PDA

View Full Version : EU participation on US bombing in syria



Ailchu
16-04-18, 19:42
ok so we all probably heard about these news. there were chemical weaons used in syria and the us and its allies immediately punished the syrian regime under assad. and personally i feel kinda shocked how fast we here in the west came to the conclusion that the chemical weapons were used by the syrian troops, who practically already conquered the region and would have had to expect consequences for the use of chemical weapons and not the rebels who reportedly already used chemical weapons themselves too and were about to lose. the islamist rebel group was named dschaisch al-islam and already committed several crimes against religious minorities.
so to me it seems like we actually have no idea who used these weapons and yet the usa, uk and france start to attack a side and germany's merkel calls the attacks justified and necessary. instead of dissaproving the actions of the usa the western european nations cheer to it and even participate.

i feel like most people here in europe do not actually realize what is going on right now. this is a disregard of international law right there.

LeBrok
16-04-18, 20:05
I'm sure you will tell us exactly what is going on. Make it easy, copy and paste from conspiracy websites.
Assad used chemical weapons dozens of times during this war. It was proven by international inspectors that he had factory and storages of poisonous gas. It is nothing new to be surprised. Stop inventing parallel universe dude.

Johane Derite
16-04-18, 20:16
ok so we all probably heard about these news. there were chemical weaons used in syria and the us and its allies immediately punished the syrian regime under assad. and personally i feel kinda shocked how fast we here in the west came to the conclusion that the chemical weapons were used by the syrian troops, who practically already conquered the region and would have had to expect consequences for the use of chemical weapons and not the rebels who reportedly already used chemical weapons themselves too and were about to lose. the islamist rebel group was named dschaisch al-islam and already committed several crimes against religious minorities.
so to me it seems like we actually have no idea who used these weapons and yet the usa, uk and france start to attack a side and germany's merkel calls the attacks justified and necessary. instead of dissaproving the actions of the usa the western european nations cheer to it and even participate.

i feel like most people here in europe do not actually realize what is going on right now. this is a disregard of international law right there.

In 99 me and my family and my entire neighborhood were kicked out of our houses by Serb Military and volunteer serb paramilitaries while Serb media was broadcasting all over belgrade and the world that

"Albanians aren't leaving or being kicked out, some are leaving only because they are scared of other Albanians, most are leaving because they are scared of NATO bombings"

They were sending out the most filthy lies to people like you.

This is just one of many things i'll never forget. Maybe you've been lucky to live such a sheltered life that you can't comprehend just how much people are willing to lie, but you
better believe that your being lied to.

Yetos
16-04-18, 20:36
I'm sure you will tell us exactly what is going on. Make it easy, copy and paste from conspiracy websites.
Assad used chemical weapons dozens of times during this war. It was proven by international inspectors that he had factory and storages of poisonous gas. It is nothing new to be surprised. Stop inventing parallel universe dude.



Yes,
and before Assant,
Sadam Houssein also had chemicals,
and there not only bomb, but also invade with ground forces,

While in Kossovo, the same who accuse others for chemicals,
bomb with depleted uranium, which if its burned, stays at atmosphere for days, before drops to ground,
and can travel enough distance as gas, so to breath it in,



COME ON.

Kim has Nuclear weapons, why they do not Bomb him?
infact he even threts USA and JAPAN


AND MOST OF ALL,
IF THEY CARE FOR CHAMICAL WEAPONS,
WHY THEY BOMB THEM?
BY BOMBING DEPOSITS OF CHEMICALS IT IS VERY DANGEROUS TO RELEASE THEM IN ATMOSPHEARE,

SO EITHER CHEMICALS WERE EXIST OR USED, OR PRODUCED, ETC
ME AND YOU WILL NEVER KNOW.

REMEMBER SADAM AND IRAQ FOR CHEMICAL WEAPONS,



PS
I am not supporter of Sadam, or Bin Laden, or Assant, etc
But come on,
we do not have to consume every trash news they use as excuse for their acts,


PS2

IN FACT USA FRANCE AND G BRITAIN HAS JUST PROVED US THAT ASSANT HAD NO CHEMICAL WEAPONS
WHERE THEY STROKE,
WHY?

consider few tanks/storage of Sharin gas,
lets say about 1-2 tons,
Do you know what will happen if you bomb them with Tomahawk missile?
They will be spread in atmosphere killing thousands,
DID THAT HAPPENED?
NO,
So either the Attack was a failure,
Either no chemical gasses existed

WE DO NOT CONSUME THE TRASH OF NEW ORDER.

Johane Derite
16-04-18, 20:39
Yes,
and before Assant,
Sadam Houssein also had chemicals,
and there not only bomb, but also invade with ground forces,

While in Kossovo, the same who accuse others for chemicals,
bomb with depleted uranium, which if its burned, stays at atmosphere for days, before drops to ground,
and can travel enough distance as gas, so to breath it in,



COME ON.

Kim has Nuclear weapons, why they do not Bomb him?
infact he even threts USA and JAPAN


AND MOST OF ALL,
IF THEY CARE FOR CHAMICAL WEAPONS,
WHY THEY BOMB THEM?
BY BOMBING DEPOSITS OF CHEMICALS IT IS VERY DANGEROUS TO RELEASE THEM IN ATMOSPHEARE,

SO EITHER CHEMICALS WERE EXIST OR USED, OR PRODUCED, ETC
ME AND YOU WILL NEVER KNOW.

REMEMBER SADAM AND IRAQ FOR CHEMICAL WEAPONS,



PS
I am not supporter of Sadam, or Bin Laden, or Assant, etc
But come on,
we do not have to consume every trash news they use as excuse for their acts,



You know nothing about "kossovo" so don't use it for your polemics.

Yetos
16-04-18, 20:43
You know nothing about "kossovo" so don't use it for your polemics.

the effect of bombing Kossyfo and generally ex-Yugoslavia reach my country
so Do not tell me about it.
many UN troops suffer from depleted uranium syndrom.

and much more kossovars,

remember the best cancer centers in Balkans were in Thessaloniki that time, and for lemphomas and leuchaimia the second best in the world at 1990-2010
one of the myelic transplantation pionners the founder of treatment, was a Greek who return from USA.
and the number of Albanians and kossovars tells a lot.

when my brother in law had problem
for every 3 Greeks there were 2 Albanians and 1 Fyrom for chemical cure, and transplantation
After the Kossovo bombing the rate of lemphomas raised 14% each year reaching 200% almost last decade,
and stabilize there.

We are living in the same peninsula.

Johane Derite
16-04-18, 21:07
the effect of bombing Kossyfo and generally ex-Yugoslavia reach my country
so Do not tell me about it.
many UN troops suffer from depleted uranium syndrom.

and much more kossovars,

remember the best cancer centers in Balkans were in Thessaloniki
and the number of Albanians and kossovars tells a lot.

I love how humanitarian and caring you become when its politically pragmatic for you.

Thank you for how much you seem to care about Albanians' health.

Interesting, what were you doing to stop the massacres that Serbs were doing against Albanian civilians that you care so much about?



https://i.imgur.com/XN2NwXq.jpg


This image above is very conservative as it only counts CONFIRMED kills of bodies that were found. At least 2000 people are still missing ( i know people who have family missing)
and the Serbian government still does not tell where they are or admit it. Did you know there was a mass grave with Albanian bodies found underneath a police station in BELGRADE?
Who knows where the rest are if they were transporting bodies all the way from Kosova to Belgrade.

https://i.imgur.com/ObpBcOs.png


Most serbian criminals never faced court, only some high profile hague cases. Whereas most people that actualy cut up people are living their lives in Serbia having their daily coffee.




Personalities like yours are so see through for me since I lived through it and your facade is so phony.

How come all these sensitivities about international law only start exploding when NATO or America bombs military sites and buildings?

How come there was no complaining about 200,000 dead in bosnia. How come when civillians are killed in extremely painful ways there is no arguing from you?


No, no, the real tragedy of the 90s is that some buildings in Belgrade were bombed...


Let me tell you a detail, Serbs were often using knives to conserve ammo, and the vast majority of the people slaughtered excruciatingly
by knives were either children or over 60 years old.

Albanians didn't have a military, they were only guerrilla fighters, many that never even had contact with each other. The vast majority of victims were unarmed civillians.

What were you doing to stop the children and senile people that were getting their throats cut?

Even if these cancer propaganda were true (they are 90% false propaganda, only 10% is true) it would be worth it.

This cancer propaganda is pure cynical evil that people like Seselj push. Seselj just recently was making up lies about Albanians being born with
two heads because of all the "uranium."

I almost feel sorry for you that you are this gullible and believe these things.

Yetos
16-04-18, 21:40
@ Derite

this thread has nothing to Do with Serbia-Albania arque about Kossovo.

I said about bombing with depleted uranium effects
Not about Albanians not about Serbians,

I think I was cautious and clear on what I wrote


WE ARE MOVING AWAY,

THE THREAD IS ABOUT EXISTANCE OF CHEMICALS, BOMBING SYRIA, AND POSSIBLE EFECTS OF BOMBING CHEMICALS.
NOT KOSSYFOPEDIO.


My negative for Kossovo is clear the usage of depleted uranium BY USA AND ITS ALLIES.
if it was needed or who was good or bad among Albanians or Serbs is another story,
my personal view even today is split of kossovo, part to Serbia, and rest unite with Albania
one Albania, one Serbia, not 2 Albanias, not 2 Serbias,
What kossovo is today is just a divide and conquer by big forces, and leave a problem behind, so to need us.
so to come back whenever they want.

I accept your post,
BUT I DISAGREE BY BOMBING WITH 'SMART WEAPONS' ordered by STUPID PEOPLE, FOR 'POSSIBLY REASONS', which are a possibly a hoax.



As for sensitivities,
we are here in the blog many years
Just find how opposite I was in cases with atrocities in Syria,
and also about what left the famous 'ARAB SPRING' in Africa.

I DO NOT TRUST 'NEW ORDER' just that,
and is proven in Libya,
in Iraq
and now in Syrria,

a total failure.
I suggest read my post better.


I DO NOT SUPPORT ASSANT,
BUT 6 YEARS TO SUPRESS ISIS
AND 7 YEARS WAR IS TOO MUCH
AND CONSIDERING THAT TURKEY MIGHT EXPAND BORDERS AT AFRIN
IT IS JUST RIDICULOUS FOR A COMMON MIND TO SWALLOW STUPIDITY.

Johane Derite
16-04-18, 21:51
@ Derite

this thread has nothing to Do with Serbia-Albania arque about Kossovo.

I said about bombing with depleted uranium effects


You made two comments about Kosova and these exxagerated uranium propaganda with some phony anecdotal stories about clinics. I'm leaving this thread now iapetoc

LABERIA
16-04-18, 21:59
@ Derite

this thread has nothing to Do with Serbia-Albania arque about Kossovo.

I said about bombing with depleted uranium effects
Not about Albanians not about Serbians,

I think I was cautious and clear on what I wrote


WE ARE MOVING AWAY,

THE THREAD IS ABOUT EXISTANCE OF CHEMICALS, BOMBING SYRIA, AND POSSIBLE EFECTS OF BOMBING CHEMICALS.
NOT KOSSYFOPEDIO.


My negative for Kossovo is clear the usage of depleted uranium BY USA AND ITS ALLIES.
if it was needed or who was good or bad among Albanians or Serbs is another story,
my personal view even today is split of kossovo, part to Serbia, and rest unite with Albania
one Albania, one Serbia, not 2 Albanias, not 2 Serbias,
What kossovo is today is just a divide and conquer by big forces, and leave a problem behind, so to need us.
so to come back whenever they want.

I accept your post,
BUT I DISAGREE BY BOMBING WITH 'SMART WEAPONS' ordered by STUPID PEOPLE, FOR 'POSSIBLY REASONS', which are a possibly a hoax.



As for sensitivities,
we are here in the blog many years
Just find how opposite I was in cases with atrocities in Syria,
and also about what left the famous 'ARAB SPRING' in Africa.

I DO NOT TRUST 'NEW ORDER' just that,
and is proven in Libya,
in Iraq
and now in Syrria,

a total failure.
I suggest read my post better.


I DO NOT SUPPORT ASSANT,
BUT 6 YEARS TO SUPRESS ISIS
AND 7 YEARS WAR IS TOO MUCH
AND CONSIDERING THAT TURKEY MIGHT EXPAND BORDERS AT AFRIN
IT IS JUST RIDICULOUS FOR A COMMON MIND TO SWALLOW STUPIDITY.

Yes, you made one of your usual comments about the effects of uranium in Greece without backing with any source.

Yetos
16-04-18, 22:37
Οκ

that is a source that accepts Depleted uranium
but denies the volume about ex-yugoslavia bombing

http://www.care.gr/post/2681/to-syndromo-ton-valkanion

http://www.skai.gr/news/world/article/37532/%CE%A3%CF%8D%CE%BD%CE%B4%CF%81%CE%BF%CE%BC%CE%BF-%CF%84%CF%89%CE%BD-%CE%92%CE%B1%CE%BB%CE%BA%CE%B1%CE%BD%CE%AF%CF%89%C E%BD/

500 Italian soldiers suffered by Kossovo Syndrom or else Balkan syndrom
and 42 Died

In Greece no one is willing to go anymore,
many soldiers sent Greek Goverment to courts of Justice to recogn the Balkan/Kossovo syndrom
BUT THE ORDER OF NATO is no SYNDROM

http://www.tanea.gr/news/greece/article/4166799/?iid=2

Italian republic suggested a moratorium against Depleted Uranium usage by NATO
but rejected.

