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Leandros
12-05-18, 05:51
Anyone has any ideas where this specific subclade originated?

Thanks

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Leandros
12-05-18, 07:22
I cant find anything about the I-S17250 online. Anyone has any info?

Y Haplogroup: I2(I-S17250)
mtDNA: U5b2a

Vlad82
12-05-18, 17:41
Hi Lendros!
It is nice to see you here.
The thread is very interesting and I will try to give you some (possible) answers
In my opinion, these two early Slavic cultures were important for spreading S17250 (very likely together with some branches of R-Z280):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague-Korchak_culture
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipotesti%E2%80%93Candesti_culture

Starting area for expansion probably was the zone of Korchak Culture: Upper and Middle Dniester, Prut, Upper Vistula, Zhitomir
From this area, S17250 migrated to all directions, east, west, south, and north. West and south mostly following Outer Carpathians
In ancient sources, these tribes were mentioned as Sclaveni
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sclaveni

A big mass of Slavs from Korchak area migrated to Moldova region and Wallachia, where they crossed the Danube somewhere near Vidin, it was in middle of the sixth century, after settlement in nowadays East Serbia and West Bulgaria they divided into three groups, the first group went south to Epirus and some of them reach Peloponesse, the second migrated to Dalmatia, while the third went to Trakia and towards sea of Marmara
There are some visual representations of migrations
http://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/zvwas/zvwas_040a.jpg
http://www.kroraina.com/vg/vg_map2.jpg
https://s9.postimg.cc/5th5wep3z/zaimov.jpg

Other large groups of Slavs from Korchak culture migrated toward Central and Southern Poland, Bohemia and Germany.
One part of them moved near today Slovakia-Hungary border to West Pannonia, Balaton lake, Alps and the Adriatic Sea.

What part of Greece does your paternal line come from?
Do you know your subclade under S17250?

kuzmosi
12-05-18, 19:21
Dear Leandros! This question also interests me. One of my 8 eight great-great grandfather was I2a-L621-S17250-A1328.
The other A1328 families I found:
Sergeyev, Tula, Russia
Melnikov, Baskiria, Russia
Prudky, Harkiv Ukraina
Rudy, Lipivci, Ukraina
Barbo, Talachin, Belarus
Viarenic-Stachowski, Stochava, Belarus
Dzuba, Botajica, Bosnia
Ciric, Maricka, Bosnia
Vranjesevic, Bosanski Petrovac, Bosnia
Wisniewski, Warszava, Poland
Starasinic, Krasinec, Slovenia
Tóth, Nyírbéltek, Hungary (My ancestors)

According to YFULL, the A1328 last common ancestor lived 1400 year before present, so it means about 610 AD.

Dear Vlad82! I would also like to thank you fro the detailed answer. Based in the above, I think, the S17250 decomposed into subgroups before the great slavic migration. It seems that the individual strains have broken apart, and did not move as a complete tribe to the Balkans, or to the Avar Khaganate, or Poland, or east, today Russia. The S17250 certainly lived in today's Western Ukraina, as Vlad82 wrote.

I'm interested in how the Korchak culture came about?

Leandros
12-05-18, 20:45
Hi Lendros!
It is nice to see you here.
The thread is very interesting and I will try to give you some (possible) answers
In my opinion, these two early Slavic cultures were important for spreading S17250 (very likely together with some branches of R-Z280):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague-Korchak_culture
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipotesti%E2%80%93Candesti_culture

Starting area for expansion probably was the zone of Korchak Culture: Upper and Middle Dniester, Prut, Upper Vistula, Zhitomir
From this area, S17250 migrated to all directions, east, west, south, and north. West and south mostly following Outer Carpathians
In ancient sources, these tribes were mentioned as Sclaveni
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sclaveni

A big mass of Slavs from Korchak area migrated to Moldova region and Wallachia, where they crossed the Danube somewhere near Vidin, it was in middle of the sixth century, after settlement in nowadays East Serbia and West Bulgaria they divided into three groups, the first group went south to Epirus and some of them reach Peloponesse, the second migrated to Dalmatia, while the third went to Trakia and towards sea of Marmara
There are some visual representations of migrations
http://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/zvwas/zvwas_040a.jpg
http://www.kroraina.com/vg/vg_map2.jpg
https://s9.postimg.cc/5th5wep3z/zaimov.jpg

Other large groups of Slavs from Korchak culture migrated toward Central and Southern Poland, Bohemia and Germany.
One part of them moved near today Slovakia-Hungary border to West Pannonia, Balaton lake, Alps and the Adriatic Sea.

