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avarex
13-02-18, 22:06
where could he pass? presumed origin? taxonomy?

https://i.imgur.com/o2GN8Ur.png

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/732361469992574976/K-jDlRjs_400x400.jpg

davef
13-02-18, 22:37
Indian/South Asian

Jovialis
14-02-18, 02:52
I don't have a clue.

btw, I saw your profile pic, is that you? You look very much like a friend I had in high school, he was also Czech.

IronSide
14-02-18, 09:14
I eliminate northern Europe, East Asia, and all of Africa.

His pigmentation doesn't make him South Asian, and if he was north Indian or Pakistani he would have a very different nose.

Not Arabian.

what remains is the core parts of the Near East and and southern Europe, but there is something East Asian in him ...

1- he is Turkish. or
2- somewhere in Latin America.

The girl in the second picture can fit anywhere in the Near East or Mediterranean Europe, she reminds me of one of my cousins.

davef
15-02-18, 14:03
Is he mixed, avarex?

avarex
15-02-18, 21:04
He's actually a Greek from the Dodecanese island group, 3/4's Karpathian, with a paternal link to Rhodes. I'm particularly interested in this island cluster, particularly the two aforementioned islands as they produce some bizzare and disparate phenotypes. The boy in the picture is not mixed (for all he knows as his family speaks and identifies as Karpathian Greek), but is never presumed to originate from Greece when superficially analyzed. How do you think he ended up with such a ethnically ambiguous look?

Jovialis
15-02-18, 21:32
I don't have a clue.

btw, I saw your profile pic, is that you? You look very much like a friend I had in high school, he was also Czech.

Avarex, just in case you missed my posted, I was just curious if that was you in the picture on your profile. I'm interested to know, because you look almost exactly like this person I knew from high school.

avarex
15-02-18, 22:05
Sorry Jovialis, the picture was found online. I didnt have a good picture of myself at the time, and I thought he looked like an average person from my country. I believe he is a low tier athlete of some sort, will try to find his information.

Jovialis
15-02-18, 23:09
Sorry Jovialis, the picture was found online. I didnt have a good picture of myself at the time, and I thought he looked like an average person from my country. I believe he is a low tier athlete of some sort, will try to find his information.

I see. But I must say, that's rather peculiar to use some random low-tier athlete as a profile picture. While it's not technically against the rules, I hope your intention was not to deceive people into thinking that was you. But I also find it peculiar that I had to ask you twice before you addressed it...

avarex
15-02-18, 23:59
Oh

I'll post a picture myself now then. This wasn't intended to be permanent, I was under the impression that a picture was needed to validate the account. As i created the account from my phone, I didn't have a picture of myself saved.

Carlos
16-02-18, 00:41
I see it as from Spanish-speaking America. The lips are very thick, the face very long and the nostrils somewhat wide, in no way could it seem of the European Mediterranean. The eyes are very wide apart, perhaps he has an ancestor from northern Europe. I see Asian American features, and some European nordic, maybe also Arab and Jewish.

Angela
16-02-18, 01:08
He doesn't look Greek at all, although the girl does. I would also say New World Hispanic mix of some sort. There are a lot of people who look like that.

Pictures should not be used for guessing games unless one is sure of 100% of the ancestry, especially if the image is discordant with the appearance of most people of that ancestry.

We don't want to be accused of harboring t-rolls, in this case against Greeks.

Jovialis
16-02-18, 01:22
He doesn't look Greek at all, although the girl does. I would also say New World Hispanic mix of some sort. There are a lot of people who look like that.

Pictures should not be used for guessing games unless one is sure of 100% of the ancestry, especially if the image is discordant with the appearance of most people of that ancestry.

We don't want to be accused of harboring t-rolls, in this case against Greeks.