Greece Italy and Portugal Medicines testify the Syndrom and send it for discussion in EU parliament
not the Goverments!!!!


In German
https://derstandard.at/3067647/255-Soldaten-am-Balkan-Syndrom-erkrankt

Leuhemia and lemphomas

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/balkan-syndrom-erster-deutscher-soldat-erkrankt-a-111023.html

https://derstandard.at/1231151762147/Praezedenzurteil-zu-Balkan-Syndrom

I know, cause my family spend almost 2 years in a time of 5 for Hodgekin disease.
I know cause I was there,
and I know things light has never seen

https://www.google.gr/search?rlz=1C1GGRV_enGR751GR751&biw=1920&bih=949&ei=mwnVWunvMofXUaiUvJAE&q=balkan+syndrome&oq=Syndrome+balca&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0i22i10i30k1.179492.193435.0.196974.30.25.4 .1.1.0.276.3645.0j23j1.24.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..1.27.3522...0j35i39k1j0i131k1j0i67k1j0i131i67k 1j0i10i67k1j0i203k1j0i22i30k1j33i160k1j0i8i13i30k1 j0i13k1j0i13i30k1j0i13i10i30k1j0i13i5i30k1j0i13i5i 10i30k1.0.q-ew9VzzSHA


AND IF YOU STILL BELIVE IS A MYTH
'FALLUJAH BABIES' VICTIMS OF DEPLETED URANIUM.

Lamphomas had a statistic of 14/100 000 Before ex-Yugoslavia division, in Greece, at Thessaly and about 11/100 000 in Makedonia aroung middle of 1980's
the rates around 2011 was above 40/100 000 when another person of mines suffered by lemphoma.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/dave-lindorff/depleted-uranium-weapons_b_326547.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-the-children-of-fallujah-the-hospital-of-horrors-7679168.html

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2013/oct/13/world-health-organisation-iraq-war-depleted-uranium

LABERIA
16-04-18, 22:43
Οκ

that is a source that accepts Depleted uranium
but denies the volume about ex-yugoslavia bombing

http://www.care.gr/post/2681/to-syndromo-ton-valkanion

http://www.skai.gr/news/world/article/37532/%CE%A3%CF%8D%CE%BD%CE%B4%CF%81%CE%BF%CE%BC%CE%BF-%CF%84%CF%89%CE%BD-%CE%92%CE%B1%CE%BB%CE%BA%CE%B1%CE%BD%CE%AF%CF%89%C E%BD/

500 Italian soldiers suffered by Kossovo Syndrom or else Balkan syndrom
and 42 Died

In Greece no one is willing to go anymore,
many soldiers sent Greek Goverment to courts of Justice to recogn the Balkan/Kossovo syndrom
BUT THE ORDER OF NATO is no SYNDROM

http://www.tanea.gr/news/greece/article/4166799/?iid=2

Italian republic suggested a moratorium against Depleted Uranium usage by NATO
but rejected.

Greece Italy and Portugal Medicines testify the Syndrom and send it for discussion in EU parliament
not the Goverments!!!!
I asked you for a source about this:

the effect of bombing Kossyfo and generally ex-Yugoslavia reach my country
so Do not tell me about it.
I hope this time you understand the question.

Yetos
16-04-18, 23:18
I asked you for a source about this:

I hope this time you understand the question.

hmm

Search the statistics of this team

Ath Fassas
I Sakellari
Sarigiannidis

as also the statistics of ABVD-Milan results per region

LABERIA
16-04-18, 23:25
hmm

Search the statistics of this team

Ath Fassas
I Sakellari
Sarigiannidis

as also the statistics of ABVD-Milan results per region

I have no reason to search, you have the burden of proof.

Yetos
16-04-18, 23:28
@ Lebrok

Troyan war was going to happen, nomatter was Elene, Yolanda, Heidi or Caroll.
Invasion against Sadam was going to Happen, no matter he had or not Chemicals
Same here with Syrria of Assant, Bombing was going to happen,
no matter he had or not chemicals,
simply a bad excusion, but we are not stupid,
are we?


my reply is in post #4.

LeBrok
17-04-18, 01:11
@ Lebrok

Troyan war was going to happen, nomatter was Elene, Yolanda, Heidi or Caroll.
Invasion against Sadam was going to Happen, no matter he had or not Chemicals
Same here with Syrria of Assant, Bombing was going to happen,
no matter he had or not chemicals,
simply a bad excusion, but we are not stupid,
are we?


my reply is in post #4.
I'm not surprised, that master CF showed up right away. Yetos, please get serious help. Your condition is getting worse. You might be suspended on Eupedia for a while to let people recover from this overdose of insanity recently.

Dreptul Valah
17-04-18, 04:06
I'm not surprised, that master CF showed up right away. Yetos, please get serious help. Your condition is getting worse. You might be suspended on Eupedia for a while to let people recover from this overdose of insanity recently.

Watch your tone ,you *****,because I can change your condition easily...


Maybe next time you spare us from this happy delirium...

Jovialis
17-04-18, 04:51
Watch your tone ,you *****,because I can change your condition easily...


Maybe next time you spare us from this happy delirium...

You've just received an infraction for insulting a moderator.

You better not be implying a threat with the part I underlined. Because that's not going to fly around here.

Yetos
17-04-18, 06:01
I'm not surprised, that master CF showed up right away. Yetos, please get serious help. Your condition is getting worse. You might be suspended on Eupedia for a while to let people recover from this overdose of insanity recently.

101 tomahawk missiles, from allies

how many barells of Sharin had Assant?

did the missiles hit correct?
I did not hear about spread chemicals above Assant's Syrria,
So what happened?

miisiles did found target?
or Assant did not had chemicals,
Or he moved them in other position,
I do not want to think the 3rd position,
cause of simple reasons of ridiculness of agents and satellites,

Ownstyler
17-04-18, 08:07
this is a disregard of international law right there.

Even if it is, so what? Is any of the sides not violating international "law"?

Ailchu
17-04-18, 15:49
I'm sure you will tell us exactly what is going on. Make it easy, copy and paste from conspiracy websites.
Assad used chemical weapons dozens of times during this war. It was proven by international inspectors that he had factory and storages of poisonous gas. It is nothing new to be surprised. Stop inventing parallel universe dude.

mhm and you know who also used chemical weapons during this war? rebel groups. and this was also proven.
but sure i got all my info from "conspiracy" websites? just google "dschaisch al-islam" or "army of islam".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaysh_al-Islam#Alleged_use_of_chemical_weapons
look up how many % of the rebels are jihadists and islamists. it was estimated at 60% a few years ago. we have no idea who used chemical weapons and we have no idea who is the good or at least the "better" side. the best thing imo is that the west accepts assad as leader of syria at least for now and stops turkey from attacking the kurds. its better to have assad in syria than islamist groups.

Ailchu
17-04-18, 16:05
"stop inventig parallel universe dude"
stop beeing biased. tell me, where did you get your info from if not from "conspiracy websites"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_chemical_weapons_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War#Re ported_chemical_weapons_attacks

funny how one of the first attacks was actually controlled by the opposition who wanted to bring down assad. and most following attacks were controlled by the opposition.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_chemical_weapons_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War#Re ported_chemical_weapons_attacks)

Ailchu
17-04-18, 16:13
also please read what is written under
U.S. (Obama administration)

"Former U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kerry), in a speech in Aspen, Colorado (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspen,_Colorado) on 28 June 2016, mentioned Jaysh al-Islam and Ahrar al-Sham (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahrar_al-Sham) as “subgroups” of "the terrorists" ISIL and Jabhat al-Nusra (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabhat_al-Nusra). US Obama administration officials disapproved this mention and told The Washington Post (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Washington_Post), who speculated that Kerry's comment may have been accidental, that it was inaccurate and could harm U.S. government efforts to convince the Russian and the Syrian governments not to attack Jaysh al-Islam and Ahrar al-Sham. The Post also reported that "Syrian [opposition] groups" saw Kerry's comments as an example of how the Obama administration has slowly moved toward the Russian view of Syria, which includes painting all opposition groups as terrorist organizations in order to justify attacking them.[88] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaysh_al-Islam#cite_note-Kerry's_Aspen_Statements_WaPo-89)
The US State Department in July 2016 confirmed that the US administration's policy with regard to Jaysh al-Islam had not changed: Jaysh was and is not a UN-designated terrorist group, is opposed to ISIL, and is not allied to Nusra."

the us is supporting groupls like these with weapons so of course they do not want them to be called terrorists.

LABERIA
17-04-18, 16:22
The images we saw of those poisoned children were really terrible. Then, if i'm not mistaken, Russia has refused the creation of a commission of inquiry under the aegis of the UN. For this the bombing was inevitable.
Trump is right when he calls Assad an animal. He was shown not only as an incapable leader, but by far exceeded his father with the massacres which he committed against his own people.

Ailchu
17-04-18, 16:27
The images we saw of those poisoned children were really terrible. Then, if i'm not mistaken, Russia has refused the creation of a commission of inquiry under the aegis of the UN. For this the bombing was inevitable.
Trump is right when he calls Assad an animal. He was shown not only as an incapable leader, but by far exceeded his father with the massacres which he committed against his own people.

but who poisoned them? look up the links and you will see that the opposition is capable of using it too. and i wouldn't accept the UN either when you see that it actually does not call obviously terrorist people terrorists.

Angela
17-04-18, 16:40
but who poisoned them? look up the links and you will see that the opposition is capable of using it too. and i wouldn't accept the UN either when you see that it actually does not call obviously terrorist people terrorists.

Really?

The Russians are not letting the UN observers in to examine the site. Why do you think that is? It takes a while to clean up the site, you know, to get rid of the evidence.

When are Europeans going to stop making excuses for the Russians? Their domination kept half of Europe 50 years behind the times for goodness' sakes.

LABERIA
17-04-18, 16:41
but who poisoned them? look up the links and you will see that the opposition is capable of using it too. and i wouldn't accept the UN either when you see that it actually does not call obviously terrorist people terrorists.

A commission of inquiry, as I said before, would have clarified many things.
Honestly, the biggest terrorist and criminal in this story is this idiot of Assad.

Yetos
17-04-18, 19:21
This post as it evolves, remind me an old Greek moto,

Ειπε ο γαιδαρος τον πετεινο κεφαλα,

and the Donkey said to Rooster, Yo Bighead!!!

who made who?
who made you?
who made who?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuFq3ynnBo8


Who made who, who made you?
If you made them and they made you
Who picked up the bill, and who made who?
Ain't noby told you



ONCE THAT WAS A FREE WORLD.
IS IT?

WHO BLAIM THE TREES,
BUT WE DENY TO SEE THE WHOLE FOREST.

Ailchu
18-04-18, 16:10
Really?

The Russians are not letting the UN observers in to examine the site. Why do you think that is? It takes a while to clean up the site, you know, to get rid of the evidence.

When are Europeans going to stop making excuses for the Russians? Their domination kept half of Europe 50 years behind the times for goodness' sakes.

i am not making excusees for the russians. but at least i try to look at what is actually happening in syria. russia has definitly its own interessts but why should i judge them but not also the us and the people who allie with them? this war is not about the syrian people in the eyes of russia but also not in the eyes of the US. people are just naive if they believe that. you now have israel vs syria(assad never liked israel and he also did not like america and america did not like assad) and iran, saudi-arabia(they were supporting the "army of islam") vs iran, turkey vs the kurds russia vs us and who kows who.

LeBrok
18-04-18, 16:27
i am not making excusees for the russians. but at least i try to look at what is actually happening in syria. russia has definitly its own interessts but why should i judge them but not also the us and the people who allie with them? this war is not about the syrian people in the eyes of russia but also not in the eyes of the US. you are just naive if believe that. you now have israel vs syria(assad never liked israel and he also did not like america and america did not like assad) and iran, saudi-arabia vs iran, turkey vs the kurds and who kows who. So what is the cause of Syria and Russia delaying inspectors into gas attack area? Figure out this biggest give away who did it and what!

Ailchu
18-04-18, 16:45
So what is the cause of Syria and Russia delaying inspectors into gas attack area? Figure out this biggest give away who did it and what!

and now you have the UN-security team that went ahead that is not allowing them to enter because of gunfire according to them.

LeBrok
18-04-18, 17:24
and now you have the UN-security team that went ahead that is not allowing them to enter because of gunfire according to them.Somehow you sound like Putin's propaganda machine.

Ailchu
18-04-18, 17:54
Somehow you sound like Putin's propaganda machine. why? that's what reuters is saying. but yes it could always be propaganda. you just seem to think that only russia uses propaganda. are the wiki links also propaganda? both sides used chemical weapons multiple times and yet we only hear from assad.

Ailchu
18-04-18, 18:22
"OPCW Director-General Ahmet Üzümcü said the United Nations Department of Safety and Security (UNDSS) had decided to carry out reconnaissance at two sites in the town of Douma before the inspectors would visit them.

“On arrival at site one, a large crowd gathered and the advice provided by the UNDSS was that the reconnaissance team should withdraw,” he told a meeting at the watchdog’s headquarters in remarks it later released. “At site two, the team came under small arms fire and an explosive was detonated. The reconnaissance team returned to Damascus.” "

what was the "large crowd"? why would the people there try to hinder the investigations? maybe paid by assad and russia. or something else.

Angela
18-04-18, 19:24
i am not making excusees for the russians. but at least i try to look at what is actually happening in syria. russia has definitly its own interessts but why should i judge them but not also the us and the people who allie with them? this war is not about the syrian people in the eyes of russia but also not in the eyes of the US. people are just naive if they believe that. you now have israel vs syria(assad never liked israel and he also did not like america and america did not like assad) and iran, saudi-arabia(they were supporting the "army of islam") vs iran, turkey vs the kurds russia vs us and who kows who.

Oh, I don't know, how about because it's not the U.S. that is trying to protect someone who is using chemical weapons against men, women, and children in his own country?

Where the hell is your moral compass?

Yetos
18-04-18, 20:11
oh boy.

we arque if Elen of Troy was beatyfull, and if she should be with Paris.
We arque about if Paris and Elen did the right or the wrong.
But troyan war was going to happen, either was Elene the excusion, either other.

In most News I read that the targets were chemical laboratories and factories,
and I ask,

if Syrria of Assant has a nuclear plant,
would you dare to bomb it?
IF Syrria of Assant has a chamical warfare plant, and storage
WOULD YOU DARE TO BOMB IT?

Surely not,
only an idiot would do such.
So either Assant has chemical warfare, either not,
the |Bombing was done to other strategic targets,
for reasons that only they who decide such Know,
and possibly we will never learn.

either Assant has chemicals and use them
either he has not and warfare were from ISIS remnants,

Same happened to Sadam's Iraq,
and
Oh!! sorry we did not found any chamicals!!!
but invasion and job was done,
and do not ask Sadam to forgive them,
neither restore him,
etc etc etc.

IT IS SILLY TO BELIEVE THAT ASSANT DO NOT POSSES CHEMICALS.
IT IS SILLY TO BELIEVE THAT REBELS DO NOT POSES CHEMICALS, mainly FROM THE ISIS (Al Nusra Al Qaida etc) or they can not have an acces by a supporter of them, a nearby country.

The true reason for bombing is elsewhere, not in the excusion.

YOU DO NOT BOMB CHEMICAL WEAPON WEAPON FACILITIES SO EASY,
AS YOU DO NOT BOMB A NUCLEAR PLANT SO EASY,
EXCEPT IF YOU ARE AN INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!

come on.
Either Assant USE CHEMICALS
Either he did NOT USE CHEMICALS
THE BOMBING MAIN MESSAGE, WAS OTHER.

it was certain that will not hit Russian bases,
as it was certain that Russian will not counter back.

LABERIA
18-04-18, 21:20
i am not making excusees for the russians. but at least i try to look at what is actually happening in syria. russia has definitly its own interessts but why should i judge them but not also the us and the people who allie with them? this war is not about the syrian people in the eyes of russia but also not in the eyes of the US. people are just naive if they believe that. you now have israel vs syria(assad never liked israel and he also did not like america and america did not like assad) and iran, saudi-arabia(they were supporting the "army of islam") vs iran, turkey vs the kurds russia vs us and who kows who.

I have a very simple question to ask. Does this Assad have any responsibility for the terrible situation in which his country lies?

Ailchu
18-04-18, 21:54
Oh, I don't know, how about because it's not the U.S. that is trying to protect someone who is using chemical weapons against men, women, and children in his own country?

Where the hell is your moral compass?

it is certainly not located in the white house. it is safe to assume that assad used chemical weapons. but so did the opposition. and if you checked the links you would know that they used them just as much as assad did.
and the U.S is not trying to protect anyone. it's sole goal is that assad and russias presence in syria are gone and that it can push it's own interessts just like russia is doing it. there was an incident 1949 were the usa wanted to build a pipeline through syria. the syrian government did not agree so they were replaced in a military coup staged by the CIA. that's why today syria is pro-russia and dislikes the US. today we have again a discussion about gas pipelines through syria and syria planed to build one 2011 that connects syria with iran and did not want one throug syria to turkey. that doesn't have to be significant but maybe it is.




if you speak german i can give you a link to an interview from swiss radio srf (schweizer rundfunk so definitly not pro assad,russia) with a good expert who mentiones this:
the jihadists (yes he calls them by their name even though the U.N doesn't want to call them this way, look up post earlier for reason, they are called like this pretty much everywhere), he even calls them hardcore jihadists, probably coming from ISIS or al quaida, who also occupied the region, had already capitulated and were already transported to idlip with buses according to the peace agreement. it simply makes no sense that the syrian army would use chemical weapons in this situation in this area. it could still be possible but one should still ask the question who really profits from this. he also says that most of the people fighting against assad in the last years are and were in fact jihadists and islamists.

why would the US and support terrorists with weapons? and why is it not going after the use of chemical weapons by these people in the same way?

btw. isn't it funny how turkey is supporting these groups but calls kurds terrorists? poor guys. after the usa completely abandoned them they are alone vs turkey. i still wonder what role turkey actally plays in this.

Yetos
18-04-18, 22:10
I have a very simple question to ask. Does this Assad have any responsibility for the terrible situation in which his country lies?

Same as USA that armed ISIS,
Same as Russia who took advantage in East med bases,
Same as Turkey who armed and supply Al Nusra

Same as EVERYONE.

Kantafi,
Sadam
bin Laden
the Father Assant
Al Qaida
etc

are not just one day project.
they do not wake up one morning, being life time presidents.

REMEMBER THE STORY OF AFGANISTAN
DECADES AFTER AND IS NOT OVER.

LABERIA
18-04-18, 22:34
Same as USA that armed ISIS,
Same as Russia who took advantage in East med bases,
Same as Turkey who armed and supply Al Nusra

Same as EVERYONE.

Kantafi,
Sadam
bin Laden
the Father Assant
Al Qaida
etc

are not just one day project.
they do not wake up one morning, being life time presidents.

REMEMBER THE STORY OF AFGANISTAN
DECADES AFTER AND IS NOT OVER.




I am sorry Yetos but your answer has nothing to do with my question. Maybe you quoted me wrongly.

Angela
18-04-18, 22:46
Same as USA that armed ISIS,
Same as Russia who took advantage in East med bases,
Same as Turkey who armed and supply Al Nusra

Same as EVERYONE.

Kantafi,
Sadam
bin Laden
the Father Assant
Al Qaida
etc

are not just one day project.
they do not wake up one morning, being life time presidents.

REMEMBER THE STORY OF AFGANISTAN
DECADES AFTER AND IS NOT OVER.




Why do Europeans have such a skewed view of history? Is it just prejudice and jealousy that prevents them from keeping the facts straight?

Afghanistan was armed primarily because of one U.S. legislator, Charlie Wilson, who thought they were noble peasants or tribesmen or whatever resisting the brutality of the Russian occupation.

He didn't know they had the culture and values of Bronze Age barbarians, and attitudes toward women and sexuaility (i.e. using young boys as sexual substitutes) which, had he known, would no doubt have appalled him.

As for ISIS, and Iraq, the problem has always been that Americans always assumed that people in far off places would become good citizens of a democracy if they were just given the choice. They've always been wrong. That lesson may only now be sinking in, and with it, growing isolationism. George Washington said that no good would come of foreign entanglements, and he was right. Some peoples are just not ready for it.

Dangerously naive, ok, but not evil. There is a tremendous difference between the Russians and the Americans. The Russians are providing aid and covering up WRONGDOING. They are doing it AFTER knowing that Assad will and has and is using chemical weapons against his people. How can you possibly compare that to Afghanistan or Iraq? It's absurd, so absurd that I will not bother to respond.

Ailchu
18-04-18, 23:03
I have a very simple question to ask. Does this Assad have any responsibility for the terrible situation in which his country lies?

he certainly has. but you can't tell me that a big part of the rebels, who actually have an islamist background and who were supported by the west, turkey, saudi-arabia and whoever also has interessts in this war, has no responsibility.

LABERIA
18-04-18, 23:15
he certainly has. but you can't tell me that a big part of the rebels, who actually have an islamist background and who were supported by the west, turkey, saudi-arabia and whoever also has interessts in this war, has no responsibility.

And what would be the responsibilities of Assad? All the people you mentioned have nothing to do with that country. They are foreigners, and they do not care about Syria. He, the president of this country, padre padrone, a kind of king without crown, what did he do to keep his country out of this whole story?

Ailchu
19-04-18, 00:37
And what would be the responsibilities of Assad? All the people you mentioned have nothing to do with that country. They are foreigners, and they do not care about Syria. He, the president of this country, padre padrone, a kind of king without crown, what did he do to keep his country out of this whole story?

if you want to search the one who is responsible for this war i can't help you. there always need to be 2 sides who want to fight. if you take up the sword you are responsible for the war. that doesn't mean that you have no right to fight. it just depends why you took up the sword.
assad had his supporters and he obviously also had his enemies and people who did not like him for many different reasons. they were never united and they are all equally responsible for this war. the only question is who is fighting for what reason and who should end up as the winner. as you said yourself these countries do not care about the syrian people and have their own plans. but as you can see only one side is marked for beeing evil while the other one seems to have the moral highground.

Yetos
19-04-18, 04:51
And what would be the responsibilities of Assad? All the people you mentioned have nothing to do with that country. They are foreigners, and they do not care about Syria. He, the president of this country, padre padrone, a kind of king without crown, what did he do to keep his country out of this whole story?


Notice

Sadam friends were baathists,
kantafi had support of certain tribes,
Assand has support of certain religious groups,
etc

at Syrria exists
The Pagan Yezidi Kurds, today Protected by UN
The Kurds
The Allevi Muslims
The Suni Muslims Arab Friendly
The Shiites Iran friendly
Sufi Muslims and Turk friendly
Assyrians
Maronites Christians (Arab-Levantine catholic)
Arab Orthodox Christians (Antiocheian patriarchate)


The situation there is a war not only among religious groups,
but also and among nationality groups,
and foreign volunteers and mercenairies.

A mess.
EVERYBODY AGAINST EVERYBODY.
ISIS vs Evrybody especially Yezidi for being Kufar
Al Qaida-Al Nusra vs Assant
Kurds vs ISIS
Assant vs Everybody
Turks vs Kurds and Assant
Iraq vs Everybody except Assant,
etc etc

Mark
19-04-18, 04:59
US should just change the flag to a giant white star with imperial red and blue bursts coming out like WWII Japan.

Yetos
19-04-18, 05:15
Why do Europeans have such a skewed view of history? Is it just prejudice and jealousy that prevents them from keeping the facts straight?

Afghanistan was armed primarily because of one U.S. legislator, Charlie Wilson, who thought they were noble peasants or tribesmen or whatever resisting the brutality of the Russian occupation.

He didn't know they had the culture and values of Bronze Age barbarians, and attitudes toward women and sexuaility (i.e. using young boys as sexual substitutes) which, had he known, would no doubt have appalled him.

As for ISIS, and Iraq, the problem has always been that Americans always assumed that people in far off places would become good citizens of a democracy if they were just given the choice. They've always been wrong. That lesson may only now be sinking in, and with it, growing isolationism. George Washington said that no good would come of foreign entanglements, and he was right. Some peoples are just not ready for it.

Dangerously naive, ok, but not evil. There is a tremendous difference between the Russians and the Americans. The Russians are providing aid and covering up WRONGDOING. They are doing it AFTER knowing that Assad will and has and is using chemical weapons against his people. How can you possibly compare that to Afghanistan or Iraq? It's absurd, so absurd that I will not bother to respond.

Afganistan before a century was a proud kingdom,
Afganistan problem starts after the collapse of British empire and generally end of European colonisation,
when Europeans left start a new war for opium control and profit
Afganistan today is the No 1 in world in production, 66% of global produaction
Notice the black money are huge in such countries,
Like South America states who 'produce' cocaine.
CHINA OPIUM WARS REMAINED IN HISTORY,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars

Next to Iran and Pakistan,
they had the most control,
that pushed Russians to enter to take control.
In Soviet and generally communistic societies, they could not control the 'kompot'
an invasion to Afganistan not would gave them inner control, but also a wider world control.
react from USA was to arm locals to resist the Russian occupation,
but in the place gathered many 'volunteers', many mercenairies, and many 'believers',
Like Giving free guns to Escobar and other cartel
The longer the war last, the more complex the situation,
SAME will be with Syrria. the longer the time of war,
the more Afganistan is going to be.

remember at the end of of 19th century,
a doctor in England produce heroin by morphine, which is product of opium
few decades later, the rich of bayer pharm co who produce heroin
were huge,

today not only heroin and morphine are produced
but also methadone, fentanyl, pethidine,
even sirops for cough, contain codeine, a mecon systatic

not only bayer and heroin
but Merck become a colossus by opium

today the pharmaceutical corporations are who knows how many.

