the existence of a double standard where
women may be judged more adversely for casual sex than men, give women
more freedom to stop events from leading to unwanted intercourse, such that
when they do have unwanted sex, more coercion has been involved? Further
comparative detailed accounts of women’s and men’s sexual experiences are
needed to increase our understanding of the gender of sexuality, and how it is
layered onto interactional processes."

Angela
30-01-18, 06:30
For goodness sakes', that's nothing. I would bet 100% of women have had unwanted sex, even if you were to exclude rape or physical force or doing it for money, or anything approaching it.

When unmarried or unpartnered, it's in response to constant importuning, I suppose, if you're the type to give in to that, or feeling it's time if everyone else seems to have done it, if you're the type to give in to peer pressure.

Even for very traditional women, it could come under the heading of keeping your partner happy. Both of you are not always in the mood at the exact same time. If you have some heat in your blood, you'll soon be in the mood.

What's the big deal? It's "Much Ado About Nothing".

Jovialis
30-01-18, 14:49
I think it's absurd they would even make a study about such a non-issue. Perhaps this an expression of modern-day victimology on college campuses; young men even complaining about this. smdh :useless:

Salento
30-01-18, 17:16
I think that those men, ( I doubts that is 27%, more like 1% or less) should just Be Quite.
There’s no way in hell that they can get over power, or abuse, unless they want to. Cry babies.

AdeoF
30-01-18, 18:20
I am around there age aswell and i think from the current environment of no means no is not just hitting on women but men aswell, since l there is a decrease of testosterone level in the western world (which to me is a BIG PROBLEM). The thing is though, what would people say if it was the over way around. I got a good imagination of that since the left-west is going nuts about it

halfalp
31-01-18, 02:07
I wonder how those guys get a boner, it would be Ronda Rousey with a mix of GHB and Viagra to rape a man. I think we dont have enough of the context, what kind of guy they are. I'm also of the opinion that this is about being a victim, a traditionnal man, dont talk about those kind of thing, he fights against or get revenge, but none of that non-sense. This has nothing to do with nature and testosterone, like the demographic in europe, this is all about cultural change, or corruption of the morale and banalization of amoral behaviors.

Ygorcs
31-01-18, 03:47
Only 27%? I'd bet that at least in the long term, somewhere along one's sexual life, 100% of the population will have done "unwanted sex" of the sort we're not really in the mood, we'd like to postpone it or not do anything at all until some time later... but we end up giving in. That's TOTALLY different in all aspects from rape, sexual harassment or sexual abuse, beginning with the fact that you give in not to violence, blackmail or threats, but just to persuasion or to your own fears to lose an opportunity that could later pay off, become an unpleasant partner or maybe an unreliable sexual partner, leading your partner to look for someone else.

Really, much ado about nothing. This is yet another proof of what I've been seeing a lot in the last few years: so much people are trying to "problematize" all issues that they are risking destroying the credibility of similar situations that are really serious, even criminal, and not merely annoying. People who cry "wolf" too much and too often end up harming those who have a fair accusation or a really useful and urgent problematization.

LeBrok
31-01-18, 06:29
Only 27%? I'd bet that at least in the long term, somewhere along one's sexual life, 100% of the population will have done "unwanted sex" of the sort we're not really in the mood, we'd like to postpone it or not do anything at all until some time later... but we end up giving in. That's TOTALLY different in all aspects from rape, sexual harassment or sexual abuse, beginning with the fact that you give in not to violence, blackmail or threats, but just to persuasion or to your own fears to lose an opportunity that could later pay off, become an unpleasant partner or maybe an unreliable sexual partner, leading your partner to look for someone else.

Really, much ado about nothing. This is yet another proof of what I've been seeing a lot in the last few years: so much people are trying to "problematize" all issues that they are risking destroying the credibility of similar situations that are really serious, even criminal, and not merely annoying. People who cry "wolf" too much and too often end up harming those who have a fair accusation or a really useful and urgent problematization.
I agree, much ado about nothing. The fake news category, which often traps likes of Tomenable in their quest to "save the white christian men race".

halfalp
31-01-18, 13:26
I agree, much ado about nothing. The fake news category, which often traps likes of Tomenable in their quest to "save the white christian men race".Well, personnally i dont care about the christian part, but i care about the white men part, because apparently white women dont want to be saved but only do what they want, in some religious context we could take the Lilith and Eve part very seriously. But hey ! whatever it's been so much years that right and moral dont equal each other, nowadays it's just about the right to do things, sad world.

Tomenable
31-01-18, 18:32
What's the big deal? It's "Much Ado About Nothing".

That figure of 27% includes also cases such as these (three real life examples):

1)


I studied with a guy who had a horrible experience.

He went out for a couple drinks on his own and the next thing he remembers is waking up next to a woman he didn't know, who was still asleep.

