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Angela
06-03-18, 17:17
Conventional thinking has been that the more men in a community, the more pressure they will exert on women for sexual access. It doesn't seem to work that way. The economic model says that the minority sex sets the rules.

Looking at college campuses, where the men outnumbered the women, "A “patriarchy model” would predict that if men were the majority on campus they’d create pressure for casual sex through coercion or intimidation- but we see the opposite pattern. When men are the majority women have less casual sex.


Where the women outnumbered the men, "hetero sex-women who are minority on campus more likely to be virgins, even if they had boyfriends- it was as if they said “I’d rather not have sex yet & if you don’t like it there are plenty of other guys to choose from”

See:https://twitter.com/sentientist/status/970706888424939520

bicicleur
06-03-18, 18:31
the sex that is in the minority is more in demand and can be more picky in choosing a partner

in essence it's a question of offer and demand

Jovialis
06-03-18, 18:51
I guess in a situation where it’s dominated by one sex, the minority sex will likely choose the opposite-sex with the most desirable attributes within that social structure. So I assume if it were more evenly distributed, there would be less choice, but more sexual access for both groups.

Angela
06-03-18, 19:01
I guess in a situation where it’s dominated by one sex, the minority sex will likely choose the opposite-sex with the most desirable attributes within that social structure. So I assume if it were more evenly distributed, there would be less choice, but more sexual access for both groups.

That's probably right. However, it's interesting that when women hold the cards they don't opt for casual sex or even necessarily any sex at all without the ultimate commitment of marriage.

Women just don't realize their power in this regard. What most of them want, clearly, is commitment, no matter the propaganda constantly thrown at them. So, if that's the case, then whether they're in the minority or not, they should just all hold out for it.

Wow, I'm still so old-fashioned. :)

Jovialis
06-03-18, 19:23
That's probably right. However, it's interesting that when women hold the cards they don't opt for casual sex or even necessarily any sex at all without the ultimate commitment of marriage.

Women just don't realize their power in this regard. What most of them want, clearly, is commitment, no matter the propaganda constantly thrown at them. So, if that's the case, then whether they're in the minority or not, they should just all hold out for it.

Wow, I'm still so old-fashioned. :)

I think what the vast majority of people truly want is a partner that is exclusively theirs. So perhaps female sexual attitudes may be biologically linked to this. Which I think is also part of our species' ability to plan ahead. It could also explain why most cultures are monogamous.

bicicleur
06-03-18, 20:20
That's probably right. However, it's interesting that when women hold the cards they don't opt for casual sex or even necessarily any sex at all without the ultimate commitment of marriage.

Women just don't realize their power in this regard. What most of them want, clearly, is commitment, no matter the propaganda constantly thrown at them. So, if that's the case, then whether they're in the minority or not, they should just all hold out for it.

Wow, I'm still so old-fashioned. :)

that's when women got pregnant after one or a few sexual contacts
they were left with the burden of pregnancy and the raising of children
they needed a man that would support her in this

that's how women were programmed, probably by their DNA selected through the generations
I'm not so sure it will stay that way with anticoncpetives and 'liberated' women

Angela
06-03-18, 20:50
that's when women got pregnant after one or a few sexual contacts
they were left with the burden of pregnancy and the raising of children
they needed a man that would support her in this
that's how women were programmed, probably by their DNA selected through the generations
I'm not so sure it will stay that way with anticoncpetives and 'liberated' women

I don't know. Maybe it's too soon for the changes to have occurred?

These are young women currently in university, and they seem to be sexually more "available" only if they think that if they're not, they won't "get" a man. I also know a lot of "twenty-something" young women, and this rings very true to me. Of course, there are always exceptions.

I think that's why some men complain about a "drop" in sexual activity after marriage in some cases. Those women who really aren't that into it, and there are more of them than men might imagine going by the confidences I've heard at women's only gatherings with a little bit of wine, just start to say no more often. Short sighted on their parts to some extent.

bicicleur
06-03-18, 21:23
I don't know. Maybe it's too soon for the changes to have occurred?

These are young women currently in university, and they seem to be sexually more "available" only if they think that if they're not, they won't "get" a man. I also know a lot of "twenty-something" young women, and this rings very true to me. Of course, there are always exceptions.

I think that's why some men complain about a "drop" in sexual activity after marriage in some cases. Those women who really aren't that into it, and there are more of them than men might imagine going by the confidences I've heard at women's only gatherings with a little bit of wine, just start to say no more often. Short sighted on their parts to some extent.

you're probably right
and though distance has decreased, men will never properly understand women and vice versa

some women have surprised me with their openness though, and it was a pleasant experience

Night
06-03-18, 21:30
This thread seems to we centered on 1st world western interrelations of sex, gender, and socioeconomic status.
What about the 3rd world, and non western cultures, and their sexual/gender, dynamics?
Arranged marriages or 2nd rate citizenship for women, are the norm in many Muslim and Hindu majority nations.
In China, sex selective abortion to cull female babies is also widely practiced.