The problem of Afganistan is that produces the 66% of global mecon plantations
but is not legal to sell it to pharmaceutical corporations,
and the longer that continues, the longer 'barbarians' will be.

AS FOR GOOD AND BAD GUY
Before WW2 it was Europe and colonial system that ruled the World,
after that was NATO and SOVIET
Today is NATO (not USA :innocent:)
oh, and that bad guy Putin,
strange but China make or pretend the Chinese on the corner (I don't see, I don't hear, i don't speak)
BUT SOME OF US,
EITHER IN EUROPE
EITHER IN AMERICA
EITHER IN RUSSIA,
STILL BELIVE IN THE FREE WORLD,
AND NATIONAL STATES.
NOT IN CAPITALISM, NOT IN COMMUNISM,
NOT IN CORPORATIONS, NOT IN MEDIA,


SO THE 'GAME' THAT WE PLAY TODAY,
IS FIND THE ELENE of TROY
so the future Historian write his poet.
but when a student ask the future Historian
who was the bad guy? what answer he would receive?
and the second question will be
What did Russia for that?
and the third will be
What did USA for that?
and next will be
What did EU for that?
etc
But what will he answer, if the question will be,
WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE?
Except the inner status, the mosaic
would He also mention the responsibility of foreign powers?,

LABERIA
19-04-18, 17:40
if you want to search the one who is responsible for this war i can't help you. there always need to be 2 sides who want to fight. if you take up the sword you are responsible for the war. that doesn't mean that you have no right to fight. it just depends why you took up the sword.
assad had his supporters and he obviously also had his enemies and people who did not like him for many different reasons. they were never united and they are all equally responsible for this war. the only question is who is fighting for what reason and who should end up as the winner. as you said yourself these countries do not care about the syrian people and have their own plans. but as you can see only one side is marked for beeing evil while the other one seems to have the moral highground.

My question was simple, but it is clear that you stubbornly refuse to give an answer. The reasons you know better.

Angela
19-04-18, 18:28
Afganistan before a century was a proud kingdom,
Afganistan problem starts after the collapse of British empire and generally end of European colonisation,
when Europeans left start a new war for opium control and profit
Afganistan today is the No 1 in world in production, 66% of global produaction
Notice the black money are huge in such countries,
Like South America states who 'produce' cocaine.
CHINA OPIUM WARS REMAINED IN HISTORY,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars

Next to Iran and Pakistan,
they had the most control,
that pushed Russians to enter to take control.
In Soviet and generally communistic societies, they could not control the 'kompot'
an invasion to Afganistan not would gave them inner control, but also a wider world control.
react from USA was to arm locals to resist the Russian occupation,
but in the place gathered many 'volunteers', many mercenairies, and many 'believers',
Like Giving free guns to Escobar and other cartel
The longer the war last, the more complex the situation,
SAME will be with Syrria. the longer the time of war,
the more Afganistan is going to be.

remember at the end of of 19th century,
a doctor in England produce heroin by morphine, which is product of opium
few decades later, the rich of bayer pharm co who produce heroin
were huge,

today not only heroin and morphine are produced
but also methadone, fentanyl, pethidine,
even sirops for cough, contain codeine, a mecon systatic

not only bayer and heroin
but Merck become a colossus by opium

today the pharmaceutical corporations are who knows how many.

The problem of Afganistan is that produces the 66% of global mecon plantations
but is not legal to sell it to pharmaceutical corporations,
and the longer that continues, the longer 'barbarians' will be.

AS FOR GOOD AND BAD GUY
Before WW2 it was Europe and colonial system that ruled the World,
after that was NATO and SOVIET
Today is NATO (not USA :innocent:)
oh, and that bad guy Putin,
strange but China make or pretend the Chinese on the corner (I don't see, I don't hear, i don't speak)
BUT SOME OF US,
EITHER IN EUROPE
EITHER IN AMERICA
EITHER IN RUSSIA,
STILL BELIVE IN THE FREE WORLD,
AND NATIONAL STATES.
NOT IN CAPITALISM, NOT IN COMMUNISM,
NOT IN CORPORATIONS, NOT IN MEDIA,


SO THE 'GAME' THAT WE PLAY TODAY,
IS FIND THE ELENE of TROY
so the future Historian write his poet.
but when a student ask the future Historian
who was the bad guy? what answer he would receive?
and the second question will be
What did Russia for that?
and the third will be
What did USA for that?
and next will be
What did EU for that?
etc
But what will he answer, if the question will be,
WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE?
Except the inner status, the mosaic
would He also mention the responsibility of foreign powers?,

Right: it's the fault of Iran and Pakistan that Russia invaded and occupied Afghanistan. They PUSHED Russia into doing it and doing it brutally as well.

Absolutely. You learn new things every day. Russia is just misunderstood. They took over all of eastern Europe for the sake of Eastern Europeans. They just wanted to HELP them. Anyone who says they drained them dry and oppressed them is a dastardly liar. Those damn Czechs and Hungarians and Poles just didn't know what was good for them. What were they thinking of to revolt?

Has it ever occurred to any of you people that the Berlin Wall, for example, had to be built to prevent East Germans from fleeing FROM the wonderful Communist system? On the other hand, some Americans want to build a wall to prevent the entire freaking world from fleeing TO us?

Listen buddy, if there's anything that everybody should have learned by now it's that capitalism, with all its flaws (which have to be guarded against), brings more prosperity to more people than any other system we have, and far more than communism. You know of another economic system you want to try?

You don't want to live in a democracy, flawed though it may be? Fine. VOTE in communism, or IMPOSE it by force, whatever, where you can be ruled by an oligarchy with their own stores and doctors and vacation spots while you pretend to work and they pretend to pay you, and they tell you where to live, where to work, what to buy. Prefer fascism? You've had it before. Knock yourself out.

That goes for all Europeans. Just don't ever again expect Americans to rescue you from either fascism or communism. I think America is finally out of the rescue business.

Ailchu
19-04-18, 19:32
My question was simple, but it is clear that you stubbornly refuse to give an answer. The reasons you know better.

your question was answered. i don't know what you want. that i say it was all assad's fault? that would be a lie. are you now also going to say that ISIS was assad's fault?
again, assad did not have the whole syrian people against him and not all took up arms. is it also their fault?
read the post before. syria is not a homogenous region with many different people with many different interessts. you have to look at why people took up arms. and more than half of the rebels are actually jihadists. are they not responsible?
you are still talking as if the majority of the rebels were fighting for democracy and human rights. but what the hell makes you think so? it is sadly not the case.

when the kurds start to take up arms in turkey against erdogan who is responisble? the kurds or erdogan?
when the catalonians want to be independent who is responsible? spain or the catalonians?

LABERIA
19-04-18, 19:58
your question was answered. i don't know what you want. that i say it was all assad's fault? that would be a lie. are you now also going to say that ISIS was assad's fault?
again, assad did not have the whole syrian people against him and not all took up arms. is it also their fault?
read the post before. syria is not a homogenous region with many different people with many different interessts. you have to look at why people took up arms. and more than half of the rebels are actually jihadists. are they not responsible?
you are still talking as if the majority of the rebels were fighting for democracy and human rights. but what the hell makes you think so? it is sadly not the case.
when the kurds start to take up arms in turkey against erdogan who is responisble? the kurds or erdogan?
when the catalonians want to be independent who is responsible? spain or the catalonians?

If in your country there is, for example, an economic crisis, you as a citizen, the first question you ask is, where is my government what the hell is happening here? You do not ask what happened on Wall Street or in City of London. And it's a very normal thing. Why you do not use the same standard here too?
I am an ignorant person about the current situation in Syria and i ask you because you look like an informed person. In this country called Syria there is a war going on from several years. This war has destroyed this poor country to such an extent that there is no person on earth and God in heaven who can return this country to the limits of normality. And it is normal that if we want to make a sincere analysis of the situation, the first question to ask is, what are the responsibilities of the current government in Syria for the situation created? And when we say government in Syria it is obvious that we mean Assad because he's been with his family for decades now ruling this country, not Putin, not Trump. Is the concept clear now?

Ailchu
19-04-18, 20:39
If in your country there is, for example, an economic crisis, you as a citizen, the first question you ask is, where is my government what the hell is happening here? You do not ask what happened on Wall Street or in City of London. And it's a very normal thing. Why you do not use the same standard here too?
I am an ignorant person about the current situation in Syria and i ask you because you look like an informed person. In this country called Syria there is a war going on from several years. This war has destroyed this poor country to such an extent that there is no person on earth and God in heaven who can return this country to the limits of normality. And it is normal that if we want to make a sincere analysis of the situation, the first question to ask is, what are the responsibilities of the current government in Syria for the situation created? And when we say government in Syria it is obvious that we mean Assad because he's been with his family for decades now ruling this country, not Putin, not Trump. Is the concept clear now?

the responsibilities he has? you mean why people took up arms against him right? the jihadists did it because of obvious reasons(assad even banned face veils at universities). then there are definitly also other people who wanted to fight for more personal freedom and you also have the kurds who now want to be independant. though i do not know when exactly the kurds really started with this idea. maybe they just try to make something out of this war but they actually didn't want to start it. those are the people who should be supported somehow. but they are too few vs too many. the srategy of the US seems to be that the jihadists overthrow assad.
but a big part of the syrian people actually seems to be still supporting assad. especially religious minorities.
though all i can do is google this stuff. i never was in syria myself.

https://www.quora.com/What-do-Syrians-think-of-Bashar-al-Assad
https://www.thoughtco.com/who-supports-the-syrian-regime-2353574
https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-Assad-is-actually-the-good-guy-in-Syria-not-the-bad-guy-Is-it-actually-the-rebels-and-ISIS-that-are-the-bad-guys-in-Syria


(https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-Assad-is-actually-the-good-guy-in-Syria-not-the-bad-guy-Is-it-actually-the-rebels-and-ISIS-that-are-the-bad-guys-in-Syria)

Yetos
19-04-18, 20:59
Right: it's the fault of Iran and Pakistan that Russia invaded and occupied Afghanistan. They PUSHED Russia into doing it and doing it brutally as well.

Absolutely. You learn new things every day. Russia is just misunderstood. They took over all of eastern Europe for the sake of Eastern Europeans. They just wanted to HELP them. Anyone who says they drained them dry and oppressed them is a dastardly liar. Those damn Czechs and Hungarians and Poles just didn't know what was good for them. What were they thinking of to revolt?

Has it ever occurred to any of you people that the Berlin Wall, for example, had to be built to prevent East Germans from fleeing FROM the wonderful Communist system? On the other hand, some Americans want to build a wall to prevent the entire freaking world from fleeing TO us?

Listen buddy, if there's anything that everybody should have learned by now it's that capitalism, with all its flaws (which have to be guarded against), brings more prosperity to more people than any other system we have, and far more than communism. You know of another economic system you want to try?

You don't want to live in a democracy, flawed though it may be? Fine. VOTE in communism, or IMPOSE it by force, whatever, where you can be ruled by an oligarchy with their own stores and doctors and vacation spots while you pretend to work and they pretend to pay you, and they tell you where to live, where to work, what to buy. Prefer fascism? You've had it before. Knock yourself out.

That goes for all Europeans. Just don't ever again expect Americans to rescue you from either fascism or communism. I think America is finally out of the rescue business.


Correct myLady,

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/Yalta_Conference_%28Churchill%2C_Roosevelt%2C_Stal in%29_%28B%26W%29.jpg/1200px-Yalta_Conference_%28Churchill%2C_Roosevelt%2C_Stal in%29_%28B%26W%29.jpg

DO NOT TELL A GREEK ABOUT EAST EUROPE OR WEST EUROPE,
WE ARE THE ONLY EUROPEANS WHO SUFFERED A 5 YEARS CIVIL WAR FOR COMMUNISM OR CAPITALISM,

I DO NOT SEE ANY CZECH, ANY HUNGARIAN, ANY POLISH, IN THE PICTURE, WHY?
OFFCOURSE I DO NOT SEE EVEN A GREEK, .
AT LEAST DO YOU SEE ANY ITALIAN THERE? JUST FOR THE QUESTION,
ANY CROAT OR SERB?
WHY? THEY DID NOT FOUGHT FOR FREEDOM?

NO, THE WINNER WERE USA, British Empire, AND RUSSIA,
The other nations did not fought for their Freedom, as it seems, at least in the eyes of USA President Franklin Roosevelt, and Russian/Soviet Joseph Stalin.
WHO DECIDED THE FUTURE OF SMALL NATIONS

Come on,
As for capitalism and Communism,
CAPITALISM TODAY IS DEAD, AS ALSO COMMUNISM,
TODAY WE LIVE THE DICTATORSHIP OF BANKERS IN THE WEST,
AND 'PRESIDENT' MAFIA IN THE EAST.

YES myLady,
small Nations have no will,
THE BIG ONES decide for them!!!!!!
As happened in YALTA.



