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Angela
28-02-18, 17:54
I saw this announcement about 23andme.

"23andMe is getting more specific with its DNA ancestry tests, adding 120 new regions"
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/28/23andme-adds-120-new-regions-to-its-ancestry-test.html

Has anyone seen any change in their results yet?

Salento
28-02-18, 18:01
Negative. Still the same. [emoji30]

Promenade
28-02-18, 20:51
It says you can expect to access it in "the coming weeks" in the article

Jovialis
01-03-18, 15:31
This was on their blog:

https://i.imgur.com/CMtlmMe.png
https://i.imgur.com/RKg05hM.png
https://i.imgur.com/e0oL7OD.png


https://i.imgur.com/IGIYZTc.png
https://i.imgur.com/a3dHUuy.png
https://i.imgur.com/cm3jTtM.png

https://blog.23andme.com/ancestry/23andme-updates-ancestry-composition/

Angela
01-03-18, 17:21
It looks like they've added a lot of African regions, which is good news, particularly for their American customer base.

Also, looks like refined IBD analysis of some sort. We'll see how good it is. Some of us actually know who our ancestors were for the last 500 years.

If they're going to change the labels I hope they fix up the labeling in the Near East. There are still, believe it or not, people out there who don't get that "North Africa" in their scheme includes Palestinians, Jordanians, Saudis.

I also hope they take another look at how to divide up the countries between North Africa and the "Middle East". Since the publication of the paper on the ancient Egyptians, I do get how Egypt and Palestinians, Jordanians, and Saudis could group together, but the latter Levantine populations don't really cluster with Tunisia for example. Too much time and drift has passed since their common ancient ancestors. Maybe they need three groupings, although I know how tricky it would be as to dividing up the Levant populations.

mwauthy
02-03-18, 15:18
Looks like this is 23andMe’s marketing response to Ancestry’s Genetic Communities. Competition between these companies is good for the consumer. However, I believe the future lies in what Living DNA is doing which is regional breakdowns within nationalistic borders.

If I had my own company I would try to differentiate myself from my competitors by testing even more snps not less. This is what confounds me about all these companies adopting imputation. The future of the industry lies in more accuracy which I believe lies in more regions and more snps.

Jovialis
05-03-18, 11:51
I checked again, and they updated the blog. Here's a list of new regional ancestries they're going to include. However, it doesn't look like all of them, I believe:


List of Regions and Countries Included in this Ancestry Composition Update

Afghanistan

Albania

Egypt

American Samoa

Argentina

Armenia

Aruba

Austria

Azerbaijan

Morocco

Bangladesh

Belarus

Belgium

Belize

Bolivia

Bosnia and Herzegovina

Brazil

Bulgaria

Cabo Verde

Cambodia

Cameroon

Chile

China

Colombia

Costa Rica

Croatia

Cuba

Cyprus

Czechia

Denmark

Dominican Republic

Ecuador

Algeria

El Salvador

Eritrea

Estonia

Ethiopia

Fiji

France

Georgia

Germany

Ghana

Greece

Guam

Guatemala

Honduras

Hong Kong

Hungary

Iceland

India

Indonesia

Iran, Islamic Republic of

Iraq

Ireland

Italy

Saudi Arabia

Kazakhstan

Kenya

Korea, Democratic People’s Republic of

Korea, Republic of

Tunisia

Kyrgyzstan

Lao People’s Democratic Republic

Latvia

Lebanon

Liberia

Yemen

Lithuania

Luxembourg

Macedonia, Republic of

Malaysia

Malta

Mauritius

Mexico

Moldova, Republic of

Mongolia

Montenegro

Jordan

Myanmar

Nepal

Netherlands

Nicaragua

Nigeria

Norway

Pakistan

Panama

Paraguay

Peru

Philippines

Poland

Portugal

Puerto Rico

Romania

Russian Federation

Samoa

Kuwait

Serbia

Singapore

Slovakia

Slovenia

Somalia

Spain

Sri Lanka

Sudan

Sweden

Switzerland

Syrian Arab Republic

Taiwan, Province of China

Thailand

Tonga

Libya

Turkey

Ukraine

United Arab Emirates

United Kingdom

Uruguay

Uzbekistan

Venezuela

Viet Nam

Bahrain

https://blog.23andme.com/ancestry/23andme-updates-ancestry-composition/

davef
05-03-18, 13:44
Looks like this is 23andMe’s marketing response to Ancestry’s Genetic Communities. Competition between these companies is good for the consumer. However, I believe the future lies in what Living DNA is doing which is regional breakdowns within nationalistic borders.

If I had my own company I would try to differentiate myself from my competitors by testing even more snps not less. This is what confounds me about all these companies adopting imputation. The future of the industry lies in more accuracy which I believe lies in more regions and more snps.

I don't even know if I should even spend money on these things if they're expected to produce different results each time, like say you're 1/2 English 1/2 French and after the first time you take a 23 and me test you get exactly that, then the next version of 23 and me rolls around and says 25 percent English, 12.5 percent Russian and 62.5 percent French. Then again I'm not sure if getting results that are that different is even possible.

I can see how people who were adopted would find these things useful.

mwauthy
05-03-18, 15:04
I don't even know if I should even spend money on these things if they're expected to produce different results each time, like say you're 1/2 English 1/2 French and after the first time you take a 23 and me test you get exactly that, then the next version of 23 and me rolls around and says 25 percent English, 12.5 percent Russian and 62.5 percent French. Then again I'm not sure if getting results that are that different is even possible.

I can see how people who were adopted would find these things useful.

One positive thing that came out of all these conflicting ethnicity estimates is that they pushed me to put the work into digging deeper into my family tree. On my mom’s French Canadian side I am researching the particular location in France where each of her 400 or so ancestors came from in the 17th century. It is tedious but also very informative.

An ethnicity report is no substitute for a well researched family tree. All ethnicity reports do is show how neighboring regions share similarities. I suppose looking at a map though could accomplish the same objective.

Angela
05-03-18, 15:11
I checked again, and they updated the blog. Here's a list of new regional ancestries they're going to include. However, it doesn't look like all of them, I believe:

Well, they're getting pretty darn specific! Aruba? They must have really increased their sample base. Let's see if it's accurate. Now I'm interested to see what will change. Can I get more Italian? I'm at 72.5% currently. However, if it's supposed to be the last 500 years it should be 100%.

davef
05-03-18, 16:33
Wow, does Italian still mean southern Italian? If not, then 23 and me would be even worse for me.

mwauthy, thanks. I'll add that my only motivation to do these is to find out my ancient percentages (farmer, steppe, hunter gatherer).

Angela
05-03-18, 16:38
I guess you've forgotten. We've discussed this a lot here: the centrum now seems to be around Toscana/Lazio. In my case, the remainder is single digit Iberian and the rest is northwest European.

davef
05-03-18, 16:51
Thanks, yes i did forget. I apologize

Angela
05-03-18, 17:03
Everybody forgets some things. Otherwise we'd be computers.