Angela
06-03-18, 21:54
This thread seems to we centered on 1st world western interrelations of sex, gender, and socioeconomic status.
What about the 3rd world, and non western cultures, and their sexual/gender, dynamics?
Arranged marriages or 2nd rate citizenship for women, are the norm in many Muslim and Hindu majority nations.
In China, sex selective abortion to cull female babies is also widely practiced.

Well, it's based on a study of male-female relationships in such cultures.

Unfortunately, in some of the cultures you mention, women have absolutely no power over their own sexuality or conception.

Tomenable
08-03-18, 13:16
Post deleted.

Angela
08-03-18, 15:40
you're probably right
and though distance has decreased, men will never properly understand women and vice versa

some women have surprised me with their openness though, and it was a pleasant experience

Women differ in how important sex is to them, as do men, of course, yes? Some younger women are more "liberated" shall we say, so more might be open to sex without a long term commitment.

As for older women, divorced or widowed, they still have needs too, some of them, but they might have no desire to marry again for financial or other reasons, and so might be willing to have a sexual relationship as part of a friendship which also brings them companionship.

A young woman is looking for a mate, for someone to share her life with for the long haul. It's just different. I also think that the 'colpo di fulmine' kind of mad, passionate love, where you can't keep your hands off him, and with so much jealousy attached, might not happen very often to older people.

Nik
08-03-18, 18:02
I'm just gonna say that from my experience monogamy is not natural. Sure, women want it way more than men, but it still doesn't feel natural for most. It's the fear of losing someone, finding someone new, biological clock, economical security, etc. that push us (women more) to settle.

bicicleur
09-03-18, 09:39
Most don't want monogamy, but they want their partner to be exclusive.
In order to get that, they have to be exclusive to their partner too.

Angela
09-03-18, 15:50
Most don't want monogamy, but they want their partner to be exclusive.
In order to get that, they have to be exclusive to their partner too.

You don't mean women, do you? I've been monogamous my entire life and I assure you most women are indeed like me. In my experience, if a woman "cheats" it's usually because she doesn't feel loved, even if she's wrong about that. The reasons are usually "emotional", if you will. With men it doesn't have to be for that reason. There's more of a disconnect, I'd say, between sex and love.

Nik
09-03-18, 21:09
You don't mean women, do you? I've been monogamous my entire life and I assure you most women are indeed like me. In my experience, if a woman "cheats" it's usually because she doesn't feel loved, even if she's wrong about that. The reasons are usually "emotional", if you will. With men it doesn't have to be for that reason. There's more of a disconnect, I'd say, between sex and love.
Actually I believe both men and women at the end want the same, their perfect match and soulmate so they can fully commit for the rest of the life.

I've discussed the topic for years with women and after "pushing and squeezing" the truth always came out that they would all like to have adventures with many guys and this dream of theirs gets fulfilled only while they travel. It's actually 50% of the pleasure of travel and that's because they're in a foreign country and nobody will find out, so they'll have some beautiful moments to cherish for the rest of their lives.

The problem is with the modern society shaming only women for such acts and praising men as being alpha (but sometimes also jerks and manwhore). The difference is that for us men it's easier as it's justified with the fact that "they're men after all, but they will mature and realize", which is BS.

Angela
09-03-18, 22:30
Actually I believe both men and women at the end want the same, their perfect match and soulmate so they can fully commit for the rest of the life.

I've discussed the topic for years with women and after "pushing and squeezing" the truth always came out that they would all like to have adventures with many guys and this dream of theirs gets fulfilled only while they travel. It's actually 50% of the pleasure of travel and that's because they're in a foreign country and nobody will find out, so they'll have some beautiful moments to cherish for the rest of their lives.

The problem is with the modern society shaming only women for such acts and praising men as being alpha (but sometimes also jerks and manwhore). The difference is that for us men it's easier as it's justified with the fact that "they're men after all, but they will mature and realize", which is BS.

Nik, I don't know what to tell you. I don't know any women like that, young or old, although I'm sure there are some. In my experience, a good number of women don't even much like sex, even young ones. Trust me, women tell each other that stuff, even if they would never tell a man, and especially not a man they're hoping to entice into a long term relationship. Women have even perfected "faking it" for decades.

Even women who like it a lot would not necessarily consider traveling so they can have anonymous sex without social repercussions, even leaving aside any moral training. I'm sure there are some, but ALL, or even the majority? I doubt it. Christ, there aren't that many men who even appeal, then think about diseases, and the embarrassment the next morning when you want to get rid of him. Or, if it's someone whom you know, a colleague or neighbor, think of the incredible mess you'd be making. Absolutely not. Plus, to be honest, I've never encountered a man as sexually attractive as my own husband. Why go out for hamburger when you have steak at home?

Well, if Raoul Bova, or Antonio Cupo, or Carmine Signorelli, or Luca Calvani, or Daniele Pecci came around? :)
Actually, I'm just kidding. It has to be the whole package: looks, intellect, character, sense of humor etc.

Salento
10-03-18, 02:16
I’m clueless !

Angela
10-03-18, 03:20
US First Couple
Marriage Criteria IMO
Melania: Economic Model.
Donald: Sexual Access.
I’m not criticizing the Pres and the 1st Lady. They’re perfectly fine to me. Whatever makes them happy
but I’m not blind, and neither is Melania, or Donald.
Love is Blind. ( Or is It? )
IMHO

That's not at all what the paper is about when it talks about the "economic" model: it's about who sets the rules about sexual engagement being a function of supply and demand.