YOU ARE SPEAKING TO A GREEK,
WHO MAYBE (thank Gods Not in very close family) HIS FAMILY WAS DIVIDED AND FOUGHT EACH OTHER, or kidnapped abroad
FOR THE SHAKE OF STALIN AND ROOSEVELT chess game and DIVISION OF THE WORLD.

if you think that today we have "Free world'
and not dictatorship even to modern Goverments,
Well, at LEAST WE STILL HAVE SOME FREEDOM OF SPEECH, I hope.
BUT SURELY WE ARE BRAINWASHED BY MEDIA,
SO NOT TO THINK, THEY THINK FOR US.

Bomb bomb Caserola chauldron grenade
(I hope FBI do not invate my house :laughing:)

THE PARADOX OR THE TRAGIC
THE MOST SUCCEFULL COUNTRY,
IN THE MODERN CAPITALISTIC WORD
IS THE COMMUNISTIC CHINA, :innocent:
WOW (is the world turning crazy? or I am stupid? :grin:)


EAST EUROPE WAS GIVEN TO STALIN,
NOT TAKEN,
WONDER BY WHO AND WHERE THAT AGREEMENT WAS DONE!!!!!
offcourse Eastern Europeans were there, but as properties, as land, as cattle for bargain, not Free will.


PS
black market existed in ex Soviet
kompot was the heroin behind Iron Curtain

plain handmade heroin is still cheap enough for cancer pains
heroin is still the most powerfull in women trafficing drug

Do not mess with the 'humblle farmers of opium' :useless:
they are usefull,
as also the 'humble farmers of coca'
they are usefull too

Enough, my mind is going to blow,
by just thinking what to eat,
easier is to eat already chewed brain food by media.

PS 2
Winston Churchill
was he a communist? :petrified:
Is that a cuban cigar he is holding? :shocked:
hm
HOW COME HE ESCAPE Joseph Mc Carthy :laughing:

if I smoke Cohiba, what am i?
Communist or capitalist? :heart:

Yetos
19-04-18, 21:19
If in your country there is, for example, an economic crisis, you as a citizen, the first question you ask is, where is my government what the hell is happening here? You do not ask what happened on Wall Street or in City of London. And it's a very normal thing. Why you do not use the same standard here too?
I am an ignorant person about the current situation in Syria and i ask you because you look like an informed person. In this country called Syria there is a war going on from several years. This war has destroyed this poor country to such an extent that there is no person on earth and God in heaven who can return this country to the limits of normality. And it is normal that if we want to make a sincere analysis of the situation, the first question to ask is, what are the responsibilities of the current government in Syria for the situation created? And when we say government in Syria it is obvious that we mean Assad because he's been with his family for decades now ruling this country, not Putin, not Trump. Is the concept clear now?


LABERIA
BETTER ASK YOUR SHELF,
WHO CREATED SYRRIA,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2%80%93Picot_Agreement

WHEN YOU UNDERSTAND WHO CREATED SYRRIA,
THE OFFCOURSE YOU MIGHT UNDERSTAND HER FUTURE,

LABERIA
19-04-18, 21:31
LABERIA
BETTER ASK YOUR SHELF,
WHO CREATED SYRRIA,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2%80%93Picot_Agreement

WHEN YOU UNDERSTAND WHO CREATED SYRRIA,
THE OFFCOURSE YOU MIGHT UNDERSTAND HER FUTURE,

Thanks for your suggestion Yetos, i know who created SYRRIA.
I want to suggest to you and to this german member to read this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milo_%C4%90ukanovi%C4%87

Ailchu
19-04-18, 21:53
the majority of the population is syria is sunni-muslim. that's where "al-nusra", "front of islam", "army of islam", ISIS, "Ahrar al-Sham (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahrar_al-Sham)", and also the free syrian army, FSA, come from. the later wasn't officially islamist but it later lost many its members because they joined islamist groups and it also cooparated with other islamist groups. it was also said that the FSA was selling the weapons, that it got from america and others, to ISIS. maybe they once were not islamist but it seems they were hijacked.
there really doesn't seem to be one major rebel group that is not islamist right now except the kurds. thats also why the US supported the kurds so they could fight ISIS. there was simply no other group that wasn't infiltrated already and motivated to fight them. afterwards the US abandoned the kurds again.

LeBrok
20-04-18, 03:44
the majority of the population is syria is sunni-muslim. that's where "al-nusra", "front of islam", "army of islam", ISIS, "Ahrar al-Sham (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahrar_al-Sham)", and also the free syrian army, FSA, come from. the later wasn't officially islamist but it later lost many its members because they joined islamist groups and it also cooparated with other islamist groups. it was also said that the FSA was selling the weapons, that it got from america and others, to ISIS. maybe they once were not islamist but it seems they were hijacked.
there really doesn't seem to be one major rebel group that is not islamist right now except the kurds. thats also why the US supported the kurds so they could fight ISIS. there was simply no other group that wasn't infiltrated already and motivated to fight them. afterwards the US abandoned the kurds again.Everything you say goes in line with Russian version of events. I wonder why?

Mich Glitch
20-04-18, 07:00
Everything you say goes in line with Russian version of events. I wonder why?

Everything you say goes in line with US version of events. I wonder why?
Don't you forget Iraq my friend?
They even don't need to invent something new for guys like you.
Who need this event (so called "chemical attack")? Assad? Russians? I really don't think so.
Don't tell me stupidities a-la Angela about Putin propaganda. I can say the same about your brainwashed opinion.

Jovialis
20-04-18, 07:31
Everything you say goes in line with US version of events. I wonder why?
Don't you forget Iraq my friend?
They even don't need to invent something new for guys like you.
Who need this event (so called "chemical attack")? Assad? Russians? I really don't think so.
Don't tell me stupidities a-la Angela about Putin propaganda. I can say the same about your brainwashed opinion.

Healthy debate does not involve ad hominem attacks, especially on moderators. You've received an infraction for this.

Yetos
20-04-18, 07:48
Everything you say goes in line with Russian version of events. I wonder why?

When I said about occupy wall street, you laughed,
and it is in the annex of Democracy, and different opinions,

Tell me, When you said that Putin & Assant will raise the oil prices,
Was it your idea? or a repley radio broadcast?

Come on,

There is no need to revive Stalinism, neither McCarty-ism,

I will not survive another another civil war, or Junda,


PS
Do you know the story of my avatar?

Ailchu
20-04-18, 13:15
Everything you say goes in line with Russian version of events. I wonder why?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahrar_al-Sham (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahrar_al-Sham)
"Ahrar al-Sham became the largest rebel group in Syria after the Free Syrian Army became less powerful. Ahrar al-Sham and Jaysh al-Islam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaysh_al-Islam) are the main rebel groups supported by Turkey (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey) and Saudi Arabia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia)."

"Ahrar al-Sham leader Hassan Aboud (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassan_Aboud) stated that Ahrar al-Sham worked with the Nusra Front (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nusra_Front) and would have no problems with al-Nusra as long as they continued fighting the regime. Aboud also said Ahrar worked with the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant) (ISIL) in some battles, but that their agenda was disagreeable."

""He said all parties, whether they were ISIL, al-Nusra, the Islamic Front (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Front_(Syria)), or the FSA, shared the same objective of establishing an Islamic state, but they differed as to the "tactics, strategies or methods""



"Ahrar al-Sham has defined itself in this way:

The Islamic Movement of the Free Men of the Levant is an Islamist, reformist, innovative and comprehensive movement. It is integrated with the Islamic Front and is a comprehensive and Islamic military, political and social formation. It aims to completely overthrow the Assad regime in Syria and build an Islamic state whose only sovereign, reference, ruler, direction, and individual, societal and nationwide unifier is Allah Almighty's Sharia (law)."

Mich Glitch
20-04-18, 17:08
Healthy debate does not involve ad hominem attacks, especially on moderators. You've received an infraction for this.

Sure. So called freedom of speech and expression is just another myth of our society.
Many people believe that USA bomb and kill to improve the world.
Many people.
Believe.
Not me.
I don't wanna discuss with these true belivers their faith.
I am here for genealogy only.

Angela
20-04-18, 22:51
Correct myLady,

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/Yalta_Conference_%28Churchill%2C_Roosevelt%2C_Stal in%29_%28B%26W%29.jpg/1200px-Yalta_Conference_%28Churchill%2C_Roosevelt%2C_Stal in%29_%28B%26W%29.jpg

DO NOT TELL A GREEK ABOUT EAST EUROPE OR WEST EUROPE,
WE ARE THE ONLY EUROPEANS WHO SUFFERED A 5 YEARS CIVIL WAR FOR COMMUNISM OR CAPITALISM,

I DO NOT SEE ANY CZECH, ANY HUNGARIAN, ANY POLISH, IN THE PICTURE, WHY?
OFFCOURSE I DO NOT SEE EVEN A GREEK, .
AT LEAST DO YOU SEE ANY ITALIAN THERE? JUST FOR THE QUESTION,
ANY CROAT OR SERB?
WHY? THEY DID NOT FOUGHT FOR FREEDOM?

NO, THE WINNER WERE USA, British Empire, AND RUSSIA,
The other nations did not fought for their Freedom, as it seems, at least in the eyes of USA President Franklin Roosevelt, and Russian/Soviet Joseph Stalin.
WHO DECIDED THE FUTURE OF SMALL NATIONS

Come on,
As for capitalism and Communism,
CAPITALISM TODAY IS DEAD, AS ALSO COMMUNISM,
TODAY WE LIVE THE DICTATORSHIP OF BANKERS IN THE WEST,
AND 'PRESIDENT' MAFIA IN THE EAST.

YES myLady,
small Nations have no will,
THE BIG ONES decide for them!!!!!!
As happened in YALTA.



YOU ARE SPEAKING TO A GREEK,
WHO MAYBE (thank Gods Not in very close family) HIS FAMILY WAS DIVIDED AND FOUGHT EACH OTHER, or kidnapped abroad
FOR THE SHAKE OF STALIN AND ROOSEVELT chess game and DIVISION OF THE WORLD.

if you think that today we have "Free world'
and not dictatorship even to modern Goverments,
Well, at LEAST WE STILL HAVE SOME FREEDOM OF SPEECH, I hope.
BUT SURELY WE ARE BRAINWASHED BY MEDIA,
SO NOT TO THINK, THEY THINK FOR US.

Bomb bomb Caserola chauldron grenade
(I hope FBI do not invate my house :laughing:)

THE PARADOX OR THE TRAGIC
THE MOST SUCCEFULL COUNTRY,
IN THE MODERN CAPITALISTIC WORD
IS THE COMMUNISTIC CHINA, :innocent:
WOW (is the world turning crazy? or I am stupid? :grin:)


EAST EUROPE WAS GIVEN TO STALIN,
NOT TAKEN,
WONDER BY WHO AND WHERE THAT AGREEMENT WAS DONE!!!!!
offcourse Eastern Europeans were there, but as properties, as land, as cattle for bargain, not Free will.


PS
black market existed in ex Soviet
kompot was the heroin behind Iron Curtain

plain handmade heroin is still cheap enough for cancer pains
heroin is still the most powerfull in women trafficing drug

Do not mess with the 'humblle farmers of opium' :useless:
they are usefull,
as also the 'humble farmers of coca'
they are usefull too

Enough, my mind is going to blow,
by just thinking what to eat,
easier is to eat already chewed brain food by media.

PS 2
Winston Churchill
was he a communist? :petrified:
Is that a cuban cigar he is holding? :shocked:
hm
HOW COME HE ESCAPE Joseph Mc Carthy :laughing:

if I smoke Cohiba, what am i?
Communist or capitalist? :heart:

Yes, you swing from fascism to communism and back. It's democracy which seems difficult for you, even in ancient times. You wouldn't have been able to win that post WWII battle against Communists without our help, but you conveniently seem to forget that. Or perhaps you would have preferred for the Communists to win?

Could you ever address the point instead of meandering all over the place? My point was that the Hungarians revolted in the 50s, the Czechs after that,and then the Poles. If Soviet domination was so wonderful, why did they revolt?

As for Yalta, the major powers, who won and also spilt the most blood and treasure, divided up the spheres of influence. Has it ever been otherwise in the history of the world? The only problem is that Roosevelt was ill and let Stalin run roughshod over him, and before that didn't let American troops go all the way to the borders of Russia and stop them there. A terrible mistake. That's what sometimes happens when political leaders don't listen to their generals.

You can't possibly mean to compare the fate of Western Europe to Eastern Europe after the war? I don't really give a damn whether it was ultimately good for American business or not. Business and trade was good for everyone, Europe and the U.S. as well. I, for one, am glad that Italy modernized and industrialized at an even faster clip after the war. There's nothing romantic about herding sheep and goats or being a subsistence farmer. Much better to work in electronics and computers. I can't remember conquered countries ever being treated so well. They rebuilt in record time, became prosperous in record time. Western Europe wasn't a prison, unlike the East. People wanted to stay. Is there some resentment at American influence? Yes, there is. It's human nature. Would it please some Europeans better if after winning your damn war for you, AGAIN, America just pulled out and let you muddle through for decades by yourselves? It's absurd.

As for the Greek civil war, you're damn right that Russia supported the Communists and the U.S. the other side. Would you prefer the U.S. had let Greece fall under Communist domination. Would Greece have been better off?

What I find objectionable about your whole point of view is that for you Greece is always the victim, never an active participant in its own fate. The Communists who killed and tortured Greeks, and abducted Greek children to send them to "education camps" were GREEKS. Stop blaming everyone else.