AdeoF
05-03-18, 17:20
Hmm maybe I should get a 23 and me out soon. I can see how much Spanish I got!! (And also how much italian or english)

Jovialis
05-03-18, 18:02
https://i.imgur.com/Ncy01ch.png

Saw this in the comments section.

zanipolo
05-03-18, 21:05
i have 27% italian starting at 1870
father has 32% starting at 1870
gfather has 21% starting at 1810

Angela
05-03-18, 21:13
i have 27% italian starting at 1870
father has 32% starting at 1870
gfather has 21% starting at 1810

Have you updated from the old versions? In other words, which "V" is it?

On the prior version I was only 50% Italian, and that's at the most speculative setting. On the V5 72% Italian. I think the old ones are really out of date.

You do realize, also, that this is because they have no academic and achingly few client samples from the Veneto, yes?

What it's actually telling you if it's the old version is that your father is about 32% Lazio to Sicily.

I would ignore the dates: they're meaningless.

zanipolo
05-03-18, 22:40
i have 27% italian starting at 1870
father has 32% starting at 1870
gfather has 21% starting at 1810

v4


European 99.5%
Southern European 51.3%
Italian 27.7%
Iberian 5.9%
Broadly Southern European 17.8%
Northwestern European 39.1%
French & German 20.7%
Broadly Northwestern European 18.4%
Ashkenazi Jewish 0.1%
Broadly European 8.9%

AdeoF
07-03-18, 19:59
i just ordered mine, i hope it uses the V5 chip (it was on offer so why not)

Angela
07-03-18, 20:17
We get it, Zanipolo, neither "you" nor "your father" want to be considered Italian. No wonder you were all original Lega Nord members.

Alpine-Illyrian, right! :)

Sile
07-03-18, 21:58
We get it, Zanipolo, neither "you" nor "your father" want to be considered Italian. No wonder you were all original Lega Nord members.

Alpine-Illyrian, right! :)

so someone's 23andme ethnicity results is the source that dictates which nationality they can be! .............by this method there should be no australians

Jovialis
07-03-18, 22:09
so someone's 23andme ethnicity results is the source that dictates which nationality they can be! .............by this method there should be no australians

Italian is not just a nationality, it's also an ethnicity, and obviously you try to down play it.

Sile
07-03-18, 22:34
Italian is not just a nationality, it's also an ethnicity, and obviously you try to down play it.
I do not know what you are looking for in an admixture program, but clearly , everyone I know, knows their own nationality, so they try different admixture programs to find out where their line came from. Isn't this the basis of an admixture program! or am I wrong.

I do not down play any of it.............I follow what the Italian Constitution states and its terms of what is an Italian.

Jovialis
07-03-18, 22:48
I do not know what you are looking for in an admixture program, but clearly , everyone I know, knows their own nationality, so they try different admixture programs to find out where their line came from. Isn't this the basis of an admixture program! or am I wrong.

I do not down play any of it.............I follow what the Italian Constitution states and its terms of what is an Italian.

Just going by your 23andme results from v4 that your "son" posted, a critical mass of your genetics are similar to that of an Italian, which by that centrum means similar from Lazio to Sicily. Not to mention the "broadly southern European" which is also basically Italian that hasn't been yet classified as such. So what does that make, 50% or more? Being that you're an original Lega Nord supporter, how do you like that?

Sile
07-03-18, 23:22
Just going by your 23andme results from v4 that your "son" posted, a critical mass of your genetics are similar to that of an Italian, which by that centrum means similar from Lazio to Sicily. Not to mention the "broadly southern European" which is also basically Italian that hasn't been yet classified as such. So what does that make, 50% or more? Being that you're an original Lega Nord supporter, how do you like that?
They are Not my results, they are his.....my 23andme test was version 3
and what are you trying to say .........my son will say nationally he is only Australian..............and does a vote for a certain political party indicate if one is Italian or not!
I think you are confused of what is Italian nationality and what is italian ethnicity . The constitution states that Italian Nationality only began in 1861 , clearly Italian ethnicity is very much older ............if you want these admixture results to indicate nationality , you need to talk to the programmers and make a change
There were no Italian citizens prior to 17 March 1861,
Why do you want people whose ethnicity in these types of programs declare themselves italian or any other race ...........is it because the do not reach 50% italian ?
here is my sons, Myheritage results..........clearly far better results than 23andme
Europe 100.0%
South Europe 76.6%
Italian 64.7%
Iberian 11.9%
East Europe 23.4%
East European 16.4%
Balkan 7.0%

Jovialis
08-03-18, 07:14
^^
We're talking about genetics. V3 and V4 of 23andme have the same centrum for what they classify as the Italian component. As I stated before, those versions of the component actually represents Southern Italian genetic samples. It was only in V5 that 23andme put the centrum for Italian by what seems to be the Tuscan to Lazio regions. So what I'm saying is that a critical mass or more (if you consider the "Broadly Southern European" too) of your genetics is similar to people from Lazio to Sicily, according to V3. Which is why I asked you, as you are an original Lega Nord member, "what do you think about that?".

davef
08-03-18, 07:21
Sile, there's no doubt in my mind you're Australian in terms of nationality! You're biologically or genetically Venetian Italian but that doesn't take away your status as an Australian national in the same way the typical British Australian being close to British people doesn't take away from their status as Australian nationals.

AdeoF
08-03-18, 11:56
Yep I got British citizenship but northen Spanish admixture. I feel both to be honest so I understand davef very well

Sile
08-03-18, 17:07
^^
We're talking about genetics. V3 and V4 of 23andme have the same centrum for what they classify as the Italian component. As I stated before, those versions of the component actually represents Southern Italian genetic samples. It was only in V5 that 23andme put the centrum for Italian by what seems to be the Tuscan to Lazio regions. So what I'm saying is that a critical mass or more (if you consider the "Broadly Southern European" too) of your genetics is similar to people from Lazio to Sicily, according to V3. Which is why I asked you, as you are an original Lega Nord member, "what do you think about that?".

I have always maintained that 23andme is rubbish and slightly better than ancestry..........i only joined because v3 had medical reports, but even those in some cases are 100 % wrong.

i think , since you know a lot about broadly southern european being italian , then its fine with me..............so does one get upgraded to v5 as i do not want to waste my money with the company

DuPidh
08-03-18, 19:10
They are Not my results, they are his.....my 23andme test was version 3
and what are you trying to say .........my son will say nationally he is only Australian..............and does a vote for a certain political party indicate if one is Italian or not!
I think you are confused of what is Italian nationality and what is italian ethnicity . The constitution states that Italian Nationality only began in 1861 , clearly Italian ethnicity is very much older ............if you want these admixture results to indicate nationality , you need to talk to the programmers and make a change
There were no Italian citizens prior to 17 March 1861,
Why do you want people whose ethnicity in these types of programs declare themselves italian or any other race ...........is it because the do not reach 50% italian ?
here is my sons, Myheritage results..........clearly far better results than 23andme
Europe 100.0%
South Europe 76.6%
Italian 64.7%
Iberian 11.9%
East Europe 23.4%
East European 16.4%
Balkan 7.0%
is this the new regional reporting or its not out yet?

davef
08-03-18, 20:33
Yep I got British citizenship but northen Spanish admixture. I feel both to be honest so I understand davef very well
Thank you!