Ed. Most of those guys on those campuses are dirt poor and riddled with student debt. Not every woman sells herself to the highest bidder. Some women hold out for commitment even when the young man has no money and no prospects of making any.

Salento
10-03-18, 03:24
Deleted. It Wasn’t funny either. [emoji53]

davef
10-03-18, 03:42
A big nose can be attractive, as long as it isn't big an awkward enough to make you look like Alf

Salento
10-03-18, 03:48
A big nose can be attractive, as long as it isn't big an awkward enough to make you look like Alf

Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder.

Angela
10-03-18, 04:08
Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder.

True to some extent, but there are societal norms which actually change over time which influence how you interpret what you see with your eyes. :)

Before actors are hired, for example, producers sometimes hire marketing companies to do some testing to see which actor or actress is more appealing. The same thing happens when certain commercials are made. There are differences by sex too. What a woman thinks is beautiful in terms of female beauty may not be the same as what a man thinks, even if they're in the same culture.

Salento
10-03-18, 04:44
True to some extent, but there are societal norms which actually change over time which influence how you interpret what you see with your eyes. :)

Before actors are hired, for example, producers sometimes hire marketing companies to do some testing to see which actor or actress is more appealing. The same thing happens when certain commercials are made. There are differences by sex too. What a woman thinks is beautiful in terms of female beauty may not be the same as what a man thinks, even if they're in the same culture.
In many old paintings, Man and Woman were depicted in such a way that by today western standard are consider over weight.
Roman noses, were also exaggerated in Statues or Coins, as an indication of Power, and Intelligence.
George Washington Painting with a belly represented an healthy, wealthy and respected Leader.
- Edited -
Even Cleopatra’s nose it’s not realistic imo.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Kleopatra-VII.-Altes-Museum-Berlin1.jpg
The Berlin Cleopatra, a Roman bust of Cleopatra VII wearing a royal diadem, mid-1st century BC (i.e. around the time of her visits to Rome in 46-44 BC), discovered in a villa along the Via Appia; it is now located in the Altes Museum. (She looks somewhat Greekish to me)

- Coin of Cleopatra -
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/0f/7a/cf/0f7acf298b4f0c04db61d095e9c7d32e--ancient-greece-ancient-egypt.jpg
——————————-

Empress Faustina Jr, Marcus Aurelius’ Wife. Look at the nose.
- This coin is mine - [emoji4]
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171225/ada7b36004407630f2bacd3a342a241b.jpg

All this images have in common a big nose with a small hook at the tip.

Sile
10-03-18, 04:45
Actually I believe both men and women at the end want the same, their perfect match and soulmate so they can fully commit for the rest of the life.
I've discussed the topic for years with women and after "pushing and squeezing" the truth always came out that they would all like to have adventures with many guys and this dream of theirs gets fulfilled only while they travel. It's actually 50% of the pleasure of travel and that's because they're in a foreign country and nobody will find out, so they'll have some beautiful moments to cherish for the rest of their lives.
The problem is with the modern society shaming only women for such acts and praising men as being alpha (but sometimes also jerks and manwhore). The difference is that for us men it's easier as it's justified with the fact that "they're men after all, but they will mature and realize", which is BS.
I think its easier for men than women because we see men as seeing sex as lust and not love
https://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-12048/how-to-tell-if-its-love-or-just-lust.html
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/emotional-freedom/201108/lust-vs-love-do-you-know-the-difference
(there are many sites on this topic)
as for women, i have no clue if its an even split or not, but the trend here in australia is for women to enjoy yourselves, not marry early but settle down in their late twenties.
as for the article.........well there are many fish in the sea is the old saying.............in my time up to my sons time the majority I men I knew would not bother with women like that

davef
10-03-18, 07:24
I'm not sure if I'm right here but seeing old portraits, paintings, and pictures/clips of actresses, I'm amazed at how beautiful the women shown in these media are (beautiful as in a woman who appears in your dreams) in comparison to what we have today with all the Botox, implants, and women making themselves as "sexy" as possible (which to me isn't attractive at all, it looks dumb). Extensive plastic surgery is the way to be if you want to resemble a denizen walking the sandy streets of Mos Eisley

bicicleur
10-03-18, 12:02
True to some extent, but there are societal norms which actually change over time which influence how you interpret what you see with your eyes. :)

Before actors are hired, for example, producers sometimes hire marketing companies to do some testing to see which actor or actress is more appealing. The same thing happens when certain commercials are made. There are differences by sex too. What a woman thinks is beautiful in terms of female beauty may not be the same as what a man thinks, even if they're in the same culture.

I think there is one universal sign of beauty :
the person has to look healthy and strong

cultural influences change over time
but signs of wealth and succes also appear attractive

in the middle ages fat ladies were seen as a sign of wealth
a few centuries ago, it were pale ladies, that didn't have to work on the fields in the sun
now for some reason, some celebrities, movie stars and soccer players often get overwhelmed by female attention

bicicleur
10-03-18, 12:13
You don't mean women, do you? I've been monogamous my entire life and I assure you most women are indeed like me. In my experience, if a woman "cheats" it's usually because she doesn't feel loved, even if she's wrong about that. The reasons are usually "emotional", if you will. With men it doesn't have to be for that reason. There's more of a disconnect, I'd say, between sex and love.

