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Angela
06-06-18, 22:29
Actually, a mostly black mother has given birth to a pretty pale bi-racial baby. More sensationalistic the other way, yes? :)

The geneticist says it's a million to one chance but it can happen.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n56inn2yZJc

In terms of features I think he looks just like his mother. He just has pale skin and European textured hair.

Ygorcs
07-06-18, 09:11
Honestly, that kind of thing happens all the time here in Brazil. It's not too frequent, but it's the kind of thing everybody has seen a few times along their lives. People talk about this way "oh, that's interesting, not what you'd expect at first!" and move on. Granted, what happens most of the time - and I'm quite sure that's also what could've happened in this "sensational" media case, too - is that the "black" parent isn't exactly 100% African and is actually, like most Brazilian dark-skinned people, mixed to a significant degree with European and/or Native American ancestry (average Brazilian blacks have ~30-40% of non-African DNA, a really high proportion if you compare them with average US blacks).

Angela
07-06-18, 14:08
Honestly, that kind of thing happens all the time here in Brazil. It's not too frequent, but it's the kind of thing everybody has seen a few times along their lives. People talk about this way "oh, that's interesting, not what you'd expect at first!" and move on. Granted, what happens most of the time - and I'm quite sure that's also what could've happened in this "sensational" media case, too - is that the "black" parent isn't exactly 100% African and is actually, like most Brazilian dark-skinned people, mixed to a significant degree with European and/or Native American ancestry (average Brazilian blacks have ~30-40% of non-African DNA, a really high proportion if you compare them with average US blacks).

Completely agree. It's probably largely because it's Britain, and despite the migration of recent years, they don't have the experience of large scale admixture. Even here in the U.S. we've seen or read of children of "mixed" ancestry who look predominately, even exclusively like one parent rather than the other.

There was a famous case about which a book was written where a seemingly "white" couple gave birth not to a black child, but to a very obviously "mixed" looking child. It was tragic for everyone. The father doubted it was his, and got a paternity test. When it turned out he was indeed the father, the mother was "blamed". She must have had part black "hidden" ancestry, largely because she and her family weren't extremely fair.

Well, it turned out that the "hidden" ancestry was on his father's side. The grandfather was more than a quarter black, but had hidden it all his life, and had gotten away with it because it absolutely didn't show at all. Well, all those genes showed up in the grandson: he was the one that looked quadroon. I posted about it here, to the usual caterwauling of protest that it was impossible.

We also know of a lot of cases of "passing", where one sibling could and did pass, and the other ones could not.

Ygorcs
08-06-18, 02:21
There was a famous case about which a book was written where a seemingly "white" couple gave birth not to a black child, but to a very obviously "mixed" looking child. It was tragic for everyone. The father doubted it was his, and got a paternity test. When it turned out he was indeed the father, the mother was "blamed". She must have had part black "hidden" ancestry, largely because she and her family weren't extremely fair.

Well, it turned out that the "hidden" ancestry was on his father's side. The grandfather was more than a quarter black, but had hidden it all his life, and had gotten away with it because it absolutely didn't show at all. Well, all those genes showed up in the grandson: he was the one that looked quadroon. I posted about it here, to the usual caterwauling of protest that it was impossible.

What a sad and shameful story, a real tragedy especially because all of this suffering was caused by a completely nonsense and insane obsession over interesting, but ultimately irrelevant physical differences.

Angela
08-06-18, 04:01
What a sad and shameful story, a real tragedy especially because all of this suffering was caused by a completely nonsense and insane obsession over interesting, but ultimately irrelevant physical differences.