What part of Greece does your paternal line come from?
Do you know your subclade under S17250?Hey dude, thanks for your time explaining me :)
Sounds very interesting!!

My paternal and maternal ancestors came from Greek Thrace, even from the Byzantium era.

My Living Dna results came with only this I2(I-S17250) so I dont know any more details :)

Y Haplogroup: I2(I-S17250)
mtDNA: U5b2a

Vlad82
12-05-18, 23:51
Hey dude, thanks for your time explaining me :)
Sounds very interesting!!

My paternal and maternal ancestors came from Greek Thrace, even from the Byzantium era.

My Living Dna results came with only this I2(I-S17250) so I dont know any more details :)

Y Haplogroup: I2(I-S17250)
mtDNA: U5b2a


Hey dude, thanks for your time explaining me :)
Sounds very interesting!!

My paternal and maternal ancestors came from Greek Thrace, even from the Byzantium era.

My Living Dna results came with only this I2(I-S17250) so I dont know any more details :)

Y Haplogroup: I2(I-S17250)
mtDNA: U5b2a

You are welcome!
There are already two Greeks from Thrace confirmed as S17250, one is from Topolovgrad S17250>>PH908>>A356/Z16983>>A493, and the second one is from Constantinople S17250>>PH908*
PH908 is the most common subclade in Balkan, and makeup about 50% of all S17250.

Vlad82
13-05-18, 00:09
Dear Leandros! This question also interests me. One of my 8 eight great-great grandfather was I2a-L621-S17250-A1328.
The other A1328 families I found:
Sergeyev, Tula, Russia
Melnikov, Baskiria, Russia
Prudky, Harkiv Ukraina
Rudy, Lipivci, Ukraina
Barbo, Talachin, Belarus
Viarenic-Stachowski, Stochava, Belarus
Dzuba, Botajica, Bosnia
Ciric, Maricka, Bosnia
Vranjesevic, Bosanski Petrovac, Bosnia
Wisniewski, Warszava, Poland
Starasinic, Krasinec, Slovenia
Tóth, Nyírbéltek, Hungary (My ancestors)

According to YFULL, the A1328 last common ancestor lived 1400 year before present, so it means about 610 AD.

Dear Vlad82! I would also like to thank you fro the detailed answer. Based in the above, I think, the S17250 decomposed into subgroups before the great slavic migration. It seems that the individual strains have broken apart, and did not move as a complete tribe to the Balkans, or to the Avar Khaganate, or Poland, or east, today Russia. The S17250 certainly lived in today's Western Ukraina, as Vlad82 wrote.

I'm interested in how the Korchak culture came about?

Thank you Kuzmosi!
I agree with you about decomposed into subgroups of S17250, there are many Slavic tribes who might be connected with Korchak culture, and probably they had a pretty different structure of subclades. Also on their migration routes, they mixed with Slavic and non-Slavic tribes from other archeological cultures.

I have two books about Early Slavs written by Russian archeologist Valentin Vasiljevic Sedov. Unfortunately, both editions are in Serbian and Russian. During next week I will translate some basic information about Prague Korchak Culture and explain why I think it is related with S17250.

I have made some maps of I-CTS10228 subclades (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BzQ7ajrn9vY6emRWZktzclRCb1E), it has not been updated for a while, some of them are not complete, and I have to check if some people who are grouped in public projects at ftdna really took the tests or administrators grouped them depending on STR matches.
I did not know for your ancestors/relatives who are confirmed as A1328.

kuzmosi
13-05-18, 12:05
Thank you Vlad82!