Men are hunters indeed, they don't need an excuse. It's part of 'being a man'.
Women occasionally hunt too, or want to be hunted, but they won't admit it and find some excuse for their behaviour. And they are more looking for attention than sex, but sex counts too if they feel deprived.

cherry7
10-03-18, 12:27
I am old-fashioned too, that way we stay healthy. I am only interested in commitment and my head rules my heart. However we must remember that sex is a necessary factor in the continuation of the human race at this point in time. Who knows in the future what will happen but both sexes are important in the grand scheme of things

Jovialis
10-03-18, 16:25
If the majority of women had the same attitudes about sex as men, the world would be far more overcrowded. I think women naturally have their ways partly as a means to control overpopulation.

Part of desire is the fact that the woman is not just going to give it up so easy or to just anyone. Being the male who is selected over the others also drives desire; the feeling of having exclusive sexual access.


I am old-fashioned too, that way we stay healthy. I am only interested in commitment and my head rules my heart. However we must remember that sex is a necessary factor in the continuation of the human race at this point in time. Who knows in the future what will happen but both sexes are important in the grand scheme of things

Personally, I don’t want to live in a world where sex has been eliminated as a means of reproduction.

Angela
10-03-18, 17:13
In many old paintings, Man and Woman were depicted in such a way that by today western standard are consider over weight.
Roman noses, were also exaggerated in Statues or Coins, as an indication of Power, and Intelligence.
George Washington Painting with a belly represented an healthy, wealthy and respected Leader.
- Edited -
Even Cleopatra’s nose it’s not realistic imo.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Kleopatra-VII.-Altes-Museum-Berlin1.jpg
The Berlin Cleopatra, a Roman bust of Cleopatra VII wearing a royal diadem, mid-1st century BC (i.e. around the time of her visits to Rome in 46-44 BC), discovered in a villa along the Via Appia; it is now located in the Altes Museum.

- Coin of Cleopatra -
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/0f/7a/cf/0f7acf298b4f0c04db61d095e9c7d32e--ancient-greece-ancient-egypt.jpg
——————————-

Empress Faustina Jr, Marcus Aurelius’ Wife. Look at the nose.
- This coin is mine - [emoji4]
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171225/ada7b36004407630f2bacd3a342a241b.jpg

All this images have in common a big nose with a small hook at the tip.

All what images? You're picking out one statue which happens to have a nose which matches that of Cleopatra's, if the likeness is accurate.

Just google Roman era busts or classical era busts. See, for example, Julius:
http://www.romanemperors.com/images/julius-caesar/7-image-bust.jpg

Marcus Agrippa, who was famously not of patrician birth:
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c3/9e/f4/c39ef42590817b2d316d87ddaab7ebba.jpg

Pompey:
http://mieladictos.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Pompeyo-236x300.jpg





You have to know the era when the piece of art was created. In some periods, the art is very stylized, with everyone looking approximately the same. In others, the art is more realistic. In the above pictures, the depictions appear very realistic. In others, there's idealization going on, perhaps, or stylistic conventions. That's usually from earlier periods.

Then there's the fact that other than in the case of, say, political figures, art sometimes celebrates people whom the artists consider beautiful. Antinous is the famous example. He was considered the most beautiful man of the time.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ni7Xf01Q_iU/TVP4pWyis3I/AAAAAAAAEEc/X1QO68w8UCU/s1600/Antinous-fd0009.jpg

I also hardly think they're putting bigger noses on statues necessarily to show power in a political figure. Antinous was the catamite of the Emperor Hadrian.

Also, the women depicted didn't have button, upturned noses, either. Here is a Greek statue of the goddess Flora:
http://www.youmagazine.gr/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/03458954589GCE250.jpg

Vibia Sabina:
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b6/c4/bf/b6c4bfd09aec9447c509525b6c761c2a.jpg

If you wish to continue the discussion, the following threads might be more appropriate.

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/30832-Recognizing-ethnicity-by-the-nose?highlight=noses

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/34349-Actual-living-human-examples-of-the-Classical-phenotype?highlight=classical+phenotype

Salento
10-03-18, 17:30
All what images? You're picking out one statue which happens to have a nose which matches that of Cleopatra's, if the likeness is accurate.

Just google Roman era busts or classical era busts. See, for example, Julius:
http://www.romanemperors.com/images/julius-caesar/7-image-bust.jpg

Marcus Agrippa, who was famously not of patrician birth:
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c3/9e/f4/c39ef42590817b2d316d87ddaab7ebba.jpg

Pompey:
http://mieladictos.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Pompeyo-236x300.jpg





You have to know the era when the piece of art was created. In some periods, the art is very stylized, with everyone looking approximately the same. In others, the art is more realistic. In the above pictures, the depictions appear very realistic. In others, there's idealization going on, perhaps, or stylistic conventions. That's usually from earlier periods.

Then there's the fact that other than in the case of, say, political figures, art sometimes celebrates people whom the artists consider beautiful. Antinous is the famous example. He was considered the most beautiful man of the time.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ni7Xf01Q_iU/TVP4pWyis3I/AAAAAAAAEEc/X1QO68w8UCU/s1600/Antinous-fd0009.jpg

I also hardly think they're putting bigger noses on statues necessarily to show power in a political figure. Antinous was the catamite of the Emperor Hadrian.

Also, the women depicted didn't have button, upturned noses, either. Here is a Greek statue of the goddess Flora:
http://www.youmagazine.gr/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/03458954589GCE250.jpg

Vibia Sabina:
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b6/c4/bf/b6c4bfd09aec9447c509525b6c761c2a.jpg

If you wish to continue the discussion, the following threads might be more appropriate.

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/30832-Recognizing-ethnicity-by-the-nose?highlight=noses

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/34349-Actual-living-human-examples-of-the-Classical-phenotype?highlight=classical+phenotype

Let the Members to judge for themselves. I don’t think that I’m wrong. [emoji846]

Angela
10-03-18, 18:24
Let the Members to judge for themselves. I don’t think that I’m wrong. [emoji846]

Facts are facts. All classical era statues did not depict people with noses with a "hook" at the tip. You cherry picked one to make whatever deeper point you're trying to make, which, in fact, eludes me. You get to have your own opinions. You don't get to have your own facts.

If you mean that larger noses on men suggest more "masculinity", "power", "strength of character", then I would agree in my own case. It may also be a cultural view in some areas, since that's also an old wives tale my nonna told me. She also told me that a church is nothing without a nice campanile. Sort of related ideas. :)

Salento
10-03-18, 18:38
Facts are facts. All classical era statues did not depict people with noses with a "hook" at the tip. You cherry picked one to make whatever deeper point you're trying to make, which, in fact, eludes me. You get to have your own opinions. You don't get to have your own facts.

If you mean that larger noses on men suggest more "masculinity", "power", "strength of character", then I would agree in my own case. It may also be a cultural view in some areas, since that's also an old wives tale my nonna told me. She also told me that a church is nothing without a nice campanile. Sort of related ideas. :)

You’re right. I purposely omitted those tales. All Nonne Rules! :)

Angela
10-03-18, 18:55
Men are hunters indeed, they don't need an excuse. It's part of 'being a man'.
Women occasionally hunt too, or want to be hunted, but they won't admit it and find some excuse for their behaviour. And they are more looking for attention than sex, but sex counts too if they feel deprived.

I see it the same way. Men and women are just different, in this as in many other ways. When men say that having an extra-marital affair, for example, is not about love, and they're in fact still in love with their wives, I believe them. A neighbor of mine was in a marriage like that. She did everything she could to keep him faithful, from what I could see, even, as she got older, having implants, a tummy tuck, constantly at the gym, spending a fortune on grooming etc. She certainly maintained her looks, but he was still unfaithful. When she finally had enough and filed for divorce, he was distraught, asking me to speak to her, to try to dissuade her. It just didn't and doesn't make any sense to me. Even if you want to behave this way, why would you hurt someone you "love" over and over again.

I also agree that women sometimes give sex in order to get attention, rather than out of any "drive" per se. The most promiscuous woman I ever met told me she doesn't even like it. I'm sure that would shock her partners.

There's also the fact that a good number of sexually promiscuous women are the victims of sexual abuse. Prostitutes often have such a history, for example.

I think the article to which Sile linked is interesting, however. Apparently, "successful" intimacy between people can release oxycodone, which causes bonding. The more "good" sex, the more intense the bond in every way. So, for both men and women, but I think more so for women, what may even start out as more "casual" sex, can become much more. You really can become "addicted" to another human being in that way. Women should be wary of giving into pressure on college campuses or anywhere else in order to "have a boyfriend".

Nik
10-03-18, 23:51
Nik, I don't know what to tell you. I don't know any women like that, young or old, although I'm sure there are some. In my experience, a good number of women don't even much like sex, even young ones. Trust me, women tell each other that stuff, even if they would never tell a man, and especially not a man they're hoping to entice into a long term relationship. Women have even perfected "faking it" for decades.

Even women who like it a lot would not necessarily consider traveling so they can have anonymous sex without social repercussions, even leaving aside any moral training. I'm sure there are some, but ALL, or even the majority? I doubt it. Christ, there aren't that many men who even appeal, then think about diseases, and the embarrassment the next morning when you want to get rid of him. Or, if it's someone whom you know, a colleague or neighbor, think of the incredible mess you'd be making. Absolutely not. Plus, to be honest, I've never encountered a man as sexually attractive as my own husband. Why go out for hamburger when you have steak at home?

Well, if Raoul Bova, or Antonio Cupo, or Carmine Signorelli, or Luca Calvani, or Daniele Pecci came around? :)
Actually, I'm just kidding. It has to be the whole package: looks, intellect, character, sense of humor etc.
Actually women don't share much with each other because they don't trust each other, and they're right about that. Why would they give away such "embarrassing" information that someone can use against you in the future or to get judged for simply accepting a biological need.

