PDA

View Full Version : New Member Introduction S7461->B5022->BY5415



FuriousGeorge
06-03-18, 23:30
Hi.

I've compelted SNP and STR yDNA testing. I'm interested in historical migrations.

My known ancestry is 5 generations on the Iberian Peninsula in NW Spain, close to the Portuguese border. The sixth generation is a mystery, the nature of which is still part of our extended family legend, though that's not why I'm testing.

I was surprised to see that most of my matches had Germanic last names. I have two potential matches in Spain, related to me on the order of 800 years ago, if they are true matches. I'm fairly certain one is, as the genetic distance is only 7 at 67, which puts the estimated TMRCA at around 550 years. In my limited experience, however, matches tend to get farther as more markers are compared.

After that, nearly all of my results are Germanic or Anglo sounding, save for a smattering in the area of the Balkans. Essentially, they are from both groups that would be over-represented. The former because more people from English speaking countries have taken the test, and would have more ancestors in countries that speak Germanic languages, and the latter because V13 is so common in the area.

I'm waiting to get .BAM results, eventually, from ftdna. After that I'm out of tests to do. Not many matches, no real close matches, and still not sure how many are just real matches.

I'm curious if my paternal ancestors were linked to Roman expansion, and subsequently what they were doing in the middle ages, and where. It seems likely that they arrived at Iberia during the Renaissance, and the circumstances surrounding that would probably be the most interesting, given that there'd be more known history for context.

My closest matches who have checked 111 markers and are at least S7461 (no one in my BY5145 clade on ftdna to look at STR markers for), believe themselves to be Norman, and have a family tree going back to Normandy at the advent of surnames. On yfull, I share the most SNPs with English and American kits, and per isogg's wiki, the TMRCA for snp matches on yfull is ~2500 ya.

Based on that, I expect to match them pretty strongly.

I have no matches on ftdna, and I've read TMRCA is ~1500 years or less in that case, so that suggests I'm related to them American/English kits in the range of 1500 to 2500 years ago.

If number of shared snp correlates strongly with that, then I'd suspect I'd be closer to the front end of the range for the kits with which I share 12 snp and closer to the back end of the range for the kit's with which I share 3. A couple of snp are only 1 star however.

Judging by the part of the world, aside from the Romans, the Bretons, Suevi, or Visigoths, a religious pilgrimage could have also brought V13.

The data is sparse enough that it is impossible to know. At least for me it is. Msg me if you're interested in any of my kit numbers or test results. I have many, but I can't paste links.

eastara
10-03-18, 12:46
The tree of S7461 is still not clear as nobody from the Balkan members have done the Big Y test. Several Bulgarians are tested with the V13 pack, one is BY5465, a couple stops at BY5022, but many SNPs under are not tested.
The Druze branch seems to have a recent founder effect, but still split from the others 3100 years ago. Unless many Europeans found with it, the connection is before historical times.

FuriousGeorge
11-03-18, 07:55
The tree of S7461 is still not clear as nobody from the Balkan members have done the Big Y test. Several Bulgarians are tested with the V13 pack, one is BY5465, a couple stops at BY5022, but many SNPs under are not tested.
The Druze branch seems to have a recent founder effect, but still split from the others 3100 years ago. Unless many Europeans found with it, the connection is before historical times.

They would be important to determining when the line originated, correct? I'm sure you saw the other post in the topic with respect to that. I thought raf's argument seemed to stand up well to review.

Also, some of those TMRCAs given for yfull data don't seem to reconcile with each other. I see how they calculate it is pretty straightforward ((oldest line age + youngest line age) / 2). But according to isogg's wiki, SNP matches are TMRCA < ~2500 ya, and both things cannot be true on that branch, as everyone appears to be a match to everyone else, except for the Swiss kit in the S7461 parent clade, which would only share 1 or 2 SNP with me.

If you look at archived versions, what tends to happen is that as people cluster off, and more branches are added, the maximum TMRCAs come down a bit, so I'd expect actual TMRCA to be less, no?

Lastly, I'm not sure that a recent founder effect does explain the Druze. At least I've read the exact opposite. Also, in the context of my results, they are not in the same terminal branch at this point, and one actually matches me relatively strongly, after the english/usa kits and the sardinian kit, respectively. The other is one of the most distant, along with the Saudi kit, in the *-branch, and the english one in the same terminal branch. That means there are at least a couple of markers one has that the other doesn't, including a couple that I share that yfull says are downstream of FGC44175.

All that said, when it comes to this I'm finding that very reasonable assumptions and inferences often turn out to be wrong, so let me no speak with too much certainty.

eastara
11-03-18, 14:16
Well, my understanding is if the origin time and TMRCA are calculated on the basis of SNPs, the more number of SNPs on the level of the older branch, the less is the TMRCA for all known subbranches. If there is only one SNP on the main branch, the origin and TMRCA must be equal. This is in fact the case with S7461 formed 4000 ybp, TMRCA 4000 ybp.
Sometimes YFULL has discrepencies, as they remove from the tree customers, who submitted their data, but did not pay, however still use their data for calculations.