He says he got up and wasn't wearing any clothes. His clothes were lying in a pile next to the bed and quickly got dressed. His wallet was still there. He looked out of the window and saw his car but didn't have a clue where he was. He took a walk through the house and found another bedroom, with a child asleep in the bed. He felt something funny in his mouth and pulled out a pubic hair.

Then he left very quietly in order not to wake anyone up and started driving. He drove and drove until he eventually found a familiar road and went home.

He remembered nothing of what happened or how he got there. It was drinks at a club and then waking up next to a strange woman. He said it was the most distressing thing which ever happened to him and something he never wants to repeat.

If this date rape had happened to a woman, there would have been sympathy. In his case everyone was laughing at him.

2)


I know a gay man who got drunk one night and passed out. 5 girls had mounted themselves on his unconscious body one after the other. This stuff does happen.

3)


I was actually shamed by a woman into doing something sexual with her that I didn't really care to.

If the genders were reversed those cases of "unwanted sex" would be considered rape, especially in paranoid America, where ~25% of young people think, that even asking a woman out for a drink is sexual harassment (compared to around ~0% in most of Western European countries):

https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2017/11/daily-chart-14?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/ed/

https://i.imgur.com/LuYGGx2.png

https://i.imgur.com/dTj9f1j.png

^^^
I wonder what would be the results of such a survey in Canada.

Tomenable
31-01-18, 18:45
A lot of non-straight men get raped by women like in that case above (where 5 women gang raped a passed-out gay man). Let me remind you that homosexuality and bisexuality are more common among men than among women (contrary to the popular stereotype):

https://i.imgur.com/hzVrzjf.png

Source:

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/7zv13z8mfn/YG-Archive-150813-%20Sexuality.pdf

Tomenable
31-01-18, 18:51
"save the white christian men race".

You can read here what would happen if all men disappeared:

http://judgybitch.com/2013/09/17/what-would-happen-if-no-men-showed-up-for-work-today/

Tomenable
31-01-18, 18:58
Only 27%? I'd bet that at least in the long term, somewhere along one's sexual life, 100% of the population will have done "unwanted sex" of the sort we're not really in the mood, we'd like to postpone it or not do anything at all until some time later.

That study is about unwanted CASUAL sex with STRANGERS.

Unwanted sex with your wife is something different. As you might consent to sex if she wants it even if you are not in the mood, just to please her. But that study is about casual hookups, not marital-duties.

I think it was obvious from the context of the study, wasn't it?

Angela,

You are also talking about marital-duties. And that's not what the study is about.

The study is about sex outside of long-term romantic relationships or marriage.

Jovialis
31-01-18, 19:04
That study is about unwanted CASUAL sex with STRANGERS.

Unwanted sex with your wife is something different. As you might consent to sex if she wants it even if you are not in the mood, just to please her. But that study is about casual hookups, not marital-duties.

I think it was obvious from the context of the study, wasn't it?

Angela,

You are also talking about marital-duties. And that's not what the study is about.

The study is about sex outside of long-term romantic relationships or marriage.

Nobody has mentioned anything about marital-duties except you, from what I see. I don't understand what you're talking about.

What do you mean by "marital-duties"?

Tomenable
31-01-18, 19:10
What do you mean by "marital-duties"?

This: "marital-duties. (euphemistic) The duty to be available to one's spouse for sexual intercourse."

Long-term refusal to be available for sex can be one of grounds on which one can file for a divorce.

davef
31-01-18, 19:18
This: "marital-duties. (euphemistic) The duty to be available to one's spouse for sexual intercourse."

Long-term refusal to be available for sex can be one of grounds on which one can file for a divorce.
So in other words, have her be like Leia chained to Jabba the Hutt?

Tomenable
31-01-18, 19:21
I think it's absurd they would even make a study about such a non-issue.

It's not a non-issue because, while not all of unwanted sex is nonconsensual, part of it is.

One of the interviewed men (Max) reported being physically forced into sex by that girl.

Tomenable
31-01-18, 19:22
So in other words, have her be like Leia chained to Jabba the Hutt?

Or the other way around. But nope, of course you cannot make someone your sex slave.

But you have a legitimate reason for a divorce if your marriage is "dead" in the bedroom.

Tomenable
31-01-18, 19:26
An average American woman is now big and strong enough to physically force a man into sex:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/chrissymahlmeister/anything-but-average?utm_term=.tg5520pgx#.inzX4OBrD

They are like Sumo wrestlers, it is not funny. But people will joke about you if it happens to you:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/lifestyle/health/men-who-were-sexually-assaulted-10271205

LeBrok
31-01-18, 19:40
An average American woman is now big and strong enough to physically force a man into sex:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/chrissymahlmeister/anything-but-average?utm_term=.tg5520pgx#.inzX4OBrD

They are like Sumo wrestlers, it is not funny. But people will joke about you if it happens to you:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/lifestyle/health/men-who-were-sexually-assaulted-10271205
Geez, aren't we grasping for ridiculous arguments and examples? "Very sad".