Jovialis
23-03-18, 02:55
Here's a little update they made to their blog, where they organize the new additions by geographical region.

https://blog.23andme.com/ancestry/23andme-updates-ancestry-composition/

Angela
23-03-18, 02:59
Here's a little update they made to their blog, where they organize the new additions by geographical region.

https://blog.23andme.com/ancestry/23andme-updates-ancestry-composition/

Didn't they used to have Palestinians going along with Jordan?

Jovialis
23-03-18, 03:06
Didn't they used to have Palestinians going along with Jordan?

Indeed, this is from the current ancestry composition populations they have up.

https://i.imgur.com/9m9AGoi.png

Angela
23-03-18, 03:11
Indeed, this is from the current ancestry composition populations they have up.

https://i.imgur.com/9m9AGoi.png

Maybe it's just a typo. I don't know why they'd drop reference populations. I've always felt, though, that it's tricky diving up the Levant the way that they do, with Palestinians and Jordanians going with North Africans and Druze, Lebanese and Syrians going with Caucasus populations. It's just a matter of degree, I suppose, with Palestinians and Jordanians having less "Caucasus" compered to Lebanese and Syrians. I wonder if part of it is also that some Palestinians and Jordanians have more SSA.

Jovialis
23-03-18, 04:01
Maybe it's just a typo. I don't know why they'd drop reference populations. I've always felt, though, that it's tricky diving up the Levant the way that they do, with Palestinians and Jordanians going with North Africans and Druze, Lebanese and Syrians going with Caucasus populations. It's just a matter of degree, I suppose, with Palestinians and Jordanians having less "Caucasus" compered to Lebanese and Syrians. I wonder if part of it is also that some Palestinians and Jordanians have more SSA.

I just sent an e-mail to the 23andme support staff inquiring about it.

mwauthy
23-03-18, 14:29
I don’t understand why it’s going to take months to update everyone? Other companies like FTDNA updated everyone at once. I think Ancestry took a few weeks. Gencove was everyone at once. They sent an email too which was nice.

If it’s going to take months they should’ve waited to make any announcements. It’s like reminding a kid about Christmas in July. What’s the point to draw their attention to it so early? They should at least send an email to the person when their account is updated to avoid the random daily or weekly checking.

Jovialis
27-03-18, 00:49
I just sent an e-mail to the 23andme support staff inquiring about it.

Still haven't heard back from the company in regards to my e-mail. I called them, but I didn't get much of a clear answer, but she assured me someone will respond eventually.

Also, the person I spoke to said the update should be rolling out within 1 to 2 months for all of it's users.

Jovialis
28-03-18, 19:15
Here's the response:

https://i.imgur.com/0Cq1Ix3.png

mwauthy
31-03-18, 16:42
Here's the response:

https://i.imgur.com/0Cq1Ix3.png

At this point I don’t really care to keep checking everyday. Maybe I’ll check again in a month from now lol.

Jovialis
31-03-18, 18:09
At this point I don’t really care to keep checking everyday. Maybe I’ll check again in a month from now lol.

If it's only going back 200 years, to the early 19th century, it should say I'm 100% Italian. It's going back 9 generations, to your great-great-great-great-great-great grandparents. I didn't know them or have a tree to confirm (though I'd like to make one soon), but my grand parents knew their grand parents; and they were Italian. I knew my great-grandmother too.

christa
31-03-18, 19:50
If it's only going back 200 years, to the early 19th century, it should say I'm 100% Italian. It's going back 9 generations, to your great-great-great-great-great-great grandparents. I didn't know them or have a tree to confirm (though I'd like to make one soon), but my grand parents knew their grand parents; and they were Italian. I knew my great-grandmother too.

I'm Apulian, I have dots only on Italy. It's correct since I have only italians ancestors in the last 200 years.

christa
31-03-18, 20:01
My results:


European98.8%

Italian57.3%

Italy
We predict you had ancestors that lived in Italy within the last 200 years.


Balkan30.5%



Ashkenazi Jewish0.3%



Broadly Southern European10.2%



Broadly European0.5%



Western Asian & North African1.0%

Western Asian0.7%



Broadly Western Asian & North African0.4%



Unassigned0.2%

Salento
31-03-18, 20:13
I'm Apulian, I have dots only on Italy. It's correct since I have only italians ancestors in the last 200 years.

If your Ancestors are all Pugliesi it would be also interesting if you post the results of the Italian dots.

christa
31-03-18, 20:39
I have only 4 dots on Italy. Nothing for other ethnicities.
In last 200 years my ancestors are all central Apulia (Bari province) and someone of Basilicata.Far ancestors from others Nations.

christa
31-03-18, 20:47
I can not put the picture

Salento
31-03-18, 20:58
Thank you Christa :)
(New members must write a few posts before are allowed to link pictures. rules .... )

ToBeOrNotToBe
01-04-18, 00:48
Also, a refinement of the Ancestry timeline. Before the update, 23andme predicted I had an E. European ancestor - now, despite my EE % remaining the same (at 0.7%), they basically did better maths and realised that (and I've done the maths) as this 0.7% was on my X DNA (looks about 25% of it), the very very earliest I could have had an E. European ancestor (at least from the ancestry composition from 23andme) is 8 generations.EDIT: Actually, I've just realised that 23andme is without a doubt wrong about that Eastern Euro admix. full stop. I'll attach an imgur link below, but basically, from my understanding of X DNA inheritance, the earliest I could have had a fully Eastern European ancestor is 3 generations ago (absolutely impossible given my genealogy and admix.), and the latest is 5 generations ago (extremely unlikely given my admix. - though genealogy there was lost with the Holocaust). Fyi, my admix. aside from my X chromosome is basically fully Ashkenazi.And no, I'm not saying I have no Eastern European ancestors - just not those who are outside of the Ashkenazi reference population used by 23andme, or at least not any that can possibly show up to an appreciable resolution.

I suppose this is a great example of why not to take genetic testing as gospel.

Oh and as further evidence, on the V4 chip, my Eastern Euro admix. completely disappears above 60% certainty. https://i.imgur.com/uZDVyL3.jpg

ToBeOrNotToBe
01-04-18, 01:42
Actually hold on, I've spotted an error

AdeoF
01-04-18, 01:52
Im waiting for mine, since it says it's going back 500 years it should say over 75% for Spanish for me

ToBeOrNotToBe
01-04-18, 01:56
Actually, no mistake here, on the assumption that this is a single-ancestor convert scenario (the most likely). I am absolutely not getting into scenarios with two EE ancestors, as that becomes far too complicated and I'd have to build a mathematical model for N ancestors to smoothen out the process. But I think it's much more likely to be a single-ancestor convert scenario if anything.My point still stands.

mwauthy
01-04-18, 02:59
I have British Isles percentage in the 20% range on 23andMe so I expect to get some dots in that category. I have zero British Isles ancestry in the last 200 years on paper though.