I look forward to all the information about this group. This includes 2 of my 8 great-great grandfathers. The other one is the Kiss family from Penészlek, Hungary. They are I2a-L621-Y4460-Y3106-Y3118.

Because I made the accurate definitions at YSEQ. They are the cheapest. About 150 euro is an exact definition based on SNP tests.

The Tóth results:

Order History


09/17/2017
Pending




09/17/2017
Pending
PayPal IPN Verified [Completed (Unverified; $88.00)]


09/17/2017
Processing
Your DNA (YSEQ ID 11777) is in storage.
Thank you for your order.
The coupon code was applied.


09/27/2017
Processing
First results (YSEQ ID 11777) have been posted:
https://www.yseq.net/alleles.php

Quick results summary:
I2a-M423 Panel processing
CTS10228 C+
S17250 A+
PH908 processing
Y5596 processing
Y4882 processing


10/05/2017
Processing
More results (YSEQ ID 11777) have been posted:
https://www.yseq.net/alleles.php

Quick results summary:
I2a-M423 Panel processing
CTS10228 C+
S17250 A+
PH908 C-
Y5596 A-
Y4882 A+
A1328 processing
A12505 processing


10/10/2017
Processing
More results (YSEQ ID 11777) have been posted:
https://www.yseq.net/alleles.php

Quick results summary:
I2a-M423 Panel processing
CTS10228 C+
S17250 A+
PH908 C-
Y5596 A-
Y4882 A+
A1328 G+
A12505 C-
A7318 processing


10/14/2017
Delivered
Your results (YSEQ ID 11777) have been posted:
https://www.yseq.net/alleles.php

The final haplogroup is I2a-A1328.
All known downstream branches have been confirmed negative.

Quick results summary:
I2a-M423 Panel processing
CTS10228 C+
S17250 A+
PH908 C-
Y5596 A-
Y4882 A+
A1328 G+
A12505 C-
A7318 A-

hrvat22
13-05-18, 16:08
Anyone has any ideas where this specific subclade originated?

Thanks

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All is said here, probably belong to the source of White Croats.

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/31539-Genetics-confirm-migration-of-White-Croats-to-Croatia

Your male ancestor and ancestor most of the Croats lived in White Croatia and with migration of the Slavs they (descendants) come to the Greece and that area.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Croats

kuzmosi
13-05-18, 19:43
Do we know I2a-A1328+, or I2a-Y3118+ samples from Croatia?

hrvat22
13-05-18, 20:42
Do we know I2a-A1328+, or I2a-Y3118+ samples from Croatia?

For now Croatian ancestor subclade is I-S17250.. https://yfull.com/tree/I-S17250/

I2a-A1328+ has the same common ancestor (I-S17250) as the most of Croats.

If it turns out that Croats do not have that subclade I2a-A1328 this may mean an earlier separation (part of the tribe, some leader etc..) in White Croatia and migration let's say to western Czech Republic or east Ukraine and from there a migration through Europe but not to Croatia. But still subclade (I-S17250) remains a common ancestor.

It is based on today's Y-tree for I-S17250, how will be in the future we'll see and I will respect that.


Croats do not have much I2a-Y4882 and the same subclade is typical for Ukraine, Poland, Slovaka but for now they still have same common ancestor (I-S17250) as Croats. My opinion is that subclade (Y4882) proves earlier migration from White Croatia ie. before 7th century to Ukraine, through Poland etc.. and that's why Croats have minimal (Y4882) because that mutation did not exist (White Croatia) or minimal in time of migration to Dalmatia. Later the local migration return (Y4882) peoples to southern Poland, Slovakia etc.

Y-full tree that's says for now, it is possible that everything will change in the future.

Vlad82
13-05-18, 21:51
Do we know I2a-A1328+, or I2a-Y3118+ samples from Croatia?

Yseq currently offers the most what we can get for 150€, Y37 + SNP panel or just Top orientation panel for those who do not want STR markers.
Did you do STR panels for your relatives?