We had a Civil War in Italy too, for two years under Nazi occupation, and then for almost a year later. Some of the partisans, especially the Communist ones, killed the people of the Fascist brigades and vice versa even after the war was over and there was no reason other than revenge. I don't know anyone who goes around blaming the Americans or the Russians for that. If some Italians killed other Italians, whether justified or not depending on the circumstances, it's on the head of the people who did it. I don't even blame the Germans for what the Italian fascists did (although I sure blame them for what they themselves did). They CHOSE to do it. We're not puppets of other people. We're not victims when we take sides in these major conflicts. When you make certain choices you have to take the consequences, including the moral ones.

You should read the memoir "Eleni" by Nicholas Cage, about his mother, who was arrested, tortured, and executed by Greek communists for the crime of saving her children from being kidnapped and sent behind the Iron Curtain for re-education. Or maybe it isn't sold in Greece for some reason.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/224285.Eleni

A. Papadimitriou
20-04-18, 23:41
Yes, you swing from fascism to communism and back. It's democracy which seems difficult for you, even in ancient times. You wouldn't have been able to win that post WWII battle against Communists without our help, but you conveniently seem to forget that. Or perhaps you would have preferred for the Communists to win?


You have said that many times but stop it. You haven't helped anyone personally, the government of USA did support a side but the actions of major powers are dictated by their interests. I would have supported the non-communist side (although former Nazi collabolators were part of that side too) but communists lost because Soviet Union didn't really support them.

Yetos
21-04-18, 00:11
Yes, you swing from fascism to communism and back. It's democracy which seems difficult for you, even in ancient times. You wouldn't have been able to win that post WWII battle against Communists without our help, but you conveniently seem to forget that. Or perhaps you would have preferred for the Communists to win?

Could you ever address the point instead of meandering all over the place? My point was that the Hungarians revolted in the 50s, the Czechs after that,and then the Poles. If Soviet domination was so wonderful, why did they revolt?

As for Yalta, the major powers, who won and also spilt the most blood and treasure, divided up the spheres of influence. Has it ever been otherwise in the history of the world? The only problem is that Roosevelt was ill and let Stalin run roughshod over him, and before that didn't let American troops go all the way to the borders of Russia and stop them there. A terrible mistake. That's what sometimes happens when political leaders don't listen to their generals.

You can't possibly mean to compare the fate of Western Europe to Eastern Europe after the war? I don't really give a damn whether it was ultimately good for American business or not. Business and trade was good for everyone, Europe and the U.S. as well. I, for one, am glad that Italy modernized and industrialized at an even faster clip after the war. There's nothing romantic about herding sheep and goats or being a subsistence farmer. Much better to work in electronics and computers. I can't remember conquered countries ever being treated so well. They rebuilt in record time, became prosperous in record time. Western Europe wasn't a prison, unlike the East. People wanted to stay. Is there some resentment at American influence? Yes, there is. It's human nature. Would it please some Europeans better if after winning your damn war for you, AGAIN, America just pulled out and let you muddle through for decades by yourselves? It's absurd.

As for the Greek civil war, you're damn right that Russia supported the Communists and the U.S. the other side. Would you prefer the U.S. had let Greece fall under Communist domination. Would Greece have been better off?

What I find objectionable about your whole point of view is that for you Greece is always the victim, never an active participant in its own fate. The Communists who killed and tortured Greeks, and abducted Greek children to send them to "education camps" were GREEKS. Stop blaming everyone else.

We had a Civil War in Italy too, for two years under Nazi occupation, and then for almost a year later. Some of the partisans, especially the Communist ones, killed the people of the Fascist brigades and vice versa. I don't know anyone who goes around blaming the Americans or the Russians. If some Italians killed other Italians, whether justified or not depending on the circumstances, it's on the head of the people who did it. I don't even blame the Germans for what the Italian fascists did (although I sure blame them for what they themselves did). They CHOSE to do it. We're not puppets of other people. We're not victims when we take sides in these major conflicts. When you make certain choices you have to take the consequences, including the moral ones.

You should read the memoir "Eleni" by Nicholas Cage, about his mother, who was arrested, tortured, and executed by Greek communists for the crime of saving her children from being kidnapped and sent behind the Iron Curtain for re-education. Or maybe it isn't sold in Greece for some reason.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/224285.Eleni

hm

plz
USA did nothing for greek civil war.
USA just made us a Junda at 1967,
and she also disband it at 1973 to bring another Dictator to mess withCyprus so Attila plan work,
(remember Henry Kissinger)
It was Churcill who send the ANZAC and the 3000 Indians of Scombie,
Roosevelt just gave Greece to Stalin,
Churchill disagreed,
and yes communists in Greece at that time were enough.
more than you think, reching 70% in some areas,
remember the Disater of '22-23, not even 2 decades, meaning 1 generation past and WW2 started.

But Greeks also turn the face to Communism due to Blent treaty,
and Belingrad congress, the mix of Dimitrov of third communist international.
Communists wanted to create Makedonia as a Slavic country, so to exit Meditterenean,
that move made Greeks turn their back to communism,
Communists organisations and military groups from 40 % of population, and armed of 25-30% remained less than 8 % and 3%,
Barkiza treaty, as also the case of greek communists president Zahariades is known.

USA did nothing for Greek civil war,
and when we volunteer for Korea at '50s
we had more casulties by USA artillery, than chinese army.

the only thing that USA did was 'marshal plan' (rofl)
and a Junda, and because Junda did not obey Kissinger,
they change it (president of CIA at Clinton's presidency, Robin) to bring another to mess with Cyprus,

COME ON.

WW2 casulaties did had only USA and RUSSIA AND BRITAIN,
search who had bigger in analogy, not in numbers.


AND I AM PROUD,
CAUSE MY COUNTRY FOUGHT AGAINST FASISM AND NAZISM, AND COMMUNISM,
AND ALSO DOES NOT CHEW AMERICAN GUM,
ALTHOUGH SHE IS UNDER CONTROL,
WE DO NOT CHEW THEIR SHIT.
SIMPLY AS THAT.

I know about Eleni Gkatzoyianni
and that hurt us all Greeks, 2 generations after, and will keep more,
as many others.

My family in the years of civil war were considered fasists, (my grand father was double taxated, and other relatives were 'rich', so 2 times they took him to hung him)
and at the times of Junta were considered Communists, (they arrested my father for gathering of relatives in his name day, some of them Communists)

For their Democratic believes, for not being devoted to the 'system' these groups provide,

SO IF YOU BELIVE IN DEMOCRACY,
THEN YOU MUST RESPECT THE RIGHTs OF OTHERS, to SHELF CONTROL
ESPECIALLY THE FREEDOM OF SPEACH,
DOES THAT HAPPENED AT YALTA?
NO BIG POWERS DIVIDE THE WORLD, AND CREATE ZONES OF INFLUENCE, ( or control)

WHO LEGALIZE ROOSEVELT AND STALIN TO DIVIDE GERMANY?
OR TO RULE OVER POLAND? OR BELGIUM? etc

SO MAY I KEEP MY SHELF THE TERMINATION FREE,
NOT A COMMUNIST, NOT A MODERN CAPITALIST?

I want to spend capitalistic USA dollars, and Smoke communistic Cuban Cohiba :biggrin:
I want to eat italian pizza from Ukraine's grain , and drive a german car made in Brazil, use francais perfumes made in cote d'ivore,
watch chinese communistic karate movies, and play korean capitalistic video games,
under a japanese clima / air-condition, with the sounds of british metal music
But really I do not want to drink cola. but Greek coffee from Kenya
MAY I?
I DO NOT WANT COMMUNISM
I DO NOT WANT MONEY DICTATORS, or DEMOCRACY PADRONES,

offcourse you can ask me about the politician in my country,
and all I couls say is .....
and you would have a big part of right and truth.

DEMOCRACY NEED NO PADRONES TO PROTECT HER, ( or to sell her)
so as person there are a lot of Russian who I admire
there are a lot of Americans who I admire
BUT I WANT TO STAY OUT OF THEIR GAMES AS THIS IS POSSIBLE, BECAUSE I STILL HAVE PRSONALITY, AND I AM FREE, as the last can be possible today
CAUSE PLANET TODAY IS NOTHING MORE THAN A SMALL VILLAGE,
THERE IS MORE CHAOS IN BIG CITIES, THAN IN PLANET AND UN.

The theory of ΤΟ ΜΗ ΧΕΙΡΟΝ ΒΕΛΤΙΣΤΟΝ (ancient Greek rhyme) Among 2 bad things, the less harmfull is better, means not one out of two, is a good thing, but less harmfull.

Angela
21-04-18, 00:35
You have said that many times but stop it. You haven't helped anyone personally, the government of USA did support a side but the actions of major powers are dictated by their interests. I would have supported the non-communist side (although former Nazi collabolators were part of that side too) but communists lost because Soviet Union didn't really support them.

Who are you to tell me I can't express my opinion about these things? You don't get to tell me how to interpret history, the history of a time period I've spent a good part of my life studying.

You prove my point. It's always someone else's fault, never your own.

It's the same thing with this financial quagmire. Your government decided to lie on its application to the EU. It also decided to buy worthless bonds. Were the people who sold them at fault? Of course, they were. That doesn't excuse your government's criminal lack of due diligence in investigating the bonds or its fraud on the EU.

I've always hated the fact that so many Italians are the first to trash their own country and their own leaders, but it's better than excuses upon excuses and always playing the victim.

Angela
21-04-18, 01:22
hm

plz
USA did nothing for greek civil war.
USA just made us a Junda at 1967,
and she also disband it at 1973 to bring another Dictator to mess withCyprus so Attila plan work,
(remember Henry Kissinger)
It was Churcill who send the ANZAC and the 3000 Indians of Scombie,
Roosevelt just gave Greece to Stalin,
Churchill disagreed,
and yes communists in Greece at that time were enough.
more than you think, reching 70% in some areas,
remember the Disater of '22-23, not even 2 decades, meaning 1 generation past and WW2 started.

But Greeks also turn the face to Communism due to Blent treaty,
and Belingrad congress, the mix of Dimitrov of third communist international.
Communists wanted to create Makedonia as a Slavic country, so to exit Meditterenean,
that move made Greeks turn their back to communism,
Communists organisations and military groups from 40 % of population, and armed of 25-30% remained less than 8 % and 3%,
Barkiza treaty, as also the case of greek communists president Zahariades is known.

USA did nothing for Greek civil war,
and when we volunteer for Korea at '50s
we had more casulties by USA artillery, than chinese army.

the only thing that USA did was 'marshal plan' (rofl)
and a Junda, and because Junda did not obey Kissinger,
they change it (president of CIA at Clinton's presidency, Robin) to bring another to mess with Cyprus,

COME ON.

WW2 casulaties did had only USA and RUSSIA AND BRITAIN,
search who had bigger in analogy, not in numbers.


AND I AM PROUD,
CAUSE MY COUNTRY FOUGHT AGAINST FASISM AND NAZISM, AND COMMUNISM,
AND ALSO DOES NOT CHEW AMERICAN GUM,
ALTHOUGH SHE IS UNDER CONTROL,
WE DO NOT CHEW THEIR SHIT.
SIMPLY AS THAT.

I know about Eleni Gkatzoyianni
and that hurt us all Greeks, 2 generations after, and will keep more,
as many others.

My family in the years of civil war were considered fasists, (my grand father was double taxated, and other relatives were 'rich', so 2 times they took him to hung him)
and at the times of Junta were considered Communists, (they arrested my father for gathering of relatives in his name day, some of them Communists)

For their Democratic believes, for not being devoted to the 'system' these groups provide,

SO IF YOU BELIVE IN DEMOCRACY,
THEN YOU MUST RESPECT THE RIGHTs OF OTHERS, to SHELF CONTROL
ESPECIALLY THE FREEDOM OF SPEACH,
DOES THAT HAPPENED AT YALTA?
NO BIG POWERS DIVIDE THE WORLD, AND CREATE ZONES OF INFLUENCE, ( or control)

WHO LEGALIZE ROOSEVELT AND STALIN TO DIVIDE GERMANY?
OR TO RULE OVER POLAND? OR BELGIUM? etc

SO MAY I KEEP MY SHELF THE TERMINATION FREE,
NOT A COMMUNIST, NOT A MODERN CAPITALIST?

I want to spend capitalistic USA dollars, and Smoke communistic Cuban Cohiba :biggrin:
I want to eat italian pizza from Ukraine's grain , and drive a german car made in Brazil, use francais perfumes made in cote d'ivore,
watch chinese communistic karate movies, and play korean capitalistic video games,
under a japanese clima / air-condition, with the sounds of british metal music
But really I do not want to drink cola. but Greek coffee from Kenya
MAY I?
I DO NOT WANT COMMUNISM
I DO NOT WANT MONEY DICTATORS, or DEMOCRACY PADRONES,

offcourse you can ask me about the politician in my country,
and all I couls say is .....
and you would have a big part of right and truth.