They'd never tell a man indeed, but I was always a friend that speaks openly about these topics and admit everything to their face. Only then almost everyone that is close enough to me or other friends opens up.

I get what you're saying about not liking sex and I've noticed that mainly in women that lost their virginity after marriage and had kids immediately, but I also know maaany cases that it's women from that category that go nuts in their 30s and 40s because of their midlife crisis for having missed out on things like special feelings, emotions, adventure, etc.

But with each other? Yeah of course, it's all what you said. And you can't fake a real orgasm because no women would make herself look ridiculous/stupid/mental and have the entire body move like they're possessed just to make their man feel better. The fake ones are too perfect and "sexy".

Again from my experience and I believe this to be true, when women are the majority in a society like Russia for instance they're more "easy" but in the same time they play the princess and perfect wife material, whereas Swedish girls don't even care to play any games or impress you with a fake personality and character traits.

Angela
11-03-18, 02:44
Actually women don't share much with each other because they don't trust each other, and they're right about that. Why would they give away such "embarrassing" information that someone can use against you in the future or to get judged for simply accepting a biological need.

They'd never tell a man indeed, but I was always a friend that speaks openly about these topics and admit everything to their face. Only then almost everyone that is close enough to me or other friends opens up.

I get what you're saying about not liking sex and I've noticed that mainly in women that lost their virginity after marriage and had kids immediately, but I also know maaany cases that it's women from that category that go nuts in their 30s and 40s because of their midlife crisis for having missed out on things like special feelings, emotions, adventure, etc.

But with each other? Yeah of course, it's all what you said. And you can't fake a real orgasm because no women would make herself look ridiculous/stupid/mental and have the entire body move like they're possessed just to make their man feel better. The fake ones are too perfect and "sexy".

Again from my experience and I believe this to be true, when women are the majority in a society like Russia for instance they're more "easy" but in the same time they play the princess and perfect wife material, whereas Swedish girls don't even care to play any games or impress you with a fake personality and character traits.

Yes, of course, Nik, you know women better than I do. I've only been one all my life, and have had very close women friends all my life as well. :) Yet, women have told you confidences that they wouldn't tell another woman, even a very close personal friend. Please....

Did it ever occur to you that only a certain kind of woman is going to tell some man all her sexual secrets? I don't know a single woman who would allow this kind of prying into her private sexual life. You think some even half way traditional woman is going to engage with you in that way? If some man had ever pestered me like that to talk about my private sexual life I'd sock him in the face and call security. Then I'd tell my boyfriend/husband, who would probably beat him to a pulp. Nowadays, I'd slap him with a sexual harassment suit. This is the kind of stuff Harvey Weinstein did, although he did a lot worse. Still, it's gross.

Either they're very promiscuous girls/women, who are still a minority, or, because you were pestering them they told you wild tales of sexual derring do, the way a woman would talk to a man on a paid sex phone line. Those women, btw, are usually completely bored during work hours, filing their nails, making up grocery lists etc. Men can be such fools sometimes.

Sorry, I wouldn't take anything women like this said seriously.

Salento
11-03-18, 04:35
Yes, of course, Nik, you know women better than I do. I've only been one all my life, and have had very close women friends all my life as well. :) Yet, women have told you confidences that they wouldn't tell another woman, even a very close personal friend. Please....

Did it ever occur to you that only a certain kind of woman is going to tell some man all her sexual secrets? I don't know a single woman who would allow this kind of prying into her private sexual life. You think some even half way traditional woman is going to engage with you in that way? If some man had ever pestered me like that to talk about my private sexual life I'd sock him in the face and call security. Then I'd tell my boyfriend/husband, who would probably beat him to a pulp. Nowadays, I'd slap him with a sexual harassment suit. This is the kind of stuff Harvey Weinstein did, although he did a lot worse. Still, it's gross.

Either they're very promiscuous girls/women, who are still a minority, or, because you were pestering them they told you wild tales of sexual derring do, the way a woman would talk to a man on a paid sex phone line. Those women, btw, are usually completely bored during work hours, filing their nails, making up grocery lists etc. Men can be such fools sometimes.

Sorry, I wouldn't take anything women like this said seriously.

Deleted ( pressed wrong button )

Salento
11-03-18, 04:47
If a man believes that his “goal” about a woman has been reach, it’s usually the other way around. It was her “goal” all along. She’s the Conqueror. She allows it. Men are a the Women’s mercy.
We pretend that we’re cool, and show-off. We are delusional in this matter.
- Not me obviously ! - :)

Nik
11-03-18, 09:54
Yes, of course, Nik, you know women better than I do. I've only been one all my life, and have had very close women friends all my life as well. :) Yet, women have told you confidences that they wouldn't tell another woman, even a very close personal friend. Please....

Did it ever occur to you that only a certain kind of woman is going to tell some man all her sexual secrets? I don't know a single woman who would allow this kind of prying into her private sexual life. You think some even half way traditional woman is going to engage with you in that way? If some man had ever pestered me like that to talk about my private sexual life I'd sock him in the face and call security. Then I'd tell my boyfriend/husband, who would probably beat him to a pulp. Nowadays, I'd slap him with a sexual harassment suit. This is the kind of stuff Harvey Weinstein did, although he did a lot worse. Still, it's gross.