Indeed, he does not look Greek. If he's even truly a Greek, since the validity of his actual identity is dubious.

avarex
16-02-18, 02:32
I am in a relationship with a Karpathian girl from the village he derives from.
Believe it or not, the boy in the photo's look is not an outlier on his island. It is however discordant with the look of other Greeks, particularly mainlanders. What I'm trying to deduce is what could cause this. The girl in the photo is indeed his biological sister by the way.

Angela
16-02-18, 02:45
http://c8.alamy.com/comp/BB42J5/greek-island-karpathos-woman-with-traditional-dress-in-the-mountain-BB42J5.jpg

https://www.lifebeyondbordersblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Traditional-Greek-Island-of-Karpathos-LifeBeyondBorders.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/3a/90/43/3a9043685a8914cc152c7cfe278557f8--karpathos-greece-islands.jpg

http://amoopi-nymfes.gr/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/olympos-karpathos.jpg

http://c8.alamy.com/comp/D1MY26/women-wearing-traditional-costumes-at-vroukounta-village-karpathos-D1MY26.jpg

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.300476.1314371773!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_750/amd-karpathos-woman-jpg.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/bf/36/a8/bf36a858c84bc9e03369fdddae7113e4.jpg

These are the pictures as they came up, in order, none excluded, if you go to Bing and type in people of Karpathos.

To my eye, the only one that looks a bit like him is the girl on the left in the fourth photo.

avarex
16-02-18, 03:02
Those are mainly Karpathians from Olymbos, the cultural tourist site of the island said to be a cultural time capsule of the past due to its relative inaccessibility as it is treachoursly buried in the northern mountains of the island. This village has undergone touristic changes in the 20th century, and it's fidelity to the past has been distorted; garb especially.
-
The village in question is named Spoa, not Olymbos. If pictures are needed to validate his origin, I can post them.

Angela
16-02-18, 04:19
Those are mainly Karpathians from Olymbos, the cultural tourist site of the island said to be a cultural time capsule of the past due to its relative inaccessibility as it is treachoursly buried in the northern mountains of the island. This village has undergone touristic changes in the 20th century, and it's fidelity to the past has been distorted; garb especially.
-
The village in question is named Spoa, not Olymbos. If pictures are needed to validate his origin, I can post them.

No need. I just think it's going a bit far to say his is a common look on that island. The people who come up just look like Southern Europeans, and more specifically like Greeks to me, with the exception of perhaps the last girl, which he does not, imo.

On the other hand, occurrences of unusual looks for an area are not limited to the Greek Islands, so it's perfectly possible. We have some positively Cro-Magnon looking types in my own area who look totally out of place in terms of bone structure.

avarex
16-02-18, 06:59
https://i.imgur.com/z97bpZz.png
https://i.imgur.com/3NsNrGx.png

avarex
16-02-18, 07:23
https://i.imgur.com/yUs8kvW.png
https://i.imgur.com/iCfrseb.png
https://i.imgur.com/m1YMox3.png

avarex
16-02-18, 07:47
https://i.imgur.com/SaCpa0v.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/CxLdXEb.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/1mujeZX.png

avarex
16-02-18, 08:03
https://i.imgur.com/evo6TW2.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/9PxFyOX.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/UyBBZqr.jpg


These are just a few villagers from Spoa, mainly from the Matangos, Sakellis, & Tsambounieri families. If accusations of cherrypicking are made, I will happily post more as there is an abundance of similar looking individuals. What I hope to accomplish here is to illustrate through volume that the original boy is not necessarily an outlier on the island.

Yetos
16-02-18, 08:35
@ Avarex the look seems pretty Midlle Eastern, with Indian and Arab admixture,

the most possible could be either a migration of Christians from the times of islamic expansion to what was seleykid empire
or even further East,
maybe a group of Greek intermarriages that return Back.
either a group that followed Knights/Templars to Dodecanese,
or even a newer devastation.

the possibility to be a pre-Greek pop is it checked?

avarex
16-02-18, 09:02
@yetos, thank you for your response!

From what I known, these Karpathians far predate the 20th century population exchange, thus this look does not derive from hellenized anatolians nor gypsys,
Also the extent of them being early neolithic, pre-Greek is most likely insignificant.

can you please elaborate on where do you think they came from?