FTdna has a large base and many projects where people can see their matches or get information about their HGs. Unfortunately, there are no common haplogroup projects where people can join regardless of a company where they took tests.

In Croatia there are two a confirmed Y4882+ results, one is a Serb, other is a Croat, both Catholics, they have not taken deeper tests.
One big group of Orthodox Serbian families from Croatia called "Rodići" is confirmed Y4882>>A1238
Other confirmed Y4882>>A1238+ results are two Serbian families from Bosnia, one family near Belgrade, one from North Montenegro.
There is one anonymous Y4882>>A1238+ on Serbian-Bulgarian border, and one in Central Bulgaria.

In Southeastern Europe there are only 3 I2a-Y3118* for now, located somewhat eastern, Moldova/Moldavia, Central Bulgaria, and Istanbul/Constantinople.

kuzmosi
14-05-18, 10:33
hrvat22!

So, most of the Croats are my 1400 years old relatives? I think the White Croats are really the link between us. These my ancestors (Tóth and Kiss) have a rusin (ruthenian) origin. They called himself rusin. My grandfather was the last one who can speak the old rusin language in the village Penészlek. (he died: 1995) The Rusin (Ruthenian) motherland was just where the white croats lived (west Ukraina and southeast Poland)

Vlad82!

Thank you for the great help. I'm curious about all the information from you. Only basic STR tests were performed, which was necessary to determin which SNP panel needed for the further research.

Tóth STR-s:



11777

CDY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=CDY)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:24005794..24006229)
24005874
24006149
34-38


11777
DYS19 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS19)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:9684245..9684599)
9684325
9684519
15


11777
DYS385 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS385)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:18639490..18640018)
18639570
18639938
14-15


11777
DYS388 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS388)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:12635451..12635766)
12635531
12635686
13


11777
DYS389I (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS389I)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:12500196..12500602)
12500276
12500522
14


11777
DYS389II (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS389II)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:12500196..12500602)
12500276
12500522
31


11777
DYS390 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS390)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:15162914..15163419)
15162994
15163339
24


11777
DYS391 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS391)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:11981972..11982418)
11982052
11982338
11


11777
DYS392 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS392)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:20471792..20472205)
20471872
20472125
11


11777
DYS393 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS393)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:3263007..3263285)
3263087
3263205
13


11777
DYS426 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS426)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:17022853..17023109)
17022933
17023029
11


11777
DYS437 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS437)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:12346157..12346508)
12346237
12346428
15


11777
DYS438 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS438)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:12825780..12826160)
12825860
12826080
10


11777
DYS439 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS439)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:12403284..12403695)
12403364
12403615
13


11777
DYS442 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS442)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:12649053..12649517)
12649133
12649437
11


11777
DYS447 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS447)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:13166701..13167071)
13166781
13166991
26


11777
DYS448 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS448)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:22218773..22219226)
22218853
22219146
20


11777
DYS449 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS449)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:8349787..8350301)
8349867
8350221
32


11777
DYS454 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS454)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:8355962..8356321)
8356042
8356241
11


11777
DYS455 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS455)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:7043338..7043677)
7043418
7043597
11


11777
DYS456 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS456)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:4402821..4403129)
4402901
4403049
15


11777
DYS458 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS458)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:7999718..8000000)
7999798
7999920
17


11777
DYS459 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS459)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:23932563..23932874)
23932643
23932794
8-10


11777
DYS460 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS460)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:18888832..18889160)
18888912
18889080
10


11777
DYS464 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS464)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:23094595..23095029)
23094675
23094949
12-14-15-15


11777
DYS570 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS570)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:6992994..6993409)
6993074
6993329
18


11777
DYS576 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS576)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:7185181..7185531)
7185261
7185451
19


11777
DYS607 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS607)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:16302346..16302698)
16302426
16302618
12


11777
DYS724 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS724)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:24005794..24006229)
24005874
24006149
34-38


11777
Y-GATA-H4 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=Y-GATA-H4)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:16631424..16631951)
16631504
16631871
11