Either they're very promiscuous girls/women, who are still a minority, or, because you were pestering them they told you wild tales of sexual derring do, the way a woman would talk to a man on a paid sex phone line. Those women, btw, are usually completely bored during work hours, filing their nails, making up grocery lists etc. Men can be such fools sometimes.

Sorry, I wouldn't take anything women like this said seriously.
An entire post where you're insulting my intelligence, morals, and judging people you don't even know. You can do better than that.

This is not a competition of who knows women better. You could reason that you fall into a specific category of women and so do your friends, but don't think you're morally superior to the ones I'm talking about and come up with bs like they're completely bored, filling their nails, etc. You heard something new so treat it that way instead of playing the 'I know it all'. Am I right here, or infraction o'clock is approaching?

Then this talk about sexual harassment is even weirder. Again, jumping from an assumption to another when you could just ask me and I'd tell you the exact situation. I hate dates and the idea of having to impress a woman, so imagine me being accused of sexual harassment when I'm usually so uninterested and bored that women say "what's the matter with this guy. how come he hasn't hit on us yet or not even shown interest?".

Also, I wouldn't make assumptions on conversations and I had with hookers, strippers, or any type of immoral women I could have met. When I hear the same things from women who are rare and way above average on the moral scale, then I'd think that there's a pattern and reality in it and it makes sense. We are all animals and sex makes us feel good/crazy. If it doesn't, then you have a problem.

Angela
11-03-18, 15:55
OK Nik, like I said you're the go to expert about female sexuality. You should charge a fee. :)

Jovialis
11-03-18, 16:10
judging people you don't even know.

If this is your impressions about most women, I think it's ironic that you say this. What you're saying sounds like some kind of hyperbolic fabrication.


I hate dates and the idea of having to impress a woman
Wow, what a casanova you are. :rolleyes2:

Jovialis
11-03-18, 16:48
@Salento

A Roman nose does not look the way you described it, nor does it look like that statue of Cleopatra's. The pictures Angela posted are more representative of it, and as we can see from Pompey, they didn't all have a uniform nose. At any rate, that's off-topic; so that's all I'm going to say in regards to it in this thread.

Salento
11-03-18, 17:06
@jovalis I I was talking about noses in general.
I said that Cleopatra looks Greekish, not Roman.
Read it!

Angela
11-03-18, 17:12
Salento, just stop. Why are you insisting that a nose with a hook at the bottom is the definitive or typical nose for either Romans or Greeks? I don't get it. Did you google Greek and Roman art and statuary? It just isn't the case as anyone can see.

Salento
11-03-18, 17:15
Ok. [emoji846] got it. :)

Nik
11-03-18, 18:06
OK Nik, like I said you're the go to expert about female sexuality. You should charge a fee. :)
Someone has to be.

P.s. for the rest, I'm only sharing my opinion and experience, but Angela has the power to counter opinions and experiences too if they don't match hers.


If this is your impressions about most women, I think it's ironic that you say this. What you're saying sounds like some kind of hyperbolic fabrication.
Sorry, to which sentence were you referring too?

And whatever that sentence might be, when you equal sexuality with "impression about women" means that you're the kind of person that judges people over trivial matters. There's more to a woman than her biological needs/desires which we all have but since 2000 years some of us continue to carry a milder version of the idea that beautiful women are witches and should be burnt.

Ironically, I think more highly of women than I do of men. They're the reason why most humans grow up sane and loved and they're the first to push for family, commitment, responsibility, as well as taking care of parents or siblings. We men are on average way below women in all those regards.

Wow, what a casanova you are. :rolleyes2:

You seem confused as to what casanova means, boy. I thought everyone should know that what I stated is the extreme opposite of a casanova.

Jovialis
11-03-18, 19:09
@Nik
It's clear to me that you know nothing about women. As a matter of fact, I'd suggest you stop embarrassing yourself. I also suggest you choose your words carefully, and don't speak to me in a disrespectful manner. I don't know what kind of women you're supposedly hanging out with, but it sounds absolutely ridiculous. As a matter of fact, it sounds like you're t-rolling with your strident manner, and weird anecdotes. Or you get your knowledge from watching YouTube videos made by embittered individuals.

hrvclv
11-03-18, 19:34
A few suggestions of mine. No-one is expected to fully (or, for that matter, even partly) agree. Hope I won't shock anybody.

I think we should not put everything in the same "bag", but distinguish between situations. Our sex life is determined by diverse urges and conflicting priorities. Also, "nature" and "culture" probably often clash in such matters.

Sex. "Nature". Sex is one of the most deeply ingrained instincts in the human psyche, along with self-preservation. I can't think why women wouldn't share in it equally with men. I think a healthy single woman, in the contraceptive pill era, can be just as tempted as a man by an overnight no-strings-attached affair with a good "performer". What may hold her back is "culture" - centuries of religious/moral coercion mostly imposed by men (see below) - and a concern for her social image.
As for men, I think sex has always somehow been connected with "power". Men are caught in a sort of tacit Darwinian competition for more… - more land, more money, more glory, more political power... and more women. Collecting women is part of that quest for fame, for influence. It comes down to saying : "See, guys… I'm the best". It's that "mine is bigger" kind of stuff. It all begins in High School, and you get trapped in it, whether you like it or not.