Sile
04-04-18, 07:42
i have 27% italian starting at 1870
father has 32% starting at 1870
gfather has 21% starting at 1810
new regions added
my son
European 99.5%
Italian 27.7%
French & German 15.7%
Iberian 5.9%
........................................
father
European 99.6%
Italian 21.9%
Balkan 6.3%
French & German 5.5%
Iberian 4.4%
British & Irish 3.2%
Eastern European 0.6%
...............................................

myself

European 99.2%
Italian 30.8%
French & German 18.4%
Balkan 3.4%
Iberian 2.4%
British & Irish 2.2%

Salento
04-04-18, 14:23
To view the dots click on:
“See all tested populations”
No % changes. They only added this:
https://i.imgur.com/y1fTpdy_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium
9960

Tutkun Arnaut
04-04-18, 15:17
To view the dots click on:
“See all tested populations”
No % changes. They only added this:
https://i.imgur.com/y1fTpdy_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium
9960
Explain how it works! What two dots in Albania mean?

Salento
04-04-18, 15:27
Explain how it works! What two dots in Albania mean?
Match Strength

“Match Strength for each region is determined by how much of your DNA you share with people from that region, adjusting for the number of people that we compared you with.”
I guess is some kind of Genetic Communities without a specific location, plus a ratio of Level of Confidence.
The problem with this imho is that 23andme customers are overwhelmingly Americans, so I’m not that sure of the Accuracy of the Results.
https://public.ch.files.1drv.com/y4pFFWnjODbyKS2PMFS-9KCN9UxSCQtxD8aStF04jZ0wJc0LVK1_2hoI3vqz4RN2hSI_Sj EhWlHOqGfW2bq1mflAy4hw-yX7ybCZY-k8NCrLsYeDvHQX47yRWZ9nwBv3My4cXlmOl4KNZzxdde9-070afjtGmYjVtVtZB06UZj_68pUHQPjhEWzB4Jw-i31MwkW/IMG_6595.jpg?psid=1

Tutkun Arnaut
04-04-18, 16:12
Match Strength

“Match Strength for each region is determined by how much of your DNA you share with people from that region, adjusting for the number of people that we compared you with.”
I guess is some kind of Genetic Communities without a specific location, plus a ratio of Level of Confidence.
The problem with this imho is that 23andme customers are overwhelmingly Americans, so I’m not that sure of the Accuracy of the Results.
https://public.ch.files.1drv.com/y4pFFWnjODbyKS2PMFS-9KCN9UxSCQtxD8aStF04jZ0wJc0LVK1_2hoI3vqz4RN2hSI_Sj EhWlHOqGfW2bq1mflAy4hw-yX7ybCZY-k8NCrLsYeDvHQX47yRWZ9nwBv3My4cXlmOl4KNZzxdde9-070afjtGmYjVtVtZB06UZj_68pUHQPjhEWzB4Jw-i31MwkW/IMG_6595.jpg?psid=1
Thank you!

Angela
04-04-18, 17:13
It looks like some kind of IBD analysis comparing you to other people in that group. They don't have very many Italian samples from Puglia, I'm sure, compared to what they have from Britain or Ireland, so it's not going to prove much "match strength". Have they published any sort of paper on this new feature?

Salento
04-04-18, 17:33
It looks like some kind of IBD analysis comparing you to other people in that group. They don't have very many Italian samples from Puglia, I'm sure, compared to what they have from Britain or Ireland, so it's not going to prove much "match strength". Have they published any sort of paper on this new feature?

I looked around the 23 website earlier, I only saw the usual stuff, and the new match strength explanation. Unless I missed it . A relative of mine said that 5 segment of a population are needed to fill 1 Dot, but I don’t know where that info come from, or if it is true.

christa
04-04-18, 18:08
Salento you have only 1 dot for italian. How many match have you in 23andme ?


I have far Slavs and Spanish ancestors but I have no dots for Spain and Balkan.

mwauthy
04-04-18, 19:39
If people receive zero dots for a region then the percentage should be assigned to a “broadly” category. It makes them look contradictory to give me 23% British Isles but zero dots. This is similar to my mom receiving the genetic community of French Canadian on Ancestry but receiving less than 1% Europe West. These companies are getting more accurate with their sub regions but also need to adjust their algorithms to get rid of these obvious contradictions.

I’m half French Canadian and half Wallonia Belgian. I received two dots for Belgium and that’s it. Must be a Flemish reference sample.

Salento
04-04-18, 19:51
Salento you have only 1 dot for italian. How many match have you in 23andme ?


I have far Slavs and Spanish ancestors but I have no dots for Spain and Balkan.

All my 513 DNA Relatives are in the USA 345, Canada 10, and UK 5. (Only 360).
“No Close Family
17 Third to Fourth Cousins
496 Fifth to Distant Cousins”
My results says that I’m more than half Italian, so they know that.
It’s obvious that the 23andme Database doesn’t have many Native European or Italian customers in General.
I’m from Italy/S.Puglia, I’m not aware of any of my relatives in Italy that emigrated to the US.
Majority of “Ancestry of Your DNA Relatives” is French and Germans, British and Irish, Italians, Balkans, Eastern Europeans, Scandinavians, Iberians, in that Order.
It’s almost a Paradox.

Sile
04-04-18, 20:25
new regions added
my son
European 99.5%
Italian 27.7%
French & German 15.7%
Iberian 5.9%
........................................
father
European 99.6%
Italian 21.9%
Balkan 6.3%
French & German 5.5%
Iberian 4.4%
British & Irish 3.2%
Eastern European 0.6%
...............................................
myself
European 99.2%
Italian 30.8%
French & German 18.4%
Balkan 3.4%
Iberian 2.4%
British & Irish 2.2%


we all have and only have for each of us 5 dots for Italian and zero anywhere else

Salento
04-04-18, 20:42
we all have and only have for each of us 5 dots for Italian and zero anywhere else

If you get 30.8 Italian and I get 58.6, than the “dots” results are completely “Out of Whack” lol :)

mwauthy
04-04-18, 21:12
If you get 30.8 Italian and I get 58.6, than the “dots” Results are out of whack. lol :)
I concur! There is no correlation between percentages and dots.

Angela
04-04-18, 21:31
We haven't seen Sile's screenshot with five dots for Italian.

If he does have them, it's because he got a lot of his relatives tested at 23andme.

There is more diversity between any two Italians than between whole regions in Europe.

Read Ralph and Coop.

christa
04-04-18, 21:57
Albanian dots for Salento are ancient illyrian o recent Albanian?

Salento
04-04-18, 22:40
Albanian dots for Salento are ancient illyrian o recent Albanian?
Ancient Illyrians I assume, or maybe a combination of both (Because of The Macedonia dot). Most Pugliesi supposedly are Partially Illyrians, so are the Albanians with their neighbors to the north, and groups of Italians of the Northeast.
http://kilograf.weebly.com/uploads/1/0/8/8/108867953/aaeaaqaaaaaaaaecaaaajde1ogrjodcxltljy2ytndmxni04nj q1lwnhoti5mzqwmgyxnq_orig.jpg

“.... The origin of the Albanians has long been a matter of dispute among historians. Little is known about the ancient Balkan people, and they blended into one another in Thraco-Illyrian and Daco-Thracian contact zones even in antiquity. ...”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Albanians

Balkanite
04-04-18, 22:50
Here are all my dots. Got lots of em.
http://i63.tinypic.com/oppcus.png

Angela
04-04-18, 23:51
Here are all my dots. Got lots of em.
http://i63.tinypic.com/oppcus.png

Balkanite, if I may ask, from where do you get your ancestry, what country in the Balkans? If it were just Albania and you were Albanian it would make sense as the data we have so far indicates a small ancestral group which expanded relatively recently.