Yetos
16-02-18, 10:59
@yetos, thank you for your response!

From what I known, these Karpathians far predate the 20th century population exchange, thus this look does not derive from hellenized anatolians nor gypsys,
Also the extent of them being early neolithic, pre-Greek is most likely insignificant.

can you please elaborate on where do you think they came from?

if we exclude and we are certain that not pre-Greek population,
then the only possible is to be Hellenised population from Antique,
Christians from the areas that Islam expand, like Syrria or Turkey/Armenia/ Iraq or more far East or South.
there were migrations from Egypt Jordania and Syrria at 6-8th century,
For example mt Athos is the replacement of the Egyptian desert monks
the first monks were at Egypt, then Kappadokia, and then moved to Athos


if they are connected with Rhodos island,
they can also be populations that came with return of Crusaders,
or Knights, as υποστατικοι. (protected Servicing-support communities)

but better serch if they are ancient population,
especially their autosomals, they may even say how long time are in the area
they also have a look of S Caucasian areas.
do they use an endonym for their villages, or have they any special vocabulary?

They have an Anatolian phenotype also,
my mind is going either to pre-Mycenean era,
either the Byzantine era, from 7th century Ad till Matzikert 12th century,
there were moves of populations that era due to expand of Islam and Turks.
I mean they could also be from Killikia and moved West then times of Seljuks
,
but primary is an autosomal search so to exclude possible Neolithic population.

avarex
16-02-18, 11:19
if we exclude and we are certain that not pre-Greek population,
then the only possible is to be Hellenised population from Antique,
Christians from the areas that Islam expand, like Syrria or Turkey/Armenia/ Iraq or more far East or South.
there were migrations from Egypt Jordania and Syrria at 6-8th century,
For example mt Athos is the replacement of the Egyptian desert monks
the first monks were at Egypt, then Kappadokia, and then moved to Athos


if they are connected with Rhodos island,
they can also be populations that came with return of Crusaders,
or Knights, as υποστατικοι.

but better serch if they are ancient population,
they also have a look of S Caucasian areas.

do they use an endonym for their villages, or have they any special vocabulary?


They do indeed have a special vocabulary. A word that comes to mind in particular is 'daraho', which seems to be a loanword from East Armenian & Syriac. The word is used in the phrase "to kako sou daraho", which may translate to "go fall off a hill/mountain" as the 'dara' translates to hill in Old Armenian. Spoa is also tucked in the mountains at a high altitude.

Jovialis
16-02-18, 12:43
@Avarex, I don't know what part of "no need" do you not understand. Enough with this obvious t-roll thread of unverified cherry picked individuals.

ΠΑΝΑΞ
25-02-18, 21:17
(For pictures at post #1 boy & girl)
For me they are both very "greek" and I am familiarized with
Both are very "Aegean" but I think that also you can find at Ionian also and mainland. Nothing strange for me at this pictures.
I would classify him as Mediterranid Armenoid at possible 70/30 or 80/20 and maybe few Iranoid; ~ 10<less;
As well for the girl also more or less the same. There is absent of the Alpine and Dinarid features to both.
They well fell to both sides of Aegean and very well to Cypriots.


And yes the girl is beauty (Paparizou like -Thessalian mare!)


(for fun)
I imagine and speculate that -the stock like- was present at Cyclades -maybe- and I imagine him -from the first pionners- to habitate the islands. Later he could be Hettite; or Lycian; or Kares; and yes, finally maybe he's not far from the first farmers of the region.


https://i.imgur.com/o2GN8Ur.pnghttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9d/Athens_-_Sacred_Gate_kouros_01.jpg/488px-Athens_-_Sacred_Gate_kouros_01.jpg


That "amygdalon"-almond- shaped eyes and faces are very unigue and very common to Greece, Aegean and Anatolia.

johen
26-02-18, 03:01
(For pictures at post #1 boy & girl)
For me they are both very "greek" and I am familiarized with
Both are very "Aegean" but I think that also you can find at Ionian also and mainland. Nothing strange for me at this pictures.
I would classify him as Mediterranid Armenoid at possible 70/30 or 80/20 and maybe few Iranoid; ~ 10<less;
As well for the girl also more or less the same. There is absent of the Alpine and Dinarid features to both.
They well fell to both sides of Aegean and very well to Cypriots.

I imagine and speculate that -the stock like- was present at Cyclades -maybe- and I imagine him -from the first pionners- to habitate the islands. Later he could be Hettite; or Lycian; or Kares; and yes, finally maybe he's not far from the first farmers of the region.


https://i.imgur.com/o2GN8Ur.png


That "amygdalon"-almond- shaped eyes and faces are very unigue and very common to Greece, Aegean and Anatolia.



1. I think the cromagnon type people entered the Greece at bronze age and mixed with local farmers. I think we need their gene next time from Harvard.


I have located the text (http://thesis.ekt.gr/thesisBookReader/id/2665#page/10/mode/2up) of George Panagiaris important 1993 doctoral thesis on Greek skeletal material. This may be one of the most comprehensive efforts to study the Ancient Greek population from a physical anthropological perspective (413 male and 354 female crania, using 65 biometric characters as well odontological traits).

Panagiaris' conclusions in English can be found in p.10 of the document. He confirms that the greater period of discontinuity in the material is observed during the Helladic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helladic_period) period (=Bronze Age in Greek archaeology), where broad-headed incoming groups appear, side by side with the older Mediterranean population. He attributes this to the arrival of such people from the highlands Pindos range, although he sees the possibility of Anatolian influences as well, but has no comparative data. He cites the tendency for broader skulls in higher latitudes, although this general trend in H. sapiens probably does not explain the local trend within Caucasoids where the key difference is between mountaineers (where the Alpine, Dinaric, Armenoid, and Pamir-Ferghana types are well-represented) and lowland folk. Perhaps, if various ancient DNA projects manage to study some Greek material we may be able to ascertain the events that were taking place in Greece at that time.
http://dienekes.blogspot.ca/2012/07/a-physico-anthropological-study-of.html
https://mathildasanthropologyblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/brace-2.jpg

2. As I already said in the other thread, I think this type of people already disappeared in East Europe since bronze age by mixing. See the first one is yamna/afanasievo type, and second one is the Pamir-Ferghana types (or Andronovo). I think the new people might bring the almond eyes. I posted ancient people with big almond eyes several times.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e181/Borntobeking/2-2.jpg (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/Borntobeking/media/2-2.jpg.html)

Yetos
26-02-18, 06:58
Personally I believe that they might be an early Neolithic population,
But Avarex is certain that this possibility is insignificant.

johen
28-02-18, 22:27
where could he pass? presumed origin? taxonomy?

https://i.imgur.com/o2GN8Ur.png
http://arthistoryresources.net/greek-art-archaeology-2016/greek-art-archaeology-images/mycenaefemalehead.jpg


Female Head from Mycenae c. 1300-1200 BCE (LH IIIB) Painted Plaster Height 63/5 inches (National Archaeological Museum, Athens)
http://arthistoryresources.net/greek-art-archaeology-2016/mycenaean-sculpture.html

== > but she has more, 4 sun marks like kalash people.
http://www.hinduhumanrights.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/la-1223-pin06-970x500.jpg
http://www.hinduhumanrights.info/pakistans-polytheistic-kalash-tribe-threatened-with-death-by-taliban/

johen
01-03-18, 06:08
http://arthistoryresources.net/greek-art-archaeology-2016/greek-art-archaeology-images/mycenaefemalehead.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/MaskOfAgamemnon.jpg

