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XipeTotek
22-05-18, 18:21
because in india have mostly high r1a. dont have I,G,J1,J2 and others?

and why dont have in europe j1,j2,g,e, hablogroups? they are not real indo-europeans?

are early indo-european cultures mostly high r1a and r1b?

Dibran
24-05-18, 18:43
R1a-Z93 is connected to Indo-Aryan migration patterns. They may have had other lineages as well. Early Indo-Europeans are shown to be predominantly R1b and R1a. However, J2b and V13 have also been found among elite Indo-European burials. I imagine lineages were as abundant then as today.

kmak
28-05-18, 20:01
I hear that some g2a3 type found in early indo-european.

kmak
28-05-18, 20:30
I think that mostly ancient dynasty had r1a.

aleph
15-02-19, 06:15
Well the OP is wrong about some assertions. J is a fairly common haplogroup all over India/south Asia and non-R1a lineages are known among "core" post-Aryans such as Scythians and Sarmatians (assuming that the term Aryan only refers to the Andronovo-Sintashta-Srubnaya region). As far as I know, however, *most* Aryan lineages were R1a, and more specifically the Z-93 subclade.

Ygorcs
15-02-19, 06:31
Well the OP is wrong about some assertions. J is a fairly common haplogroup all over India/south Asia and non-R1a lineages are known among "core" post-Aryans such as Scythians and Sarmatians (assuming that the term Aryan only refers to the Andronovo-Sintashta-Srubnaya region). As far as I know, however, *most* Aryan lineages were R1a, and more specifically the Z-93 subclade.

Inded. And of course both Europe and South Asian Indo-Aryans have many haplogroups beside their main local haplogroups. But it also must be said that it is not correct to evaluate if people are IE or not based on haplogroups. IE is a language and was certainly associated with a certain culture, but it is not determined by Y-DNA haplogroups, and added to that is the fact that Proto-IE themselves definitely carried many different haplogroups, though R1b and R1a prevailed in different regions, and Y-DNA haplogroups can and did boom in frequency in local populations due to founder effects, bottlenecks, random social selection or mere genetic drift. You might well have had a 1% percentage of a certain haplogroup in an IE population, and thousands of years later it might have increased to 80% frequency in one of its descendant groups.

laint
27-02-19, 20:19
Well the OP is wrong about some assertions. J is a fairly common haplogroup all over India/south Asia and non-R1a lineages are known among "core" post-Aryans such as Scythians and Sarmatians (assuming that the term Aryan only refers to the Andronovo-Sintashta-Srubnaya region). As far as I know, however, *most* Aryan lineages were R1a, and more specifically the Z-93 subclade.

Was J common in India during Aryan invasion?

I have yet to come to that conclusion, that J was fairly common among Scythians or Sarmatians. If you are referring to Kuro-Araxes culture who expanded into steppe, then no - they are not among those, that also took part in Aryan invasion in India, or who settled in Tarim region.

Anyway - I was under impression, that Indus valley had L, which was nearly wiped out during Aryan invasion and J in India is very recent influx that mainly comes from islamic expansion, or else we have another artificial construct of ancestry ;)

I mean come on - most of those J lines probably can be found among other Middle East people and they are not that old to have developed as bottlenecks, that differs from rest of J :D

laint
27-02-19, 20:35
Inded. And of course both Europe and South Asian Indo-Aryans have many haplogroups beside their main local haplogroups. But it also must be said that it is not correct to evaluate if people are IE or not based on haplogroups. IE is a language and was certainly associated with a certain culture, but it is not determined by Y-DNA haplogroups, and added to that is the fact that Proto-IE themselves definitely carried many different haplogroups, though R1b and R1a prevailed in different regions, and Y-DNA haplogroups can and did boom in frequency in local populations due to founder effects, bottlenecks, random social selection or mere genetic drift. You might well have had a 1% percentage of a certain haplogroup in an IE population, and thousands of years later it might have increased to 80% frequency in one of its descendant groups.

Why it is not correct? All of those haplogroups at some point developed as bottlenecks, which exactly mean that they also developed distinct culture of their own and language and this also comes along with physical adaptations and looks. What are you proposing is alternate history, because most of the mixing happened after those distinct people met - and in most cases those people initially were slaughtered or died out because of diseases or could not compete with newcomers because of economical pressure, or in case of India - were grouped into castes and their initial y-dna was weeded out because higher castes could rape them and would not allow to marry up. History is story about survival and not a fairy tale.

aleph
02-03-19, 18:22
Was J common in India during Aryan invasion?

I have yet to come to that conclusion, that J was fairly common among Scythians or Sarmatians. If you are referring to Kuro-Araxes culture who expanded into steppe, then no - they are not among those, that also took part in Aryan invasion in India, or who settled in Tarim region.

Anyway - I was under impression, that Indus valley had L, which was nearly wiped out during Aryan invasion and J in India is very recent influx that mainly comes from islamic expansion, or else we have another artificial construct of ancestry ;)

I mean come on - most of those J lines probably can be found among other Middle East people and they are not that old to have developed as bottlenecks, that differs from rest of J :D


No, what I am saying is that J is common in south Asia as of now because the OP claimed that India is mostly R1a and doesn't have other haplogroups (which is outright wrong, R1a is a minority in all but a few groups of people). The J likely comes from the IVC people. And by the other few non-R1a lineages, I am referring to some cases of G that have been found among Scythians and Sarmatians, but that is only tangentially related to the first point.

The reason for my assertion of J being an IVC haplogroup is because it was also found among Iran_N populations, along with BMAC as well, which is thought to have had similar paternal lines as IVC. Populations do not change that quickly or easily and I highly doubt that the Islamic invasions had any major impact on south Asia DNA (unlike the IVC and Aryan invasions).