11777
YCAII (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=YCAII)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:17510123..17510440)
17510203
17510360
21-21





Kiss STR-s:



13233

DYS19 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS19)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:9521854..9522208)
9521934
9522128
16


13233
DYS385 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS385)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:20801376..20801904)
20801456
20801824
14-15



13233
DYS388 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS388)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:14747382..14747697)
14747462
14747617
13


13233
DYS389I (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS389I)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:14611990..14612396)
14612070
14612316
13


13233

DYS389II (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS389II)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:14611990..14612396)
14612070
14612316
31


13233
DYS390 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS390)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:17274794..17275299)
17274874
17275219
24


13233
DYS391 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS391)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:14102678..14103124)
14102758
14103044
11


13233
DYS392 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS392)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:22633678..22634091)
22633758
22634011
11


13233
DYS393 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS393)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:3131048..3131326)
3131128
3131246
13


13233
DYS426 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS426)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:19134733..19134989)
19134813
19134909
11


13233

DYS437 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS437)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:14466884..14467235)
14466964
14467155
15


13233
DYS438 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS438)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:14937715..14938095)
14937795
14938015
10


13233
DYS439 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS439)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:14515079..14515490)
14515159

14515410
13


13233

DYS447 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=DYS447)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:15278612..15278982)
15278692
15278902
26


13233

Y-GATA-H4 (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=Y-GATA-H4)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:18743304..18743831)
18743384
18743751
11


13233

YCAII (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=YCAII)
ChrY (http://ybrowse.org/cgi-bin/gb2/gbrowse/chrY/?name=ChrY:19622003..19622320)
19622083

19622240
21-21

Leandros
14-05-18, 12:28
Why do you use the term "white" Croats. Its like referring to Nigerians as "black" Nigerians lol

Y Haplogroup: I2(I-S17250)
mtDNA: U5b2a

hrvat22
14-05-18, 12:52
hrvat22!

So, most of the Croats are my 1400 years old relatives? I think the White Croats are really the link between us. These my ancestors (Tóth and Kiss) have a rusin (ruthenian) origin. They called himself rusin. My grandfather was the last one who can speak the old rusin language in the village Penészlek. (he died: 1995) The Rusin (Ruthenian) motherland was just where the white croats lived (west Ukraina and southeast Poland)

Who knows what the future will tell, for now look branch I-S17250 as family geneetic tree. I-S17250 is one person in White Croatia and that person connects all descendants. From this man house starts expansion and migration.
Why this house would be conected with White Croats? Because some historical records in that area see White Croats. For that reason that subclade can not be original Bulgarian, Greek, Slovakian, Ukrainian, Polish, Belarusian. Rusian, Macedonian etc.. although I-S17250 descendants now live in these countries, they just by the male line originally had a White Croatian ancestor.

hrvat22
14-05-18, 13:03
Why do you use the term "white" Croats. Its like referring to Nigerians as "black" Nigerians lol

Y Haplogroup: I2(I-S17250)
mtDNA: U5b2a

Because White Croats are mentioned in historical records, and because we have to make genetic difference between later Dalmatian Croats. To Croatia come White Croats but from Croatia to another country they are coming as Croats.

They come to Greece from carpatian as Slavs, in them are and White Croats not Croats from Croatia.

balkanbro
04-06-18, 04:18
thanks for sharing this info.

petro__eh
11-06-19, 04:23
Newbie here. Did 23&Me and Ancestry.com so far.

39% (and most): I2a1b2a1 S17250 aka. Y=P204
With these subs that I still know very little about

I-Y4882
I-Z16971
I-Z16983

According to family history: the First known ancestor (supposedly) was Stanislaw Hosszúmezey (Dolhay) c 1330-1366 Vovoide of Beregh County, in the Kingdom of Hungary. Later family members got nobility type papers and served in various military, judicial, and administrative capacities in Northern Transylvania, Slovakia, Western Ukraine, and later Buda and Vienna.

I was born in Budapest, Hungary, but only 2 gen away from Transylvanian birthplaces of Paternal Grandparents.

