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Matera
15-05-18, 03:54
Hello,

I was looking into the E-PH1246 branch from E-V13, is there any in depth info about its possible geographic location or time in history.

Thank you.

Aspurg
16-06-18, 00:19
Hello,

I was looking into the E-PH1246 branch from E-V13, is there any in depth info about its possible geographic location or time in history.

Thank you.

Hi, you have been tested as BY14150-, BY15549-, possibly you belong in a group with Sensering Y37092* because this group shows dys389ii=18 like you have. They are positive to BY14160, so you might test that SNP if it is possible.

Closest to you seem one Swiss, Swann/Swain from England and a Russian (Kuznetsov), none of these are yet SNP confirmed but they look to be PH1246+ and distantly related to you. You share generally values of dys385=16-21, 17-21.., English don't have typical value for the rest of dys389ii=18, but standard PH1246 dys389=14-17 however this value in them seems recent. Swiss and English are closer to each other than they are to Russian or you.

There are 3 other Italians that I have predicted as PH1246 (and 2 are certain) but they belong to other clades. About origins, it can be varying. There is one South Italian likely PH1246 with dys390=23 and closest matches he has are in Greece, on Chios island, Euboiea, so he might be descended of Greek colonists. But PH1246 doesn't seem common in Greece except this variety (looking at studies of Greeks). If one is to go by Cetina culture hypothesis about the origin and spread of V13 then some of Italian might be connected to that.

Also there is one certain (though not yet SNP tested) Italian member of PH1246>Y30977>Y30976>Y84931 cluster alongside Pole, Tatar (no SNP but certain based on STR's) and an Armenian, and if one is to go by STR values he might not be that old in Italy, he certainly seems closer to Pole, Tatar than any of them are to an Armenian. This PH1246 clade seems to have some older foothold in the East of Europe, might have something to do with nomadic populations.

Because several clades under PH1246 are very old, often when a haplotype on only 37 STR's looks 2000 yrs away he turns out to be a different clade that is 4500+ yrs away.

Matera
17-06-18, 00:25
Hi Aspurg,

Thanks for the info on that, So the PH1246 branch is a one of the older sub clades of E-V13? I recently ordered the Big Y test from Ftdna.

Thanks.

Gheg
15-09-18, 07:58
Hi,

There seems to be an Arbereshe in the Albanian project belonging to the PH1246 cluster.

Aspurg
15-09-18, 13:19
Congrats on your result, as I suspected you are distantly related to Sensering being BY14160+, BY14167+, indeed dys389ii=18 seems to be some factor here as well as dys635=24. I think you are native to Italy for some time (antiquity) at least. This Italian that is maybe of Arberesh origin is 11/37 with you so not close but might be distantly related to you looking at some STR's, because he too has this value on dys385b. And these high values of 20,21 seem to be a trait of your cluster.
In Arberesh study there is no haplotype such as this among the Arberesh, there are 1 Gheg and 1 Tosk with somewhat similar haplotype to this Italian but I see they have dys635=22 and that might be a big problem because you and Sensering are both BY14167+, not that close and you share dys635=24 (generally PH1246 have dys635=23 instead of modal 22 for most E-V13), also they don't match at dys389ii like you do with Sensering.. The question is, is he a newcomer from the South or are you a newcomer from the North.:)

Looking at studies, I saw many PH1246 candidates in Croatia, on Croatian islands too, which seems to go well with Cetina culture hypothesis for V13.

Vasojevici BY14151+, BY14160- came to NE Montenegro from Herzegovina too, we know that because a 14th century Vlach tribe of Bobani turned out to be related to them. Additionally related to them but non tribal (preceding the founder Vaso) Vasojevici haplotype characterized by dys458=13 occurs in Croatia and Slovenia.

Matera
17-09-18, 02:57
Thats Interesting. Thanks for the info, So your saying you think someone from the balkans moved and settled in Italy mabye before antiquity?
They just updated my results to E-Y81468.

digital_noise
17-09-18, 20:06
Hey, Im also E-PH1246, but am waiting on Big Y results due in november. My Paternal line came from Cimina' RC Italy, and I have traced them back to roughly 1749 and I cannot get any further.

Matera
18-09-18, 01:28
That's awsome that you were able trace that far back, Let me know your results we might be part of the same branch. My Paternal line is from Matera,Basilicata,Italy its north east of Calabria, I was only able to trace back to roughly 1850.

digital_noise
18-09-18, 18:25
Have you looked at San Beniculturali website? I was able to find a lot of birth records there. Thankfully Cimina kept clean records for the most part and is a small town so it wasnt as difficult digging through the scans and finding things.

digital_noise
11-11-18, 19:57
Big Y results have me at E-BY14160

Junior
27-09-20, 18:23
My surname is Sensenig and I am of Swiss ancestry. My terminal SNP is E-by34237. Which is downstream from CTS8814, PH1246, BY14151, and BY14160.