The amount of suffering caused by human stupidity is immeasurable. Think of this poor child and what the effect will be on him when he's old enough to read all of this. I can't even bear to think about it.

ihype02
08-06-18, 08:45
Mariah Carey was bi-racial and yet she can pass as white:
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/cCf7RA2pI0XBIsCmVEVPPyCoNBM=/0x0:980x490/1200x800/filters:focal(615x129:771x285)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/53809495/mariah.0.jpg

Govan
08-06-18, 16:06
Carey is more than biracial. Her father is part mixed-kind of Cuban, part African American.
It's worth saying all NewWorld blacks have various amount of European ancestry since colonial times.

hrvclv
13-06-18, 20:12
Completely agree. It's probably largely because it's Britain, and despite the migration of recent years, they don't have the experience of large scale admixture. Even here in the U.S. we've seen or read of children of "mixed" ancestry who look predominately, even exclusively like one parent rather than the other.

There was a famous case about which a book was written where a seemingly "white" couple gave birth not to a black child, but to a very obviously "mixed" looking child. It was tragic for everyone. The father doubted it was his, and got a paternity test. When it turned out he was indeed the father, the mother was "blamed". She must have had part black "hidden" ancestry, largely because she and her family weren't extremely fair.

Well, it turned out that the "hidden" ancestry was on his father's side. The grandfather was more than a quarter black, but had hidden it all his life, and had gotten away with it because it absolutely didn't show at all. Well, all those genes showed up in the grandson: he was the one that looked quadroon. I posted about it here, to the usual caterwauling of protest that it was impossible.

We also know of a lot of cases of "passing", where one sibling could and did pass, and the other ones could not.

Cp. Kate Chopin's short story "Désirée's Baby".

Angela
13-06-18, 20:51
"Imitation of Life"-I think this 1959 version is better. The complete movie seems to be available on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85dCSZjIoD8

Even today, even having seen it a couple of times, I can't watch her denying her mother like this without crying. As for the ending of the movie, well, I need a whole box of tissues. How could she do it, no matter how much racism there was around her?

This is what these kind of ideas do to people, to their natural human feelings.

bicicleur
13-06-18, 21:15
"Imitation of Life"-I think this 1959 version is better. The complete movie seems to be available on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85dCSZjIoD8

Even today, even having seen it a couple of times, I can't watch her denying her mother like this without crying. As for the ending of the movie, well, I need a whole box of tissues. How could she do it, no matter how much racism there was around her?

This is what these kind of ideas do to people, to their natural human feelings.

and the irony is that though she's 'white' she may give birth to black sons or daughters

Ygorcs
14-06-18, 00:11
"Imitation of Life"-I think this 1959 version is better. The complete movie seems to be available on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85dCSZjIoD8

Even today, even having seen it a couple of times, I can't watch her denying her mother like this without crying. As for the ending of the movie, well, I need a whole box of tissues. How could she do it, no matter how much racism there was around her?

This is what these kind of ideas do to people, to their natural human feelings.

Oh my God, this movie scene broke my heart (I wonder now if I can bear the whole movie! lol). It's especially touching for me because my grandpa was virtually as black as that mother, and several of his grandsons and grand-daughters look virtually as white as the daughter in this movie. It's unbearable to imagine what that rigid, inflexible color-based segregation could've done to families like mine.

Angela
14-06-18, 05:19
Oh my God, this movie scene broke my heart (I wonder now if I can bear the whole movie! lol). It's especially touching for me because my grandpa was virtually as black as that mother, and several of his grandsons and grand-daughters look virtually as white as the daughter in this movie. It's unbearable to imagine what that rigid, inflexible color-based segregation could've done to families like mine.

This is one of the great "tear-jerker" movies of all time. I wasn't kidding when I said that at the end I go through a whole box of tissues. It's really worth watching, though: if nothing else, it would be worth watching just for the wonderful performances from everyone involved. This movie made a tremendous impression on me when I saw it on some "Old Movie Classics" Saturday show when I was a teen-ager. It helped form my attitude toward all matters of race, I think. That, and the fact that my blessed parents were almost completely free of it.

Well told stories can do that to you. Some others were "A Raisin in the Sun", "Lilies of the Field", "A Patch of Blue", and "In the Heat of the Night". They're all excellent, Sidney Poitier starring movies. He's not given enough credit for changing the perception of black men in America through the intelligence, pride, and dignity that permeates all those characters he played, which I think are actually an inseparable part of his own personality.