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View Full Version : WHAT IF? Alternative proposal theory about IE homeland,



Yetos
11-05-18, 22:13
I am using a map I found in Internet,
which I consider it more correct than the ones which are considered as correct by dogma.

it is this

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6a/5d/f1/6a5df182923ad9b4954dc4a1b5085e2c.jpg


I am not claiming the map is correct, especially the term Dorian which must be ignored,
I do not consider it as correct, but as an indicator of IE moves.

But I do consider the yellow position as possibly correct or a nearby area.

SO lets see,

If the south Caucasian area is home of PIE,
that explains a lot
Not only the Anatolian branches,
but also the Mycenean, and the BMAC (Tocharian)

the problem of Latin and Thraco-Brygian if are straight from Anatolia or Yamnaa, it is more coblicated.

So lets see, if the map could give an alternative, but possible solution to the questions,
Plz to understand it, remove all the nationalistic and stupid 'racism' feelings,
there is a lot of 'racism' against Anatolia, as also against steppe, (I use term racism in ' ' for obvious reasons)

Now i do not know if it is Sulaveni or Layla teppe etc etc
but seems 2 things,

1rst Possibility , The Anatolian to Caucasus
1 Anatolian IE languages,
Anatolian IE languages appear to be at the borders of Semitic languages in today Turkey mainly nearby Syrria and lebanon, west of Summerians
the known expand of Semitic languages north of Zagros at late neolithic pushed back to South Caucasus and Iraq-Iran, they spread language there, and from there the known ways,

Personally i consider it an IF, a possible one, but still I do not find it trust-able.

2nd Possibilitty The Caucasus to Anatolia
I find it more possible and more correct genetically,
By that we have 2 early migrations and 1 bigger
it could explain the BMAC (tocharian) also

1 rst migration is the Anatolian one,
the first split gave the Anatolian languages,
direct south from the yellow point of the map,
possible not even 3% steppe,

2nd migration is the Greco-Aryan
that splits to Greco-Armenian and rest Aryan and Indo-iranic,
the PIE homeland evolutes and gives a second wave, that splits to East and West.
West gives the Greco-Armenian and East all Indo-iranic languages
Part of that Migration is the Myceneans which have significant less than 20% steppe

3rd migration the Steppe and Europe
THE BIG RED ARROW TURN
that is the known and attested creation of central asia IE creation and Yamnaa
the most of Europes IE population etc etc.
The big arrow that starts from yellow point moves East,
IEnise Steppe Urals and finds again caucasians and neolithic at Yamnaa and moves West to IEnise Europe (second IE wave in balkans).
so it moves around Caspian either from East or West,
GAINS AND ASSIMILATES R1b from Gedrosia,
Gains and Assimilates R1a from Steppe,
and brings them to Europe,
or sends them to the land of Tocharians,

4rth migration re-entrance
parts of the previous 3rd migrations renter
either from North caucasus, either from Bactria steppe to Anatolia and Iran

personally i do not think that a R1b not a R1a will be found in IE Anatolian and the steppe must be less than the 13% of Mycenenas,
Proving that both Gedrosia and Steppe were IEnised before move to Europe.


I do not know about about Hettit steppe admixture or R1b/R1a heritage %

about Tocharian and Hettit Question,
I still own a thread to my shelf and the fellow member Moesan

I wrote the above, so to somes, start to realize that the steppe theory is not as well documented, as some wanted it to be, and it is not wise to make it a Dogma.
neither by archaiology, neither by linguistic, and LATELY not even by genetics.

expecting your thoughts
positive or negative.

Notice
Iran might have a road back,
after IEnise Gedrosia, a population from the IEnised areas might return to core,
bringing new genetics

IE Hellas might be a mix of non Yamnaa low Steppe Myceneans
and a group of Yamnaans or another that had more Northern geneticks (Graikoi-Selloi)

ToBeOrNotToBe
11-05-18, 22:17
Could explain things like Swastikas in the IVC, but I really doubt this is correct archaeologically. Maykop makes so much sense.

I do wonder though, why the Kura-Araxes expansion, which seems non-Indo-European, produced many cultures where the Swastika was present. None of the Y DNA lines associated with its expansion seem particularly I-E, so perhaps their adoption of the Swastika is through the spread of ideas and not people. Though, R1b has been found there.

Here’s my theory (basically just Maciamo’s to be honest, but I’m adding the Swastika link):

I imagine R1b travelling from the NW Fertile Crescent (as per Marciano, probably his greatest prediction (let’s forget about Q1a from Hunnic admix. in "homesick" Goths though!)) towards Sumer, and then up to Leyla Tepe and Maykop, just before Yamnaya.

I believe these R1b guys acquired CHG admix. from the women of Zagrosian J2 (and other Kura-Araxes-like lines, amalgamed with the J2 of course) tribes, and J2 (again, with other Kura-Araxes lines) later filled the void left by the R1b tribe’s migration from Mesopotamia to and subsequently through the Caucasus (either that, or J2 forced R1b Northwards, in something like the Halaf-Ubaid transition, but I see this as less likely for no good reason that I know). The Kura-Araxes expansion, mapping pretty well to bull-worshipping civilisations, would themselves carry these Swastikas, but positively NOT as Indo-Europeans (though sharing some similarities in mythology, such as the world tree bearing the fruit of immortality, as in Adam and Eve; and the Flood Deluge tale, as two examples (the idea of a sky father seems a bit too non-specific, but it too is a similarity)). Also, consider this similarity, especially in the context of bull-worshipping in the Kura-Araxes culture:

https://www.reddit.com/r/etymology/comments/35sswb/the_mysterious_similarity_between_the/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/etymology/comments/35sswb/the_mysterious_similarity_between_the/)

With this bull worship connection, it’s worth remembering that cattle was probably domesticated by R1b tribes, which could also mean that bull-worshipping was actually spread to J2 (and others) by R1b.

An investigation into the similarity between Vinca and Cuneiform symbols in the context of R1b (swastikas found in both cultures) is worth the time. It also reminds me of the similarities between the spread of copper smelting technology and R1b-Z2103 (and later J2).

It could, however, be the J2 influencing the R1b, but in the case of the Swastika it seems unlikely.

I think this is a pretty sweet theory, but if anybody sees this is retarded then feel free to shout me down. Remember though, we have ancient mtDNA from the place-times I’ve mentioned, and many of them seem very R1 like.

ToBeOrNotToBe
11-05-18, 23:25
I can’t believe I spent that long editing my post...

Yetos
12-05-18, 00:35
I can’t believe I spent that long editing my post...


sometimes I do wonder how much time I spend too

Yetos
12-05-18, 00:36
What is missing from the map

IS a red arrow from yellow point down South-West
The anatolian branch

bicicleur
12-05-18, 08:16
the map are just a few arrows
it would be much clearer if you could date each split

raspberry
12-05-18, 09:29
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cLOANsm3nb4/V_meb5xfGII/AAAAAAAAE-U/TLcFYlZDwP0y01aWZTgsF3DhtGFyaE2MgCLcB/s712/Krause_IE_map.png