The fact it is all those countries just shows the similarity of the people of the Balkans.

Also, do you have a lot of second and third degree cousins on dna relatives?

I ask because I have geneaological trees going back to the 1550s for almost all of my lines, far longer than 200 years, and all of them are from northern Italy, most from an area some have labeled Lunezia.

http://www.theflorentine.net/news/2010/06/what-is-lunezia/

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/9/9a/Lunezia.jpg

However, on 23andme I have very few "relatives" and all of them are third cousins or more. I also haven't been able to get any of my relatives to test.

This is my result:

https://i.imgur.com/WbB4eZ9.png

The .1% is East Asian, and it shows up in every calculator. On Kurd's analysis I get a lot of Scythian so maybe it's a relict of that. The rest is Northwest European of various kinds, no matches at all

blevins13
05-04-18, 00:31
Here are all my dots. Got lots of em.
http://i63.tinypic.com/oppcus.png

Yours is similar to mine9964


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89698)

Balkanite
05-04-18, 00:44
Balkanite, if I may ask, from where do you get your ancestry, what country in the Balkans? If it were just Albania and you were Albanian it would make sense as the data we have so far indicates a small ancestral group which expanded relatively recently.

The fact it is all those countries just shows the similarity of the people of the Balkans.

Also, do you have a lot of second and third degree cousins on dna relatives?

I ask because I have geneaological trees going back to the 1550s for almost all of my lines, far longer than 200 years, and all of them are from northern Italy, most from an area some have labeled Lunezia.

http://www.theflorentine.net/news/2010/06/what-is-lunezia/

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/9/9a/Lunezia.jpg

However, on 23andme I have very few "relatives" and all of them are third cousins or more. I also haven't been able to get any of my relatives to test.

This is my result:

https://i.imgur.com/WbB4eZ9.png

The .1% is East Asian, and it shows up in every calculator. On Kurd's analysis I get a lot of Scythian so maybe it's a relict of that. The rest is Northwest European of various kinds, no matches at all

Weird how you only get 1 dot when you got such a high % of Italian. Then it must really have something to do with the number of DNA relatives.

Im albanian from the northerly parts. Im a bit confused by Montenegro being higher on the list than Albania. But maybe it has something to do with how many dna relative Montenegrins have done tests vs how many Albanians. I don't know.

I think i have around 1300-1400 DNA relatives, but only a couple of 2nd-3rd cousins.
A lot of albanians, and also some arvanites and some montenegrins with slavicized albanian names(arnautovic etc.). But also some with regular greek and montenegrin names. And wierdly also a lot of british and german americans.

Balkanite
05-04-18, 00:51
Yours is similar to mine9964


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89698)
Yes pretty much.
Its wierd I have double the % italian than you, but i only got 1 dot at italian, while you got 2.

Angela
05-04-18, 01:03
Weird how you only get 1 dot when you got such a high % of Italian. Then it must really have something to do with the number of DNA relatives.

Im albanian from the northerly parts. Im a bit confused by Montenegro being higher on the list than Albania. But maybe it has something to do with how many dna relative Montenegrins have done tests vs how many Albanians. I don't know.

I think i have around 1300-1400 DNA relatives, but only a couple of 2nd-3rd cousins.
A lot of albanians, and also some arvanites and some montenegrins with slavicized albanian names(arnautovic etc.). But also some with regular greek and montenegrin names. And wierdly also a lot of british and german americans.

I only have about 600, and my closest is a group of matches who are supposedly 4th cousins. Some of them, weirdly, are Danish and some are "colonial" Americans, primarily British descent. The Italian ones all come from my area,but not related genealogically. I don't have any matches from south of Rome, and a huge majority of the samples at 23andme are from Southern Italy/Sicily. We're just very heterogeneous.

AdeoF
05-04-18, 01:11
They need to update there website and data based on the infomation within there database since the "dots" are not fully accurate as a IT guy I bet there database is a bit unorganised or maybe they don't understand SQL. When my test pops up i will show mine here (since they updated it I should get high Iberian admixture but with some italo-celt possbily)

Salento
05-04-18, 01:48
AdeoF, it seems that the query prioritize DNA Matches, and not Ancestry %.

davef
05-04-18, 07:07
They need to update there website and data based on the infomation within there database since the "dots" are not fully accurate as a IT guy I bet there database is a bit unorganised or maybe they don't understand SQL. When my test pops up i will show mine here (since they updated it I should get high Iberian admixture but with some italo-celt possbily)

Up vote from me bc u said a developers developers developers developers developers term!

SELECT *
FROM members
WHERE knows_SQL
ORDER BY awesomeness DESC

Anyway i personally think it's likely that these issues have less to do with the database design than the code itself (bad databases allow for things like anomalies with writing, deletion etc). I would expect all the mathy algorithmically stuff to be written in something like python, and that code should handle anything that wouldn't look right to the user.

Oh man it's 1:06 Eastern already? Gotta nap

Stuvanè
05-04-18, 08:12
Me too only a black dot in my main italian component 9965

Inviato dal mio SM-J730F utilizzando Tapatalk

Sile
05-04-18, 08:20
We haven't seen Sile's screenshot with five dots for Italian.
If he does have them, it's because he got a lot of his relatives tested at 23andme.
There is more diversity between any two Italians than between whole regions in Europe.
Read Ralph and Coop.
https://s20.postimg.org/a0qs5x3a5/andy_5_dots.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
italian matches of note
Zanatta - 0.37% from Ponzano Veneto -treviso province
Folger - 0.28% from Musano - treviso province
Miotto - 0.27% from falze - treviso province
Bison - 0.24% from trentino province
Negrin - 0.23% from spresiano - treviso province
Martin - 0.22% from Loria - treviso province
Del Ben - 0.21% from liedolo - treviso province
Biasion - 0.21%
Pellizzer - 0.28%
Sibillin - 0.27% from Asolo - treviso province
Hintz - 0.22% from Piobino Dese - Padau province ...married a relative from Morgano Veneto circa 1900
Bet - 0.27% from Trentino Province
Toigo - 0.26 % from Fanzaso - trentino province
Pivetta - 0.21 % from one` - treviso province
Bolzan - 0.20% from fonte Alto - treviso province ...married into my maternal line circa 1780
and many more

red surnames are relatives via registry records

Sile
05-04-18, 08:36
If you get 30.8 Italian and I get 58.6, than the “dots” results are completely “Out of Whack” lol :)

LOL.....i agree with the rubbish that 23andme present

Balkanite
05-04-18, 13:15
I only have about 600, and my closest is a group of matches who are supposedly 4th cousins. Some of them, weirdly, are Danish and some are "colonial" Americans, primarily British descent. The Italian ones all come from my area,but not related genealogically. I don't have any matches from south of Rome, and a huge majority of the samples at 23andme are from Southern Italy/Sicily. We're just very heterogeneous.
Italy has also sent a good bunch of genes abroad during the roman empire and to america in the 1900's. So theres also a chance that many of the people that you share dna with has not declared themselves as Italian on 23andme(due to not knowing they have italian/roman ancestry), and that it is skewing the results by putting those matches in some "broadly southern european" or "broadly european" category(and those categories don't have dots at all).
But yes heterogeneity among italians can probably also make you less matchable between each other.

davef
05-04-18, 14:06
Are you sure about that? I dont see how Italian Americans would refuse to declare themselves as Italian on 23andme and I also don't see how they would be unaware of their heritage, especially since Italians are relatively new to this nation :).