halfalp
31-01-18, 20:12
Please no buzzfeed arguments, it's make them to much credit for what they are. Also for exemple, if a virigin guy very religious, puritain, was like forced to lose his virginity and kill his idealization of his first time, i could understand that this is some kind of a rape, but the homosexual one is pretty weird, i dont think it's about sexual orientation, wich is a cultural and not natural thing, but more about what kind of personnality this homosexual is. I remember that article where 2 guys in florida making a burglar in a homosexual home ( the guy was like gregor clegane from game of thrones ) have been raped for few days by the guy. Not all homosexual men are shy, indangered little flowers, some can be very very dangerous. Actually in the case of united states, if we take prison rape in mind i think the ration between men and women raped is 50 / 50, but once again it's all about the gender war, that SJW want to create and about being recognized as a victim of something. Usual men dont like to talk about their problems and bad experiences, we keep that in our heart and head.

Angela
01-02-18, 05:51
Let me be clear, I do not believe in criminalizing people for asking other people for sex, whether the person asking is male or female. I also don't believe in criminalizing compliments to the opposite sex, pick up lines, or even persistent pleading.

This has reached absurd levels in my opinion.

If it turns into stalking behavior, harassment by constantly calling, sending flowers etc., or, of course, behavior by someone with power promising promotions or retaliation for giving or withholding sexual favors, any kind of unwanted physical contact, or force applied to the other party, male or female, it should indeed result in criminal charges being brought.

If a woman does any of that to a man, he should go to the police. Pleading, making fun or you, calling your manhood into question, is, in the first case stupid and demeaning, in the others immoral, but it isn't criminal. In those situations I would suggest you hang out with different kinds of girls.

I also think you guys should stop worrying about women trying to rape you.

Ninety percent of adult rape victims are women. Of the other 10% who are men, the study doesn't seem to break down the perpetrators by sex, but I think we can safely say that a certain percentage of these rapes were committed by men.

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/victims-sexual-violence

halfalp
01-02-18, 22:27
I think the point of Tomenable was maybe that, in past decades there have been a lot of progress for women, for their rights, also for equality, but nowadays we live in a world of complete non-sens where a lot of feminist are always triggered for things that are complete non-sens and in the other hands those same feminists consider men as privileged, so typically something like rape that is for some feminist a women fight, a women possession, a privileged fight for women but that feminists always try to monopolize; if that fight would became an " equal " fight for both sexes, they would lost an argument for beating against men and this is totally true. Women and third-wave feminists are clearly two different things and two different fights, the first want to be recognized as more as just a tool for men wich is understandable; the second try to destroy men because they believe that men and especially white men is the source of everything wrong in society. And i just talk about third-wave feminism and not the complete non-sens that are SJW and the hurt that they make in USA, UK and Canada. That said, stalking, both ways, is a deviant behavior and can really turning fast into antisocial behaviors.

Ygorcs
02-02-18, 21:41
Men worried that disrupting an encounter could result in them being viewed as a “pussy,” “virgin,” “jerk,” or someone who is “gay.”

Then kind of just because she wanted it. I
couldn’t really shrug her off or something once she started kissing me in
the elevator. That would’ve been weird to me. [...] While Max referred to peer pressure and her feelings, he also explained that rejecting
her would be “weird.” When I probed further, Max explained that the
reason it would have been “weird” had to do with gender norms. He said,
“When a girl comes on to you, you’re just like ‘ok, I’ll accept this’

Because first I don’t really like to make people feel bad about themselves.
Also there is this social pressure that men like sex a lot and women can
choose yes or no. So I guess it makes you unmanly if you don’t want to
have sex.

Dude, sorry, but these accounts are exactly what I said before: not rape, not harassment, but man giving in to their own fears and to their own perceived need to affirm their masculinity and their reputation as manly sexual partners. Nothing else. There are many men who are really sexually harassed and even raped, but if the examples of some of those "27%" are mostly like those described in the report then I'd say we can safely deduce that the number of men who were really abused/raped is probably 10% or 20% of those, that is, between 2% and 5%.

Please, men complaining about abuse because they themselves abused themselves to do something that they didn't want just to confirm their "macho" status. They are victims of male chauvinism that they themselves practice, not of abuse by women, honestly. If these man aren't strong and brave enough to face possible criticisms because they said "no", how on earth can they intend to be perceived as manly and strong adults? For Heaven's sake! hahaha! The one time that someone tried to make me do something that I didn't want in sex I made it very clear (physically clear) that I am the owner of my body. And I don't care about my "man reputation". ;-)

vyvyx
23-02-18, 13:50
inverted victimhood, male identity politics is a vacuous ploy.

Tomenable
03-03-18, 00:45
But you have a legitimate reason for a divorce if your marriage is "dead" in the bedroom.

More about it:

https://therationalmale.com/2014/07/23/case-study-low-expectations/

https://therationalmale.com/2013/12/03/saving-the-best/