Both the the Polish and the Croatian connection with I-Y4882 come as somewhat of a surprise and I'm trying to connect the dots with all of it. I guess it's entirely possible, given the constant movement and mixing in the region, and I'm sort of wondering if one of my foremothers "had stepped off the reservation sometime in the past"... and (Family) History is only about papers , legends, and some archaeology, but genetics you can't really argue with...

Ownstyler
11-06-19, 05:34
Newbie here. Did 23&Me and Ancestry.com so far.

39% (and most): I2a1b2a1 S17250 aka. Y=P204


You only have one Y-haplogroup.

What is your paternal haplogroup on 23andme?

Kelmendasi
11-06-19, 17:26
Why do you use the term "white" Croats. Its like referring to Nigerians as "black" Nigerians lol

Y Haplogroup: I2(I-S17250)
mtDNA: U5b2a
It doesn't refer to skin colour. White Croats was the name of the Slavic tribe which inhabited areas north of the Carpathians in eastern Europe, some of them are thought to have migrated to modern day Croatia.

Vlad82
12-06-19, 10:36
Newbie here. Did 23&Me and Ancestry.com so far.

39% (and most): I2a1b2a1 S17250 aka. Y=P204
With these subs that I still know very little about

I-Y4882
I-Z16971
I-Z16983

According to family history: the First known ancestor (supposedly) was Stanislaw Hosszúmezey (Dolhay) c 1330-1366 Vovoide of Beregh County, in the Kingdom of Hungary. Later family members got nobility type papers and served in various military, judicial, and administrative capacities in Northern Transylvania, Slovakia, Western Ukraine, and later Buda and Vienna.

I was born in Budapest, Hungary, but only 2 gen away from Transylvanian birthplaces of Paternal Grandparents.

Both the the Polish and the Croatian connection with I-Y4882 come as somewhat of a surprise and I'm trying to connect the dots with all of it. I guess it's entirely possible, given the constant movement and mixing in the region, and I'm sort of wondering if one of my foremothers "had stepped off the reservation sometime in the past"... and (Family) History is only about papers , legends, and some archaeology, but genetics you can't really argue with...



I think you do not have enough knowledge to understand results.
First off all you cannot be 39% S17250, you can be only positive or negative on S17250, in some rare cases there is "no call" for a SNP which means that test did not read the position.
The second thing is that you cannot in same time be positive on 3 parallel branches of S17250 (I-Y4882 I-Z16971 I-Z16983). Those branches have common ancestor that lived at least 1850 years ago. You can see it on the tree https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-S17250/
So if you are positive on one of three branches you named here, automatically you are negative on the rest two.
I know that all of it might be confusing for newbies.

Have you taken recently 23andme test?
Is your test V5 chip that test S17250?
Could you see what is your Y-haplogroup results at 23andme?
Is your known paternal line from Beregh county Hungarian or Slavic? Name Stanislaw is a slavic name.

catosicarius
16-06-19, 01:26
Why do you use the term "white" Croats. Its like referring to Nigerians as "black" Nigerians lol

Y Haplogroup: I2(I-S17250)
mtDNA: U5b2a

From what I recall reading, peoples of the steppes used colours to denote direction. White was west. The ancestors of Croats (at least the people we inherited the name Croats from) were a steppic people who migrated into Europe and resided over the Slavs as a ruling military caste. These Slavs eventually became White Croats (West Croats).

Wonomyro
16-06-19, 13:44
From what I recall reading, peoples of the steppes used colours to denote direction. White was west. The ancestors of Croats (at least the people we inherited the name Croats from) were a steppic people who migrated into Europe and resided over the Slavs as a ruling military caste. These Slavs eventually became White Croats (West Croats).

The Iranian (steppic) origin of Croats is just a speculation. First known Croatian dukes had Slavic names and their language was Slavic. The genetics and anthropology also indicate Slavic origin. Archeology doesn't see any traces of Iranian culture in Croatian medieval tombs.

However, Slavs also used colours (white as north). The example is the name of modern country of Belarus (= White Rus').