Same concept applies to other "newcomers" like Jewish Americans, Greek Americans, Polish Americans, etc.

Just my 2 cents

Angela
05-04-18, 14:23
Me too only a black dot in my main italian component 9965

Inviato dal mio SM-J730F utilizzando Tapatalk

Is the rest generally Southern European?

Also, is this the lowest probability setting?

If so, there must not be very many people from the Romagna in the data base.

Regio X
05-04-18, 15:42
I get 3 stars for Italian, like my mother, while my father gets 2. No stars for all others.
I get 1037 DNA relatives; mother, 1052; father, 1088.

Stuvanè
05-04-18, 16:24
Is the rest generally Southern European?

Also, is this the lowest probability setting?

If so, there must not be very many people from the Romagna in the data base.Yes, Angela. This the speculative setting. "Broadly" southern, northwestern components everywhere9966

Inviato dal mio SM-J730F utilizzando Tapatalk

mwauthy
05-04-18, 16:27
LOL.....i agree with the rubbish that 23andme present

After looking at more samples I feel the dot system should not have been used until they had a more complete database. It doesn’t make sense for a person to only get one dot for Italy when they score 70% Italian while another person gets 3 dots for Switzerland while only scoring 7% French and German.

In regards to my own sample and my own paper trail which is Wallonia Belgium and French Canadian I only received two dots for Belgium which matches part of my paper trail. In my opinion my British Isles, Iberian, Sardinian, and Italian percentages should be assigned to “Broadly” categories because they don’t match my paper trail at all, I received zero dots for them, and any type of influence is thousands of years old with the Romans or Iron Age and not really relevant to genealogy.

davef
05-04-18, 16:31
After looking at more samples I feel the dot system should not have been used until they had a more complete database. It doesn’t make sense for a person to only get one dot for Italy when they score 70% Italian while another person gets 3 dots for Switzerland while only scoring 7% French and German.

In regards to my own sample and my own paper trail which is Wallonia Belgium and French Canadian I only received two dots for Belgium which matches part of my paper trail. In my opinion my British Isles, Iberian, Sardinian, and Italian percentages should be assigned to “Broadly” categories because they don’t match my paper trail at all, I received zero dots for them, and any type of influence is thousands of years old with the Romans or Iron Age and not really relevant to genealogy.
I agree, someone who's British should score high dots in the British and Irish category, a result that doesn't oppose common sense expectations

Anyway, jovialis, do you mind sharing your dot scores with us? I find Salento's Balkan scores intriguing and wondering if you score similarly.

Ernekar
05-04-18, 17:09
Are you sure about that? I dont see how Italian Americans would refuse to declare themselves as Italian on 23andme and I also don't see how they would be unaware of their heritage, especially since Italians are relatively new to this nation :).

Same concept applies to other "newcomers" like Jewish Americans, Greek Americans, Polish Americans, etc.

Just my 2 cents

I think most declare themselves as having Italian heritage..
But there are also a lot of peolple who don't know that they have it.
Say, if their heritage has been mostly german or irish on the paternal side, but with some of them marrying Italian descent women in america. With time such heritage would be forgotten, althought the genetic traces will still be there.

Angela
05-04-18, 17:10
Yes, Angela. This the speculative setting. "Broadly" southern, northwestern components everywhere9966

Inviato dal mio SM-J730F utilizzando Tapatalk

About 25-27% "Northern" European seems to be consistent for samples at approximately our latitude, but to the east there's Balkan, and to the west little or none, its place being taken by Iberian.

Adding in that broadly "Southern European" brings you to about 70%, which is close to my 72%.

As I said, not many people from the Romagna in the data base, whereas there is the large Tuscan contingent from around Firenze, some of whose IBS alleles I undoubtedly share, so they can label them.

The problem with all this is that while we understand it, most people buying the analysis don't.

mwauthy
05-04-18, 17:36
As I said, not many people from the Romagna in the data base, whereas there is the large Tuscan contingent from around Firenze, some of whose IBS alleles I undoubtedly share, so they can label them.

The problem with all this is that while we understand it, most people buying the analysis don't.

In hindsight you are correct. When initially announced I thought the dots had the potential to further refine and further specify the initial large regions into more accurate countries of origin. So if someone scored 50% “French and German” they could see if that 50% was more French or even Swiss. I see now that this is not the case and it’s a bit disappointing. The dots are just another version of dna relatives and are completely dependent on a biased customer database. Pretty pointless in my opinion.

Angela
05-04-18, 19:33
I think most declare themselves as having Italian heritage..
But there are also a lot of peolple who don't know that they have it.
Say, if their heritage has been mostly german or irish on the paternal side, but with some of them marrying Italian descent women in america. With time such heritage would be forgotten, althought the genetic traces will still be there.

The bulk of Italian immigration to the U.S. was from 1890-1920, so most people are aware of it. For someone who is 60, that could be a grandparent, and they would probably pass down the information. Some vague story might be all they know, however. Italian-Americans as a group have, on average, a higher rate of identification with a European nation than some other "ethnicities", even if they are only 1/4 Italian. After that it dies away.

So, it can happen, but it's not very common. Something odd like an adoption or a non-parental event would probably need to have taken place.

Sile
05-04-18, 20:21
After looking at more samples I feel the dot system should not have been used until they had a more complete database. It doesn’t make sense for a person to only get one dot for Italy when they score 70% Italian while another person gets 3 dots for Switzerland while only scoring 7% French and German.
In regards to my own sample and my own paper trail which is Wallonia Belgium and French Canadian I only received two dots for Belgium which matches part of my paper trail. In my opinion my British Isles, Iberian, Sardinian, and Italian percentages should be assigned to “Broadly” categories because they don’t match my paper trail at all, I received zero dots for them, and any type of influence is thousands of years old with the Romans or Iron Age and not really relevant to genealogy.
i believe the dot system represents a family and close relatives lack of migration to other countries within a small time frame...maybe 400 years with a combination of DNA relatives and where they state their origins ( again in a small time frame ) via grandparents and maybe also great grandparents
.
example..........I have close relatives who migrated to SW france pre WW1 and I still chat with the descendents today...........yet I get no french dot ..........2 appear in my recent surname post on this thread

Salento
05-04-18, 22:30
Deleted ———-

mwauthy
05-04-18, 22:50
Result of a mix Italian American with South Puglia Ancestry.
(Got his Permission) Thank you.

9967
9968

Wow! Surprised someone got a dot with only 3.5%.

Salento
05-04-18, 22:58
Wow! Surprised someone got a dot with only 3.5%.

He’s a mix Italian American, I’m sure he’s got tons of DNA Relatives.