DEMOCRACY NEED NO PADRONES TO PROTECT HER, ( or to sell her)
so as person there are a lot of Russian who I admire
there are a lot of Americans who I admire
BUT I WANT TO STAY OUT OF THEIR GAMES AS THIS IS POSSIBLE, BECAUSE I STILL HAVE PRSONALITY, AND I AM FREE, as the last can be possible today
CAUSE PLANET TODAY IS NOTHING MORE THAN A SMALL VILLAGE,
THERE IS MORE CHAOS IN BIG CITIES, THAN IN PLANET AND UN.

The theory of ΤΟ ΜΗ ΧΕΙΡΟΝ ΒΕΛΤΙΣΤΟΝ (ancient Greek rhyme) Among 2 bad things, the less harmfull is better, means not one out of two, is a good thing, but less harmfull.

You're completely incoherent, illogical, and appallingly ignorant of your own history. I guess you should talk to your fellow Greek. He at least seems to be aware of the 600 million dollars in aid that was given to Greece during the Greek Civil War.

See:
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a284240.pdf

There aren't an infinite number of economic systems out there. The one that runs the best and produces the most gain for the most people is capitalism. That should be obvious. The smartest thing to do is become more capitalistic, and cut out as much corruption as possible.

As for being under the sphere of influence of the U.S., that's the way of the world. Small countries are under the influence of larger, more powerful countries. Once upon a time the top dog was Greece, then Italy, then eventually England, then Russia and the U.S. and now it's only America. Maybe someday it will be China. I assure you that of the major powers and soon to be powers of today you're much better off being in the American sphere. Plus, I hate to break the news to you, but you're not really on the U.S. radar other than when you default on your debt. If you pay your bills all the U.S. wants to do is trade with you. Your internal affairs are your business unless they threaten to disrupt the peace and prosperity of other countries.

That's the reality. You're dealing in fantasy. There's nothing to be gained by talking to people who prefer fantasy to reality, so I'm out.

Salento
21-04-18, 03:13
- United We Stand -
United States of America
“one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all”


https://youtu.be/mjrdywp5nyE

LABERIA
21-04-18, 06:04
hm
plz
I want to spend capitalistic USA dollars, and Smoke communistic Cuban Cohiba
I want to eat italian pizza from Ukraine's grain , and drive a german car made in Brazil, use francais perfumes made in cote d'ivore,
watch chinese communistic karate movies, and play korean capitalistic video games,
under a japanese clima / air-condition, with the sounds of british metal music
But really I do not want to drink cola. but Greek coffee from Kenya

MAY I?
Of course, but in the end, who pays the bill for all these things?

Yetos
21-04-18, 06:44
You're completely incoherent, illogical, and appallingly ignorant of your own history. I guess you should talk to your fellow Greek. He at least seems to be aware of the 600 million dollars in aid that was given to Greece during the Greek Civil War.

See:
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a284240.pdf

There aren't an infinite number of economic systems out there. The one that runs the best and produces the most gain for the most people is capitalism. That should be obvious. The smartest thing to do is become more capitalistic, and cut out as much corruption as possible.

As for being under the sphere of influence of the U.S., that's the way of the world. Small countries are under the influence of larger, more powerful countries. Once upon a time the top dog was Greece, then Italy, then eventually England, then Russia and the U.S. and now it's only America. Maybe someday it will be China. I assure you that of the major powers and soon to be powers of today you're much better off being in the American sphere. Plus, I hate to break the news to you, but you're not really on the U.S. radar other than when you default on your debt. If you pay your bills all the U.S. wants to do is trade with you. Your internal affairs are your business unless they threaten to disrupt the peace and prosperity of other countries.

That's the reality. You're dealing in fantasy. There's nothing to be gained by talking to people who prefer fantasy to reality, so I'm out.


So to the roasted meat dish,
and avoid garniture,

1. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT USA IS INNOCENT ABOUT SYRRIA?
I DO NOT SAY RESPONSIBLE.
I SAY THAT IT HAS a % OF RESPONSIBILITY.

2. Do you believe that SADAM HAD CHEMICAL WEAPONS,
AND THE INVASION TO IRAQ WAS TO STOP HIM PRODUCING THEM? as media said
or something else?

3. If Assant had chemical weapons, and as the officers say the missile target the factories,
Do you think is wise to bomb a chemical weapon tank?



and back to garniture,
cause it is very spicy and hot,
at 1821 my country took a loan from British empire,
That loan last until 1980's and payed more than x60 times the primary,
THAT LOAN ALMOST COST THE FAILURE OF GREEK REVOLT
THE FAILURE OF ATHENS SIEGE, AND THE DEATH OF KARAISKAKIS GENERAL COMMANDER OF ROUMELI.
IF my country took 600 millions dollars,
how many reached in Greece, HOW much was the true help?
and how much went to corruption?
FOR 600 MILLION DOLLARS I WOULD BE ETERNAL PRESIDENT OF GREECE 60 years, yes indeed,
Except if that is the amount of how much cost corruption,
in such case, seems our politicians are very smart, AND VERY EXPENSIVE,
at 1950's 1 dollar was about 1,4 Drachmas, and bread if existed, cost 0,0 !!!! 1$ = 4 drachmas at middle of 60's
Since at that time the basic money of a public assistance worker was about 1,80-2 drachmas = about 1-2 dollar per month and at late 1950's was 3,60 per month.
reaching about mixed 120 000 drachmas and in hand about 95 000 at 1990's and Dolllar = 400-450 drachmas,
WOW Too much money to buy corrupted Greek politicians!!!!!!!
you could have buy both Athens and Thessaloniki that time with such money!!!!


By Kazantzakis.
ΛΟΓΑΤΑΙ ΣΩΣΤΑ
ΟΠOΙΟΣ ΛΟΓΑΤΑΙ ΛΕΥΤΕΡΑ.
(Correct thinking and counting, makes the one who thinks and counts FREE)

Today I am not FREE, SO I CAN THINK CORRECT,
I AM NOT FREE, CAUSE I AM EXTRA TAXATED, AND MUST PAY EVEN FOR THE AIR I BREATHE.
THE EFFECT OF MODERN CRISIS, IS THAT I CAN NOT THINK FREE.
BUT I TOOK NOTHING, SO I DO NOT OWN SOMETHING,
AND AS A PARSON I AM FREE.

BACK TO FREE WORLD,
AWAY FROM MODERN CAPITALISM AND COMMUNISM.
THEY BOTH SUCK AND SMELL BADLY.

I DO NOT WANT A PRISON FOR MY HEART,
MY HEART BELONGS TO ME,
I WANT TO VIEW THINGS AS A FREE MAN.
NOT AS SOMEONE WHO IS AFRAID, OR OWNS,

to end
600 000 000 US DOLLARS IS TOO MUCH MONEY At 1950's
TO CORRUPT GREEK POLITIANS,
EVEN TODAY, CONSIDER AT 1950's
GREEKS CHEATED YOU.
Sorry but it sounds as an anecdotal, as joke.
could the Cola factory, build that time, cost so many ???

PS
if we both know about Army and military,
then in the first minute we would realise
THE BOMBING WAS A TEST AND A MESSAGE.
A test, cause they wanted to see how effective is Russian defense, and Syrria
cause by the 'road' of the missile ballistic, passed above Russian bases,
what guns the defender has.
A message, but I can not explain what mean, I am not a diplomat, neither a psycologist, to analyze it.

cause simply if Assant had lets say 2 tones of Sharin gas and at leat 1 tomahawk bomb them
you would have myriads of deaths (myriad = 10 000) and not just breathing problems

MY APOLOGIES, AND MY RESULT,
I do not blaim USA or France or Britain for bombing Assant,
as I do not blaim Putin for helping him,
BUT IS A VERY CHEAP EXCUSSION, AS THE ONE IN SADAM,
FOR SOMEONE WHO USES DEPLETED URANIUM IN HIS WEAPONS.


I HOPE NOT TO BE MISSUNDERSTOOD,
I AM CLEAR ENOUGH I THINK.

Yetos
21-04-18, 07:12
Of course, but in the end, who pays the bill for all these things?

the Marshall plan :laughing:

Yetos
21-04-18, 07:17
- United We Stand -
United States of America
“one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all”




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr8ljRgcJNM

I also wear American Nike made in Vietnam
I drink American cola made in Bulgaria,
imported American chicken from who knows,
and American burgers from Brasilian cattles
AND I POSSES a korean CAT s-60 mobile phone
BUT MY FRIEND HAS AN AMERICAN iphone8 made in china

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

PS
does an American has all this?
cause I think I live better in America, though I am not, :grin:

Oh, and I smoke Camel, (american - domestic tobaco) once given to US troops
but today are Japanese tobaco inc

Salento
21-04-18, 07:31
5 ways Americans and Europeans are different

Americans and Europeans often have different perspectives on individualism, the role of government, free expression, religion and morality.

1 Americans are more likely to believe they control their own destiny.
2 Americans tend to prioritize individual liberty, while Europeans tend to value the role of the state to ensure no one in society is in need.
3 There is greater tolerance in the U.S. than in Europe for offensive speech
4. Religion is significantly less important to Europeans than to Americans.
5. Americans and Europeans don’t always agree on questions about morality,

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/04/19/5-ways-americans-and-europeans-are-different/

Even Jesus paid his taxes:
“Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's”

Yetos
21-04-18, 07:39
5 ways Americans and Europeans are different

Americans and Europeans often have different perspectives on individualism, the role of government, free expression, religion and morality.

1 Americans are more likely to believe they control their own destiny.
2 Americans tend to prioritize individual liberty, while Europeans tend to value the role of the state to ensure no one in society is in need.
3 There is greater tolerance in the U.S. than in Europe for offensive speech
4. Religion is significantly less important to Europeans than to Americans.
5. Americans and Europeans don’t always agree on questions about morality,

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/04/19/5-ways-americans-and-europeans-are-different/

Even Jesus paid his taxes:
“Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's”

Yes but Jesus went to desert for tenths of days to be free from media,
and think clear, He beat the devil,
Do we ?

Americas last war was the civil war at 19th century,
in Europe we had 2 World Wars in a generation time, before 2 generations
and the previous generation grew up in the cold war era.

when an American boy grew listening Elvis and dancing RnR
Europeans were growing with fear of war.

I think we do not need to expand to that,

LABERIA
21-04-18, 11:05
the Marshall plan :laughing:
Marshall plan was very important in rebuilding West Europe and Greece, of course. But you have to be also respectful even towards Europeans:

In government Edit
At the October 1981 national elections the PASOK won a landslide victory with 48% of the vote and capturing 173 seats; it formed the first socialist government in the history of Greece since 1924. Although Papandreou had campaigned for withdrawal of Greece from NATO and the European Economic Community, after a strong request by the rest of the party members and its supporters, changed his policy towards both institutions. He proved to be an excellent negotiator when it came to securing benefits and subsidies for Greece from the EEC. For example, in 1985 he openly threatened Jacques Delors to veto the entry of Spain and Portugal in the Community in order to secure more monetary aid for Greece.[8]
And this is the third element if we want to explain the Greek economic miracle, must be said that you are very good in negotiating.

Yetos
21-04-18, 17:35
Marshall plan was very important in rebuilding West Europe and Greece, of course. But you have to be also respectful even towards Europeans:And this is the third element if we want to explain the Greek economic miracle, must be said that you are very good in negotiating.I do not know where you found that quote,But because I know better the story and origin of papandreou family,I ask you to search who was his founder, before 1981,plz do it,

Ailchu
22-04-18, 16:33
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/international-inspectors-enter-douma-site-of-alleged-syrian-chemical-attack/2018/04/21/8877cab8-4575-11e8-baaf-8b3c5a3da888_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5d380dc56e98

"Experts have warned that the OPCW inspectors face an uphill challenge. Chlorine is a gas at room temperature and therefore unlikely to remain at the scene, experts say, while traces of nerve agent are likely to fade fast."

here it says something different about nerve agents:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/despite-delay-experts-say-any-evidence-suspected-syria-chemical-attack-n868131
"
But if nerve agents were used, those substances "can stay for a long time," said Dr. Homer Venters, director of programs for Physicians for Human Rights.
He said the organization went into Halabja, Iraq, in 1992, years after a suspected chemical weapons attack in 1988, and samples they collected still showed evidence of a gas attack on Kurdish villages."