at the similar time around 2,000Bc, the big almond eye people with gold mask appeared in ancient China, who might be speaking Indo European Language
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/33257-upside-down-pyramids
http://www.ancient-origins.net/sites/default/files/bronze-heads-Sanxingdui-china.jpg
http://www.ancient-origins.net/unexplained-phenomena/mysterious-ancient-artefacts-sanxingdui-have-rewritten-chinese-history-001495

dinaric or armenoid?
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/WL4AAOSwETJaHrVj/s-l1600.jpg
https://picclick.com/Old-Chinese-Pure-Bronze-Ancient-Sanxingdui-culture-man-182934531111.html

big ear
http://greeklatin.cua.edu/res/images/decorative-images/sacred-gate-kouros.jpg
http://greeklatin.cua.edu/undergrad/seniorproject.cfm

minoan skull
http://www.aee.gr/english/8other_research/microc1.gif
http://www.aee.gr/english/8other_research/a_minoan_microcephalic.html

P.s

Maybe this one would be a female, considering hair style and hair band. ear also?
http://www.chinareisen.de/userfiles/chinareisen.de/7%20Dem%20Himmel%20So%20Nah%20-%20Qomolangma,%20Kailash%20Reisen%20und%20Trekking/2014%20Gruppenreisen/TQ15CTUCTU%20Dem%20Himmel%20so%20nah,%20DI-DI/Dem%20Himmel%20so%20nah%2015%20Tage_4.jpg
http://www.chinareisen.de/761-Dem-Himmel-so-nah-Tibet-Nepal-Rundreise-ohne-Flug.html


http://catherinemayoauthor.com/a/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Mycenaean-women.jpg

johen
02-03-18, 05:31
http://arthistoryresources.net/greek-art-archaeology-2016/greek-art-archaeology-images/mycenaefemalehead.jpg


Tradition continues or not? snow-white in Kosovo, Bulgaria. looks like ancient Greek lady had a bridal makeup, didn't she?

https://iadsb.tmgrup.com.tr/b6dc41/645/344/0/54/1000/586?u=https://idsb.tmgrup.com.tr/2017/08/28/1503951431773.jpg
https://www.etar.org/kalendar/kal2010/svatbi/5.jpg
https://www.dailysabah.com/history/2017/08/29/traditional-bridal-makeup-in-kosovo-intrigues-tourists-academics
https://www.etar.org/kalendar/kal2010/svatbi/svatbien.htm

Johane Derite
02-03-18, 14:05
Tradition continues or not? snow-white in Kosovo, Bulgaria. looks like ancient Greek lady had a bridal makeup, didn't she?

https://iadsb.tmgrup.com.tr/b6dc41/645/344/0/54/1000/586?u=https://idsb.tmgrup.com.tr/2017/08/28/1503951431773.jpg
https://www.etar.org/kalendar/kal2010/svatbi/5.jpg
https://www.dailysabah.com/history/2017/08/29/traditional-bridal-makeup-in-kosovo-intrigues-tourists-academics
https://www.etar.org/kalendar/kal2010/svatbi/svatbien.htm

Great find. Yeah in some places in Kosova they still do this:


https://youtu.be/36iwoPWPCfE

Johane Derite
02-03-18, 14:09
Tradition continues or not? snow-white in Kosovo, Bulgaria. looks like ancient Greek lady had a bridal makeup, didn't she?

https://iadsb.tmgrup.com.tr/b6dc41/645/344/0/54/1000/586?u=https://idsb.tmgrup.com.tr/2017/08/28/1503951431773.jpg
https://www.etar.org/kalendar/kal2010/svatbi/5.jpg
https://www.dailysabah.com/history/2017/08/29/traditional-bridal-makeup-in-kosovo-intrigues-tourists-academics
https://www.etar.org/kalendar/kal2010/svatbi/svatbien.htm


https://youtu.be/jSwFNkWs3NU

johen
02-03-18, 23:09
https://youtu.be/36iwoPWPCfE

who are this people? They have still kept ancient greek clothing patterns.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/Exaleiptron_birth_Athena_Louvre_CA616.jpg