AdeoF
06-04-18, 01:14
He’s a mix Italian America, I’m sure he’s got tons of DNA Relatives.
Looks like it mate but the person has only two dots, I think he needs more. Since he is a mix I was thinking of his Germanic admixture would be higher but oddly no

AdeoF
06-04-18, 01:18
Up vote from me bc u said a developers developers developers developers developers term!

SELECT *
FROM members
WHERE knows_SQL
ORDER BY awesomeness DESC

Anyway i personally think it's likely that these issues have less to do with the database design than the code itself (bad databases allow for things like anomalies with writing, deletion etc). I would expect all the mathy algorithmically stuff to be written in something like python, and that code should handle anything that wouldn't look right to the user
You know it mate, in uni since I'm doing management as one of my modules. Human errors account around 30% to 60% of technological stuff at work. Maybe there database is one of them

Salento
06-04-18, 01:49
Looks like it mate but the person has only two dots, I think he needs more. Since he is a mix I was thinking of his Germanic admixture would be higher but oddly no
I guess so. I’ll delete it the Pic later, can’t prove anything after all because is half S.Pugliese.

christa
06-04-18, 02:03
I guess so. I’ll delete it the Pic later, can’t prove anything after all because is half S.Pugliese.


Do you have Albania and Macedonia In the section "Ancestors birthplaces" ?

Salento
06-04-18, 02:25
Do you have Albania and Macedonia In the section "Ancestors birthplaces" ?
Not specifically by name, just Balkan on a more distant generations.
What about you, do you get Balkans?
I ask bc your Balkans % is Higher than mine.
Also other Pugliesi score around 25-35% with the 23andme V5.
Trust me on that.
“Parli Italiano?”

christa
06-04-18, 03:22
Not specifically by name, just Balkan on a more distance generation.
What about you, do you get Balkans?
I ask bc your Balkans % is Higher than mine.
Also other Pugliesi score around 25-35% with the 23andme V5.
Trust me on that.
“Parli Italiano?”

Si lo parlo:-)
I have 1062 relatives on 23andme. I have relatives from Balkans and all Europe.
I have far ancestors from Dalmatia (about 500 years ago).But i Think this Balkan for all Apulians is more Illyrian.

Salento
06-04-18, 04:06
Si lo parlo:-)
I have 1062 relatives on 23andme. I have relatives from Balkans and all Europe.
I have far ancestors from Dalmatia (about 500 years ago).But i Think this Balkan for all Apulians is more Illyrian.
You double my relatives.
Di Sicuro, almeno una parte della percentuale Balcanica nei Pugliesi proviene dall’Antica Illiria.
(Surely, at least part of the Balkan % in Apulians is of Ancient Illyrian Origins.)

Jovialis
06-04-18, 16:51
Razib Khan has an article about the new update:

https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/04/05/our-familys-pedigree-in-23andme/

Angela
06-04-18, 17:22
Razib Khan has an article about the new update:

https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/04/05/our-familys-pedigree-in-23andme/

That two hundred year period is nonsense. I know my ancestors for the last two hundred years and there weren't any French, German, or British people among them.

They also made a mess by combining IBD (geneaology) and ancestry (admixture). I don't have close IBD matches in the system, so the "matches" are not going to be accurate. This will never work for Italians, at least. Period.

Jovialis
06-04-18, 17:33
That two hundred year period is nonsense. I know my ancestors for the last two hundred years and there weren't any French, German, or British people among them.

They also made a mess by combining IBD (geneaology) and ancestry (admixture). I don't have close IBD matches in the system, so the "matches" are not going to be accurate. This will never work for Italians, at least. Period.

I absolutely agree.

Dibran
06-04-18, 18:00
Mine just says Albania under Balkan. Also, theres nothing listed as "closest" for the other ancestries. So I would assume they are older admixtures and or insufficient data to make determination?

Balkanite
06-04-18, 18:46
Mine just says Albania under Balkan. Also, theres nothing listed as "closest" for the other ancestries. So I would assume they are older admixtures and or insufficient data to make determination?

You have to press the "scienftific details" tab when in the ancestry page on 23andme. There you will find a list with dots and stuff.

But if your main page is saying albania, that means albania is highest on you dot list.
My front page says montenegro.

christa
06-04-18, 23:31
I absolutely agree.

Jovialis,I was born in your same city Altamura.

Do you have dots only for Italy?

mwauthy
07-04-18, 01:06
That two hundred year period is nonsense. I know my ancestors for the last two hundred years and there weren't any French, German, or British people among them.

They also made a mess by combining IBD (geneaology) and ancestry (admixture). I don't have close IBD matches in the system, so the "matches" are not going to be accurate. This will never work for Italians, at least. Period.

When you are getting 1 dot with 77% Italian and another person is getting 1 dot with 4% British Isles and another person is getting 3 dots with 7% French and German and another person is getting 5 dots with 28% Italian the dots lose all meaning in my eyes. I understand the dots are irrespective of the admixture percentage but the way it’s graphically presented purports some type of correlation.

If I have 5 cousins take a test in Belgium will I now be bumped up from 2 to 5 dots? What does that even mean and what is the point? I think Ancestry was on to something with their Genetic Communities originally. Showing how people within a database might all belong to a sub region of a country. Trying to associate these database connections with entire nationalistic borders doesn’t make much sense to me and the contradictions are already apparent.

Sile
07-04-18, 03:52
When you are getting 1 dot with 77% Italian and another person is getting 1 dot with 4% British Isles and another person is getting 3 dots with 7% French and German and another person is getting 5 dots with 28% Italian the dots lose all meaning in my eyes. I understand the dots are irrespective of the admixture percentage but the way it’s graphically presented purports some type of correlation.

If I have 5 cousins take a test in Belgium will I now be bumped up from 2 to 5 dots? What does that even mean and what is the point? I think Ancestry was on to something with their Genetic Communities originally. Showing how people within a database might all belong to a sub region of a country. Trying to associate these database connections with entire nationalistic borders doesn’t make much sense to me and the contradictions are already apparent.

the 5 dots for italian for 28% only say " all italian for only last 200 years" or words to that effect .............so to me it means the dots reflect only 200 years

mwauthy
07-04-18, 04:31
the 5 dots for italian for 28% only say " all italian for only last 200 years" or words to that effect .............so to me it means the dots reflect only 200 years

I’m pretty sure Angela and her ancestors were in Italy for 200 years. I’ll give these “dots” some credit. I haven’t seen anyone get tons of dots for phantom admixture percentages.

Salento
07-04-18, 05:51
the 5 dots for italian for 28% only say " all italian for only last 200 years" or words to that effect .............so to me it means the dots reflect only 200 years
DNA Phasing + Multiple close Relatives.
That should explains some of the Discrepancies between % and dots. I think. [emoji848]

New Englander
09-04-18, 18:34
9985

I just received the update and nothing changed, at all. All the new regions reported 0%, and this is what I ended up with.

mwauthy
10-04-18, 01:38
9985

I just received the update and nothing changed, at all. All the new regions reported 0%, and this is what I ended up with.

Admixture percentages did not change for anyone I believe. You did receive “dots” for Italy. Click on see all regions to see how many you received for Italy.

Sile
10-04-18, 07:31
DNA Phasing + Multiple close Relatives.
That should explains some of the Discrepancies between % and dots. I think. [emoji848]

does this work
select confidence level
it is set at 50% and nothing happens when one changes it

Syd
10-04-18, 10:45
Both my brother and I got only two dots for Italy and nothing else. Very few customers from Lazio in their database?

Pax Augusta
10-04-18, 12:50
Both my brother and I got only two dots for Italy and nothing else. Very few customers from Lazio in their database?

Unfortunately there are no academic samples from Lazio, which is also a transitional region given that in Lazio central Italian dialects and southern Italian dialects are spoken.

Pax Augusta
10-04-18, 13:27
About 25-27% "Northern" European seems to be consistent for samples at approximately our latitude, but to the east there's Balkan, and to the west little or none, its place being taken by Iberian.

Adding in that broadly "Southern European" brings you to about 70%, which is close to my 72%.

As I said, not many people from the Romagna in the data base, whereas there is the large Tuscan contingent from around Firenze, some of whose IBS alleles I undoubtedly share, so they can label them.

The problem with all this is that while we understand it, most people buying the analysis don't.


The Italian user (of whom I have seen the results) who has the highest percentage of Italian on the new 23andMe is a guy from Cesena, Romagna, with all the relatives from Cesena and neighboring villages for many generations. He scores 87% Italian.

While the only Florentine I've seen so far he scores much less, around 65%. He is completely Tuscan but I do not know if he is 100% from Florence.



I ask because I have geneaological trees going back to the 1550s for almost all of my lines, far longer than 200 years, and all of them are from northern Italy, most from an area some have labeled Lune.

http://www.theflorentine.net/news/2010/06/what-is-lunezia/

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/9/9a/Lunezia.jpg



Non per rompere le scatole, but Lunezia's historical basis are questionable, it's a name invented in 1989 by a Judge and Lunezia as word came into use in the late 90s of the 21st century. Very hardly people from Piacenza and other provinces there included feel all themselves part of Lunezia and, above all, nostalgic subjects of the Duchy of Parma. :)

In Italy there are independence movements for everybody's taste.

Angela
10-04-18, 14:32
The Italian user (of whom I have seen the results) who has the highest percentage of Italian on the new 23andMe is a guy from Cesena, Romagna, with all the relatives from Cesena and neighboring villages for many generations. He scores 87% Italian.

While the only Florentine I've seen so far he scores much less, around 65%. He is completely Tuscan but I do not know if he is 100% from Florence.




Non per rompere le scatole, but Lunezia's historical basis are questionable, it's a name invented in 1989 by a Judge and Lunezia as word came into use in the late 90s of the 21st century. Very hardly people from Piacenza and other provinces there included feel all themselves part of Lunezia and, above all, nostalgic subjects of the Duchy of Parma. :)

In Italy there are independence movements for everybody's taste.

Did I ever say or imply that I was in favor of it or that it was remotely feasible? It just happens to include every single one of my ancestors for the last 500 years.

Salento
10-04-18, 18:28
does this work
select confidence level
it is set at 50% and nothing happens when one changes it
My dots don’t change after I change the confidence level.

New Englander
12-04-18, 08:06
I have 4 Dots for Italy (36.4%), and zero for everything else.

Maciamo
12-04-18, 09:23
I received an email saying that my updated report was ready (for me and my relatives). However nothing changed in the Ancestry Composition! The only thing that changed is that there are now dots with countries, but even there I or my relative get one single dot for Belgium (and one person also for 1 dot the Netherlands). One dot! Talk about a confidence interval! All my ancestors in the last 7 generations (at least, but more likely dozens) are from Belgium. If that test was any good it would show 4 or 5 dots for Belgium.

What happened is that 23andMe followed in AncestryDNA's footsteps by misleading customers into believing that they are testing more regions than they really are. Last year AncestryDNA announced that they were going to test 150 regions (instead of 25), but nothing changed in the admixture percentages either. They also simply added a list of countries with dots. That's just a dirty marketing trick to lure in unsuspecting customers. I can't believe that 23andMe would fall to that level too.

LeBrok
12-04-18, 16:25
I received an email saying that my updated report was ready (for me and my relatives). However nothing changed in the Ancestry Composition! The only thing that changed is that there are now dots with countries, but even there I or my relative get one single dot for Belgium (and one person also for 1 dot the Netherlands). One dot! Talk about a confidence interval! All my ancestors in the last 7 generations (at least, but more likely dozens) are from Belgium. If that test was any good it would show 4 or 5 dots for Belgium.

What happened is that 23andMe followed in AncestryDNA's footsteps by misleading customers into believing that they are testing more regions than they really are. Last year AncestryDNA announced that they were going to test 150 regions (instead of 25), but nothing changed in the admixture percentages either. They also simply added a list of countries with dots. That's just a dirty marketing trick to lure in unsuspecting customers. I can't believe that 23andMe would fall to that level too.
The connections to regions got more precise. Now instead of saying 4% Balkans, it says 4% of Croatia for me.

Maciamo
12-04-18, 17:51
The connections to regions got more precise. Now instead of saying 4% Balkans, it says 4% of Croatia for me.

Really? All I see is percentages for French & German, Britain & Ireland, Scandinavia, Iberia, Italy, Balkans, etc. just like before. The new countries don't have percentages, just dots.

mwauthy
12-04-18, 19:08
Really? All I see is percentages for French & German, Britain & Ireland, Scandinavia, Iberia, Italy, Balkans, etc. just like before. The new countries don't have percentages, just dots.

I agree! The amount of dots that people receive is pretty meaningless in terms of what percentage of their dna might be from a specific country. My wife is 50% Italian and she received 4 dots for Italy. Angela is 100% Italian and you are 100% Belgian yet you each received only 1 dot. If someone were adopted the dots would only signify some ancestry in that country. The amount of ancestry would be meaningless.

Sile
12-04-18, 20:34
I’m pretty sure Angela and her ancestors were in Italy for 200 years. I’ll give these “dots” some credit. I haven’t seen anyone get tons of dots for phantom admixture percentages.
my paternal line have been in italy ( veneto and trentino ) since 1425 from registry and church records I have compiled................so whats your point?........they just use 200 years for some unknown reason ................its like there bar chart it states for me ..italian only from 1870 and before this french, earlier is british, scandinavian etc.
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I believe some regions in italy are excluded from italian like trentino and friuli which is why my % for italian is low and my 5 dots is high ( because the 5 dots represent only veneto for me )

Angela
12-04-18, 23:41
^^Your dots represent the fact that for whatever reason you have reasonably close relatives in the database, and so there are matches for longer tracts of your dna. They explain it. There's no mystery.

The problem is that most consumers won't understand it. You've just proved that.

Sile
12-04-18, 23:50
agree .....most do not understand data which makes no sense
it like some people will defend ( at all costs ) the rubbish that 23andme and ancestry produce as fact and these people cannot be convinced otherwise.
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clearly we see 23andme has gone backwards since their version 3 ................they are basically slightly better than ancestry and I foresee in the future their goal in % will only be for north american samples only

woman_of_the_world
17-04-18, 08:20
They are rolling out the results slowly for everyone who has taken their reports. Some have it, a vast majority is still waiting to get theirs.

woman_of_the_world
17-04-18, 08:23
It is rolling out slowly for everyone. A vast majority is still waiting.