Ailchu
22-04-18, 17:59
i just stumbled over the organization called "white helmets". LeBrok, Angela and Laberia read my post please and tell me later how much you trust them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Helmets_(Syrian_Civil_War)

they are a private syrian civil defense organization that only operates in regions controled by the Tahrir al-Sham, aka al-Qaeda in syria, who is a jihadist militang group. the white helmets are based in UK. they are supported by the UK with money and equipment. but also by canada, denmark, germany, the netherlands, japan and new zealand.


from mdr (mitteldeutscher rundfunk) so again definitly not pro-russian
https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/politik/ausland/weisshelme-syrien-zivilschutz-hintergrund-umstrittene-helfer-100.html
"Doch auch westliche Nahost-Experten zweifeln an der Rolle der Weißhelme. Der Leiter des Zentrums für Forschung zur Arabischen Welt (ZEFAW) an der Universität Mainz, Günter Meyer, sagte im ARD-Interview, das Hauptziel der Weißhelme sei, solche Dinge zu inszenieren und propagandistisch gegen das Assad-Regime einzusetzen."
i'll try to translate:
"even western experts on the near east doubt the role of the white helmets. the leader of the centre for science on the arabic world(ZEFAW) at the university of Mainz, Günter Meyer, said in a ARD-Interview, that the main goal of the white Helmets is, to stage such things and to use them as propaganda against the Assad-Regime"

the swedish human rights group accuses the white helmets to not care for all civilians in the same extent.
the kurds banned them from their territory as soon as they conquered it from islamists.
when the kurds were pushed back by turkey the white helmets returned.
http://theregion.org/article/13161-fractures-within-the-syrian-opposition-on-afrin-the-white-helmets-and-the-syrian-observatory-for-human-rights
"After two and a half years of prohibition, the #SyrianCivilDefense returned to work in the Syrian city of Afrin to serve all Syrians." they tweeted, "The #PYD and #YPJ closed the centre and arrested the volunteers who were working there" they claimed. The tweet received criticism from some, as critics alleged that the white helmets were acting as humanitarian auxiliary support for the occupation. Others, however, praised the White Helmets."

"In fact over the course of Operation Olive Branch, where even the most conservative estimates placed the civilian death toll in the hundreds, the White Helmets did not make any statements of condemnation against killings perpetrated by the Turkish Armed Forces and their FSA partners."

the "FSA partners" are all the islamist groups mentioned in previous posts.

"On January 24th, 2018 -- the Alliance of Middle Eastern Socialists -- made up of many Syrian leftists -- released a statement entitled "Solidarity with Afrin, al-Ghouta, Idlib against all military attacks", in which they made the accusation that The Syrian National Coalition of Syrian Revolution and Opposition Forces "not only supported the Turkish military intervention and contiuned their previous chauvinist policies against the Kurds in Syria, but are also participating in this operation by calling on Syrian refugees in Turkey to join the Syrian armed opposition groups fighting in Afrin.""

"The Syrian analyst Hasan Sivri described the white helmets as the new Free Syrian Army because of the media impact that their actions have on the community of Western countries and according to him this serves as a curtain to the various armed jihadist groups that use the image of the white helmets to gain international support. One of its examples is during the fall of the Governorate of Idlib in the hands of opponents, the faction of the white helmets of the place raised black flags next to the militias of the Al Nusra Front."

i think there is a clip about this in this video (2:34) among many other suspicous facts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQUoGSzVbVU

the director Raed Saleh is an islamist radical according to some analysts.

the white helmets are one of the primary sources when it comes to the latest chemical attack in douma. according to the direcotor of the organization Raed Saleh the organization already burried certain victims of the attack and gave the coordinates of the graves to the OPCW.

now i'm asking you directly LeBrok, Angela and Laberia. how much do you believe such an organization and how much do you believe the UK, the US and other governments who are funding this organization with millions of dollars and even defend it when people critisize it. no, they even nominate the white helmets for piece awards. isn't this placing just a little spark of doubt in you?

LeBrok
22-04-18, 20:41
i just stumbled over the organization called "white helmets". LeBrok, Angela and Laberia read my post please and tell me later how much you trust them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Helmets_(Syrian_Civil_War)

they are a private syrian civil defense organization that only operates in regions controled by the Tahrir al-Sham, aka al-Qaeda in syria, who is a jihadist militang group. the white helmets are based in UK. they are supported by the UK with money and equipment. but also by canada, denmark, germany, the netherlands, japan and new zealand.


from mdr (mitteldeutscher rundfunk) so again definitly not pro-russian
https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/politik/ausland/weisshelme-syrien-zivilschutz-hintergrund-umstrittene-helfer-100.html
"Doch auch westliche Nahost-Experten zweifeln an der Rolle der Weißhelme. Der Leiter des Zentrums für Forschung zur Arabischen Welt (ZEFAW) an der Universität Mainz, Günter Meyer, sagte im ARD-Interview, das Hauptziel der Weißhelme sei, solche Dinge zu inszenieren und propagandistisch gegen das Assad-Regime einzusetzen."
i'll try to translate:
"even western experts on the near east doubt the role of the white helmets. the leader of the centre for science on the arabic world(ZEFAW) at the university of Mainz, Günter Meyer, said in a ARD-Interview, that the main goal of the white Helmets is, to stage such things and to use them as propaganda against the Assad-Regime"

the swedish human rights group accuses the white helmets to not care for all civilians in the same extent.
the kurds banned them from their territory as soon as they conquered it from islamists.
when the kurds were pushed back by turkey the white helmets returned.
http://theregion.org/article/13161-fractures-within-the-syrian-opposition-on-afrin-the-white-helmets-and-the-syrian-observatory-for-human-rights
"After two and a half years of prohibition, the #SyrianCivilDefense returned to work in the Syrian city of Afrin to serve all Syrians." they tweeted, "The #PYD and #YPJ closed the centre and arrested the volunteers who were working there" they claimed. The tweet received criticism from some, as critics alleged that the white helmets were acting as humanitarian auxiliary support for the occupation. Others, however, praised the White Helmets."

"In fact over the course of Operation Olive Branch, where even the most conservative estimates placed the civilian death toll in the hundreds, the White Helmets did not make any statements of condemnation against killings perpetrated by the Turkish Armed Forces and their FSA partners."

the "FSA partners" are all the islamist groups mentioned in previous posts.

"On January 24th, 2018 -- the Alliance of Middle Eastern Socialists -- made up of many Syrian leftists -- released a statement entitled "Solidarity with Afrin, al-Ghouta, Idlib against all military attacks", in which they made the accusation that The Syrian National Coalition of Syrian Revolution and Opposition Forces "not only supported the Turkish military intervention and contiuned their previous chauvinist policies against the Kurds in Syria, but are also participating in this operation by calling on Syrian refugees in Turkey to join the Syrian armed opposition groups fighting in Afrin.""

"The Syrian analyst Hasan Sivri described the white helmets as the new Free Syrian Army because of the media impact that their actions have on the community of Western countries and according to him this serves as a curtain to the various armed jihadist groups that use the image of the white helmets to gain international support. One of its examples is during the fall of the Governorate of Idlib in the hands of opponents, the faction of the white helmets of the place raised black flags next to the militias of the Al Nusra Front."

i think there is a clip about this in this video (2:34) among many other suspicous facts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQUoGSzVbVU

the director Raed Saleh is an islamist radical according to some analysts.

the white helmets are one of the primary sources when it comes to the latest chemical attack in douma. according to the direcotor of the organization Raed Saleh the organization already burried certain victims of the attack and gave the coordinates of the graves to the OPCW.

now i'm asking you directly LeBrok, Angela and Laberia. how much do you believe such an organization and how much do you believe the UK, the US and other governments who are funding this organization with millions of dollars and even defend it when people critisize it. no, they even nominate the white helmets for piece awards. isn't this placing just a little spark of doubt in you?

What baffles me the most is your disproportionately big preoccupation with bombing of Syria by US, and lack of participation in any other thread? What interest you have in it?
Seems that you are here not for genetic or historical knowledge but to explain to us how bad the US is and good Syria and Russia.

Ailchu
23-04-18, 22:24
you are clutching on straw arguments now. what interessts i have in? i want all americans to fully accept the superiority of the glorious russian empire, that they surrender and accept putin as their rightful leader who will make america great again.
do you think schweizer rundfunk or mitteldeutscher rundfunk are pro-russia? they are definitly not. so what are their "interessts" when they say something critical about the actions of the west, their own governments, in syria? maybe they smell something fishy and think something is wrong?
now tell me do you trust the white helmets, and do you trust the people who support and protect them until now? wouldn't it be kind of scandalous if western countries support an organization based in the UK that has close ties to islamists?
well guess what? that is what happened in the last few years.

LeBrok
23-04-18, 23:56
you are clutching on straw arguments now. what interessts i have in? i want all americans to fully accept the superiority of the glorious russian empire, that they surrender and accept putin as their rightful leader who will make america great again.
do you think schweizer rundfunk or mitteldeutscher rundfunk are pro-russia? they are definitly not. so what are their "interessts" when they say something critical about the actions of the west, their own governments, in syria? maybe they smell something fishy and think something is wrong?
now tell me do you trust the white helmets, and do you trust the people who support and protect them until now? wouldn't it be kind of scandalous if western countries support an organization based in the UK that has close ties to islamists?
well guess what? that is what happened in the last few years.
I completely don't trust you, your information and conclusions.

Ailchu
24-04-18, 19:00
I completely don't trust you, your information and conclusions.
so you do not trust srf that made an interview with expert michael lüders expert for islam? https://www.srf.ch/sendungen/tagesgespraech/eine-diplomatische-loesung-fuer-syrien
you also do not trust the leader of the centre for science on the arabic world(ZEFAW) at the university of Mainz, Günter Meyer?
you also do not trust this german tv report about aleppo where a child is saying that the jihadist made them stay to use them as protection? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB4gf3U7Bag
you also do not trust reuters with many reports of what the jihadists are doing in syria, like putting people, mostly from minorities, into cages to use them as shields?
you also do not trust the OPCW with many reports on how the opposition used chemical weapons? even sarin.
and also not the kurds who are or were on americas side and who banned the white helmets from their territory?
those are all not pro russia. i would even say that reuters and the OPCW are actually pro west.

but instead you trust turkey and saudi arabia who support the opposition?

well i can't say more. whom you trust or not is probably set from the beginning.

Ailchu
30-04-18, 20:05
ok ill just continue to post things that i think could be relevant.
https://special-ops.org/news/world/golan-heights-massacre-austrian-un-soldiers-let-syrian-police-walk-deadly-ambush/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsRx2CRrk_s

golan massacre. in 2012 UN soldiers form austria didn't warn syrian secret police about an ambush by "smugglers" and let them pass. when the syrians waved to them they commented it with "wave as long as you still can". they then watched how they were shot. according to the austrians their order was to not interfere which is probably what blue helmets should do.
the UN knew about what happened. however the case only came to light because a whistleblower released a video where everything is recorded.
should the austrians have interfered there or would this hurt their neutrality?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-bases/syrian-army-says-enemy-rockets-hit-military-bases-idUSKBN1I00WR
seems like syria is becoming the battlefield for iran and israel.

exceededminimumso..
30-04-18, 20:52
Has anyone noticed that EU didn't participate in bombing?

Ailchu
30-04-18, 21:01
Has anyone noticed that EU didn't participate in bombing?
true. i probably should not have written EU but EU-countries. though the EU "understands" the need for the bombing and never said anything against it. it was also never a question that the attack could have come from the opposition.
“We strongly condemn the continued and repeated use of chemical weapons by the regime in Syria, including the latest attack on Douma, which is a grave breach of international law and an affront to human decency."

Rizla
13-05-18, 16:46
I agree with you, Ailchu. The only people to gain from that particular gas attack on civilian syrians, were the loosing islamist rebels - who were known to have their own stockpile of nervegas. Why would Assad gas his own civilians when he's currently winning? It makes no sense. The west has been fooled on this one, if you ask me.

I'm sure Assad has previously used gas on his people though, when he was loosing.

Ailchu
22-05-18, 00:43
I agree with you, Ailchu. The only people to gain from that particular gas attack on civilian syrians, were the loosing islamist rebels - who were known to have their own stockpile of nervegas. Why would Assad gas his own civilians when he's currently winning? It makes no sense. The west has been fooled on this one, if you ask me.

I'm sure Assad has previously used gas on his people though, when he was loosing.

the west has not been fooled. that's the thing. the west always backed the opposition which since the beginning of this war consisted mostly of islamists. and we knew that from the start. the whole picture of the evil assad we have here is not really the truth. i don't know how bad he was. he certainly isn't an angel either. but to me it seems like he has always been the better option in this war. if you look for the opinions of syrian people, especially from minorities, who were living in regions controled by assad or who fled from rebel regions you would have a completely different picture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S_zmlDuGKU

the west should not fight assad but actually try to find a solution with him because without him syria will not find peace. or maybe it will but it will be the kind of peace you have in an islamic state.

maybe assad would have to stand in front of a court just like all other parties in this war. but how can you do that when he still is backed by his people.

Ailchu
29-05-18, 19:01
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/assad-syria-emily-thornberry-support-underestimated-jeremy-corbyn-russia-a8355241.html

"Support for Syria (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/Syria)’s president, Bashar al-Assad (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/BasharAl-assad), has been “underestimated”, Emily Thornberry (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/emily-thornberry) has claimed.

The shadow foreign secretary said Mr Assad, who has presided over a civil war which has killed more than 450,000 people and displaced 11 million, may not be “as overwhelmingly unpopular as the rebels told the West"."

and this comes from a newspaper that is owned 30% by a saudi arabian shah. saudi arabia, that supports the opposition with money and weapons.

and she still uses the term "rebels" because she doesn't want to say islamists.
can you guys belive this? according to her the west listened to the islamic opposition when it made its opinion about assad but did not even consider looking at the people who still support him?

Ailchu
06-06-18, 14:42
this is kind of funny and still has a little bit of truth in it. just a little bit. some countries should have been swapped for certain arabian countries though.
i do not promote violence against children, women or innocent countries.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNxkMHChBN0