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Angela
11-09-18, 17:06
The Euro-how far would it go?

This would apply most to retired people or people otherwise living on investment income, because the real barometer for people within a country would be a correlation between this and salaries.

https://i.imgur.com/AZr0RwT.png


Relative income areas in U.S. Just as I thought. California is turning into a majority very poor state with a small wealthy elite. Their policies will only make the disparity greater over time

https://i.imgur.com/uUaHtns.png

Angela
12-09-18, 23:33
"Ethnicity" in Southern South America by area. I don't know enough about it to say for sure whether it's completely accurate.

https://i.imgur.com/PJyUqwS.png

Political orientation of academics at American universities. With all the indoctrination going on it's a miracle there are any conservative college graduates.

https://i.imgur.com/TPXfVHY.png




https://mapsontheweb.zoom-maps.com/image/130071639441https://mapsontheweb.zoom-maps.com/image/130071639441https://mapsontheweb.zoom-maps.com/post/130071639441/southern-cone-main-ethnic-groups-at-the-end-of-the

italouruguayan
13-09-18, 01:23
The map of South America seems quite adjusted to reality.

Juan.delajara
13-09-18, 02:13
I agree with you Italouruguayan. The map of South America seems also quite accurate to me, although I will add more europeans in southern Brazil.

Angela
13-09-18, 18:55
Obesity in Europe:

These figures for 2017 are appalling, even for the countries with the lowest percentages.

https://i.imgur.com/FxOouHS.png

I don't understand why England is an outlier.

Angela
14-09-18, 02:22
Homicide rates Europe vs. U.S. I don't understand the figures for the Baltic countries. Can't blame it on firearms, right?

https://i.imgur.com/3Fdz7YO.png

Maciamo
14-09-18, 12:19
I don't understand why England is an outlier.

Because of fast food and other poor eating habits.

ToBeOrNotToBe
14-09-18, 15:03
Because of fast food and other poor eating habits.

Fundamentally, that isn't the issue - the issue is an extremely strong class system.

Also, it looks like that's the UK, not England

Jovialis
14-09-18, 16:16
Because of fast food and other poor eating habits.

https://i.imgur.com/SptVFDfm.jpg

I really enjoy the Full English Breakfast, but it is certainly fattening. Particularly the sausage. Nevertheless, every once in a while is nice.

Though personally, I find that I can eat just about anything, as long as I keep the portions and eating times reasonable, and keep active with exercise.

Jovialis
14-09-18, 16:24
https://i.imgur.com/vYP4xjR.jpg

Most profitable companies by state.

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/argest-Company-By-Revenue-In-Each-State-2014.jpg​

Coriolan
14-09-18, 22:33
World map showing countries the size of their population.

https://ourworldindata.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Population-cartogram_World.png

Angela
14-09-18, 23:06
https://i.imgur.com/SptVFDfm.jpg

I really enjoy the Full English Breakfast, but it is certainly fattening. Particularly the sausage. Nevertheless, every once in a while is nice.

Though personally, I find that I can eat just about anything, as long as I keep the portions and eating times reasonable, and keep active with exercise.

I like it too, although it always upsets my stomach, probably because of all that animal fat and protein at one meal. I don't like the blood pudding, though, or the baked beans when they add them. Their baked beans are really different from American ones: very watery, very sweet sauce.

I think American food basically derives from British and German food. Their tastes are the same: roast beef, bacon and other pork products, battered and fried fish, fried eggs, very cooked vegetables, pies. From the Germans: roast pork, wieners, sauerkraut etc. Sweets are most like the English ones: sort of bland and lots of sugar. I think German and Austrian desserts, by way of contrast, are the best in the world: very high butter content and not as much sugar.

Maciamo is on to something: when I see all the British tourists in Florida, they just love fast food. That seems to be all they feed their children. They tell me, in fact, that's one of the reasons they come: their children don't like European (continental) food.

In terms of calories you have to add the buttered toast as well, and they baste those eggs with the grease from the sausage and bacon. I don't eat that many calories in a day, and that's my animal fat content for two days. :)

Angela
14-09-18, 23:21
I like it too, although it always upsets my stomach, probably because of all that animal fat and protein at one meal. I don't like the blood pudding, though, or the baked beans when they add them. Their baked beans are really different from American ones: very watery, very sweet sauce.

I think American food basically derives from British and German food. Their tastes are the same: roast beef, bacon and other pork products, battered and fried fish, fried eggs, very cooked vegetables, pies. From the Germans: roast pork, wieners, sauerkraut etc. Sweets are most like the English ones: sort of bland and lots of sugar. I think German and Austrian desserts, by way of contrast, are the best in the world: very high butter content and not as much sugar.

Maciamo is on to something: when I see all the British tourists in Florida, they just love fast food. That seems to be all they feed their children. They tell me, in fact, that's one of the reasons they come: their children don't like European (continental) food.

In terms of calories you have to add the buttered toast as well, and they baste those eggs with the grease from the sausage and bacon. I don't eat that many calories in a day, and that's my animal fat content for two days. :)

This is an amusing channel I recently ran across: Irish people try....

I couldn't believe this one. They absolutely ADORE TGI Fridays. I'm not saying it's inedible food, but it's all made at some central factory and then microwaved. You might as well eat frozen tv dinners. :(


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLBa__DsTuk

Other than peanut butter, there doesn't seem to be any American food they don't like, and they seem to particularly love the fast foods, like In and Out Burger etc.

Jovialis
17-09-18, 23:35
https://i.imgur.com/xVI3X4C.png

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/science/2018/03/22/great-pacific-garbage-patch-grows/446405002/

This has been created by currents depositing it from the shores of the surrounding countries from Asia, North, and South America.

Angela
18-09-18, 17:18
I don't understand this cancer rate map for Europe. Anyone have any ideas?

https://i.imgur.com/WGIHPVB.png

Maciamo
18-09-18, 17:51
I don't understand this cancer rate map for Europe. Anyone have any ideas?

https://i.imgur.com/WGIHPVB.png

Which type of cancer is it? Eurostat have maps for many types of cancer, but I couldn't find that one.

Angela
18-09-18, 19:33
Which type of cancer is it? Eurostat have maps for many types of cancer, but I couldn't find that one.

Sorry, I should have copied the whole thing.

From the caption it seems to be total cancer rates, yes?

This is the site. After this map, they show lung and breast cancer. Also very interesting. Cigarette smoking and car fumes would be a factor in the former. For the latter I don't know.
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Archive:Causes_of_death_statistics_at_regional_lev el

There are other maps for other diseases. I knew Italy would have a high rate for cardiovascular things. Part is salt intake but I think a lot is just genetic. Look at poor Otzi. :)

https://i.redd.it/nculrtwtgim11.jpg

ToBeOrNotToBe
19-09-18, 03:14
World map showing countries the size of their population.

https://ourworldindata.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Population-cartogram_World.png

Nice map, really puts Russia into context

ToBeOrNotToBe
19-09-18, 03:26
https://i.redditmedia.com/9GWn9USvSf3MFvZor76Pex7H3GIqFejL2kIKUP2-URQ.jpg
https://i.redditmedia.com/9GWn9USvSf3MFvZor76Pex7H3GIqFejL2kIKUP2-URQ.jpg?
https://www.mapmania.org/static/map/original/hair_and_eye_colour_pigmentation_map_of_europe_614 83.jpg

Only kidding Angela... here's the actual intended maps:

http://www.viewsoftheworld.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/NobelPrizeCartogram.jpg

https://jakubmarian.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/nuts2-patents.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/35/01/f0/3501f0fe5794908758348503dababc9b.jpg

http://www.viewsoftheworld.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/WorldHeritageSitesMap.jpg

Maciamo
19-09-18, 10:52
Sorry, I should have copied the whole thing.

From the caption it seems to be total cancer rates, yes?

This is the site. After this map, they show lung and breast cancer. Also very interesting. Cigarette smoking and car fumes would be a factor in the former. For the latter I don't know.
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Archive:Causes_of_death_statistics_at_regional_lev el

There are other maps for other diseases. I knew Italy would have a high rate for cardiovascular things. Part is salt intake but I think a lot is just genetic. Look at poor Otzi. :)

https://i.redd.it/nculrtwtgim11.jpg

This map shows the death rate from all types of cancer, not the cancer rate. That's very different. The statistics for the cancer rates (https://www.wcrf.org/dietandcancer/cancer-trends/data-cancer-frequency-country) from the World Cancer Research Fund paint a very different picture, with Ireland, Hungary, the Benelux, France and Scandinavia topping the cancer rates. Yet treatments are better in these countries (except Hungary) so mortality from cancer is lower. One of the main causes of cancer is alcohol consumption and there is some correlation. South Europeans drink less alcohol and get less cancer. Of course genetics, diet and stress level play a role too.

Angela
19-09-18, 18:27
This map shows the death rate from all types of cancer, not the cancer rate. That's very different. The statistics for the cancer rates (https://www.wcrf.org/dietandcancer/cancer-trends/data-cancer-frequency-country) from the World Cancer Research Fund paint a very different picture, with Ireland, Hungary, the Benelux, France and Scandinavia topping the cancer rates. Yet treatments are better in these countries (except Hungary) so mortality from cancer is lower. One of the main causes of cancer is alcohol consumption and there is some correlation. South Europeans drink less alcohol and get less cancer. Of course genetics, diet and stress level play a role too.

"Celtic" zone seems to have the highest rates of cancer occurrence, with Greece, Spain, and especially Portugal among the lowest. Italy comes in 24th, just after Sweden.



Rank
Country
Age-standardised rate per 100,000


1
Australia
468.0


2
New Zealand
438.1


3
Ireland
373.7


4
Hungary
368.1


5
US
352.2


6
Belgium
345.8


7
France (metropolitan)
344.1


8
Denmark
340.4


9
Norway
337.8


10
Netherlands
334.1


11
Canada
334.0


12
New Caledonia (France)
324.2


13
UK
319.2


14
South Korea
313.5


15
Germany
313.1


16
Switzerland
311.0


17
Luxembourg
309.3


18
Serbia
307.9


19
Slovenia
304.9


20
Latvia
302.2


21
Slovakia
297.5


22
Czech Republic
296.7


23
Sweden
294.7


24
Italy
290.6


25
Croatia
287.2


26
Lithuania
285.8


27
Estonia
283.3


28
Greece
279.8


29
Spain
272.3


30
Finland
266.2


31
Uruguay
263.4


32
Belarus
260.7


33
Portugal
259.5


34
Iceland
257.8


35
Guadelopue (France)
254.6


36
Puerto Rico
254.5


37
Moldova
254.3


38
Poland
253.8


39
Cyprus
250.8


40
Martinique (France)
250.8


41
Malta
249.4


42
Singapore
248.9


43
Japan
248.0


44
Austria
247.7


45
Barbados
247.5


46
French Guiana
247.0


47
Bulgaria
242.8


48
Lebanon
242.8


49
French Polynesia
240.6


50
Israel
233.6

Tomenable
20-09-18, 21:39
Maps showing concepts of borders of future Poland from the 1800s and first two decades of 1900s:

http://dspace.uni.lodz.pl:8080/xmlui/handle/11089/17060?show=full

English Summary:

"After the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was liquidated and disappeared from the map of Europe at the end of the 18th century, and was partitioned by Russia, Prussia, and Austria, Polish activists of the independence movements never consented to the fact and continued to work for the revival of the Polish state. One of the issues pondered about was that of the future boundaries of this state. Initially, the issue was not complicated at all, since it was commonly held that the sole just solution would be the return to the historical boundaries of 1772. In the later period, the awareness arose that this option cannot be realised. This was not only the consequence of the stable and disadvantageous for Poland geopolitical situation in Europe, but also of the ethnic diversification of the territory of the former Commonwealth. That is why various concepts started to appear, concerning the future boundaries of Poland, considering the historical, geopolitical, strategic, and ethnic conditioning. These concepts were primarily the visions of individual scholars or activists, but often they did represent definite ideological and political orientations. The article presents and comments upon some of these designs. Those more original in substantive terms, and containing an interesting cartographic illustration, were selected for presentation. Thusthe article treats the concepts authored by: Oskar Żebrowski, Stanisław Tomaszewski, Aleksander Janowski, Czesław Jankowski, Włodzimierz Wakar, Wiktor Skarga-Dobrowolski, and Józef Jaskólski. These concepts, postulating the shape of boundaries of Poland, differed significantly as to the general territorial reach of the country and the shapes of its boundaries. Some of them were of clear maximalist character, while other ones were more moderate, and so had higher chances of implementation. The two last proposals for the boundaries of Poland, presented in the article, were already the official documents. The first of those two represented the position of the Polish National Committee, which was active in Lausanne in the years 1917–1918. The last concept of the boundary of Poland, shown in the article, was the official stance of the authorities of the newly re-established Polish state, which was presented at the Peace Conference in Paris in 1919. This concept was developed by Roman Dmowski, who headed Polish delegation at this conference. At the end of the article this most important design, prepared for the Versailles conference, is compared to the actual course of boundaries of the Polish state as it re-emerged after the First World War."

PDF download link:

http://cejsh.icm.edu.pl/cejsh/element/bwmeta1.element.hdl_11089_17060/c/2-009_035-Eberhardt.pdf

This one shows by far the largest area, "Shape of Poland within its Natural Borders", from 1847:

https://i.imgur.com/DeqTurn.jpg

^^^
The area in the west around Poznań-Gniezno called "Kolebka Polanów" = "Cradle of Poles".

LeBrok
21-09-18, 02:38
Maps showing concepts of borders of future Poland from the 1800s and first two decades of 1900s:

http://dspace.uni.lodz.pl:8080/xmlui/handle/11089/17060?show=full

English Summary:

"After the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was liquidated and disappeared from the map of Europe at the end of the 18th century, and was partitioned by Russia, Prussia, and Austria, Polish activists of the independence movements never consented to the fact and continued to work for the revival of the Polish state. One of the issues pondered about was that of the future boundaries of this state. Initially, the issue was not complicated at all, since it was commonly held that the sole just solution would be the return to the historical boundaries of 1772. In the later period, the awareness arose that this option cannot be realised. This was not only the consequence of the stable and disadvantageous for Poland geopolitical situation in Europe, but also of the ethnic diversification of the territory of the former Commonwealth. That is why various concepts started to appear, concerning the future boundaries of Poland, considering the historical, geopolitical, strategic, and ethnic conditioning. These concepts were primarily the visions of individual scholars or activists, but often they did represent definite ideological and political orientations. The article presents and comments upon some of these designs. Those more original in substantive terms, and containing an interesting cartographic illustration, were selected for presentation. Thusthe article treats the concepts authored by: Oskar Żebrowski, Stanisław Tomaszewski, Aleksander Janowski, Czesław Jankowski, Włodzimierz Wakar, Wiktor Skarga-Dobrowolski, and J�zef Jask�lski. These concepts, postulating the shape of boundaries of Poland, differed significantly as to the general territorial reach of the country and the shapes of its boundaries. Some of them were of clear maximalist character, while other ones were more moderate, and so had higher chances of implementation. The two last proposals for the boundaries of Poland, presented in the article, were already the official documents. The first of those two represented the position of the Polish National Committee, which was active in Lausanne in the years 1917�1918. The last concept of the boundary of Poland, shown in the article, was the official stance of the authorities of the newly re-established Polish state, which was presented at the Peace Conference in Paris in 1919. This concept was developed by Roman Dmowski, who headed Polish delegation at this conference. At the end of the article this most important design, prepared for the Versailles conference, is compared to the actual course of boundaries of the Polish state as it re-emerged after the First World War."

PDF download link:

http://cejsh.icm.edu.pl/cejsh/element/bwmeta1.element.hdl_11089_17060/c/2-009_035-Eberhardt.pdf

This one shows by far the largest area, "Shape of Poland within its Natural Borders", from 1847:

https://i.imgur.com/DeqTurn.jpg

^^^
The area in the west around Poznań-Gniezno called "Kolebka Polan�w" = "Cradle of Poles".
Please stop! Did you noticed that people post here geopolitical-statistical maps to interest others in discussions? Do you think anybody here but you is interested in some polish megaloman from the past who dreamed about biggest Poland ever? Screw the Lithuanians, Ukrainians, Moldovans and few others. Long live polish empire.
Maybe you look at this map with pride and joy and you want to share this happy feeling with others? (wrong thread anyway) Believe me, most people here look with disbelief and horror on your nationalistic fantasies. You are scaring people and making enemies. If this is your goal, then congratulations.

Tomenable
21-09-18, 10:54
Ukrainians are already screwing themselves better than anyone else could. Also, the Ukrainian Empire* made ethnic Russian minority in Ukraine unhappy (Crimea, Donbass). Same in Moldova (Russians in Transnistria). Do you think that ethnic Russians in Ukraine have the right of self-determination, or no?

*The largest country fully in Europe which includes many historically, and even currently, Non-Ukrainian lands.


Screw the Lithuanians

American experts advised that Poland-Lithuania should be one country again, like before the Partitions:

https://archive.org/stream/MyDiaryAtConferenceOfParis-Vol4/Miller--MyDiaryAtConferenceOfParis-Vol4#page/n239/mode/2up


Long live polish empire.

I just posted that map as a fun curiosity, not because I really believe we should have these borders.

But since you are so paranoid, neurotic and over-reacting every time I post anything. Here we go: :laughing:

Where is the Fatherland of a Pole?
Is it Wielkopolska? Is it Podolia?
Oh no, no, no!
Our Fatherland must be bigger!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TseCA2qdVZ8

Poland was the only country of the victorious Allied coalition in WW2, which ended the war with smaller territory than at the beginning of the war:

Polish territory in 1939 - 390,000 km2
Polish territory in 1945 - 312,000 km2 (decline by 78,000 km2, or to 80% of pre-war size)

^^^ How come that a country which was, theoretically, among the victors, lost territory?

Ukrainians still celebrate Bandera and Nazi Ukrainian SS Units - this was in April 2018:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0JKqYu7_Ds

^^^
The current crisis in Ukraine is their own fault, they traded Poles for Russian separatists:

http://i.imgur.com/9LMM7iD.png

Angela
21-09-18, 15:28
This thread is not going to turn into a safe haven for jingoistic propaganda or the same old same old pigmentation obsessions, as per another post upthread.

I opened it; I'll close it.

Angela
01-10-18, 18:00
Harm to children by family structure:

https://i.imgur.com/3pTbPOW.png

If I've thought it once I've thought it thousands of times: if your marriage breaks up, DON'T bring another man into the house until your children are grown.

Angela
08-10-18, 19:33
Current support for autocratic rule. It's rather disheartening.

https://i.imgur.com/aE4SpG0.png

Angela
10-10-18, 16:12
Expenditure on education in Europe as percent of GDP:
https://i.imgur.com/3prd0Gf.png



Shame on Italy, and it hurts me to say that. Natural gifts aren't enough; you have to nurture them.

Angela
14-10-18, 18:25
Iberian land use c.1500
https://i.imgur.com/fpPUz0Z.png

Given how much olive oil Spain produces today, surely that has changed?

Angela
24-10-18, 16:30
Well, if they're not lying, this is heartening, although I'd like to see WHICH books they read.:)

https://i.imgur.com/qpzNzmm.png

The only print books I read are things like texts or histories. For fiction I use e books.

https://i.imgur.com/NPjgLMq.png

This is for men. Why the skew in eastern Europe? Cigarettes? (Italians and the French smoke a lot too, though) Drink? Food? Genetics?

The differences in western Europe are small: 81 for Germany versus 83 for Italians. Women are even longer lived. That's why I had so many great aunts in their mid 90's when they died. I doubt I'll make it that long.

https://i.imgur.com/BWEExRy.png

Good grief! Why are so many Brits involvent in their prime years? As for gender imbalance, it's easy: divorced women with children.

Jovialis
24-10-18, 16:47
I've been trying to learn the difference.

https://i.imgur.com/uu3qp0o.png

Angela
24-10-18, 18:56
I've been trying to learn the difference.

https://i.imgur.com/uu3qp0o.png

That's a really nice site. I took a very basic wine course years ago, but I forgot what little I learned. :)

Looking at the chart, I definitely prefer dryer wines. By the sixth from the left on the red wines it's getting too sweet for me. For the white wines I like them dryer yet.

Of course, it depends what you're eating. If you're a Silicon Valley type, you could have Barolo one night with chicken, and Brunello di Montalcino the next night with beef.

That isn't to say I don't like my vin santo with some cantuccini after a meal, but a little goes a long way.

Jovialis
24-10-18, 21:15
That's a really nice site. I took a very basic wine course years ago, but I forgot what little I learned. :)

Looking at the chart, I definitely prefer dryer wines. By the sixth from the left on the red wines it's getting too sweet for me. For the white wines I like them dryer yet.

Of course, it depends what you're eating. If you're a Silicon Valley type, you could have Barolo one night with chicken, and Brunello di Montalcino the next night with beef.

That isn't to say I don't like my vin santo with some cantuccini after a meal, but a little goes a long way.

I also prefer to drink the dryer wines for both red and white. We're doing this wine tasting package that comes in a box of vials each month. I tried the same wine, from three different years. the taste changed significantly from one year to another. Though the starkest transition was from the first year to the second. It had gotten significantly better tasting. It initially tasted chalky, but then became much smoother.

Angela
26-10-18, 20:09
Eight ways to divide Belgium. Sorry I couldn't make it larger so it's easier to read the legends. The one on identity is interesting. The French speakers always identity as Belgian, the non-French speakers only during the football matches. :)

The comments are quite interesting as well.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/9pv3ub/eight_ways_to_divide_belgium/

Angela
30-10-18, 20:55
https://i.imgur.com/GZl1WBn.png

This map explains a lot of why I have to close threads on this site. :)

I certainly don't want to tell Pew their Business, but it's not about religion really. Most Italians, for example, couldn't care less. Again, why are Spain and Portugal so different?

https://i.imgur.com/EM9eFik.png

https://i.imgur.com/2bxoMGy.png

JajarBingan
31-10-18, 00:00
.

I can theorise that in the Balkans, due to the romanticism of the fights against the Ottomans and being self-perceived as protectorates of Christendom, the national identity is strongly intertwined with religion (which isn't really spiritual in this part Europe, but rather exists only on paper as to preserve the tradition).

That also spills over into views of cultural superiority (e.g. the traditional us vs. the decadent them).

rincewind
31-10-18, 10:08
In the Baltics, blame homicide rates on the booze.

Angela
31-10-18, 17:53
Number of deaths in WW2 as percentage of pre-war population. Also pay attention to the pie graph. There's no comparison between the conduct of the Western Allies and the Nazis.

How many of those Russian and eastern European deaths were Jews, I wonder, how many killed in civil wars of one type or another, and how many are the responsibility of Stalin-purging all his best generals, demoralization caused by the political commissars, starvation partly caused poor pre-war policies, lack of equipment. What a monster.

https://i.imgur.com/3LpLcLs.png

JajarBingan
31-10-18, 21:18
How many of those Russian and eastern European deaths were Jews, I wonder, how many killed in civil wars of one type or another, and how many are the responsibility of Stalin-purging all his best generals, demoralization caused by the political commissars, starvation partly caused poor pre-war policies, lack of equipment. What a monster.



Try "Bloodlands" by Timothy Snyder for answers. I won't spoil.

Angela
31-10-18, 21:36
Try "Bloodlands" by Timothy Snyder for answers. I won't spoil.


Thanks Jarjar. After reading the synopsis and some reviews I borrowed a digital version from my library. If it's really good I'll buy a used copy for my library.

I don't know how I missed it. That period of European history is sort of my "thing". Keep them coming. :)

Angela
01-11-18, 18:40
School grades in Sweden: natives versus immigrants. What surprises me is that the "natives" have slightly lower scores than some immigrants. Of course, it's sometimes the case that barring some special situations, it's the more intelligent and the capable who have enough confidence in themselves to go to a strange country and have to adapt to a new language, new customs, learn new skills etc. I'm sure the western European "migrants" were highly educated in their own countries. We have the same situation here. All of the Indians I've met who migrated here come from high caste, high education families in India. Of course they're going to thrive well and do well in school. It's a different thing when you open the doors and accept the "poorest of the poor" of any group.

https://i.imgur.com/9QardGA.png

Do you spare yourself and your passengers over the pedestrians or vice versa?

Look at the difference between two of the countries in East Asia.

https://i.imgur.com/MHCihr3.png

Jovialis
08-11-18, 13:25
The visual world economy:

https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/11/08/the-visual-world-economy/

Angela
08-11-18, 15:02
The visual world economy:

https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/11/08/the-visual-world-economy/

Very informative. If anyone needs a reason for Italy to get out of EU it's here. It isn't the only reason, but it's a big one for Italy's problems.

Jovialis
14-11-18, 15:15
https://i.imgur.com/sitwqJQ.jpg

https://phys.org/news/2018-11-zoologist-outlines-humans-evolution-century.html

Angela
18-11-18, 02:14
Iconic foods of Europe map:
https://i.imgur.com/GvWxzFC.png

Angela
19-11-18, 16:04
Billionaires per 10 million people per country:
https://i.imgur.com/PO3Ml4j.png

That doesn't look so egalitarian for egalitarian Scandinavia.

Jovialis
20-11-18, 13:47
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=11&v=thGvKuqDPDE

Not sure if this counts as for the thread, but check it out. 11 second video of a 360 degree x-ray view of the human body.:

Human images from world's first total-body scanner unveiled

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-11-human-images-world-total-body-scanner.html?utm_source=tabs&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=story-tabs

Angela
25-11-18, 18:51
Opposition to gay marriage in Europe:
https://i.imgur.com/hlZdjMx.png

Angela
25-11-18, 18:51
https://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/images/2015/02/articles/body/20150207_wom911.png

Angela
28-11-18, 02:01
Happiness is not always about economics:
https://i.imgur.com/vi40oAM.png

firetown
28-11-18, 20:43
I strongly disagree with this chart. Even if as usual, you consider me a coward for mentioning that you have infracted me for disagreeing with you to Maciamo (see private DMs). In the Eastern European nations, I see strong differences between quality of life based on money earned (or money that you have) and the assumptions as in your chart. I can name a country next to Bulgaria where you are not likely to be that happy no matter what you have as you are constantly being hassled if people know you are not from there. In Bulgaria however, you are who you are and people are welcoming. These charts are based on generalizations. And they are highly inaccurate, Angela. Once again, it seems you want to set a pace based on what you have read. I get that people here are now afraid of opposing you as an immediate infraction will come. But before you post any "truth" about any country, I suggest that you actually bother visiting them first. Maybe then, you will be able to be objective enough to allow the readers of this wonderful forum to be able to get information that is actually valuable so they can decide to visit amazing countries regardless of what you think they are supposed to experience.

The Euro-how far would it go?

This would apply most to retired people or people otherwise living on investment income, because the real barometer for people within a country would be a correlation between this and salaries.

https://i.imgur.com/AZr0RwT.png


Relative income areas in U.S. Just as I thought. California is turning into a majority very poor state with a small wealthy elite. Their policies will only make the disparity greater over time

https://i.imgur.com/uUaHtns.png

Angela
28-11-18, 22:11
This thread is for posting interesting maps and graphs created by academics, NOT BY ME. It is meant for discussion, discussion which mostly doesn't happen, unfortunately, as I would like to explore and perhaps critique the studies upon which the visuals are based. In no way do I claim that any of these maps are ABSOLUTELY true, particularly when it is a matter of the social sciences, given how often I point out the replication crisis in the social sciences.

My only comment was my inference that the sense of well-being of people in Latin America can't be based on having a good economy. Once again you exhibit your inability to understand many posts here as well as the academic papers. That's why I ignore you. There's nothing to learn.

In terms of the study you clearly didn't understand that it is based not on some academic's opinion, but on THE RESPONSES OF PEOPLE IN THOSE COUNTRIES! Only idiots would think there's only one factor, i.e. economics, to be considered. If you want to comb the study to find out the sources, the methodology, the specific questions, and through that show that the results are incorrect, by all means go ahead. I'd be very interested in reading it. I'm completely uninterested in your personal, source-less opinion, especially given you didn't even understand the source of the visual.

Furthermore, I am done allowing you to question my authority as a moderator. Another t-roll like you went crying to Maciamo just this last week. Maciamo told me he trusts my judgment. If you don't like that, you misogynist, it's just too bad.

Attack me one more time and I will give you an infraction for that as well as for this post, and it is not because you disagree with me (rather, with the paper); it is because you are questioning my authority as a moderator and lying about me once again. If I gave infractions for posting absolute nonsense with no scientific basis most of the people posting on the Balkan threads would be long gone.

Angela
28-11-18, 23:56
This thread is for posting interesting maps and graphs created by academics, NOT BY ME. It is meant for discussion, discussion which mostly doesn't happen, unfortunately, as I would like to explore and perhaps critique the studies upon which the visuals are based. In no way do I claim that any of these maps are ABSOLUTELY true, particularly when it is a matter of the social sciences, given how often I point out the replication crisis in the social sciences.

My only comment was my inference that the sense of well-being of people in Latin America can't be based on having a good economy. Once again you exhibit your inability to understand many posts here as well as the academic papers. That's why I ignore you. There's nothing to learn.

In terms of the study you clearly didn't understand that it is based not on some academic's opinion, but on THE RESPONSES OF PEOPLE IN THOSE COUNTRIES! Only idiots would think there's only one factor, i.e. economics, to be considered. If you want to comb the study to find out the sources, the methodology, the specific questions, and through that show that the results are incorrect, by all means go ahead. I'd be very interested in reading it. I'm completely uninterested in your personal, source-less opinion, especially given you didn't even understand the source of the visual.

Furthermore, I am done allowing you to question my authority as a moderator. Another t-roll like you went crying to Maciamo just this last week. Maciamo told me he trusts my judgment. If you don't like that, you misogynist, it's just too bad.

Attack me one more time and I will give you an infraction for that as well as for this post, and it is not because you disagree with me (rather, with the paper); it is because you are questioning my authority as a moderator and lying about me once again. If I gave infractions for posting absolute nonsense with no scientific basis most of the people posting on the Balkan threads would be long gone.

By the way, I checked, and you didn't get anywhere with the infraction issued by me. Furthermore, I have in the past given you some thumbs up. I'm sure even you can understand that likely won't be happening in the future.

So, wrong twice over.

Angela
04-12-18, 16:51
Human Development Index based on life expectancy, education level, and GDP. I don't think those are the only important factors, but for what it's worth...

https://i.imgur.com/C5VDONw.pnghttps://twitter.com/hbdchick?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7C twgr%5Eauthor

Dreptul Valah
04-12-18, 17:53
https://i.imgur.com/C5VDONw.png[/IMG]https://twitter.com/hbdchick?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7C twgr%5Eauthor


If the Transylvanians want to go back to the usual Saxon(perhaps,even Slavic) greediness, it's their choice,but it is very important, in my opinion, to not cross, break,certain barriers, both economically and culturally(unfortunately, not too good news,in this respect).



And for the third so-called power,Russia, unfortunately the clear differences between how they treat people in Kazakhstan vs Ukraine and the Balkans makes no special case,see the US-Saudi prosperity.



My possible choices so far,China,Israel,Greece.

Angela
04-12-18, 18:56
https://i.imgur.com/C5VDONw.png[/IMG]https://twitter.com/hbdchick?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7C twgr%5Eauthor


If the Transylvanians want to go back to the usual Saxon(perhaps,even Slavic) greediness, it's their choice,but it is very important, in my opinion, to not cross, break,certain barriers, both economically and culturally(unfortunately, not too good news,in this respect).



And for the third so-called power,Russia, unfortunately the clear differences between how they treat people in Kazakhstan vs Ukraine and the Balkans makes no special case,see the US-Saudi prosperity.



My possible choices so far,China,Israel,Greece.

You'd prefer to live in China??? Have you read the China, China, China thread? If you want to live in Israel, make sure it's not as a Palestinian Israeli.

Poor Greece. The economic crisis hit them so hard that the schools are half empty: few people are having children. It will take them years to recover. You obviously have no children, or you would not want to bequeath that to them.

Jovialis
10-12-18, 13:04
How to survive on 'Game of Thrones': Switch allegiances


https://i.imgur.com/EJhq8vL.jpg

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-12-survive-game-thrones-allegiances.html

Yngwar
16-12-18, 15:35
Maybe someone will find maps with addresses and postal codes useful https://worldpostalcode.com/united-states/delaware/. It covers all the globe and gives this useful information. After all, if you need something to deliver, for instance, this information will be necessary.

Angela
18-12-18, 17:32
Not in map form, but very interesting nonetheless.

Life is worse today than 50 years ago:

Italy: 50%Brazil: 49%France: 46%US: 41%South Africa: 36%Australia: 33%UK: 31%Russia: 28%Canada: 24%Germany: 20%India: 17%South Korea: 17%Japan: 15%Vietnam: 4%

It's from Pew Research.

Some are understandable just from an economic standpoint. Some are not. Do U.S. testees not remember the social unrest of the late 60s?

How free would the Vietnamese be to answer these kinds of questions?

Angela
19-12-18, 17:34
Lowest temperature records in Europe:
https://i.imgur.com/PEvvVAg.png

Angela
28-12-18, 17:42
Irish genetic clusters

https://i.imgur.com/3Cjoybs.png

Angela
28-12-18, 19:14
Spanish autosomal structure.

The drift because of political boundaries seems to have an effect.

https://i.imgur.com/57Tbzny.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/yPtEJEu.png

Source:
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2018/03/12/250191.full.pdf

Another interesting one: signal of North Moroccan ancestry:
https://i.imgur.com/JV0zC9U.png

Jovialis
29-12-18, 23:51
"Estimated global migration flows by region from 2010 to 2015. Numbers indicate millions of people. Credit: Azose and Raftery, PNAS, 2018"

http://i.imgur.com/lOK5Stj.jpg
https://phys.org/news/2018-12-global-migration-steady-high.html

Angela
30-12-18, 18:33
Mean number of children by race and political ideology among Americans.

https://i.imgur.com/isrMTlC.png

Angela
08-01-19, 18:56
Male androgenic body hair map...The more SSA, the more East Asian, the most Amerindian, the less body hair? Why do Swedes and Norwegians have more than Slavs? A bit more "Siberian"?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/Bodyhair_map_according_to_American_Journal_of_Phys ical_Anthropology_and_other_sources.jpg

Minty
11-01-19, 13:42
Male androgenic body hair map...The more SSA, the more East Asian, the most Amerindian, the less body hair? Why do Swedes and Norwegians have more than Slavs? A bit more "Siberian"?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/Bodyhair_map_according_to_American_Journal_of_Phys ical_Anthropology_and_other_sources.jpg

True, I don't really need to shave much. Then again, this map is only for male? :laughing:

gidai
11-01-19, 15:40
Map according to the world population in 2018.

(https://ourworldindata.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Population-cartogram_World-2.png)https://ourworldindata.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Population-cartogram_World-2.png

Angela
29-01-19, 18:36
Percentages of support for an EU Army. Interesting.

https://i.imgur.com/DyA4Zgf.png



Even in Scandinavian social welfare states, fertility rates continue to fall. They're in Italian territory now.

https://i.imgur.com/EFJhvOP.pngPercentage of credit card debt by country.. No surprises. Contrary to stereotype, Italians are very conservative about money. Great savers too.

https://i.imgur.com/Q4IF6JV.png

Jovialis
29-01-19, 18:52
Percentage of credit card debt by country.. No surprises, contrary to stereotype, nobody is more conservative than Italians about money. Great savers too.

https://i.imgur.com/Q4IF6JV.png

Indeed, and in the North Eastern, US, I feel this is common knowledge. Italians are frugal, own lots of property, and businesses. Moreover, they live in some of the best neighborhoods in the entire country. They've done far better for themselves, than the majority of other immigrant groups in the USA imo. My friend who is a banker (also Italian), says it is mostly Italian-Americans, and Irish-Americans who are his colleagues.

Angela
29-01-19, 19:40
Indeed, and in the North Eastern, US, I feel this is common knowledge. Italians are frugal, own lots of property, and businesses. Moreover, they live in some of the best neighborhoods in the entire country. They've done far better for themselves, than the majority of other immigrant groups in the USA imo. My friend who is a banker (also Italian), says it is mostly Italian-Americans, and Irish-Americans who are his colleagues.

I was thinking about the fact that Italians are known to spend a lot on food, to be generous hosts, to like to go out and have a good time, to dress well etc. In Europe there's a perception that Italians are a bit spendthrift. One of my Croatian friends would tell stories of the differing patterns of spending money on vacation of Italians versus Germans on her Adriatic island. She said the Germans would apportion out the money at the beginning: so much for each day, for food, for entertainment etc., and also would do a lot of cooking in their lodgings etc. and stay longer. The Italians would go out more, take advantage of all the sites, entertain each other, and when the money was gone, go home.

The operative fact for this discussion is that when the money they had allotted for the vacation was gone they went home; they didn't use a credit card to stay longer.

It's just that most Italians would never be cheap with a guest, or a family member, or on food for their families. The economies take place elsewhere. Yes, they want to dress well, so they buy a few good pieces, and know how to accessorize. That's of course a generality, and a generality more true the further south you go in Italy. I regret to say that some of my father's Emilian relatives were pretty tight fisted even with family and guests, and Ligurians are perhaps even more stereotypically cheap than Emilians. My father's relatives were thrilled when he married my mother with her Ligurian frugality about money, because my father, contrary to most of his family, was indeed born with "holes in his hands" as the saying goes.

They also don't gamble with their money, by and large, investing in "safe" things like real property, apartment buildings being a popular one, or bonds, or safe blue chip stocks. This ties in with other studies showing they're very risk averse, and distrustful of what the future might bring. Part of that is genetic, I think, and part of it their history.

Jovialis
30-01-19, 17:20
https://i.imgur.com/n9k1PtA.jpg

https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2019/01/29/millennials-turn-away-from-creationism/#more-194198

Catholics from the silent generation are more likely than Protestant millennials to believe that human developed from animals, according to this chart.

Jovialis
05-02-19, 17:10
https://i.imgur.com/wH26dos.png

Angela
08-02-19, 04:15
Suicide rates by country. I don't get some of this. Why do people in South Korea have such high rates, even higher than Japan? The Italian percentage is really low, yet all they do is complain about their country, their lives etc. (Not that they don't have some reasons to complain.) Countries like Norway and Germany, where many more people claim to be happy have higher rates. In those countries are you just expected to say you're happy and everything is fine even when it's not? Do Italians just like to complain, or is complaining cathartic? It sure doesn't correlate with wealth.

https://i.imgur.com/7y6bfuF.png

Angela
05-03-19, 18:31
Percentage of people by country who think most people are trustworthy.

Within Italy I'm pretty sure there's a cline.

Personally I think the people in some countries are incredibly naive.

https://i.imgur.com/faEDBwm.png

Jovialis
05-03-19, 19:15
I remember back in college, when we were learning about Machiavelli, who considered most people untrustworthy. I said to myself, "Wow, my father tells me the same thing!". :laughing:

I agree, people need to earn trust.

hrvclv
05-03-19, 21:47
Percentage of people by country who think most people are trustworthy.

Within Italy I'm pretty sure there's a cline.

Personally I think the people in some countries are incredibly naive.

https://i.imgur.com/faEDBwm.png

My hunch is that the degree of trust people place in others directly depends on how trustworthy they know/feel themselves to be.

Angela
05-03-19, 21:49
I remember back in college, when we were learning about Machiavelli, who considered most people untrustworthy. I said to myself, "Wow, my father tells me the same thing!". :laughing:

I agree, people need to earn trust.

Even then, if the stakes are high enough, the number of people you can trust will be very few.

People act in their own self-interest when the chips are down. Imo, anyone who believes otherwise is naive.

Angela
05-03-19, 22:04
My hunch is that the degree of trust people place in others directly depends on how trustworthy they know/feel themselves to be.

That's not how it is with me. I used to be a very trusting young woman. The passage of time, experience, but more than anything, twenty years in courthouses disabused me of that idea.

Some reading of history is informative too. Your country lived through an occupation, as did mine. How many people collaborated for gain? How many anonymous denunciations? How many were willing to risk their own jobs, livelihoods, out of loyalty to their friends?

Even in much less extreme conditions, like the corporate workplace, an enormous amount of back stabbing and other unsavory behavior is going on. How do a lot of families behave when the reading of the will doesn't go their way, how many things disappear before the will is even read? How many false accusations are made in divorce proceedings? Indeed, how many times are vows of undying love and fidelity broken? If companies weren't afraid of getting caught, how fairly would they operate? How safe would their products be?

As I said, maybe you have to see it over and over again to realize the pervasiveness of it.

Of course, there are people who aren't like that, but it's hard figuring out who they are.

hrvclv
05-03-19, 22:43
That's not how it is with me. I used to be a very trusting young woman.

That's what I meant.

"Un cœur noble ne peut soupçonner en autrui
La bassesse et la malice qu’il ne sent point en lui." (Jean Racine)

A noble heart cannot suspect in others
The baseness and guile it can't feel in itself.

It takes time, and a number of betrayals, before we grow prudent. We tend to expect from others as much as we are prepared to give.

If you look at the map again, you'll see the degree of trust is highest in those Protestant, "rigorous-minded" northern countries, where people don't run traffic-lights and stop signs, where they report dog-owners for failing to remove a turd from the sidewalk, etc... They expect a certain type of behavior, and are prepared to bank on it.

Sticking to codes is part and parcel of their cultural package. It applies to social and interpersonal conduct.

markod
05-03-19, 23:01
My hunch is that the degree of trust people place in others directly depends on how trustworthy they know/feel themselves to be.

You are very wrong. North Europeans are statistically more likely to cheat than, for example, Italians. They are shrewder in general I would say. It's obvious if you have experience with innternational sales.

See this comparison of Danes and Italians:

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/62eb/759a0b5079486771fa960ca140de6de783c4.pdf

Danes are more likely than Italians to evade taxes, but at the same time also more like to condemn tax evasion in others. This is no surprise to me.

Salento
05-03-19, 23:04
Thanks @hrvclv for pointing out where to find the Suckers.
But I doubt you’re right.
I disagree with the Stereotype reasoning and generalization.

hrvclv
05-03-19, 23:31
You are very wrong. North Europeans are statistically more likely to cheat than, for example, Italians. They are shrewder in general I would say. It's obvious if you have experience with innternational sales.

See this comparison of Danes and Italians:

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/62eb/759a0b5079486771fa960ca140de6de783c4.pdf

Danes are more likely than Italians to evade taxes, but at the same time also more like to condemn tax evasion in others. This is no surprise to me.

I may be wrong. But in what you wrote, the operative words seem to me to be "statistically" and "likely to". The temptation may be there, as it is in every human being. But the hard facts speak for themselves: they are tempted to cheat... but they don't.

I didn't go through the 52 pages of the paper you refer to, but it seems to measure temptation rather than actual cheating. It also compares Italian students (virtual taxpayers) against Danish workers (actual taxpayers), which largely discredts whatever conclusions it claims to arrive at.


@Salento: with a "trust rate" at 27% in my country, I wouldn't even think of pointing an accusing finger at "suckers", whether Italian or Danish.

Angela
05-03-19, 23:41
I think some peoples may just be better at being hypocrites than others, or maybe a lot of them are just, as Salento said, oblivious, and therefore "suckers". A very famous American businessman, P.T. Barnum, who created a huge and successful circus, said, "A ******'s born every minute, and two to fleece him."

I had to learn the hard way that most people don't share my values or morals, and also, as I said, my work life involved seeing the "underbelly" of human relations, the part of their lives that people usually hide.

I've lived most of my life here in America, and mostly among Americans of predominantly northern European extraction, and I don't see them at all as more "honest" than, say, Americans of Italian or Jewish ancestry. The worst fleecing I ever got was from a southern gentleman complete with charm and a lovely drawl. :)

I don't care if my friends cross the road in the middle of the block instead of at the crossing zone. Those aren't the measures I'm looking at.

Maybe I'm wrong, but one of the things that I've always liked about the French is that they've seemed to me clear eyed and honest about human nature.

I suppose hypocrisy is one of the things I object to the most.

markod
05-03-19, 23:44
I may be wrong. But in what you wrote, the operative words seem to me to be "statistically" and "likely to". The temptation may be there, as it is in every human being. But the hard facts speak for themselves: they are tempted to cheat... but they don't.

I didn't go through the 52 pages of the paper you refer to, but it seems to measure temptation rather than actual cheating. It also compares Italian students (virtual taxpayers) against Danish workers (actual taxpayers), which largely discredts whatever conclusions it claims to arrive at.


@Salento: with a "trust rate" at 27% in my country, I wouldn't even think of pointing an accusing finger at "suckers", whether Italian or Danish.


The Italian sample has more fully employed/self-employed subjects.


As predicted, the answers to the postexperimental questionnaire revealed that Italians were more likely to tolerate tax evasion thanDanes. However, in the tax-compliance experiment—where subjects faced a transparent taxsystem, efficient redistributive regime and unambiguous audit rates and penalties—Italians wereless likely to be evaders than Danes and, among those classified as evaders, Italians evaded by alower amount than Danes.

Salento
05-03-19, 23:49
@hrvclv You're the one who pointed the finger by praising the Nordic “Rigorous Minded” Protestant populations. Whatever that means.

Angela
05-03-19, 23:55
@hrvclv You're the one who pointed the finger by praising to the Nordic “Rigorous Minded” Protestant populations. Whatever that means.

Who were the more likely to support Hitler and the Nazis, by the way.

The Germans didn't even try to build a death camp on Italian soil, but they built them a plenty in northern and eastern Europe.

In the immortal words of one German general: "We can't tell the Italians about the death camps. They'd never stomach it." Of course, the Nazis weren't breaking any laws in setting the Holocaust into motion and implementing it, or the death of the gypsies and Poles, or when they killed 10 innocent Italians during the War for every German killed. They conveniently changed the laws to allow it all before they started.

hrvclv
06-03-19, 00:09
I don't care if my friends cross the road in the middle of the block instead of at the crossing zone. Those aren't the measures I'm looking at.

Of course my reference to traffic-lights was meant as illustrative of an attitude, not as anything laudable in itself - as I am sure you understood. I have never set a foot in Scandinavia, but I have spent some time in Germany. I do not cultivate stereotypes per se, but I could see for myself their devotion to order and efficiency. To be honest, as a Frenchman, lacking in discipline, I ended up finding it a bit stifling over time, which unmistakably tells you there is something beyond the stereotype.

What I meant above was that in some countries there is a form of social pressure, and a more acute concern for one's public image, that dissuade you from acting up as freely as you would elsewhere. (I never felt any such pressure in the US, by the way, or if at all, in a much milder form).


Maybe I'm wrong, but one of the things that I've always liked about the French is that they've seemed to me clear eyed and honest about human nature.

Well... we are known to be a bit blunt (some say, rude) at times. I am not at all sure that bluntness should be mistaken for honesty. I don't have to think long to spot a few first-class hypocrites in my entourage.

hrvclv
06-03-19, 00:29
@hrvclv You're the one who pointed the finger by praising the Nordic “Rigorous Minded” Protestant populations. Whatever that means.

You seem to have misinterpreted my words, and intentions. I described an attitude, which I have witnessed and experienced. It was not in any way meant to praise or disparage anything or anyone. In my previous post above, I refer to the said attitude as "a bit stifling", which is not exactly a eulogy.

This said, there are plenty of things I admire about the Germans, and their sense of organization is certainly one of them. Their achievements in economic terms are proof enough of that. They are certainly hard-working and efficient, which virtues I do praise and respect. And I can't think why I couldn't state so much without running the risk of being indicted for nordicism. The good old days of witch hunts are over. Give us a break!

I also admire the ancient Romans, and the ancient Greeks, which probably makes me a militaristic, fascistic, would-be slave-holder. I love the English, which makes me a colonialist-empirialist dog. And so on. Do we have to beg for permission from the right-thinking authorities before we can risk a comment on this forum?

Salento
06-03-19, 01:00
@hrvclv If I misunderstood is because you weren’t clear, and you initially failed to communicate your concept properly. :smile:
You have explained better in later posts.

davef
06-03-19, 06:36
Of course my reference to traffic-lights was meant as illustrative of an attitude, not as anything laudable in itself - as I am sure you understood. I have never set a foot in Scandinavia, but I have spent some time in Germany. I do not cultivate stereotypes per se, but I could see for myself their devotion to order and efficiency. To be honest, as a Frenchman, lacking in discipline, I ended up finding it a bit stifling over time, which unmistakably tells you there is something beyond the stereotype.

What I meant above was that in some countries there is a form of social pressure, and a more acute concern for one's public image, that dissuade you from acting up as freely as you would elsewhere. (I never felt any such pressure in the US, by the way, or if at all, in a much milder form).



Well... we are known to be a bit blunt (some say, rude) at times. I am not at all sure that bluntness should be mistaken for honesty. I don't have to think long to spot a few first-class hypocrites in my entourage.
I would feel the same as you! As an example, there's a stop sign just down my road that I almost always speed by without stopping if I don't see any traffic condition that would make it dangerous not to stop (or a police officer). I will gladly break the "code" if nobody (including myself) ends up hurting in any way shape or form

Angela
06-03-19, 16:39
Witchcraft trials as percent of population:

I guess it makes sense to me now that I never really understood this whole "cultural" manifestation. The witch, male or female, is rather a respected figure in our folklore, and there are still a few hold outs who believe in it and go to them. I remember reading about the Salem witch trials and being appalled at these tales of sexual acitivity with the devil etc.

https://i.imgur.com/k1gBkLU.png

Angela
09-03-19, 15:59
Languages of British Isles: short video of the changing map. Very cool, but is it accurate?

https://i.imgur.com/nP8S7v4.png

https://external-preview.redd.it/mp4/6AXCdCrzewmwXrkv6gisM1qFGfAJQIltEK-7XLBlRr4-source.mp4?9e8ddca9

https://external-preview.redd.it/mp4/6AXCdCrzewmwXrkv6gisM1qFGfAJQIltEK-7XLBlRr4-source.mp4?9e8ddca9

Angela
17-03-19, 19:36
Correlation between height and Yamnaya ancestry.

https://i.imgur.com/YmClrie.png

I think it's fine in general, but I would quibble with the placement of the French and the English. I don't know where they got their data. Or maybe it's because I'm think of the Irish and the Welsh, who aren't very tall.

Angela
06-04-19, 16:47
Where cows live in Europe.

https://i.imgur.com/DTyFCMF.png

Angela
25-04-19, 17:53
Homicides by country worldwide:
https://static.businessinsider.com/image/55831cda69bedde87600549e/image.jpg

Well, Mexico is obvious. How drugs ruined an entire country.

I would bet a lot of the rest are fueled by alcohol.

What we do to ourselves....

Angela
26-04-19, 21:11
European GDP by region. That strip of prosperity down the middle of Europe from Scandinavia through Toscana has been in place for a long time. I don't pretend to understand it.

I can tell you why La Spezia gets a red color: we've been inundated by Moroccans, as well as others, who have no marketable skills, and we're too small a city to support it.

https://i.imgur.com/9sDKZ4O.png

hrvclv
09-05-19, 09:26
https://youtu.be/JObGveVUz7k


https://youtu.be/UxeIljI6lJo

Angela
09-05-19, 18:10
Intermarriage rates in the U.S. Once again, Hollywood is not reality.

https://i.imgur.com/Q5RQxAn.png

Angela
02-06-19, 20:46
No of cigarettes per person per year worldwide.

I'm convinced the numbers are as low as that for Italy because fewer women smoke there than in other countries. Italian men smoke like chimneys.

https://imgur.com/780VMMc)
http://i66.tinypic.com/2v9aiv6.jpg
https://imgur.com/2m53MuE
https://imgur.com/a/kB6WLik

Ailchu
02-06-19, 22:37
Intermarriage rates in the U.S. Once again, Hollywood is not reality.

https://i.imgur.com/Q5RQxAn.png
strange graphic. why are certain groups nationalities while others are "race"? and "white" means "caucasian" in america right?

Ailchu
02-06-19, 22:47
how many earths do we need if all people live like those in these countries. which countries have a score of 1? maybe we should start to live like them? maybe namibia looks like a candidate.
https://www.footprintnetwork.org/content/uploads/2019/01/Infogrpahic-Pub-Data-Circle-v3.png

Tutkun Arnaut
02-06-19, 23:55
Intermarriage rates in the U.S. Once again, Hollywood is not reality.

https://i.imgur.com/Q5RQxAn.png

Is this chart based on factual data? I see at the bottom black female marring white males!

Angela
03-06-19, 00:08
Is this chart based on factual data? I see at the bottom black female marring white males!

Of course it's based on actual data. 5% of black women marry white men. What? You thought it never happened at all? That is, however, the lowest rate for women of color marrying black men. 14% of black men marry white women, but still, 91% of white women marry white men. (90% of white men marry white women.) You have to keep in mind there are a lot more white people than black people in the U.S.

90% of white men marry white women. 91% of white women marry white men.

Angela
03-06-19, 01:35
strange graphic. why are certain groups nationalities while others are "race"? and "white" means "caucasian" in america right?

"Black" is how African Americans prefer to be called. You can't assign them a "nationality" because they've been here since the founding of the country, and you can't even assign them a country in Africa because their ancestors came from many countries in Africa.

Much the same logic applies to "whites".

Jovialis
03-06-19, 03:00
imo, White and Black are terms that should be discarded, in light of what we know about genetics.

https://i.imgur.com/k1q295W.png

Middle Easterners are closer to Europeans, than "Blacks" are to each other. Yet, American society would consider Europeans and Middle Easterners to be a different race, while "blacks" are considered one. This is very problematic for many reasons.

I think "West Eurasian" makes the most sense, since we use other geographical terms like "East Asian", instead of "Yellow"

Yet, as Angela said, they come from many different areas, so they simply use the terms as a way to identify with a group. Americans tend to be a combination of many different nationalities. Some don't even know what they are.

davef
03-06-19, 03:13
Exactly!

I heard this idea thrown around a few times: that there should be a separate racial category for middle eastern people in the US which makes no sense at all. The closest non European population to Europeans is definitely the Middle Easterners and they're real close.

Ailchu
03-06-19, 03:15
well i would question race completely. as you see there is a continuum from east eurasia to west eurasia so you can't really divide those too. there is probably also a cline from SSA's to westeurasians. so in the end taking nationality would be way more accurate instead of these large categories. or just not categorize at all. it's just going to be a matter of definition.

Jovialis
03-06-19, 03:20
Exactly!

I heard this idea thrown around a few times: that there should be a separate racial category for middle eastern people in the US which makes no sense at all. The closest non European population to Europeans is definitely the Middle Easterners and they're real close.

This is because much of it has to do with phenotype. Moreover, West Eurasians probably have the most phenotypic diversity, I would guess. But genetically it doesn't mean much, considering dark-skinned WHGs are "North" of anyone alive today.

Jovialis
03-06-19, 03:29
This is because much of it has to do with phenotype. Moreover, West Eurasians probably have the most phenotypic diversity, I would guess. But genetically it doesn't mean much, considering dark-skinned WHGs are "North" of anyone alive today.

Furthermore, from an anecdotal perspective, my trip to Portugal was also pretty illuminating. The Portuguese are genetically more "northern" than I, yet I would say I am fairer in skin-tone and hair color, than the majority of them. Perhaps because I have more Anatolian copper age admixture, who brought lighter features. I actually don't do so well in the Mediterranean environment. I burned pretty badly, and I have a heat rash. Moreover, I had to wear sunglasses at all times of the day, because the UV-rays made it impossible for me to see. My eyes were in a lot of pain. Though genetics is a roll of the dice, for example my brother is a bit darker than I. He could fit into Portugal perhaps. Low and behold, he is actually a tiny bit more "northern", than I.

Salento
03-06-19, 04:04
In the US, as long as Affirmative Action exists we need Racial/Ethnic classification to limit abuses.

(from one of my State IDs)

https://i.imgur.com/YASj1oR.jpg

fyi Wt is in Pounds, not in Kg :)

Angela
03-06-19, 04:27
well i would question race completely. as you see there is a continuum from east eurasia to west eurasia so you can't really divide those too. there is probably also a cline from SSA's to westeurasians. so in the end taking nationality would be way more accurate instead of these large categories. or just not categorize at all. it's just going to be a matter of definition.

Well, they're doing the study, so I guess they get to define the categories.

You can't use a nationality for "African Americans", because they are a mix of different ethnic groups from Africa. There's just no way to do it. They don't have a clue precisely which ones and neither do scientists. So, African-American would perhaps be the best choice, but although used for a long time, they now prefer to be called "black".

How precisely would you assign a nationality to a French, German, Irish, Italian, Polish American??? The U.S. is not like Europe.

As for Near Easterners it's a little murkier. I remember that when the pictures of the two Chechen brothers who did the bombing at the Boston Marathon were released, a lot of the police chatter was about two "white" males. So, for a lot of people, yes, they are white. Osama Bin Laden, who was mostly Yemeni, many people might say no, as they might say no about a lot of North Africans. Interestingly, when there was still segregation, Armenians went to court to be classified as "white", and were, and the same thing happened with the Christian Lebanese.

http://www.austinchronicle.com/binary/f0d9/RESIZED.20130717-boston-bomber-rolling-stone.jpg

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.129232.1313992060!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_750/alg-osama-bin-laden1-jpg.jpg

For the purposes of statistics like this, I suppose they could have a "European descent" and a "Near Eastern" descent, because they're trying to determine current rates of admixture between newer immigrants from different cultures with "older", European descent Americans.

davef
03-06-19, 05:57
In the US, as long as Affirmative Action exists we need Racial/Ethnic classification to limit abuses.

(from one of my State IDs)

https://i.imgur.com/YASj1oR.jpg

fyi Wt is in Pounds, not in Kg :)
Smart move of you to point out its in lbs!!

davef
03-06-19, 06:01
The grand majority of Jewish Americans are Ashkenazi and have both European and Middle Eastern ancestry so it would be hard to choose between filling in the European or the middle eastern box. Maybe we should have a west Eurasian category that covers Europe and the near east? It's a tough call

Jovialis
03-06-19, 11:39
North Africans and Middle Easterners are already considered "White" on the U.S. census. My point is that because some are not "White" looking, it should just be considered West Eurasian, since it would at least make sense (genetically even) for this broad designation, instead of "White". Otherwise more specific and clearer terms are needed for statistics.

Imo, "White" truly means English, or Germans from Saxony, if we are talking about the original term. Irish were the first the be referred to as the N-word ("Blacks" were once called, "smoked-Irish"), and south Germans were not "good enough" for Ben Franklin, to immigrate to the USA. They were not originally "White". But overtime it had to change, and it lost its original meaning. Which is really tied to the ability to vote and procure property.

Jovialis
03-06-19, 12:02
The Founding Fathers of the United States were very fond of and influenced by the Greeks. Only Greek males were able to have citizenship, and voting rights. Thus they applied the term "white", like the way the Greeks applied race to rights in the state. Ironically the Greeks would not fit into the version of their system that the founding fathers created, because they were southern European. And the Greeks would have thought it to be absolutely bizzare that strange barbarians from the british isles were copying them.

Salento
03-06-19, 12:57
Implementing abstract ideals in the real World is not an easy task.

... created equal..., but for Policy issues we’re defined by race.

@Davef we don’t want to give any "Food for Thought" by the Kilo :grin: :)

Duarte
03-06-19, 13:55
In the US, as long as Affirmative Action exists we need Racial/Ethnic classification to limit abuses.

(from one of my State IDs)

https://i.imgur.com/YASj1oR.jpg

fyi Wt is in Pounds, not in Kg :)

Hello Salento.
Now, with a pedigree attested by ”yourdnaportal”, I am fit to be considered white in the American census and to apply for a vacancy among white supremacists to participate of their rituals where they drink milk and say that those who can not do so should go away. LOL. This is just a joke my dear friend. I just want to say that this functionality already exists in the portal and if all your SNPs were intact (unfortunately the result of some characteristics is presented as "no call", because some SNP may be damaged in the file that you uploaded).
A big hug dear friend.

https://i.imgur.com/gIVPGeT.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/U7zcLSJ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/XRwzaly.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/d60uoAW.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/KBYtYxU.png
https://i.imgur.com/ZHpyEoH.jpg

Ailchu
03-06-19, 14:17
North Africans and Middle Easterners are already considered "White" on the U.S. census. My point is that because some are not "White" looking, it should just be considered West Eurasian, since it would at least make sense (genetically even) for this broad designation, instead of "White".



The grand majority of Jewish Americans are Ashkenazi and have both European and Middle Eastern ancestry so it would be hard to choose between filling in the European or the middle eastern box. Maybe we should have a west Eurasian category that covers Europe and the near east? It's a tough call

you will have the same problem with east and west eurasians. where are people from kazakhstan? or pakistan? it seems like they are not "white" anymore. and the authors don't know what they are so they just wrote "pakistani". but where are iranians? they are "white"?

and the authors just should't mix "race" with nationalities. is a pakistani-iranian relationship now a "pakistani"-"white" relationship?

Ailchu
03-06-19, 14:22
Implementing abstract ideals in the real World is not an easy task.

... created equal..., but for Policy issues we’re defined by race.

:

only in america or is there something similar in europe?

Jovialis
03-06-19, 14:59
you will have the same problem with east and west eurasians. where are people from kazakhstan? or pakistan? it seems like they are not "white" anymore. and the authors don't know what they are so they just wrote "pakistani". but where are iranians? they are "white"?
and the authors just should't mix "race" with nationalities. is a pakistani-iranian relationship now a "pakistani"-"white" relationship?

I think you are confused at what I am saying.

Salento
03-06-19, 15:37
@Ailchu @Duarte

This may seem strange to you, in the US racial and ethnic classifications are implemented to help the Minorities.

It allows to formulate a proportional quota based on diversity that Society can use to balance access to the Workforce, Banking, Education, ...

I don’t support Affirmative Action in the present form.

Tutkun Arnaut
03-06-19, 16:12
"Black" is how African Americans prefer to be called. You can't assign them a "nationality" because they've been here since the founding of the country, and you can't even assign them a country in Africa because their ancestors came from many countries in Africa.

Much the same logic applies to "whites".

Its not because they came from many countries, the reason they don't have nationalities! Its because when they came their countries had no names. The names of all African countries were given by English when borders were drawn. So let say Nigeria has about 200 ethnic groups, many of which still don't know that their country what is called, since somebody assigned to them that name

Angela
03-06-19, 16:29
As Salento pointed out, a lot of these categories are to "help" minorities like "Hispanics" and "blacks" take advantage of affirmative action programs. Also, no one is doing dna tests. You self-identify or "claim" certain ancestry. If you write "black" on a college admission form and you look vaguely African admixed when you arrive for your interview, you've got X number of points toward admission. In reality, you're in.

Heck, with American Indians it's even worse. Elizabeth Warren got a leg up with colleges and Executive Boards and professorships because she put "American Indian" on her forms. Turns out that when she got put on the spot by Trump and had to do a dna test, we found out she's probably about 5% "American Indian" and came from a normal middle class family. The colleges and universities don't care: they have a quota to meet, and the government pays the tuition so they're more than happy to go along. Likewise, employers have to meet a certain quota.

http://today.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/HLB-June10-10177.jpg

"Hispanics" is another minefield. They run the gamut from half Amerindian/half Spanish Mexicans, to Puerto Ricans who run the gamut from minority black and Amerindian to a lot black and Amerindian, to white Cubans with their tiny percentages, to mostly black Cubans and on and on. I don't know whether white Cubans take advantage of it. I don't know, for example, if employers, colleges etc. check family background for wealth, access to good schools etc.

It's just a mess. They should just get rid of affirmative action by "race" or "ethnic" background, and maybe look at "disadvantaged" backgrounds across the Board. I'd want to hire a person who got to college, got good grades, has made a life, who grew up in a dirt poor home in Appalachia going to crap schools.

There's a difference between real life political issues, looking at sociological trends, and genetics tests and analysis.

@Tutkun,

As always you miss the main thrust of the logic and focus on extraneous facts. Let's keep it too tribes if you prefer. When you're a product of five tribes, which one should be chosen? There's the same issue with "whites". Which nationality should an Irish/German/Italian/ put? We have a lot of them. Get it now? They can't really even put European, because as I said Lebanese are "white".

Studies which use these terms are investigating sociological trends. It has nothing to do with genetics, because most people are just self-identifying. To ask someone for a genetic test would be considered a gross invasion of privacy. Also, don't forget: if people don't want to volunteer the information they don't have to.

Jovialis
03-06-19, 21:32
As Salento pointed out, a lot of these categories are to "help" minorities like "Hispanics" and "blacks" take advantage of affirmative action programs. Also, no one is doing dna tests. You self-identify or "claim" certain ancestry. If you write "black" on a college admission form and you look vaguely African admixed when you arrive for your interview, you've got X number of points toward admission. In reality, you're in.
Heck, with American Indians it's even worse. Elizabeth Warren got a leg up with colleges and Executive Boards and professorships because she put "American Indian" on her forms. Turns out that when she got put on the spot by Trump and had to do a dna test, we found out she's probably about 5% "American Indian" and came from a normal middle class family. The colleges and universities don't care: they have a quota to meet, and the government pays the tuition so they're more than happy to go along. Likewise, employers have to meet a certain quota.
http://today.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/HLB-June10-10177.jpg
"Hispanics" is another minefield. They run the gamut from half Amerindian/half Spanish Mexicans, to Puerto Ricans who run the gamut from minority black and Amerindian to a lot black and Amerindian, to white Cubans with their tiny percentages, to mostly black Cubans and on and on. I don't know whether white Cubans take advantage of it. I don't know, for example, if employers, colleges etc. check family background for wealth, access to good schools etc.
It's just a mess. They should just get rid of affirmative action by "race" or "ethnic" background, and maybe look at "disadvantaged" backgrounds across the Board. I'd want to hire a person who got to college, got good grades, has made a life, who grew up in a dirt poor home in Appalachia going to crap schools.
There's a difference between real life political issues, looking at sociological trends, and genetics tests and analysis.
@Tutkun,
As always you miss the main thrust of the logic and focus on extraneous facts. Let's keep it too tribes if you prefer. When you're a product of five tribes, which one should be chosen? There's the same issue with "whites". Which nationality should an Irish/German/Italian/ put? We have a lot of them. Get it now? They can't really even put European, because as I said Lebanese are "white".
Studies which use these terms are investigating sociological trends. It has nothing to do with genetics, because most people are just self-identifying. To ask someone for a genetic test would be considered a gross invasion of privacy. Also, don't forget: if people don't want to volunteer the information they don't have to.

Maybe so, but genetic testing is new, and will no doubt transform the way we look at identity and sociology in the future, as more people are tested. After all, consumer genomics is most popular in the United States.

Ailchu
10-06-19, 19:52
Maybe so, but genetic testing is new, and will no doubt transform the way we look at identity and sociology in the future, as more people are tested. After all, consumer genomics is most popular in the United States.

maybe this will happen. but hopefully by the time this happens race or ethnicity will have no value anymore for identity or sociology. it shouldn't even matter now if you are black or white but obviously it does. quite a lot or it wouldn't be written in the ID. but at least those categories are flexible and change together with society.

Jovialis
10-06-19, 20:47
maybe this will happen. but hopefully by the time this happens race or ethnicity will have no value anymore for identity or sociology. it shouldn't even matter now if you are black or white but obviously it does. quite a lot or it wouldn't be written in the ID. but at least those categories are flexible and change together with society.

Reality suggests the very opposite is happening. There are non-trival differences between people that make this rejection of the concept of ethnicity baseless, and anti-scientific.

Jovialis
10-06-19, 20:56
Leftists are pathetic. They whine about global warming, but reject science that violates their baseless rethoric.

Boreas
10-06-19, 21:42
Leftists are pathetic. They whine about global warming, but reject science that violates their baseless rethoric.

You made a statement, please explain it. Which scientific research is more reliable then UN reports and deny climate change?
https://www.un.org/en/sections/issues-depth/climate-change/

Jovialis
10-06-19, 21:43
You made a statement, please explain it. Which scientific research is more reliable then UN reports and deny climate change?
https://www.un.org/en/sections/issues-depth/climate-change/

Not denying it. But I'm pointing out that leftists try to present themselves as pro-science, except when it conflicts with their agenda.

Boreas
11-06-19, 07:05
Not denying it. But I'm pointing out that leftists try to present themselves as pro-science, except when it conflicts with their agenda.

Everybody lies especially in politics but check again who is more liar, Leftist or Rightest
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/opinion/campaign-stops/all-politicians-lie-some-lie-more-than-others.html

Jovialis
11-06-19, 12:17
The NYTs is an obviously left-leaning news organization. I pass by the HQs everyday. They might as well have the bums that sleep outside of it, write for them.

Jovialis
11-06-19, 12:48
Keeping with the thread, here's some info:

"Tonight, 62,000 New Yorkers will sleep in homeless shelters, the most since the Great Depression"

https://www.coalitionforthehomeless.org/basic-facts-about-homelessness-new-york-city/

"How many people are homeless? Every night, more than 63,000 people sleep in the New York City municipal shelter system — up 43% from 10 years ago"

https://www.bowery.org/homelessness/

DeBlasio is probably the worst mayor NYC has had in recent history. NYC is a cesspool of poverty. He has ruined the advances made by Bloomberg and Giuliani.

These people are homeless because they have mental issues. They're doing drugs and harrassing people in public. They need to be put in refugee-style camps.

bigsnake49
11-06-19, 19:33
Keeping with the thread, here's some info:

"Tonight, 62,000 New Yorkers will sleep in homeless shelters, the most since the Great Depression"

https://www.coalitionforthehomeless.org/basic-facts-about-homelessness-new-york-city/

"How many people are homeless? Every night, more than 63,000 people sleep in the New York City municipal shelter system — up 43% from 10 years ago"

https://www.bowery.org/homelessness/

DeBlasio is probably the worst mayor NYC has had in recent history. NYC is a cesspool of poverty. He has ruined the advances made by Bloomberg and Giuliani.

These people are homeless because they have mental issues. They're doing drugs and harrassing people in public. They need to be put in refugee-style camps.

While the corruption in NYC is continuing unabated and maybe even has gotten worse, NYC is not a poor city. It has attracted a young, energetic, high salaried crowd and a lot of tech companies. Wall Street is going gangbusters. There are infrastructure projects all over the place. The place has a vigorous vibe to it. Maybe the old people and minorities are being squeezed out because the rents keep going up but that happens in every downtown/up town area that is getting gentrified.

As far as homeless are concerned, at some point we stopped warehousing mentally ill people. I think it happened under Reagan but don't quote me on it. Unless we as a society collectively change our mind about what to do about mentally ill people there will be homeless people everywhere, particularly in States with good weather. Now not all homeless are mentally ill. Some are just economically distressed because of job losses, medical bills, etc, etc.

On the other hand be glad you're not in Chicago or god forbid, Boston!:laughing:

bigsnake49
11-06-19, 19:44
On the subject of preferential treatment I think we should base it on economic disadvantage rather than race.

bigsnake49
11-06-19, 19:51
No of cigarettes per person per year worldwide.

I'm convinced the numbers are as low as that for Italy because fewer women smoke there than in other countries. Italian men smoke like chimneys.

https://imgur.com/780VMMc)
http://i66.tinypic.com/2v9aiv6.jpg
https://imgur.com/2m53MuE
https://imgur.com/a/kB6WLik

I was in Milan a few years ago. Right under a giant No Smoking sign and within a few meters from a carabinieri was a young Italian, furiously smoking.

Evading or defying the law has become a national sport in both Italy and Greece.

My pet peeve is graffiti. It has gotten out of hand in Greece. I know it existed even in Ancient Greece but it's just too much.

Jovialis
11-06-19, 20:16
While the corruption in NYC is continuing unabated and maybe even has gotten worse, NYC is not a poor city. It has attracted a young, energetic, high salaried crowd and a lot of tech companies. Wall Street is going gangbusters. There are infrastructure projects all over the place. The place has a vigorous vibe to it. Maybe the old people and minorities are being squeezed out because the rents keep going up but that happens in every downtown/up town area that is getting gentrified.

As far as homeless are concerned, at some point we stopped warehousing mentally ill people. I think it happened under Reagan but don't quote me on it. Unless we as a society collectively change our mind about what to do about mentally ill people there will be homeless people everywhere, particularly in States with good weather. Now not all homeless are mentally ill. Some are just economically distressed because of job losses, medical bills, etc, etc.

On the other hand be glad you're not in Chicago or god forbid, Boston!:laughing:

Yes, NYC is very opulent, and there's massive wealth being generated everyday. That's why it is called the "Capital of the World". I think gentrification is beneficial to the community as a whole. But ultimately, it will be the wealthiest that are the best off; that's only natural. Like I've said, hierarchical society, and divisions of class are natural and inevitable.

Yes, I also agree there's also people that are economically distressed for non-mental reasons. I don't think they should be put in with people that are mentally ill. They need to address their issues in a manner that is appropriate for their situation.

Angela
12-06-19, 02:07
I was in Milan a few years ago. Right under a giant No Smoking sign and within a few meters from a carabinieri was a young Italian, furiously smoking.

Evading or defying the law has become a national sport in both Italy and Greece.

My pet peeve is graffiti. It has gotten out of hand in Greece. I know it existed even in Ancient Greece but it's just too much.

I completely agree. It's the thing I hate most about Italy: graffiti.

I don't get it. Here, many of the homes are not what I consider clean inside, but those people wouldn't dream of scrawling graffiti or not picking up after their dog. There, it's the opposite. You could literally eat your meals off my family members' floors, but they do not pick up after their dog. They don't put graffiti on buildings either, thank God, but a lot of young people do.

I also hate smoking. It killed my father finally. He started at 12, he told me, and just couldn't stop. It got him in his seventies. He used to smoke a pack and a half to two packs a day of Lucky Strikes, Lord help us. I'm ashamed to say, though, that perhaps because I loved him so much and subconsciously associate the smell of pipe tobacco (which he took to in later life thinking it was better) with him, I find it attractive to smell it on a man.

Angela
24-06-19, 16:02
Carbon footprint intensity by electricity consumed:



See for complete map
https://www.electricitymap.org/?page=map&solar=false&remote=true&wind=false

25-06-19, 03:32
I was in Milan a few years ago. Right under a giant No Smoking sign and within a few meters from a carabinieri was a young Italian, furiously smoking.

Evading or defying the law has become a national sport in both Italy and Greece.

My pet peeve is graffiti. It has gotten out of hand in Greece. I know it existed even in Ancient Greece but it's just too much.

I was always too cheap to take up smoking (do you know what those things cost per pack?) . . . but it's graffiti that galls me. What is the urge to trash someone else's house, building or a public facility?

I had a professor back in my college days (way, way back in the 1970's) that told me that graffiti was art and a valid means of self-expression. I always wondered what he would have thought of some self-expression being applied to his own house?

I was vacationing in Italy about a decade ago and was depressed by the volume of graffiti (and by the number of seemingly unemployed young people in the cafes . . . perhaps these two observations are connected).

Jovialis
25-06-19, 19:13
I was always too cheap to take up smoking (do you know what those things cost per pack?) . . . but it's graffiti that galls me. What is the urge to trash someone else's house, building or a public facility?

I had a professor back in my college days (way, way back in the 1970's) that told me that graffiti was art and a valid means of self-expression. I always wondered what he would have thought of some self-expression being applied to his own house?

I was vacationing in Italy about a decade ago and was depressed by the volume of graffiti (and by the number of seemingly unemployed young people in the cafes . . . perhaps these two observations are connected).

I hated seeing graffiti on historic monuments, when I was in Portugal. Especially that Antifa garbage.

Jovialis
01-07-19, 20:13
https://i.imgur.com/1Rfy0ZL.jpg

https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2019/07/01/194952/

Perhaps in next 5 years we will see the major consumer genomics DNA testing companies move on the medical grade sequencing.

Ailchu
03-07-19, 22:39
Reality suggests the very opposite is happening. There are non-trival differences between people that make this rejection of the concept of ethnicity baseless, and anti-scientific.

i won't say this isn't possible but what are some of those non-trivial differences between races or ethnicities? and you said differences between people which is something different and way more important. if there are non-trivial differences between races it still has no value for the individual person and the specific genes that this person carries. these genetic differences do not have to be tied to raceconcepts and definitly not in the future where we might even be able to modify the genome.

those ethnicity concepts might be interessting for population genetics but not for a persons identitiy.

Angela
04-07-19, 20:59
As Martin Luther King Jr. said, every human being should be judged by the content of his or her own character. That's absolutely correct.

It's also correct, as Jovialis was implying, that the average scores of one group on a test for, say, addiction to alcohol and drugs, or, say, for Type 2 diabetes, as scientists are beginning to discover might be the case for South Asians, might be higher than those of some other group. That is extremely important to know from a health perspective. We NEED information like this for proper health care. Some groups benefit more from one drug than another. These are things we are finding out.

Now, that doesn't mean that every South Asian has a higher propensity toward Type 2 Diabetes than every person of European descent. That isn't how it works. People have to have some basic level of understanding of simple math, and what averages mean, and what a curve of results means, if not advanced statistics.

Now, let's say, simply for the the sake of argument, that someday the tests are accurate enough, as does indeed seem to be the case at least tentatively right now, to show that this applies to intelligence, mental illnesses, and on and on, as well as, say musical ability.

Are you suggesting that scientists shouldn't pursue that knowledge? First of all, how can we "fix" the human genome, if we can't study the different variations, the different snps involved. Or, are you saying we should deny science because we want every group in the world to have exactly the same innate advantages and disadvantages? So, ideology is supposed to trump science? We're going to go back to the Inquisition and Galileo being threatened if he didn't recant?

If that's the case, I fear for the world.

Let me also make another thing clear. In no way should anyone imply or should it even be contemplated that because on "average" some group should have more of a disadvantage than some other group, the disadvantaged group should lose their civil rights or be treated as second class citizens or made some sort of serfs, or anything else similar. Neither is it unimportant, however. I DO NOT want the neurosurgeon operating on my brain to have gotten into the university, into the hospital, because of his or her ethnic group. I want absolute meritocracy: color, religion, and sex blind when it comes to qualifications for taking certain courses, getting certain degrees or jobs.

Now, as things stand right now, we can't "fix" the genome on a broad level. We can target one gene and try to switch it off. They may be able to do it with hemophilia, which is great. We don't know all the genes responsible right now for tendency to Type II diabetes. It's one of those diseases where multiple genes are involved, so we can't fix it yet. However, a doctor should absolutely know when she has a patient of South Asian ancestry to double check sugar levels, be extra diligent about encouraging the maintenance of low weight and on and on. That's not racism or some other b.s. That's MEDICINE. I know a family of Near Eastern descent. Their poor daughter was ill for years and no doctors could figure out what was wrong with her until she went to the Hospital for Joint Disease, where an Arab doctor doing a fellowship there almost immediately diagnosed her with Mediterranean Familial Fever.

Now, intelligence is another trait affected by many genes. "Fixing" genes in any member of any group who struggles with cognitive processing is a long way off. Parents are asking doctors to screen embryos, if you can believe it, to only let the "smart" ones be implanted. Problem is, we don't know enough yet, and can test for only a few snps, and anyway, if neither of the parents is exactly high IQ material, there's not much they're going to be able to choose from? Why on earth do you think that when people go to sperm banks they always want sperm only from donors who are doctors or lawyers or accountants or engineers? What nobody wants to admit is a reality that everyone, or at least most people, acknowledge in private.

There's just a whole lot of hypocrisy going on.

The nurture versus nature argument is over and done with. Your genome is much, much more significant in determining who you are than how you were raised.

I used to be against genetic manipulation of embryos, but I've changed my mind. Yes, it seems gross to me, as if we're creating androids who will all be more or less alike, but the reality is that you can't be a successfully functioning person in the world technology is creating unless you have a certain intellect. The sooner they can ensure that children being born won't have deficits in that area, or propensity to terrible diseases, the better.

Ailchu
04-07-19, 22:20
i know that ethnicity can be interessting for population genetics, Angela. i also did not want to argue about the effects that certain genes have on certain traits and question if we should examine these effects. of course we should. but as you agree with me it has no value for a persons identity, since this identity is always determined by the genetics that this person has and not by the genetics the person could potentially have. so race should have no value only the specific traits you are looking at.

for the thing with the genetic manipulation i did not want to say that some genes are better than others but that a person's race will be an even worse indicator for a persons genome than it is now. the same effect you would have with sufficient ethnic mixing but this way you can change single genes and "tear" them out of their "context" in just one generation.



Now, as things stand right now, we can't "fix" the genome on a broad level. We can target one gene and try to switch it off.

this will certainly change in the future. it is already possible to fix defective genes and not just turn genes off.



We don't know all the genes responsible right now for tendency to Type II diabetes. It's one of those diseases where multiple genes are involved, so we can't fix it yet. However, a doctor should absolutely know when she has a patient of South Asian ancestry to double check sugar levels, be extra diligent about encouraging the maintenance of low weight and on and on. That's not racism or some other b.s. That's MEDICINE. I know a family of Near Eastern descent. Their poor daughter was ill for years and no doctors could figure out what was wrong with her until she went to the Hospital for Joint Disease, where an Arab doctor doing a fellowship there almost immediately diagnosed her with Mediterranean Familial Fever.

and how long into the future do you think this will have any meaning? at some point you would have to implement genetic screenings. wouldn't this be way better?



Or, are you saying we should deny science because we want every group in the world to have exactly the same innate advantages and disadvantages?

no. i think in the future we will not think in groups anymore anyway. at least not in those ethnic groups.

Regio X
04-07-19, 22:32
Interesting article about it:

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/610339/dna-tests-for-iq-are-coming-but-it-might-not-be-smart-to-take-one/

Jovialis
06-07-19, 14:51
@Alichu
There is absolutely nothing to suggest that people will stop thinking along ethnic or group lines. I find your observation to be baseless, considering the very opposite is happening. People naturally tribalize, even people within the same ethnicity, triblize in terms of religion, culture, etc. Your assumption seems rather ideological rather than something based on an honest assesment of reality. There is no way billions of people are going to all want to give up their identities, to be part of some amorphous, faceless mass.

You can't even accept scientists as a single-community, in regards to your conspiratorial stance towards peer-review. Everyone needs to think the same way in terms of their grouping, yet there must be anarchy in academics?! You have to be joking.

Angela
06-07-19, 15:00
@Alichu
There is absolutely nothing to suggest that people will stop thinking along ethnic or group lines. I find your observation to be baseless, considering the very opposite is happening. People naturally tribalize, even people within the same ethnicity, triblize in terms of religion, culture, etc. Your assumption seems rather ideological rather than something based on an honest assesment of reality. There is no way billions of people are going to all want to give up their identities, to be part of some amorphous, faceless mass.

You can't even accept scientists as a single-community, in regards to your conspiratorial stance towards peer-review.

Whether we like it or not, people will always divide themselves into groups. Isolation and subsequent genetic drift takes care of the rest.

You think the quarter of the world's population (or more), which is Han Chinese is going to stop being an ethnic group with its own particular characteristics? I very much doubt it.

Ailchu
06-07-19, 16:31
Whether we like it or not, people will always divide themselves into groups. Isolation and subsequent genetic drift takes care of the rest.

You think the quarter of the world's population (or more), which is Han Chinese is going to stop being an ethnic group with its own particular characteristics? I very much doubt it.

china is obviously in a very different situation. what do you think about the particular characteristics of swedes? or dutch? or french? or italians? or more extreme (define particular characteristics), swiss?
or "white" americans?

Ailchu
06-07-19, 17:09
@Alichu
There is absolutely nothing to suggest that people will stop thinking along ethnic or group lines. I find your observation to be baseless, considering the very opposite is happening. People naturally tribalize, even people within the same ethnicity, triblize in terms of religion, culture, etc. Your assumption seems rather ideological rather than something based on an honest assesment of reality. There is no way billions of people are going to all want to give up their identities, to be part of some amorphous, faceless mass.

You can't even accept scientists as a single-community, in regards to your conspiratorial stance towards peer-review. Everyone needs to think the same way in terms of their grouping, yet there must be anarchy in academics?! You have to be joking.

my argument was solely about ethnic groupings. that's why i wrote "at least not in those ethnic groups".
remember that article about the white marble statues of the antiquity. this article was based on a book called "the history of white people" in which the author concludes that the ethnic groups like for example white become more and more inclusive and in the end they will lose their meaning. and of course this doesn't have to happen in the whole world. but if it happens in america it happens and these groups start to change in america.
there was recently an article here in the newspaper about "white" people becoming a minority in america and how populists in europe already try to make fear among their sibjects. to prevent this the guy who was interviewed suggested to lower the number of migrants a bit so that the mixing happens a bit slower. after a while the racial categories would merge anyway because there won't be many unmixed individuals left and the gradients will have a finer structure. but this way the ethnic and racial categories have time to expand, become more colorfull and accomodate to society.

in the future of the west you might still have genetic groups but they will be different, more mixed and they might not be based on ethnicity at all. definitly possible. but other factors like religion and culture or real personal traits(partially genetics but not ethnicity) will be more important.

and unless you didn't mean ethnic groups i find your observation also a bit baseless since i can't observe your theory here in germany, switzerland and some other parts of europe. look at reality, the groups who want to identify with common ancestry are shrinking.
sure, right now an individual might still identify a bit with his/her ancestry. but there is already no urge anymore to form groups based on this in the majority of the population.

Angela
07-07-19, 00:04
china is obviously in a very different situation. what do you think about the particular characteristics of swedes? or dutch? or french? or italians? or more extreme (define particular characteristics), swiss?
or "white" americans?

I think the Dutch and Scandinavians are far closer to each other than either is to Italians. Italians are, of course, a bit heterogeneous, so let's talk about, say, Scandinavians versus Central (Lazio) to Southern Italians. I think they are very different in terms of lots of traits, both physical and psychological.

Let's start with the trivial: physical appearance. On "average", they look very different.

Then look at mental health characteristics. All ethnic groups have members who carry genes for every kind of mental illness, but the "prevalence" by ethnic group varies by specific type. Don't hold me to specifics, because I'm going by memory, but I think Scandinavians have a higher tendency to clinical depression. They also have higher statistics for suicide. Same for cancer of the colon and for alcoholism. The latter is at least true for the British Isles and the Netherlands, and perhaps Norway. Certainly it's true for Finland. I think with Italians it may be anxiety and bipolar disorders, and things like high blood pressure. In terms of violence, it's much less often suicide, but more often "crimes of passion". Which specific traits don't matter. Every group has good ones and bad ones. The point is that they differ.

Then there are what you might call social/psychological traits. Imo there is a large difference in terms of introversion/extroversion. I remember that years ago a Finn posted a picture on either this site or another one of Finns waiting for a bus. It made a HUGE impression on me. There were perhaps 5or 7 I remember it. Not ONE was talking to the others; in fact there was more than five feet between each of them. You would NEVER see that in Italy. People would start talking, complaining perhaps, perhaps even arguing, but at least engaging. Now I'm sure they like it that way and that's fine, but I could never live in a country like that.

I could go on and on, but you must know what I'm talking about.

Now, if Italians want to marry Scandinavians and vice versa and so the differences disappear, or, as here, all these Irish and Italian people intermarry and so the specific "ethnic" traits get diluted, I'm not going to tell them they shouldn't do it, but I didn't do it myself. It didn't feel "comfortable". I didn't feel as if I fit with their families or they with mine. Now, for Italian Americans it's different. It's different for my children, but as they get older even they seem to be gravitating toward possible "mates" who are at least partially Italian.

Whether we like it or not, marriages or partnerships or whatever you want to call them, between people of similar backgrounds are less stressful, and less often end in divorce. Now, those are averages, statistics, there are always individual cases where it makes no difference. One of my closest friends, an Irish guy from graduate school, married an Italian girl, and honestly, they have one of the most perfect relationships I've ever seen. We're talking about relative risks here. Of course, he joined HER world much more than she did his, partly perhaps because he was an only child, and son of only children.

Also, if you're implying that there might be a time in Europe where there would be no actual "Italians", or Spaniards, or Germans or Irish, i.e. just an intermarried mass, it might be inevitable, but no, Ipersonally wouldn't want that. To be clear, it's nothing to do with superiority or inferiority. I love my people, our history, our accomplishments, and I even find some of our many faults acceptable or even in some cases endearing. So, no, I don't want them to disappear.

Even in countries like the U.S., there is less intermarriage than Europeans sometimes imagine, at least across "racial" lines. I've posted recent data on other threads showing that 90% of "white" Americans marry white Americans. It's just the way it is, and I think it will stay that way for a long time, regardless of what "Hollywood" would prefer.

I see it happening in my own community, which is white and Christian, and has been for decades. In recent years a lot of Chinese people are moving in, and while no one is broadcasting it, people are moving further out on the island. It's not that they're not considered highly intelligent, hardworking, law abiding, all those things, but the "culture" is very different. It happened in parts of Queens, a borough of New York City. Whole areas like Flushing used to be Jewish, Italian, Irish. It is now completely, and I mean completely East Asian. I don't think a young European descent family would feel comfortable buying a house there nowadays. These old established communities are very sports oriented, church oriented, civic association oriented, summer life revolving around tennis and swimming and golf at country clubs or local community pool and tennis clubs. The School Association is very important, with parents being very involved in being class mothers, all that stuff. That's just not part of the culture of a lot of these very nice East Asian people, so there are some stresses.

davef
07-07-19, 06:03
Wow, I would love to move in to a predominately East Asian community (and I'm not flexing my PC muscles saying this, I really mean it). Nothing against those who would feel uncomfortable, I'm not the typical PC guy who would label them as "racist". Im just someone who would never feel home sick.

Angela
07-07-19, 16:54
Wow, I would love to move in to a predominately East Asian community (and I'm not flexing my PC muscles saying this, I really mean it). Nothing against those who would feel uncomfortable, I'm not the typical PC guy who would label them as "racist". Im just someone who would never feel home sick.

Well, when you found out that many of the people don't speak English and you can't even read the signs on the stores or find the normal products you use, or, if you're religious, find a church, or if you're athletic find a neighborhood baseball team or any other kind of team to join, or if you like belonging to neighborhood civic associations or book clubs and on and on, you might feel differently. If you had children it would be even more difficult because they'd be the only children like them in their classrooms.

Angela
07-07-19, 17:50
@Ailchu,
I edited my response to you so much that I am re-posting it here. I also added some data.

I think the Dutch and Scandinavians are far closer to each other than either is to Italians. Italians are, of course, a bit heterogeneous, so let's talk about, say, Scandinavians versus Central (Lazio) to Southern Italians. I think they are very different in terms of lots of traits, both physical and psychological.

Let's start with the trivial: physical appearance. On "average", they look very different.

Then look at mental and physical health characteristics. All ethnic groups have members who carry genes for every kind of mental and physical illness, but the "prevalence" by ethnic group varies by specific type. Don't hold me to specifics, because I'm going by memory, but I think Scandinavians have a higher tendency to clinical depression. They also have higher statistics for suicide. Same for cancer of the colon and for alcoholism. The latter is at least true for the British Isles and the Netherlands, and perhaps Norway. Certainly it's true for Finland. I think with Italians it may be anxiety and bipolar disorders, and things like high blood pressure. In terms of violence, it's much less often suicide, but more often "crimes of passion". Which specific traits don't matter. Every group has good ones and bad ones. The point is that they differ.

Then there are what you might call social/psychological traits. Imo there is a large difference in terms of introversion/extroversion. I remember that years ago a Finn posted a picture on either this site or another one of Finns waiting for a bus. It made a HUGE impression on me. There were perhaps 5 or 7 people as I remember it. Not ONE was talking to the others; in fact there was more than five feet between each of them. You would NEVER see that in Italy. People would start talking, complaining perhaps about the bus or the weather or talking about the news, perhaps even arguing, but at least engaging. Now, I'm sure the Finns and other Scandinavians like it that way and that's fine, but I could never live in a country like that.

I could go on and on, but you must know what I'm talking about.

Now, if Italians want to marry Scandinavians and vice versa and so the differences disappear, or, as here, all these Irish and Italian people intermarry and so the specific "ethnic" traits get diluted, I'm not going to tell them they shouldn't do it, but I didn't do it myself. It didn't feel "comfortable". I didn't feel as if I fit with their families or they with mine. Now, for Italian Americans it's different. It's different for my children, but as they get older even they seem to be gravitating toward possible "mates" who are at least partially Italian. It becomes clear as they interact with the partner's family and how the partner lives and inter-reacts with others that the differences are large.

Whether we like it or not marriages or partnerships, or whatever you want to call them, between people of similar backgrounds are less stressful, and less often end in divorce. Now, those are averages, statistics, there are always individual cases where it makes no difference. One of my closest friends, an Irish guy from graduate school, married an Italian girl, and honestly, they have one of the most perfect relationships I've ever seen. We're talking about relative risks here. Of course, he joined HER world much more than she did his, partly perhaps because he was an only child, and son of only children. I have to say this if I'm going to be honest. Anecdotally, when the wife is Italian and the husband is something else, especially, say, Jewish, the marriages seem to have fewer problems than when the husband is Italian and the wife is, say, Irish or German. The Italian husband, Jewish wife also seems to work better. Greek/Italian marriages also seem to really work out, but the Greeks are much less likely to "marry out" than Italians. That may partly be a religious thing. Both Italians and the Irish and a lot of the Germans are Roman Catholics, and that used to really matter, and still matters to some extent today, while Greeks are Orthodox. Like Jews, if they do intermarry they usually demand conversion of the non Orthodox partner. That would have been fine with me even years ago when I was a religious girl. I like Greeks, get on with them, understand their families, and even back then, I was taught in theology class that the differences between Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy were more political and technical than spiritual, and if, for example, I were in some place in the Midwest where there was no R.C. church, to go to an Orthodox Greek one for Sunday services.

Also, if you're implying that there might be a time in Europe where there would be no actual "Italians", or Spaniards, or Germans or Irish, i.e. just an intermarried mass, it might be inevitable, but no, I personally wouldn't want that. To be clear, it's nothing to do with superiority or inferiority. I love my people, our history, our accomplishments, and I even find some of our many faults acceptable or even in some cases endearing. So, no, I don't want them to disappear.

Even in countries like the U.S., there is less intermarriage than Europeans sometimes imagine, at least across "racial" lines. I've posted recent data on other threads showing that 90% of "white" Americans marry white Americans. It's just the way it is, and I think it will stay that way for a long time, regardless of what "Hollywood" would prefer. There are also still Irish or mostly Irish descent people who would prefer their children marry people of Irish descent. It's just the way it is.

I see it happening in my own community, which is white and Christian, and has been for decades. In recent years a lot of Chinese people are moving in, and while no one is broadcasting it, people are moving further out on the island. It's not that they're not considered highly intelligent, hardworking, law abiding, all those things, but the "culture" is very different. It happened in parts of Queens, a borough of New York City. Whole areas like Flushing used to be Jewish, Italian, Irish. It is now completely, and I mean completely East Asian. I don't think a young European descent family would feel comfortable buying a house there nowadays. These old established communities are very sports oriented, church oriented, civic association oriented, summer life revolving around tennis and swimming and golf at country clubs or local community pool and tennis clubs. The School Association is very important, with parents being very involved in being class mothers, all that stuff. That's just not part of the culture of a lot of these very nice East Asian people, so there are some stresses.

I have some personal experience of the Italian/Swiss German marital mix. My first cousin married a Swiss German. He's a very nice guy, and she seems happy enough, but to my eyes she has totally changed her "personality" or traits, as much as one can do fighting genetics, and the way they "live", if you know what I mean, is completely Swiss German. I would NEVER, EVER, have done that. Of course, I may be biased here, to be honest, because Switzerland was the only place in my whole life where I was ever treated badly, indeed harassed, because I'm Italian. I was a teenager, and yet I've never been back. If my cousin wants to see me she can come to Italy when I'm there every year. I hold REALLY, REALLY intense grudges, and never forget insults.

Some data. I got some of it wrong. Bi-polar and schizophrenia rates seem to be the same for every country. The major differences are in alcohol/drug disorders, depression, and anxiety. I knew Italy would be lower in the alcohol and drug disorders, but I thought it might be higher in the anxiety disorders, instead a country like the Netherlands has more of it. Go figure. I absolutely don't get the low anxiety in some eastern countries. Maybe they consider it normal and don't get treated for it.

http://oecdobserver.org/files/316/Health_in_Europe_large.JPG

Ailchu
24-07-19, 21:11
Also, if you're implying that there might be a time in Europe where there would be no actual "Italians", or Spaniards, or Germans or Irish, i.e. just an intermarried mass, it might be inevitable, but no, I personally wouldn't want that. To be clear, it's nothing to do with superiority or inferiority. I love my people, our history, our accomplishments, and I even find some of our many faults acceptable or even in some cases endearing. So, no, I don't want them to disappear.





the question shouldn't be if you want this or not. it will happen eventually and there are propably not many people who really want this but most just don't care. so the question should rather be if you mind that it happens.


Even in countries like the U.S., there is less intermarriage than Europeans sometimes imagine, at least across "racial" lines. I've posted recent data on other threads showing that 90% of "white" Americans marry white Americans. It's just the way it is, and I think it will stay that way for a long time, regardless of what "Hollywood" would prefer.

still, 10% marry outside their race which is quite much and enough so that it propably doesn't stay like this for that long. also the "white" category for example already became more inclusive in the past and it will certainly become more inclusive in the future.


In recent years a lot of Chinese people are moving in, and while no one is broadcasting it, people are moving further out on the island. It's not that they're not considered highly intelligent, hardworking, law abiding, all those things, but the "culture" is very different. It happened in parts of Queens, a borough of New York City. Whole areas like Flushing used to be Jewish, Italian, Irish. It is now completely, and I mean completely East Asian.

this might be caused by placing too many migrants in the same place without giving the process of assimilation enough time. it would be different if the migrants were distributed better so they can't create bubbles with their own culture. here i think america and europe have a different mindset.
also when i google Flushing NYC it doesn't seem to be that extreme. only 65% of the inhabitants are of east asian origin according to wiki.


I have some personal experience of the Italian/Swiss German marital mix. My first cousin married a Swiss German. He's a very nice guy, and she seems happy enough, but to my eyes she has totally changed her "personality" or traits, as much as one can do fighting genetics, and the way they "live", if you know what I mean, is completely Swiss German. I would NEVER, EVER, have done that. Of course, I may be biased here, to be honest, because Switzerland was the only place in my whole life where I was ever treated badly, indeed harassed, because I'm Italian. I was a teenager, and yet I've never been back. If my cousin wants to see me she can come to Italy when I'm there every year. I hold REALLY, REALLY intense grudges, and never forget insults.

you have to understand switzerland took in a lot of italians in the past. especially after 1945. in 1963 there was even an "anti-italians" political party. i guess you were in switzerland around this time? in the end these migrants really had a significant impact on the swiss culture. as an italian you will probably not face racism in switzerland anymore. or only very very rarely. it's almost impossible since today really many people in switzerland have italian roots and italians have become a part of the swiss society.

also why hate switzerland because of your personal "anti-italian" experience in the past? america also had its "anti-italianism". or france. or why not hate for example italy where racism is more and more accepted? for football fans who make monkey sounds against black football players? or black italians are refused at hospitals because they are not veterinary offices? or when black politicians are compared to orang utans by other politicians and are target of flying bananas? or for having a deputy prime minister who defends all of this?
and note that the relative immigrant population in italy is rather small compared to those in other european countries and SSA africans make up only 0.74% of the italian population.

the fact that it was a personal experience of racism shouldn't matter if we look at it rationally. but i understand it's something different if you experience something bad against you personally. that's how we humans work. so you probably are indeed biased here.

Angela
25-07-19, 03:32
@Ailchu,
Yes, I would mind if Italians disappear as a specific ethnicity. It goes without saying there's nothing I can or would want to do to prevent it. What will happen will happen. Obviously, people make the choices which feel comfortable for them personally. I would never dream of telling anyone whom to marry. I don't even tell my own children that. So long as they love the person and that person loves them back and treats them well, then so be it. If they're happy, I'm happy.

Yes, 10% intermarriage is a substantial number, but a good chunk of that is with Hispanics who might have some admixture, but who are, to American eyes, "white". Marco Rubio is a Hispanic, for example. Intermarriage with black Americans is much less common. I'm just reporting on the reality of the situation. It's unfortunate that such bias still exists, but it serves no purpose to lie about it.

You're right: it's not optimal for a country to have "ethnic" enclaves. However, the American government has no power or ethical right to tell migrants where to buy a home. If they're looking for neighborhoods with good school systems, safety on the streets, substantial and nice homes, and they can meet the asking price, then they have the right to buy there, and it would be racist not to sell to them. Once a few people with money to invest, some directly from Hong Kong or Southeast Asia, move to an area and like it, then family, friends, former neighbors, feel more comfortable moving in. Then small businesses open up to cater to them. That's how it happens. There's nothing wrong with any of that, but it can drastically change the character of a neighborhood.

I don't care what Wiki says. I'm in Queens all the time, some of my Jewish friends still have parents in a few small enclaves in Flushing, and I'm telling you that you can walk blocks and blocks and blocks in Flushing and never hear English spoken or see store signs in English. Like I said, more power to them for their entrepreneurial mind set, but not every American would feel comfortable living there now.

This has always been the way it worked in the urban landscape of America. English and Dutch areas of New York became Irish, then Italian, maybe some mixed Irish and Italian neighborhoods, and the Jewish neighborhoods were usually separated, partly because if they were Orthodox they had to live within walking distance from a synagogue, partly because, like the other migrants, they felt more comfortable with people similar to them and stores catering to them, and partly, frankly, because communities like mine had what were called "restrictive covenants" prohibiting the sale of a house to Jews and blacks. They've long been declared unconstitutional, but it's still in the deeds. Then certain areas of inner New York became Hispanic with all the migration from Puerto Rico, or black from migrants from the south, and now East Asian and Indian. It's just the way it has worked out. Now it has spilled into certain suburban neighborhoods on the island that are still relatively close to the city for commuting. Like I said, if people can meet the asking price, they can live wherever they want, and that's the way it should be.

I'm not that old. :) I wasn't in Switzerland until quite a bit later, although I heard it was much worse in the 60s. Look Ailchu, I was a young girl, but I knew enough to know the reputation of the ugly "American" tourist, so I chose, out of politeness, not to ask for help in English, but in Italian, which I thought and in fact "is" a "national" language in Switzerland. I was quite "developed" for my age, so that pig of a man made a sexual remark about me, and insulted Italians in horrible language as well, just because of that. I've never forgotten it. I still could find that goddam post office in Basel today if I had to. I never, ever, was treated like that because of my ethnicity anywhere else in the world, certainly not in the U.S. My family and I were met with open arms. I told my aunt and her family they were crazy to remain there, and in fact I heard many Italians did leave. I would starve in my home country before I would put up with that crap. I know there are some racist Americans, but if one of them said something like that to a young Hispanic girl, people would rush to her defense. No one said a word. So, once I started working and making money, I chose not to spend any of it there. That's my right, and I don't have to answer to you or anyone else for it.

When I was growing up here many of the parents of my Jewish friends wouldn't buy German products. I totally understood. Some of the people running those companies in the 70s and 80s had been working there in the 40s.

Every village in my area has a memorial to people tortured and executed during the German occupation. Germany has always refused to let Italy extradite them for trial, so they died comfortably of old age, SS men who butchered old men and women and babies. My mother had an older cousin burned alive in a church with her priest. Another one, a young man, died in a concentration camp for union activity in La Spezia. So, yeah, I take it personally and seriously; I hold a grudge; I have a long memory for injury. I don't blame young Germans for that, but as I said, I understood the reasoning of my friends' parents, and had I been in a position to buy German products when the older generation was still running things, I wouldn't have bought them either. That's my right. If you think that's weird, go ahead; that's your right.

I don't know if it really comes across, but I have some "Libertarian" leanings politically: I don't want anyone telling me what I can or cannot do unless I'm creating a major disturbance of public order, and that applies most of all to the government.

italouruguayan
26-07-19, 00:47
Frequency maps of surnames in the Italian regions. What do the Italian forum members think?11237

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Salento
26-07-19, 01:17
Frequency maps of surnames in the Italian regions. What do the Italian forum members think?11237

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Many are the most popular Surnames, and they match the Territory. imo

italouruguayan
26-07-19, 02:07
The number of " Uruguayan surnames" in Liguria surprises me: Calcagno, Bruzzone, Zunino, Canepa, Parodi, Traverso, Repetto, Poggi....11238

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