Procreation. Also a deeply rooted "need", linked to that notion that having children is somehow a way of "surviving oneself". In this perspective, after millenia of a perilous life in often precarious conditions, women may have learnt to pick their men on one criterion : reliability. Then they would no longer look for a sex mate, but for a father, who would help, care and protect. I'll concede it's no longer true in modern industrialized societies, where women can cope alone, and sometimes choose to. But millenia of fear probably left a lasting subconscious trace. In a wilder world, men, being on the whole more muscular, more aggressive, not subjected to the hazards of pregnancies, were more efficient in fighting off predators and enemies, providing, etc... (Hence patriarchy, probably). Before the pill, with risks of pregnancy running high, and knowing what men are like, it was no doubt safer for a woman to put her partner's commitment to the test beforehand, just in case…
On the men's side, there was always that lingering fear that the child might not be his own. To remove the doubts, men used both brawn and brain, chose to constrain and compel, and invented various tricks : social discredit, religious proscriptions, harems... Faithfulness in their women guaranteed better chances of legitimate offspring.
So priorities were different, but pointed towards the same end : institutional monogamy.

Marriage. Logically followed. But marriage is a long-term contract. So it involves other forms of attachment than just mutual physical attraction or a "paternal profile" : respect, tenderness, shared values, etc… basically, what we call "love". Marriage, in my opinion, is not "natural". It is "cultural". It helps sublimate desires that would otherwise be among the most animal ones in humans. For centuries, women were married off to men they had hardly met. Not all those marriages were failures. When people prove considerate, things can work out. And sex, whether satisfactory or not, becomes, to a degree, a side issue.

I think we are all heirs to those conflicting temptations and injunctions. Then upbringing, moral standards, experience – and maybe mere chance – make the difference.

Angela
12-03-18, 03:36
Some science may throw some light on the matter, particularly on the biological component. It's all about the testosterone, imo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_promiscuity

http://www.rebelcircus.com/blog/heres-the-average-number-of-sexual-partners-a-person-has-in-a-lifetime/

For Salento and hrvclv: I think you're living in a bit of a dream world. Not even most men have a lot of partners. :)

Ed. Wow. Look what I missed! More excitement than on "The Walking Dead"! :)

Salento
12-03-18, 05:30
@Angela
Me? Living in a dream world? Today has Literally Happen. True.
I’m living the dream! gone Tropical. Left the cold behind. (just for next few days).
Maybe I’m a bit stupid and boring. Nothing I can do about It, but , I don’t think so at all. :)

hrvclv
12-03-18, 08:51
@Angela. Better than The Walking Dead, but not half as good as Sex and the City. You should see how some very married, very middle-aged women behave when away from home on seminars. Hardly any difference from males. And, before the old clichés re-emerge, I'm not talking about French women. A dream world ? I wouldn't call it that... More like a nightmare world in some respects. Or more likely somewhere in between : men (homo, not vir) will be men, half way between god and beast...

[Edit] Your Wikipedia link above confirms part of (most of) what I wrote. I wonder why my remarks were - it seems, kind of disdainfully - brushed aside.

hrvclv
12-03-18, 12:50
Know then thyself, presume not God to scan;
The proper study of Mankind is Man.
Plac 'd on this isthmus in a middle state,
A being darkly wise and rudely great:
With too much knowledge for the Sceptic side,
With too much weakness for the Stoic 's pride,
He hangs between ; in doubt to act, or rest;
In doubt to deem himself a God, or Beast;
In doubt his mind or body to prefer;
Born but to die, and reas 'ning but to err;
Alike in ignorance, his reason such,
Whether he thinks too little, or too much ;
Chaos of Thought and Passion , all confus 'd;
Still by himself abus 'd, or disabus 'd;
Created half to rise, and half to fall;
Great lord of all things, yet a prey to all;
Sole judge of Truth, in endless Error hurl 'd:
The glory, jest, and riddle of the world !

Alexander Pope (1688-1744)

Angela
12-03-18, 14:44
@Angela. Better than The Walking Dead, but not half as good as Sex and the City. You should see how some very married, very middle-aged women behave when away from home on seminars. Hardly any difference from males. And, before the old clichés re-emerge, I'm not talking about French women. A dream world ? I wouldn't call it that... More like a nightmare world in some respects. Or more likely somewhere in between : men (homo, not vir) will be men, half way between god and beast...

[Edit] Your Wikipedia link above confirms part of (most of) what I wrote. I wonder why my remarks were - it seems, kind of disdainfully - brushed aside.

I didn't at all mean to brush aside your remarks, much less disdainfully. I'm sorry you took it that way.

To disagree, and perhaps not totally, doesn't mean I hold your opinions in contempt. I do disagree slightly. As for the links, the way I understood the data is that while there are indeed some women who have had multiple sexual partners, without commitment, the modern perception put about by television shows like "Sex in the City" are an exaggeration. A lot of women, the majority, in my opinion, don't act that way at all.

I love the Pope poem, btw, and agree with the sentiments. How nice someone else around here likes poetry. :)