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Angela
24-04-18, 15:32
Right wing French anti-immigration groups clash with migrants and groups supporting migrants in the Alpine passes between Italy and France.

See:
https://www.thelocal.it/20180423/france-to-send-more-police-to-italy-border-after-clashes-with-protesters

You could file this under unintended consequences of imperialism, as well as other things, such as where there's a will there's a way.

"Late Saturday and early Sunday, activists from a small French far-right group blocked a key mountain pass some six kilometres from the Italian border which they say is a "strategic point for illegal migrants", prompting a furious reaction from pro-migrant activists."

"On Sunday afternoon, a procession of French and Italian pro-migrant groups crossed the border at the Montgenevre Pass, alongside some 30 migrants, and had some minor scuffles with law enforcement officials on the way, a police source said.
The interior ministry said "violence was committed against security forces and a gendarme vehicle was damaged".

Thousands of young men from francophone west Africa have trudged across the mountains over the past two years, dreaming of jobs in France.

In recent months, as news about the route -- one of the lesser known on Europe's migrant trail -- filtered back to Africa, the arrivals have gained pace."

Since it seems to be every country in the EU for itself now, I'm sure Italy didn't do much if anything to stop them.

bicicleur
24-04-18, 17:12
most of those migrants end up near Calais trying to get to England, where it is easier to live in illegality
but the UK has an agreement with and pays France to prevent them from crossing the Channel

if you don't stop them, their numbers would multiply exponentialy
Italy, with EU aid is trying to prevent them from crossing the Mediterranean now
since they can't cross the Alps any more, it's in their own interest now

truckdrivers near Calais are not safe any more

this has little to do with imperialism, it is bankruptcy of and corruption in some African states
and if it were not for France, we could have had a Boko Haram caliphate in the Mali area, similar to ISIS
check what happened in Tombouctou

but this is not the reason these Africans try to get into the UK
it are economical migrants who are promised heaven by human traffickers

Ailchu
24-04-18, 19:10
Italy, with EU aid is trying to prevent them from crossing the Mediterranean now
since they can't cross the Alps any more,

right, instead they come up with ideas like bringing them here through the air so they do not have to rely on human traffickers. imo it would be better if eu countries actually were able to do their own thing when it comes to immigration. noone should tell anyone how many he has to take up.
and noone should judge italy when they try to stop migrants from crossing the sea. and if people do not want to stay in italy they should be allowed to go where they want. these countries should then send them back if they do not want them and not hide behind the countries on the border.

Angela
25-04-18, 00:32
I totally understand people wanting to migrate for economic reasons. That's certainly why my parents did it.

What, however, is wrong with this picture?
"Behind bloody Gaza clashes, economic misery and piles of debt https://wapo.st/2qTj6LL (https://t.co/qrmpQbDTEx)https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DbiBv2WUwAAehuc.jpg




[LEFT]

LeBrok
25-04-18, 02:50
right, instead they come up with ideas like bringing them here through the air so they do not have to rely on human traffickers. imo it would be better if eu countries actually were able to do their own thing when it comes to immigration. noone should tell anyone how many he has to take up. Of course. Destroy EU, this is what Putin wants. You are so transparent like KGB/FSB agent.

bicicleur
25-04-18, 09:22
I totally understand people wanting to migrate for economic reasons. That's certainly why my parents did it.

What, however, is wrong with this picture?
"Behind bloody Gaza clashes, economic misery and piles of debt https://wapo.st/2qTj6LL (https://t.co/qrmpQbDTEx)https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DbiBv2WUwAAehuc.jpg




[LEFT]


yes, I understand
but these people have unrealistic expectations, fed by human trafickers
local development in Africa is what is needed
and Europe is trying to help in that process, but the main responsables are the local authorities

the story of your parents is different
they had a visa before entering the US
they had the proper skills and attitudes

most Africans coming to Europe are young males
they have no idea about Europe, only the stories told by those who organise their trips
they are illegals
if Europe were to confirm their irrealistic expectations, half of Africa would cross the Mediterranean

bicicleur
25-04-18, 09:30
for those Palestinians the situation is even worse
they are occupied by a country that prevents their development, they are prisonners
and there are those Jewish settlers on the west bank that are participating in a legalised land theft system because this is 'their promised land' and they are 'the chosen people', a fascist doctrine, I'd say

what would be the reaction if Europe would start shooting rubber bullets at African migrants trying to cross the Mediterranean?

Angela
25-04-18, 14:49
yes, I understand
but these people have unrealistic expectations, fed by human trafickers
local development in Africa is what is needed
and Europe is trying to help in that process, but the main responsables are the local authorities

the story of your parents is different
they had a visa before entering the US
they had the proper skills and attitudes

most Africans coming to Europe are young males
they have no idea about Europe, only the stories told by those who organise their trips
they are illegals
if Europe were to confirm their irrealistic expectations, half of Africa would cross the Mediterranean

I agree with all of that.

I had a different point. Why does an unemployed man have six children? My parents only had one for years, and two was their limit. Partly, that was because they couldn't afford more.

To some degree some people participate in their own poverty and victimization. Nothing will change in some parts of the world until attitudes change.

As for shooting rubber bullets at them, there would be horror and condemnation, and I would join in it. Agreements have to be reached with the appropriate countries and they have to be returned.

bicicleur
26-04-18, 16:41
It is not the profile of the refugee coming to Europe.
He has no family to feed.
80 % are single young males.

Angela
26-04-18, 19:24
It is not the profile of the refugee coming to Europe.
He has no family to feed.
80 % are single young males.

Perhaps, although they may be men who left their families at home. My father did that as well, although he wasn't young.

Anyway, part of the overall problem is the huge population increases in areas where there is no future for these young men.

Salento
27-04-18, 02:39
President Trump Order to Stop caravan of people trying to cross the USA Border.
( ps I’m not stating my opinion, it’s just his message)

10053

bicicleur
28-04-18, 00:13
Perhaps, although they may be men who left their families at home. My father did that as well, although he wasn't young.

Anyway, part of the overall problem is the huge population increases in areas where there is no future for these young men.

Let me tell you once more, Angela, they are not supporting a family.
Don't project your fathers situation to theirs.

Fein
19-08-18, 10:09
Migration route through the Alps

Walking on Hanibals traces :laughing: